Is Friday the day?

[jarmo]

That's what I've been trying to say for a day now. Yet it hasn't made any sense to them, yet.

All in the delivery, perhaps.

Possible.

I don't think my English is that hard to understand though.

I admit that I'm no good at sugarcoating everything I say, especially when people are arguing about silly things.



/jarmo

[pilferk]

In your opinion, was there even a 1% chance Axl's answer to that ultimatum ever going to be, "Well...guess you're out of here, then.  See ya, saw ya."

I can't read his mind.  And I know you're not going to like that answer.  I will say that, no, I don't think Axl would callously dismiss her that quickly, all things considered.  But then, I don't think anyone that truly cared about the person on the other end of that type of ultimatum would.  

In my situation, which was somewhat similar in some respects.....I pretty much went in knowing what their decision would be.  And I was right. And I walked away. And, in the end, it was the right decision for me (and not so much for them, which was incredibly sad).

It was definitely an ultimatum.

I'm just not sure it was given with the intent to get the specific outcome that came about.  I think Beta would have been equally OK with there being NO official manager, or Axl taking on the title, while her and Fernando continued to do the same work they had been doing.

And I think with that in mind....I have a hard time calling it "blackmail".  

Did the connection Axl has to Beta influence Axl's decision? Probably..but then, we don't really know if Axl was sorta, kinda, leaning in the direction of abandoning the "big name" manager route and Beta just tipped the scales enough for him to follow through.  I think here, though, it's about intent.

Do you think Beta levied the ultimatum specifically so Axl would make her the bands manager? I think unless the answer is Yes (and for me its not) then it's not emotional blackmail.  That's my litmus test. YMMV.

[D-GenerationX]

I don't think my English is that hard to understand though.

Nor I.

But pilferk's answer wasn't peppered with a lot of editorial commenting on "how you people are" either.

Perhaps that has a higher success rate.  Certainly worth considering.

[D-GenerationX]

Do you think Beta levied the ultimatum specifically so Axl would make her the bands manager? I think unless the answer is Yes (and for me its not) then it's not emotional blackmail.  That's my litmus test. YMMV.

No, I think that's an unfounded leap.

What I don't think is even in question is the end result she wanted.  She knew putting things in those terms, he was never going to hire another manager.  There was not even a 1% he was going to say that he needed another manager, and if that meant she's out of his life, then so be it.

That's why its emotional blackmail.  She was trading on their personal, emotional relationship to get a result she wanted.

Strategically wise, but ethically sketchy.

[jarmo]

But pilferk's answer wasn't peppered with a lot of editorial commenting on "how you people are" either.

Perhaps that has a higher success rate.  Certainly worth considering.

Maybe not, like I said, I'm no good at sugarcoating everything.
If somebody appears to be making shit up for the sake of disliking somebody, I'll say that's how it looks.

And to me, this whole discussion looks like the ones who don't like management happen to be the same people who swear that Duff was lied to and they tried to block him from meeting Axl.
Coincidence?

Like I said, you read the book, and you come to that conclusion for some reason. That's the reason I can think of. There might be more, but nobody's interested in telling those. Oh yeah, the comparison to Slash showing up at the house in the middle of the night. Funny how Izzy playing with GN'R isn't used as proof of the opposite then? Or even Steven showing up in Las Vegas in 2006...


Edit: Also, the fact that Axl spoke about the possibility of having Duff on stage with GN'R somewhere down the line in an interview in 2009 kinda goes against the whole idea that Duff isn't welcome at all.



/jarmo

[pilferk]

No, I think that's an unfounded leap.

What I don't think is even in question is the end result she wanted.  She knew putting things in those terms, he was never going to hire another manager.  There was not even a 1% he was going to say that he needed another manager, and if that meant she's out of his life, then so be it.

That's why its emotional blackmail.  She was trading on their personal, emotional relationship to get a result she wanted.

Strategically wise, but ethically sketchy.

See, for me, blackmail has to return something of value.

And if she went in, not expecting a direct benefit, then....there's no blackmail.  

Every decision we make in life, involving other folks, takes into account what they want, how they feel, etc.  Laying out a cause/effect for someone....I'm not sure that constitutes blackmail.  I mean, it's just as easy to interpret what she said as "I can't work with another one of these fuckers...I just can't."  Yes, there is an emotional component to the discussion, to the ultimatum..but blackmail? Again, I don't see it.  I keep saying YMMV, and I mean it.  If that's the way you interpret it, I don't think there's any way to sway that POV.  It's not WRONG, it just doesn't jive with my experience.  I'll freely admit that, in this case, I'm a little too close to similar situations to tell anyone they should take my POV as gospel.

Also...and I'm spitballing here...quitting means not working for Axl any more.  It doesn't, necessarily, mean "exit, stage right" from his life.  It might just mean an end to the professional relationship, not the personal one. I don't know...just something to think about.

[jarmo]

Just realized this has turned into another Dead Horse topic that's not really about the band....

Kinda sad.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Just realized this has turned into another Dead Horse topic that's not really about the band....

Kinda sad.

You just realized that?

You do realize how posts the past few pages came from you, right?  Never occurred to you during any of them?

Hey, for once, I'm with you.  This whole showergate thing seems pretty silly to me.

But, you say that like there is all this other super exciting news we should be focusing on.  I think we all wish there were, but there ain't.

[jarmo]

Well, I was talking about a thing regarding the fact that some are convinced Duff was lied to and there was an effort to stop him from meeting Axl.
I'll admit that that's pretty boring to be talking about that, again.

But the how the management became management has even less to do with anything than the other stuff...

Didn't say I wasn't partly responsible. I still think the fascination some have with the band's management is kinda sad. Especially when that fascination isn't exactly based on any good thoughts.



Tomorrow is the Friday a week after the Friday that was supposed to be the day!



/jarmo

[Ginger King]

Tomorrow is the Friday a week after the Friday that was supposed to be the day!

/jarmo

So you're saying there's a chance...

[jarmo]

There's a 50/50 chance that tomorrow is the Friday after the Friday, but there's only a ten percent chance of that.



/jarmo

[Spirit]

Tomorrow is also the friday before the friday which is even closer to the real friday which an announcement is expected.

[RnT]

Tomorrow is also the friday before the friday which is even closer to the real friday which an announcement is expected.

[RnT]

I wish Axl could be more like Dave Mustane, do some videos for instagram, facebook, youtube?s megadeth channel..... 

[Spirit]

That Steven picture gets me every time. So versatile, works on many occasions.

[Princess Leia]

SHOWERGATE : DAY 2

What did room service know...and when did they know it??

 

I find it fascinating to talk about Axl being the shower. I think in the Robert John book there is a picture of Axl in the shower. Having said that. In this case when meeting Duff well, Duff was not the only one being told to he could not see Axl.

When Adler met Axl in Vegas he faced a somewhat similar situation. Axl was not in shower, Adler was talking to Del James and Del wouldn?t let him to see Axl. But Axl was around and when he saw Steven he didn?t have any problem to talk to him. This according to Adler.

 I think people from Axl entourage sometimes overreact and are overprotective.

[jarmo]

That Adler appearance at the after party sure ended well for all involved....   



/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

That Adler appearance at the after party sure ended well for all involved....   



/jarmo

Who cares how it finished. The fact is Adler wanted to talk to Axl, people wouldn?t let him. But Axl decided he wanted to talk to him. I think Axl is perfectly capable to decide to whom he wants to talk. It has to be his decision not someone else?s

[EmilyGNR]

I wish Axl could be more like Dave Mustane, do some videos for instagram, facebook, youtube?s megadeth channel..... 

I wish Dave Mustaine would be more like Axl and not plaster himself all over social media.

The rock mystique is sorely missed in this internet age IMO.

[EmilyGNR]

That Adler appearance at the after party sure ended well for all involved....   



/jarmo

Who cares how it finished. The fact is Adler wanted to talk to Axl, people wouldn?t let him. But Axl decided he wanted to talk to him. I think Axl is perfectly capable to decide to whom he wants to talk. It has to be his decision not someone else?s

I care how it finished

It seems to be one more reason to avoid Adler completely.

Axl-
Steven was at our show at the Hard Rock, later in '06 in Las Vegas, where I invited him to our after-party and was rewarded with his subsequent interviews filled with reunion lies. Lesson learned [HOF Press Release, April 2011]