Is Friday the day?

[OscarAxl22]

Haters and trolls are the people who say genuinely mean and/or hate-filled stuff about Axl, or spread rumors about him which either belittle or slander him. One troll on another board tried to spread a rumor that Axl was "gay" all over the net and provided people with Del's and Beta's cell numbers freely, for instance, a while back.

Those are extreme and sociopathic cases. Many Trolls simply post statements to intentionally get a rise out of people like you do on a continual basis here.

So, am I, in your eyes, not a GN'R fan or something? Define a "troll"? My words may disturb, but at least there's a reaction. At least what I say gets people talking. It isn't so much about attention for myself, but stirring the pot to get people talking about a band I happen to really love. Axl Rose is my hero. But that doesn't mean I can't disagree with my hero or even be pissed off at him; "Kill your idols" and the general message he was trying to say with that t-shirt; "Don't hail me and don't idolize the ink." I don't think Axl would want anyone blindly kissing his ass, and I don't intend to do that. If I get a rise out of people who will hurt the man by telling him everything he does is okay, even if it is objectively harming his career and legacy, well, that's on you, not on me. I'll call Axl out for making what I see as bad choices, the same way I'll call out the people who are out to destroy his reputation as well. If that makes me a "troll" or a "hater", so be it. But, I evangelize Guns everywhere I go.

Why is it that loyal supportive fans are always accused of "blindly" following, or supposedly enabling career damaging or legacy harming?

You are seriously delusional if you think you "calling Axl out" makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things, that is laughable.

I think you like the attention so you make troll posts and hope to elicit an emotional response, it's creepy 

You really aren't adding anything to the conversation.. other then calling more people out as trolls. 

[OscarAxl22]

By 'power', dude, you're tight with Team Brazil. Axl's management team. By proxy, you're tight with Axl and his camp. Who I will admit I honestly do not trust very much. Marc Canter, who was friends to both Slash and Axl for decades, has said things to the effect that "Beta increased Axl's hatred of Slash" and "Beta hates Slash even more than Axl does", "Beta thinks Slash is evil." Why should I trust someone who hates one of the key components in a possible reunion to not do something to sabotage it from happening? If people around me hated my ex-girlfriend and felt my ex-girlfriend was "evil", I wouldn't see them being supportive of me say getting back with her, to use an analogy.

Not really, but...
You choose to put a lot of faith into one person's opinion for some reason.
At least you admit your bias, which probably explains why you'd believe anybody who says anything to fuel that bias even more.

In my experience, you gotta be careful what you believe, especially when you don't know what makes people say things. Also in cases when the person is described with "was friends with....".
Just saying I'd be a bit more careful about believing everything as facts....

As for 'erasing the past'...Not literally, obviously. But do you deny that a reunion could potentially eclipse what Axl has been doing since 1996? As D-GX has said, people in the public/mainstream/casual fans would go "Thank God real GN'R is back"/"Thank God that's over". Perhaps "eclipse" the last 15 or so years would be a better choice of words.

I'm not denying anything.  No matter how much you claim I hate the old band, I never even denied what they accomplished.
To me, the different eras of the band, it's not about competition. One over the other, or whatever. I've enjoyed all of it.

Great times, great memories. And I think there's more to come.


 


/jarmo

I used to think Marc was a bit of a saint and had been hard done by, so i believed a lot of what he had to say as well at first, but now im not 100% on him.... im on the fence as far as hes concerned.

[CherryGarcia]

Why is it that loyal supportive fans are always accused of "blindly" following, or supposedly enabling career damaging or legacy harming?

You are seriously delusional if you think you "calling Axl out" makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things, that is laughable.

I think you like the attention so you make troll posts and hope to elicit an emotional response, it's creepy 

If your child is destroying their body and life with drugs, say, or flunking in school, is it not enabling damage to their lives/careers by cheering on their every decision and calling anyone who says "your kid is messing up and wasting their talent" a 'hater'? Sometimes criticism can be positive, helpful even, borne out of love, not hate. Blindly supporting, to me, is saying everything Axl has done, every single action he has taken, for the last 20 years has been the right action. Can you honestly say to yourself that Axl's career has gone the best it could've?

You are seriously delusional if you think your unconditional support makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things. You are seriously delusional if you think even discussing something your passionate about is anything less than a waste of time. I mean, why even talk about something you love if you're not in any position to do so?

I think I like trying to get people to talk about a band that is on 'hiatus'. I think I like defending a guy who is the second most misunderstood and unfairly maligned person in the history of modern popular music. I think I like clearing up myths and bullshit with facts. I think blindly following an artist and supporting every decision they make is creepy.

[EmilyGNR]

Why is it that loyal supportive fans are always accused of "blindly" following, or supposedly enabling career damaging or legacy harming?

You are seriously delusional if you think you "calling Axl out" makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things, that is laughable.

I think you like the attention so you make troll posts and hope to elicit an emotional response, it's creepy 

If your child is destroying their body and life with drugs, say, or flunking in school, is it not enabling damage to their lives/careers by cheering on their every decision and calling anyone who says "your kid is messing up and wasting their talent" a 'hater'? Sometimes criticism can be positive, helpful even, borne out of love, not hate. Blindly supporting, to me, is saying everything Axl has done, every single action he has taken, for the last 20 years has been the right action. Can you honestly say to yourself that Axl's career has gone the best it could've?

You are seriously delusional if you think your unconditional support makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things. You are seriously delusional if you think even discussing something your passionate about is anything less than a waste of time. I mean, why even talk about something you love if you're not in any position to do so?

I think I like trying to get people to talk about a band that is on 'hiatus'. I think I like defending a guy who is the second most misunderstood and unfairly maligned person in the history of modern popular music. I think I like clearing up myths and bullshit with facts. I think blindly following an artist and supporting every decision they make is creepy.

 You believe and say a lot that isn't true, so I'm not honestly concerned about what you think. 

I will continue to be a supportive and loyal GNR fan.

[jarmo]

You really aren't adding anything to the conversation.. other then calling more people out as trolls. 

The post in question was not aimed at you, it asked another poster some questions. It's called a discussion.
If you don't want to participate, please just stay out.

You seem to me into complaining about other posters today.




/jarmo

[CherryGarcia]

Not really, but...
You choose to put a lot of faith into one person's opinion for some reason.
At least you admit your bias, which probably explains why you'd believe anybody who says anything to fuel that bias even more.

In my experience, you gotta be careful what you believe, especially when you don't know what makes people say things. Also in cases when the person is described with "was friends with....".
Just saying I'd be a bit more careful about believing everything as facts....

Well considering Marc was around both Axl and Slash for decades, and that he's even trashed Slash for certain decisions he's made (including the whole Snakepit ordeal), I choose to believe Marc on certain matters because if you've paid attention to his words he's been pretty even handed in both praising and critiquing both Axl and Slash equally. He's someone who knows a lot more than you or I will ever. He was there from the very beginning, and was around when the bitter end between the two was happening. He was there making sure their very first shows together were recorded, and there listening to both sides bitch.

Also, you didn't really directly address any of my points. I mean, let's get everything on the table here. Do you really think Beta would go out of her way to support Axl if he chose to reunite? You can't see any scenario where she would spread misinformation to ensure they never share a stage again? Because honestly, from everything I've heard about her, I can.

[OscarAxl22]

You really aren't adding anything to the conversation.. other then calling more people out as trolls. 

The post in question was not aimed at you, it asked another poster some questions. It's called a discussion.
If you don't want to participate, please just stay out.

You seem to me into complaining about other posters today.




/jarmo

Did u miss my other comment directly below the comment you decided to quote?

[CherryGarcia]

Why is it that loyal supportive fans are always accused of "blindly" following, or supposedly enabling career damaging or legacy harming?

You are seriously delusional if you think you "calling Axl out" makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things, that is laughable.

I think you like the attention so you make troll posts and hope to elicit an emotional response, it's creepy 

If your child is destroying their body and life with drugs, say, or flunking in school, is it not enabling damage to their lives/careers by cheering on their every decision and calling anyone who says "your kid is messing up and wasting their talent" a 'hater'? Sometimes criticism can be positive, helpful even, borne out of love, not hate. Blindly supporting, to me, is saying everything Axl has done, every single action he has taken, for the last 20 years has been the right action. Can you honestly say to yourself that Axl's career has gone the best it could've?

You are seriously delusional if you think your unconditional support makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things. You are seriously delusional if you think even discussing something your passionate about is anything less than a waste of time. I mean, why even talk about something you love if you're not in any position to do so?

I think I like trying to get people to talk about a band that is on 'hiatus'. I think I like defending a guy who is the second most misunderstood and unfairly maligned person in the history of modern popular music. I think I like clearing up myths and bullshit with facts. I think blindly following an artist and supporting every decision they make is creepy.

 You believe and say a lot that isn't true, so I'm not honestly concerned about what you think. 

I will continue to be a supportive and loyal GNR fan.

If you aren't concerned with what I think, why keep replying to me? 

[OscarAxl22]

Not really, but...
You choose to put a lot of faith into one person's opinion for some reason.
At least you admit your bias, which probably explains why you'd believe anybody who says anything to fuel that bias even more.

In my experience, you gotta be careful what you believe, especially when you don't know what makes people say things. Also in cases when the person is described with "was friends with....".
Just saying I'd be a bit more careful about believing everything as facts....

Well considering Marc was around both Axl and Slash for decades, and that he's even trashed Slash for certain decisions he's made (including the whole Snakepit ordeal), I choose to believe Marc on certain matters because if you've paid attention to his words he's been pretty even handed in both praising and critiquing both Axl and Slash equally. He's someone who knows a lot more than you or I will ever. He was there from the very beginning, and was around when the bitter end between the two was happening. He was there making sure their very first shows together were recorded, and there listening to both sides bitch.

Also, you didn't really directly address any of my points. I mean, let's get everything on the table here.Do you really think Beta would go out of her way to support Axl if he chose to reunite? You can't see any scenario where she would spread misinformation to ensure they never share a stage again? Because honestly, from everything I've hea rd about her, I can.

[/quote]



I really dont see why she wouldnt support him to be honest? As much as i dont like her management skills, i dont see what she would have to gain from road blocking Axl from sharing a stage with slash again?

[EmilyGNR]

Not really, but...
You choose to put a lot of faith into one person's opinion for some reason.
At least you admit your bias, which probably explains why you'd believe anybody who says anything to fuel that bias even more.

In my experience, you gotta be careful what you believe, especially when you don't know what makes people say things. Also in cases when the person is described with "was friends with....".
Just saying I'd be a bit more careful about believing everything as facts....

Well considering Marc was around both Axl and Slash for decades, and that he's even trashed Slash for certain decisions he's made (including the whole Snakepit ordeal), I choose to believe Marc on certain matters because if you've paid attention to his words he's been pretty even handed in both praising and critiquing both Axl and Slash equally. He's someone who knows a lot more than you or I will ever. He was there from the very beginning, and was around when the bitter end between the two was happening. He was there making sure their very first shows together were recorded, and there listening to both sides bitch.

Also, you didn't really directly address any of my points. I mean, let's get everything on the table here. Do you really think Beta would go out of her way to support Axl if he chose to reunite? You can't see any scenario where she would spread misinformation to ensure they never share a stage again? Because honestly, from everything I've heard about her, I can.
[/quote]


--------------------------------------------------
When you think you know a person from "what you've heard" you are laboring under a flawed premise and likely outright delusion.(there's that word again)

I honestly would take former friends and associates words with a large dose of salt, they are "former" for a reason.

[D-GenerationX]

Why is it that loyal supportive fans are always accused of "blindly" following, or supposedly enabling career damaging or legacy harming?

You are seriously delusional if you think you "calling Axl out" makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things, that is laughable.

Like to jump in here, if I might.

As to your first point, it lacks credibility.  Extremes are rarely sustainable and ultimately illogical.  Surely, they must have done something you either didn't like, or didn't think came off as well as it might have.  

And that segues into your second point.  Which I agree with, by the way.  Nothing any of us say, pro or con, ultimately matters to what the band has done or will ever do.

But tying into that first point, you almost seem afraid to say that sort of thing, for some reason.  Or ever go somewhere where that sort of thing might be uttered.  So you come here.  And anyone that tries to bring that "troll behavior", which is how you label anything but glowing praise, which you call "loyal fandom" here...you resent.  

This is the safe zone.  

[D-GenerationX]

When you think you know a person from "what you've heard" you are laboring under a flawed premise and likely outright delusion.(there's that word again)

I honestly would take former friends and associates words with a large dose of salt, they are "former" for a reason.

Big time.

[jarmo]

Did u miss my other comment directly below the comment you decided to quote?

No, didn't miss anything.

Just responded to the one that's trying to start yet another argument about how you don't like that poster and that poster doesn't like you.
So it doesn't happen, again.

Well considering Marc was around both Axl and Slash for decades, and that he's even trashed Slash for certain decisions he's made (including the whole Snakepit ordeal), I choose to believe Marc on certain matters because if you've paid attention to his words he's been pretty even handed in both praising and critiquing both Axl and Slash equally. He's someone who knows a lot more than you or I will ever. He was there from the very beginning, and was around when the bitter end between the two was happening. He was there making sure their very first shows together were recorded, and there listening to both sides bitch.

Yeah, this makes no sense to me.
"He said bad things about the other guy, so he must be telling the truth about this person".

Not convinced.

Let me ask you this, you think the fact that he's not associated with the band anymore makes a difference?


Lots of people know more than I! Doesn't matter at all in this discussion. I'm glad he documented those shows. Great for us fans.
Doesn't mean I have to take every word he says as the absolute truth. Never even met the guy.

Also, you didn't really directly address any of my points. I mean, let's get everything on the table here. Do you really think Beta would go out of her way to support Axl if he chose to reunite? You can't see any scenario where she would spread misinformation to ensure they never share a stage again? Because honestly, from everything I've heard about her, I can.

I didn't answer because it's so ridiculous.
Do you know what managers do?

What managers were there when Izzy joined the band on stage in 2012 and Duff toured with the band in 2014?
Just asking.






/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

What the hell would Beta have to gain suddenly taking a stand against Axl's wishes?

Makes no sense.

[EmilyGNR]

Why is it that loyal supportive fans are always accused of "blindly" following, or supposedly enabling career damaging or legacy harming?

You are seriously delusional if you think you "calling Axl out" makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things, that is laughable.

Like to jump in here, if I might.

As to your first point, it lacks credibility.  Extremes are rarely sustainable and ultimately illogical.  Surely, they must have done something you either didn't like, or didn't think came off as well as it might have.  

And that segues into your second point.  Which I agree with, by the way.  Nothing any of us say, pro or con, ultimately matters to what the band has done or will ever do.

But tying into that first point, you almost seem afraid to say that sort of thing, for some reason.  Or ever go somewhere where that sort of thing might be uttered.  So you come here.  And anyone that tries to bring that "troll behavior", which is how you label anything but glowing praise, which you call "loyal fandom" here...you resent.  

This is the safe zone.  

Not afraid of a thing, you are wrong again, as you tend to be frequently.

I am happy with what GNR has accomplished and done over the years- I appreciate all the shows I have gone to and the music that was created.

I appreciate and am grateful that Axl continued with the band and soldiered ahead in spite of every reason not to, and I admire and respect that decision.

All in all- I'm grateful that GNR existed and continues to exist- is that hard to comprehend?

[CherryGarcia]

Yeah, this makes no sense to me.
"He said bad things about the other guy, so he must be telling the truth about this person".

Not convinced.

Let me ask you this, you think the fact that he's not associated with the band anymore makes a difference?

Well, I mean if the guy was an Axl hater, do you think he'd have gone and said Slash "got a big head and stole the Snakepit songs when all Axl wanted was to work on a few of them"? That said, I do think he's doing his friends (Axl and Slash) a disservice by acting as a fan gossip column. I know I wouldn't do that to my friends or ex-friends especially if I wanted them back in my life. But, I don't think he's said things about Beta because he's not associated with the band anymore. He's been very clear on why he's not associated with the band anymore. Why make up stories out of wholecloth about Beta? I'm not saying it's all 1000% true but..."Broken clock is right twice a day"...

What managers were there when Izzy joined the band on stage in 2012 and Duff toured with the band in 2014?
Just asking.

Duff, who wouldn't have even met Axl at that hotel if certain people had had their way? The same people who claimed Axl was showering in an attempt to make sure they wouldn't meet?

[D-GenerationX]

All in all- I'm grateful that GNR existed and continues to exist- is that hard to comprehend?

Not even a little bit.  I'm with you on all that.  

But that's not what I'm talking about either.

There is not one person, and I couldn't be more literal on that...there ain't a one...that would be labeled a "troll" on any other GNR site on the internet.  

Obviously no one is here shitting on the band.  But the role of "troll" has to be filled some way, right?  All message boards need villains.

So because the definition of "troll" has been defined down around here, the role is filled by anyone either coming out against something, or in some cases, even just asking some questions.

Only here is that a "troll".  The argument only works if you seriously, never, ever, ever leave here, and its all you know.

[CherryGarcia]

All in all- I'm grateful that GNR existed and continues to exist- is that hard to comprehend?

Not even a little bit.  I'm with you on all that.  

But that's not what I'm talking about either.

There is not one person, and I couldn't be more literal on that...there ain't a one...that would be labeled a "troll" on any other GNR site on the internet.  

Obviously no one is here shitting on the band.  But the role of "troll" has to be filled some way, right?  All message boards need villains.

So because the definition of "troll" has been defined down around here, the role is filled by anyone either coming out against something, or in some cases, even just asking some questions.

Only here is that a "troll".  The argument only works if you seriously, never, ever, ever leave here, and its all you know.

I know I'm considered a "troll" here, and yet on other GN'R boards I'm considered an "Axl ass kisser", and on mainstream (non-GN'R) music forums I have to bend over backwards to defend Axl and show how he's not the "asshole" people peg him as. It's interesting how on one forum I'm an Axl "ass licker" or ass kisser and here I'm a hater and a troll.

[EmilyGNR]

All in all- I'm grateful that GNR existed and continues to exist- is that hard to comprehend?

Not even a little bit.  I'm with you on all that.  

But that's not what I'm talking about either.

There is not one person, and I couldn't be more literal on that...there ain't a one...that would be labeled a "troll" on any other GNR site on the internet.  

Obviously no one is here shitting on the band.  But the role of "troll" has to be filled some way, right?  All message boards need villains.

So because the definition of "troll" has been defined down around here, the role is filled by anyone either coming out against something, or in some cases, even just asking some questions.

Only here is that a "troll".  The argument only works if you seriously, never, ever, ever leave here, and its all you know.

I'm not labelling you as some sort of villain, nor are you simply filling some sort of preconceived role- a quick glance at your posting history shows that you have a virtual plethora of criticisms, gripes, complaints about things over the years and all too frequently you offer unqualified advice- which is odd considering you don't have all the facts.

I'm simply stating that a great deal of your posts seem to me as if you are venting, projecting and trying to paint all things GNR as somehow dark, or dire-

You call it "being open minded" - I have some other descriptives that I feel more accurately label what you are doing here in many (not all) of your posts.

[EmilyGNR]

All in all- I'm grateful that GNR existed and continues to exist- is that hard to comprehend?

Not even a little bit.  I'm with you on all that.  

But that's not what I'm talking about either.

There is not one person, and I couldn't be more literal on that...there ain't a one...that would be labeled a "troll" on any other GNR site on the internet.  

Obviously no one is here shitting on the band.  But the role of "troll" has to be filled some way, right?  All message boards need villains.

So because the definition of "troll" has been defined down around here, the role is filled by anyone either coming out against something, or in some cases, even just asking some questions.

Only here is that a "troll".  The argument only works if you seriously, never, ever, ever leave here, and its all you know.

I know I'm considered a "troll" here, and yet on other GN'R boards I'm considered an "Axl ass kisser", and on mainstream (non-GN'R) music forums I have to bend over backwards to defend Axl and show how he's not the "asshole" people peg him as. It's interesting how on one forum I'm an Axl "ass licker" or ass kisser and here I'm a hater and a troll.

Honestly do not care what you are considered elsewhere- your post history here speaks volumes.