Is Friday the day?

[JAEBALL]

But they lied, he wasn't in the shower! 


/jarmo

I agree... they did lie 

[jarmo]

You guys are amazing.

“You can’t go in right now, man,” said one. “He’s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.”
“I’ve seen him naked before,” I said.
The door to Axl’s room opened a crack.
“I thought I heard your voice out here,” said Axl.
He wasn’t naked.”

He wasn't in the shower. It was a lie! 
Let's ignore the fact that he's getting ready for the show that everybody normally wants to start before it's considered "late".

 


Showering is important. But in this case, try to focus on the big picture. Stop thinking about naked Axl in the shower for a bit.


/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

SHOWERGATE : DAY 2

What did room service know...and when did they know it??

[Ginger King]

You guys are amazing.

?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
?I?ve seen him naked before,? I said.
The door to Axl?s room opened a crack.
?I thought I heard your voice out here,? said Axl.
He wasn?t naked.?

He wasn't in the shower. It was a lie! 
Let's ignore the fact that he's getting ready for the show that everybody normally wants to start before it's considered "late".

 

/jarmo

So you're saying it was a harmless error rather than a lie?  Either way, it was a (baseless) excuse used to justify why Axl couldn't be bothered.  And it was incorrect, right?  

[pilferk]

I'm not the one that threw it out there, but try this for thought.  Didn't she threaten to quit if Axl hired another manager?  [Note: I only know this because of (direct quotes) I read online...so I guess to some that makes this whole thing suspect].

I guess it's possible that she could do the same thing this time around, if she truly thought that reuniting with Slash was bad for Axl.  FWIW, I don't buy it.

Sorta, kinda..not really.

What she actually did was say, given all the issues we've had with managers lately, I can't stand around and watch you get screwed again.  So, if you're going to go that route, I have to walk away.

Which is a little different than "Give me the promotion or I quit".  And not just semantically.

Beta and Fernando had really been doing the heavy lifting of coordinating all the tour stuff for awhile, anyway, it seems.  The only part they didn't have OBVIOUS experience in, by that point, was the AR/label stuff...and they could very well have been handling a lot of that stuff on Axl's behalf too.  We just don't know.  So I don't think the leap to the conclusion that "Hey, these guys can do this job better than any of the other train wrecks we've dealt with over the past decade" is really all that far.

People try to portray the promotion as hiring the maid, who yesterday was scrubbing Axl's toilets, to be his manager the next day.  That's not remotely an accurate portrayal.  At. All.

[jarmo]

So you're saying it was a harmless error rather than a lie?  Either way, it was a (baseless) excuse used to justify why Axl couldn't be bothered.  And it was incorrect, right?  

It's not an error nor a lie.

It's like when you put a Do Not Disturb sign at the door in a hotel.

It wasn't about Duff seeing Axl naked! That's what you guys think.
It was about disturbing the routine of getting ready so they could go to the venue and do the show.

It's very simple logic. Ever gotten sidetracked by something? No?

Sometimes it's ok, sometimes you wish you hadn't!
But I bet you never had a sold out O2 hoping you don't get sidetracked.




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

You guys are amazing.

?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
?I?ve seen him naked before,? I said.
The door to Axl?s room opened a crack.
?I thought I heard your voice out here,? said Axl.
He wasn?t naked.?

He wasn't in the shower. It was a lie! 
Let's ignore the fact that he's getting ready for the show that everybody normally wants to start before it's considered "late".

 


Showering is important. But in this case, try to focus on the big picture. Stop thinking about naked Axl in the shower for a bit.


/jarmo

I was just foolin'

I have no opinion or care about Axl in the shower ...ha

[D-GenerationX]

People try to portray the promotion as hiring the maid, who yesterday was scrubbing Axl's toilets, to be his manager the next day.  That's not remotely an accurate portrayal.  At. All.

Yeah, I always felt the same.

Their relationship is like 7 different kinds of bizarre, but I never really got onboard with that particular taunt.

[D-GenerationX]

I have no opinion or care about Axl in the shower ...ha

Until yesterday, I didn't even recall this story.

Was this a huge deal at the time?

[JAEBALL]

I'm not the one that threw it out there, but try this for thought.  Didn't she threaten to quit if Axl hired another manager?  [Note: I only know this because of (direct quotes) I read online...so I guess to some that makes this whole thing suspect].

I guess it's possible that she could do the same thing this time around, if she truly thought that reuniting with Slash was bad for Axl.  FWIW, I don't buy it.

Sorta, kinda..not really.

What she actually did was say, given all the issues we've had with managers lately, I can't stand around and watch you get screwed again.  So, if you're going to go that route, I have to walk away.

Which is a little different than "Give me the promotion or I quit".  And not just semantically.

Beta and Fernando had really been doing the heavy lifting of coordinating all the tour stuff for awhile, anyway, it seems.  The only part they didn't have OBVIOUS experience in, by that point, was the AR/label stuff...and they could very well have been handling a lot of that stuff on Axl's behalf too.  We just don't know.  So I don't think the leap to the conclusion that "Hey, these guys can do this job better than any of the other train wrecks we've dealt with over the past decade" is really all that far.

People try to portray the promotion as hiring the maid, who yesterday was scrubbing Axl's toilets, to be his manager the next day.  That's not remotely an accurate portrayal.  At. All.

I agree.

It just sounded bad at the time... and fit very easily in to the premise that she runs Axl's life and is some kind of puppet master to benefit her and her family financially. It was a lay up.

[pilferk]

So you're saying it was a harmless error rather than a lie?  Either way, it was a (baseless) excuse used to justify why Axl couldn't be bothered.  And it was incorrect, right?  

Rather, it was a familiar economy of language.

"Axl getting ready to shower, and get ready for the show" to someone you know means "Hey, he's in the process of a)showering b)shitting c)shaving d)picking out his clothes e)getting dressed f)potentially stuffing his face and e)getting his head in the right place to go out on stage)."  It doesn't mean that, at that moment, he is LITERALLY ABOUT to step foot over the threshold of the shower, and putting his head under the water.  Especially when the person you're talking to isn't literally in the room with Axl during said process, or washing his hair for him in the shower.  It's a rough guess about where Axl might be in the process, and whether its appropriate to disturb that process at that moment.

I'm a guy who is all about literalism and being semantically correct.  But that particular conversation?  Its hard to take issue with the guys at the door if the boss is in the process of getting ready.  You really want to be the guy at the door, who lets Duff in, when Axl's pulling his tightie whities on? Even wanna take that chance?

[JAEBALL]

I have no opinion or care about Axl in the shower ...ha

Until yesterday, I didn't even recall this story.

Was this a huge deal at the time?

Yeah when Duff's book came out it...it was discussed enough. Duff worded it in way that lended to the idea they didn't want Axl to see him.

[jarmo]

Until yesterday, I didn't even recall this story.

Was this a huge deal at the time?

It's been a big deal to those who twist it and use it as a reason for their agenda.
The "they tried to block him". Nowhere in the book does Duff even claim that!

Rather, it was a familiar economy of language.

"Axl getting ready to shower, and get ready for the show" to someone you know means "Hey, he's in the process of a)showering b)shitting c)shaving d)picking out his clothes e)getting dressed f)potentially stuffing his face and e)getting his head in the right place to go out on stage)."  It doesn't mean that, at that moment, he is LITERALLY ABOUT to step foot over the threshold of the shower, and putting his head under the water.  Especially when the person you're talking to isn't literally in the room with Axl during said process, or washing his hair for him in the shower.  It's a rough guess about where Axl might be in the process, and whether its appropriate to disturb that process at that moment.

I'm a guy who is all about literalism and being semantically correct.  But that particular conversation?  Its hard to take issue with the guys at the door if the boss is in the process of getting ready.  You really want to be the guy at the door, who lets Duff in, when Axl's pulling his tightie whities on? Even wanna take that chance?

That's what I've been trying to say for a day now. Yet it hasn't made any sense to them, yet.

Here's to hoping.





/jarmo

[Ginger King]

I'm not the one that threw it out there, but try this for thought.  Didn't she threaten to quit if Axl hired another manager?  [Note: I only know this because of (direct quotes) I read online...so I guess to some that makes this whole thing suspect].

I guess it's possible that she could do the same thing this time around, if she truly thought that reuniting with Slash was bad for Axl.  FWIW, I don't buy it.

Sorta, kinda..not really.

What she actually did was say, given all the issues we've had with managers lately, I can't stand around and watch you get screwed again.  So, if you're going to go that route, I have to walk away.

Which is a little different than "Give me the promotion or I quit".  And not just semantically.

Beta and Fernando had really been doing the heavy lifting of coordinating all the tour stuff for awhile, anyway, it seems.  The only part they didn't have OBVIOUS experience in, by that point, was the AR/label stuff...and they could very well have been handling a lot of that stuff on Axl's behalf too.  We just don't know.  So I don't think the leap to the conclusion that "Hey, these guys can do this job better than any of the other train wrecks we've dealt with over the past decade" is really all that far.

People try to portray the promotion as hiring the maid, who yesterday was scrubbing Axl's toilets, to be his manager the next day.  That's not remotely an accurate portrayal.  At. All.

What she actually did say was this:   "I told [Rose] if he hires another manager, I quit."

For someone who's a stickler for literalism, I think that's pretty unambiguous.

I agree with you that a lot of people inaccurately portray her rise from maid to manager.  But no one here, although some of us will (annoyingly) be swept up into that.

[pilferk]

So you're saying it was a harmless error rather than a lie?  Either way, it was a (baseless) excuse used to justify why Axl couldn't be bothered.  And it was incorrect, right?  

Ok,maybe this will help (or maybe not).  Do you have kids?  Do you have a shortage of bathrooms in your house?

There are 5 of us, in my house.  WE have 2.5 baths.  The following situation happens to me at least once a week:

Me: "I'm gonna jump in the shower"

I start the process of showering...brushing my teeth, putting in my contact lenses, maybe hunting for a razor blade, or shampoo, or whatever.  All part of the "showering" process..but I'm still dressed (basically). Shower water may, or may not, be running.

I hear a commotion outside.

My wife: "No, you have to wait. Daddy's in the shower".

I pop open to door to assess whatever craziness has ensued, and usually my response is (assuming I have not actually stepped under the water):

Me: "It's OK, c'mon in and do [whatever]. I'm still dressed/decent/not in the shower, yet".

Did my wife lie to the kids? Was she wrong?  Was she trying to "shield me from having a conversation" with them?

No, she was trying to respect my privacy, not cause delay in my bathroom process as I'm trying to get out the door (or whatever), and...not being IN THE ROOM, she can't really comment on where I am in the process.  The door is closed.  I've indicated I'm gonna take a shower.

[D-GenerationX]

That's what I've been trying to say for a day now. Yet it hasn't made any sense to them, yet.

All in the delivery, perhaps.

[pilferk]

What she actually did say was this:   "I told [Rose] if he hires another manager, I quit."

For someone who's a stickler for literalism, I think that's pretty unambiguous.

I agree with you that a lot of people inaccurately portray her rise from maid to manager.  But no one here, although some of us will (annoyingly) be swept up into that.

And I just explained to you what she meant by that, literally, in the interview.  What she said AT THE TIME, not when asked about it later.

The words aren't ambiguous.  But the motivation, and meaning behind why she was saying it, are.  Or, rather, they aren't..but they're being presented as a temper tantrum, when they were really based around not wanting to see someone she cared about screwed over again.  She had good reason to feel that way, no?

[D-GenerationX]

What she actually did say was this:   "I told [Rose] if he hires another manager, I quit."

For someone who's a stickler for literalism, I think that's pretty unambiguous.

And considering we've been told he considers her a mother of sorts, how is that not emotional blackmail, no matter how you dress it up?

[pilferk]

And considering we've been told he considers her a mother of sorts, how is that not emotional blackmail, no matter how you dress it up?

Yeah, I just don't see it that way.

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions for YOURSELF, when you're watching someone you care about get screwed over or hurt.  You can't bring yourself to stand by and watch more of the same.

I see why other folks might think that, but having been in a position like that in the past...I made the decision I did not in hopes the other person would change direction, or give me something I wanted, but because I literally couldn't fathom sitting in the front row while they went through something.

YMMV.

[D-GenerationX]

And considering we've been told he considers her a mother of sorts, how is that not emotional blackmail, no matter how you dress it up?

Yeah, I just don't see it that way.

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions for YOURSELF, when you're watching someone you care about get screwed over or hurt.  You can't bring yourself to stand by and watch more of the same.

I see why other folks might think that, but having been in a position like that in the past...I made the decision I did not in hopes the other person would change direction, or give me something I wanted, but because I literally couldn't fathom sitting in the front row while they went through something.

YMMV.

In your opinion, was there even a 1% chance Axl's answer to that ultimatum ever going to be, "Well...guess you're out of here, then.  See ya, saw ya."