So is Tommy in or out (your opinions)?

[HBK]

From When Tommy Is Out Of GNR ?

[GNR4LIFEJD]

I am wondering If Axl is battling with the feeling like no matter who plays in GNR that unless their name is Slash, Duff, Izzy or Steven that they will never get the credit they deserve no matter how great whatever material exists that has been made by the likes of buckethead, robin, tommy,Dj, Ron or whoever and anyone who has played with him has always talked highly of him and how he is as a person and if these guys aren't going to get over with the gnr fanbase and I understand a lot of the people on this board have enjoyed the band that's been out their recently but there is probably a large GNR fan base out their that just wants the old guys back playing music like they used to.

[sky dog]

quite a run on sentence there... 

I get your point though.

[EmilyGNR]

Axl may not let getting back in the spotlight dominate his motivations, but I wouldn't totally discount them either.

I just want to make sure we don't get too entranced by how he's the artiest artist that was ever artful, and be so wrapped up in keeping that street cred going, that we could totally dismiss what is a natural human feeling.

Fortus-
?Music is all that matters to him. I?ve never met anyone with as much musical and artistic integrity as Axl Rose.?

Fortus adds, ?People talk about not doing stuff for money, but he really will not do something strictly for money.

He?s all about the music. It?s gotta be about the music. That?s why he doesn?t do interviews, because it?s not about the music.

And to him, that?s the only thing that matters. I think that?s incredibly admirable. Axl encompasses in a lot of ways what?s missing from rock ?n? roll now ? his mystique and he?s an enigma.?

Read More: Richard Fortus on Axl Rose: 'He's All About the Music' | http://loudwire.com/guns-n-roses-richard-fortus-axl-rose-all-about-music/?trackback=tsmclip

[jarmo]

Seriously? How would Richard know better than the people of the Internet? Impossible!

 


/jarmo

[pilferk]

Axl may not let getting back in the spotlight dominate his motivations, but I wouldn't totally discount them either.

I just want to make sure we don't get too entranced by how he's the artiest artist that was ever artful, and be so wrapped up in keeping that street cred going, that we could totally dismiss what is a natural human feeling.

Again, I question whether the pursuit of fame, just for the sake of fame, is a "natural human feeling". It is for SOME PEOPLE.

I think he is far more concerned with producing material he's happy with, and doing what makes him happy.

SOME of that is about artistic integrity.  At LEAST as much, I think, is about preserving his sanity/mental health/well being.

Look, the guy seems to have made enough money to be comfortable...that doesn't seem to be his primary motivating factor based on what we've seen of his decisions..  He's eaten, and been eaten, by the fame monster...and given the decisions we've seen, that doesn't seem to be it, either.

What we HAVE seen is a bent toward perfectionism (and that might be the understatement of the year), a complete intolerance for what HE sees as bullshit (be that record label politics, media reporting, managerial crap, or what have you), and an unwillingness to compromise what he sees as his principals (agree with them or not), both artistic and personal, to "get back on top".

Fair?

So...I don't think it's people trying to further his "street cred" as the artsiest artist, ever.  I think it's just looking at what he's done, the decisions he's made, the band members he's added, and coming to the conclusion that there is no earthly way that money and fame are what's driving him. Or, if they are, he's the most self destructive mother fucker on the planet.  Given his stage presence, and the few media comments/interactions we've seen...he seems pretty happy, so that last bit seems unlikely.

And..Emily does bring up a good point:  The music industry has radically changed since 1992.  On all fronts.  I don't think, even if that was Axl's goal, that it would be possible for GnR to attain those heights, again.  Albums don't sell, and the pop princesses, for the moment, rule the roost.  I'd love to say that someday that might change, but....I see no indications that it is. In fact, if anything, "real" rock (and we've had that discussion before about what is real, and what is considered "rock" by the charts is very different, to me) slips further onto life support.

[pilferk]

Axl may not let getting back in the spotlight dominate his motivations, but I wouldn't totally discount them either.

I just want to make sure we don't get too entranced by how he's the artiest artist that was ever artful, and be so wrapped up in keeping that street cred going, that we could totally dismiss what is a natural human feeling.

Fortus-
?Music is all that matters to him. I?ve never met anyone with as much musical and artistic integrity as Axl Rose.?

Fortus adds, ?People talk about not doing stuff for money, but he really will not do something strictly for money.

He?s all about the music. It?s gotta be about the music. That?s why he doesn?t do interviews, because it?s not about the music.

And to him, that?s the only thing that matters. I think that?s incredibly admirable. Axl encompasses in a lot of ways what?s missing from rock ?n? roll now ? his mystique and he?s an enigma.?

Read More: Richard Fortus on Axl Rose: 'He's All About the Music' | http://loudwire.com/guns-n-roses-richard-fortus-axl-rose-all-about-music/?trackback=tsmclip

Good find!  And this perfectly jives with what we've seen of his decision making process, too.

Much more than a supposition that Axl is trying to climb the fame mountain, like it's his personal everest, and is just so inept at it that, not only is he failing to climb, but he occasionally takes toboggan rides, of his own making, back DOWN the slope.

If fame were his driving factor...he'd be mugging for every camera, talking to every reporter about...ok, IDK, some other band's prospects for a reunion and such, and making sure the band was in front of the public as often, and in as high a profile way, as possible. 

He specifically does NOT do things like that.

Does he want to be successful and appreciated? YES!

But that's a far cry from measuring that success by whether GnR is "the biggest band on the planet" again.  I just don't think he does that.

[D-GenerationX]

I was speaking more from a respect standpoint.

I don't think it inconceivable that, after awhile, it starts to wear on you when so many folks label what you have been doing a travesty.

[pilferk]

I was speaking more from a respect standpoint.

I don't think it inconceivable that, after awhile, it starts to wear on you when so many folks label what you have been doing a travesty.

Yeah, I don't think he cares about those opinions.  I think he pretty much discounts anyone who thinks/says that as someone who's opinion he doesn't value, because their head space and his are so wildly divergent in terms of what they/he thinks GnR should be.

As long as he's doing his thing, and he's happy...."fuck the haters" (in his opinion) is probably his morning meditation mantra.

[Princess Leia]

I was speaking more from a respect standpoint.

I don't think it inconceivable that, after awhile, it starts to wear on you when so many folks label what you have been doing a travesty.

 You know. I find it real funny when people say Axl is all about music. What music? 14 songs in 20 years? That?s not a great deal of music. He doesn?t care about money? When was any show for free? If Axl gets on stage he gets paid to be there. No problem with that. That is his job and he should get paid. But it is silly to deny there is money involved.

Travesty? yeah pretty much, calling GN?R something that in many people?s hearts never was. All there was in reality it?s just Axl and a bunch of guys performing mostly AFD and UYI songs. Some shows were really good, no doubt and yet close but not cigar.

[LongGoneDay]

So music is all that matters to Axl, and he has more musical and artistic integrity than anyone Richard has ever met, and that translates to one album in 24 years..

The only thing that GN?R seems to do these days is tour, which also happens to be the only way bands make money today.
So, yea, I?m sure Axl isn?t lacking in the artistic integrity department, but he clearly likes his money, too.
Like just about every other human being on the planet.
He?s not playing all these concerts for free, and he?s not playing all these songs solely for our personal enjoyment.

[jarmo]

You answered your own question.
He puts out his music when he's ready to. Not when others think he should.

Tours also cost time and money.
Nice try.


The usual suspects who have a hard time giving Axl any credit are once again questioning him....
Is it that difficult to give him some credit?




/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

You answered your own question.
He puts out his music when he's ready to. Not when others think he should.

Tours also cost time and money.
Nice try.


The usual suspects who have a hard time giving Axl any credit are once again questioning him....
Is it that difficult to give him some credit?




/jarmo

If the music comes out when he is ready. Then he is not about music. He is about himself, it?s all about when he feels like it

[jarmo]

If the music comes out when he is ready. Then he is not about music. He is about himself, it?s all about when he feels like it

But it's his music. His art.

If you think your work isn't done, it's not about you. It's about you thinking the work isn't done. 




/jarmo

[pilferk]

If the music comes out when he is ready. Then he is not about music. He is about himself, it?s all about when he feels like it

So, to be clear:

If you're working on something at work, and it doesn't meet your standards of quality, and you keep working on it til you feel that it's actually reflective of your ability...that's 100% selfish?

See, I call that taking pride in your work.  I don't think that's selfish, especially when you're trying to put out the best quality product for the person consuming/using it as you can.

I get it: His timetables are ridiculously stretched out.  And his idea of "ready" seems to be idealized to a point where you and I would consider that ridiculous,, too.

But..that's rather the point in all this.  He's not going to release something just to release it....just to make other people happy, or whatever.

[D-GenerationX]

But..that's rather the point in all this.  He's not going to release something just to release it....just to make other people happy, or whatever.

He's also said that they didn't record all this stuff to keep it locked away and have no one ever hear it.

Did he not?

[jarmo]

He's also said that they didn't record all this stuff to keep it locked away and have no one ever hear it.

Did he not?

What's your point?



/jarmo

[pilferk]

So music is all that matters to Axl, and he has more musical and artistic integrity than anyone Richard has ever met, and that translates to one album in 24 years..

The only thing that GN?R seems to do these days is tour, which also happens to be the only way bands make money today.
So, yea, I?m sure Axl isn?t lacking in the artistic integrity department, but he clearly likes his money, too.
Like just about every other human being on the planet.
He?s not playing all these concerts for free, and he?s not playing all these songs solely for our personal enjoyment.

Keep in mind: Releasing and creating are two very different things.

He's RELEASED 24 tracks.  That's an indication of commercial productivity...not artistic productivity.

My wife was a pro photog before we had kids.  She'd take HUNDREDS of photos before she'd get one she liked.  Of the couple dozen she had that she liked, she might actually try to sell one or two.  

Painters will paint hundreds of canvases...and maybe try to sell a dozen of them.

If the ART is your focus...and not just being commercially prolific...yeah, I'd expect the volume of material to be less. Quality vs quantity.

You can argue that Axl's standards are almost impossibly high.....I think we're all there...but trying to say he does it all for $$ or fame?  Sorry, events just don't support that.

As for the tours: I honestly think those were about getting the OTHER band members paid, so they could continue to work together.  And maybe get the musical portions to "blend" for recording/creative purposes.

[D-GenerationX]

He's also said that they didn't record all this stuff to keep it locked away and have no one ever hear it.

Did he not?

What's your point?

That he says a lot of things. 

[pilferk]

He's also said that they didn't record all this stuff to keep it locked away and have no one ever hear it.

Did he not?

Meaning that statement is to demonstrate his intent was purely commercial?

Nope.

He's an artist. Lots of artists intend to share their art with the world, for a variety of reasons (because it's cathartic, because it makes them happy to do that, and, yes, sometimes to pay the bills).

His intent is to share it. When he thinks it's ready, and worthy to be shared.

And I don't think I've ever said Axl doesn't want to pay the bills.  I've said that the $$ and fame are not his primary motivations.