Is Friday the day?

[jarmo]

People are starting to see the silence as some sort of confirmation.... and that could be a problem if there's no truth to the rumors, that's my point.

It's the usual. You're saying something without saying anything.  

Even if he went out and said "no", some wouldn't believe him. On top of that, it might create other issues down the line.


What is the reunion anyway? Everybody seems to have an idea what it's supposed to be. For some, it's the AFD5, for others it's Axl, Duff and Slash. Then, others assume it's the UYI touring line up and so on.

Simply denying something isn't enough I think.... So in the end, it might not be the way to go at this point.


Anyway, regarding tomorrow. It's all been assumed by the media in Britain. Obviously the festivals love the extra attention.
I'm not gonna be upset if nothing happens. I know better.




/jarmo

[FreddieJames]

People are starting to see the silence as some sort of confirmation.... and that could be a problem if there's no truth to the rumors, that's my point.

I agree.

I still don't understand why that would be a problem. Like someone said before: if someone tells other people I am gay and then some guy comes up to me and tries to hit on me and I tell him 'thank you, but I am not gay' should he then be angry with me? Or the dude that told him I was gay?

I would consider it a problem if they now announce they're discussing a reunion and it blows up before it ever materializes. Because THEN there would be an actual reason to be disappointed.

[pilferk]

It's not like GNR are asking us for money everyday and we get nothing-nobody in that band owes us a damn thing! If they want my money, they can out a new album, tour, whatever. As it stands, I don't feel cheated, angry, anything like that. I come on here and read stuff because I'm interested- again, that's free, and if it angered me I wouldn't do that!

I don't feel Axl or anyone else need to constantly deny any rumour the internet might throw up, in the same way that if a rumour sprung up among the residents of my street that I was gay (I'm not) I wouldn't feel I had to go and knock on every house door to let them know my sexuality, or put out a big sign stating whether I was gay or straight. It would be a ridiculous response to a rumour.

It's ludicrous to expect any band to constantly deny any rumours about it - they owe us nothing. If they want our money, they'll do something for it. They're entertainers. If they want to do nothing, that's their look out.

Normally, I'm 100% in this camp. I think it's a bad idea to comment on every rumor that rears its head.

And even now..I agree...it's their call.  They can be silent if that's what they want to do.

But this rumor has sort of taken on a life of it's own. It's different than what had gone on before. This is being treated, by a LOT of places, as a legit news story.  And people...and I'm not just talking about those of us who dwell here...are taking the silence by Axl/GnR as sort of a tacit confirmation of "something" building toward a reunion type thing.  

Does Axl and GnR OWE us a comment? No.

But would it make a whole lot more sense for them to, directly or indirectly, shut it down? I think so, at this point.

[Spirit]

Simply denying something isn't enough I think.... So in the end, it might not be the way to go at this point.

If the rumors are all bullshit grounded in nothing, I don't see how a denial won't be enough. I would believe Axl if he came out and said there's no truth to the news stories, and he will continue without Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven. Things haven't changed since 1996, he will continue as before.

Anyway, regarding tomorrow. It's all been assumed by the media in Britain. Obviously the festivals love the extra attention.
I'm not gonna be upset if nothing happens. I know better.

Oh, I'm not placing any bets on any announcements tomorrow either.  

To be honest I'm not sure at all what to make of all the rumors floating around, I think it could og either way at this point. I would welcome any direction the band takes actually.

[jarmo]

If the rumors are all bullshit grounded in nothing, I don't see how a denial won't be enough. I would believe Axl if he came out and said there's no truth to the news stories, and he will continue without Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven. Things haven't changed since 1996, he will continue as before.

And let's say he did that and then at some point Duff does shows with GN'R like last year?
Even if that wasn't planned at the moment, but the door was left open for the possibility.

That's what I meant, saying just "no" might cause other issues....

Like "no, that guy isn't going to be there" and then he shows up anyway! Because you didn't expect him to, or something happened like last year.
There's many variables. 


Yeah, I think one thing seems to be pretty certain. No matter where GN'R plays next, Dj probably isn't going to be there....



/jarmo

[pilferk]

I still don't understand why that would be a problem. Like someone said before: if someone tells other people I am gay and then some guy comes up to me and tries to hit on me and I tell him 'thank you, but I am not gay' should he then be angry with me? Or the dude that told him I was gay?

I would consider it a problem if they now announce they're discussing a reunion and it blows up before it ever materializes. Because THEN there would be an actual reason to be disappointed.

I think analogies regarding yours (or anyone's) sexuality aren't particularly apt..and might be a bit sensitive as a jumping off point for further discussion.   So lets change direction a bit.

Say you were dating a girl.

You broke up. It was messy. For the next few years, through friends and other contacts, you basically hurled insults at each other and talked about how terrible the entire experience was.

One day, she tells a mutual friend that you're friends again, and it's cool.

A rumor starts that you're back together.

You decide it's stupid to address it.  So you don't.  You remain silent.

But...all of a sudden, everyone you know, everywhere you go insists that you're back together.  People report seeing you back together.  They report that you're about to get engaged. They're making you out to be this huge power couple that's going to light the world on fire, bring about world peace, and cure cancer...and that's just in your first few weeks together.

It starts to seep into your work place.  Your boss was a big fan of her...and seems to be implying increased professional opportunities for you if its true.  But only if you bring her to the company Christmas party (and every subsequent work function).

It starts to effect your personal life.  You can't get another date (though you're actually still looking) because everyone thinks you're back with your ex (and then think you're an ass for hitting on them). You have friends who you normally hang out with who now won't come around because they THINK you're back with your ex, and they're NOT fans, or are afraid they'll get pushed out my this new relationship rekindling.

In short, it's starting to effect almost every portion of your life.

Do you still stay silent?  Do you still not comment?  This isn't just any rumor, anymore. It's something a little bigger.

I mean...if so, that's fine. Your choice. Or if there's actually a chance of working things out with this girl, and you're not sure...again, that's fine.

But there are effects from that.  And there are assumptions that are going to get made..not just from your friends, but potentially from some prospective clients or business contacts.  There is an AWFUL lot of fallout from not commenting if the rumors are completely without basis.  And when people find out the truth..yeah, they're gonna be ticked AT YOU.  Because you could have set the record straight, at any point, and chose not to.  Again, you might have had your reasons for going that route..but now you're left trying to explain, and then untangle, down the road.  And there are STILL going to be folks who don't get the message and find out in the most uncomfortable and inconvenient way possible, whatever that is.

[pilferk]

If the rumors are all bullshit grounded in nothing, I don't see how a denial won't be enough. I would believe Axl if he came out and said there's no truth to the news stories, and he will continue without Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven. Things haven't changed since 1996, he will continue as before.

And let's say he did that and then at some point Duff does shows with GN'R like last year?
Even if that wasn't planned at the moment, but the door was left open for the possibility.

That's what I meant, saying just "no" might cause other issues....

Like "no, that guy isn't going to be there" and then he shows up anyway! Because you didn't expect him to, or something happened like last year.
There's many variables. 

I think they're smart folks.  I think there's a way to craft a statement (if they want to go after it directly) or make an indirect reference to press rumors (like I laid out before) that would get the point across, but leave open (or make obvious) any future one offs or fill in runs.

I mean: Axl's made categoric statements before about a reunion...and yet nobody seems to have been confused or ticked off by Izzy occasionally appearing or Duff filling in for Tommy.  I think you handle those independently of "day to day" standard operating procedure.  Again, assuming Duff isn't joining on a permanent basis..if that's true (but the Slash bit isn't) then...fair point.  You're stuck because it's harder to make a simple statement.

There are plusses and minuses on both sides, to both paths, if there's really zero truth to the rumors.  To ME, worrying about whether someone is going to do a one off/fill in, down the road vs the potential effects the current reunion rumor has seems to very decidedly tip the scales in the direction of the reunion rumors in terms of potential negative outcomes.  But that's just me.

Yeah, I think one thing seems to be pretty certain. No matter where GN'R plays next, Dj probably isn't going to be there....

/jarmo

Agree.  Also agree with the fact that I'm not getting my hopes up about any announcement tomorrow.  I'll be psyched if it's true, but....I fully expect it won't be.

[allwaystired]

I still don't understand why that would be a problem. Like someone said before: if someone tells other people I am gay and then some guy comes up to me and tries to hit on me and I tell him 'thank you, but I am not gay' should he then be angry with me? Or the dude that told him I was gay?

I would consider it a problem if they now announce they're discussing a reunion and it blows up before it ever materializes. Because THEN there would be an actual reason to be disappointed.

I think analogies regarding yours (or anyone's) sexuality aren't particularly apt..and might be a bit sensitive as a jumping off point for further discussion.   So lets change direction a bit.

Say you were dating a girl.

You broke up. It was messy. For the next few years, through friends and other contacts, you basically hurled insults at each other and talked about how terrible the entire experience was.

One day, she tells a mutual friend that you're friends again, and it's cool.

A rumor starts that you're back together.

You decide it's stupid to address it.  So you don't.  You remain silent.

But...all of a sudden, everyone you know, everywhere you go insists that you're back together.  People report seeing you back together.  They report that you're about to get engaged. They're making you out to be this huge power couple that's going to light the world on fire, bring about world peace, and cure cancer...and that's just in your first few weeks together.

It starts to seep into your work place.  Your boss was a big fan of her...and seems to be implying increased professional opportunities for you if its true.  But only if you bring her to the company Christmas party (and every subsequent work function).

It starts to effect your personal life.  You can't get another date (though you're actually still looking) because everyone thinks you're back with your ex (and then think you're an ass for hitting on them). You have friends who you normally hang out with who now won't come around because they THINK you're back with your ex, and they're NOT fans, or are afraid they'll get pushed out my this new relationship rekindling.

In short, it's starting to effect almost every portion of your life.

Do you still stay silent?  Do you still not comment?  This isn't just any rumor, anymore. It's something a little bigger.

I mean...if so, that's fine. Your choice. Or if there's actually a chance of working things out with this girl, and you're not sure...again, that's fine.

But there are effects from that.  And there are assumptions that are going to get made..not just from your friends, but potentially from some prospective clients or business contacts.  There is an AWFUL lot of fallout from not commenting if the rumors are completely without basis.  And when people find out the truth..yeah, they're gonna be ticked AT YOU.  Because you could have set the record straight, at any point, and chose not to.  Again, you might have had your reasons for going that route..but now you're left trying to explain, and then untangle, down the road.  And there are STILL going to be folks who don't get the message and find out in the most uncomfortable and inconvenient way possible, whatever that is.

Yeah- you're probably right. Analogy was just something I pulled out of thin air (apologies for any offence!) but yours is probably better.

Another issue of course is- is Axl even aware of these rumours? We don't even know he goes on the internet. It wouldn't surprise me if he's in a bubble and is not even aware of most of them.

A similar case is that of Oasis I think- obviously a huge deal in the UK, with constant rumours about them re-forming, constant stories about them 'headlining Glastonbury' each year etc. Every interview Noel Gallagher does he gets asked about it. Every single time. Every time he says "no", but the rumours keep going. There's really no point in him even opening his mouth about it anymore. If Axl was doing interviews I'm sure it would be the same.

[JAEBALL]

I still don't understand why that would be a problem. Like someone said before: if someone tells other people I am gay and then some guy comes up to me and tries to hit on me and I tell him 'thank you, but I am not gay' should he then be angry with me? Or the dude that told him I was gay?

I would consider it a problem if they now announce they're discussing a reunion and it blows up before it ever materializes. Because THEN there would be an actual reason to be disappointed.

I think analogies regarding yours (or anyone's) sexuality aren't particularly apt..and might be a bit sensitive as a jumping off point for further discussion.   So lets change direction a bit.

Say you were dating a girl.

You broke up. It was messy. For the next few years, through friends and other contacts, you basically hurled insults at each other and talked about how terrible the entire experience was.

One day, she tells a mutual friend that you're friends again, and it's cool.

A rumor starts that you're back together.

You decide it's stupid to address it.  So you don't.  You remain silent.

But...all of a sudden, everyone you know, everywhere you go insists that you're back together.  People report seeing you back together.  They report that you're about to get engaged. They're making you out to be this huge power couple that's going to light the world on fire, bring about world peace, and cure cancer...and that's just in your first few weeks together.

It starts to seep into your work place.  Your boss was a big fan of her...and seems to be implying increased professional opportunities for you if its true.  But only if you bring her to the company Christmas party (and every subsequent work function).

It starts to effect your personal life.  You can't get another date (though you're actually still looking) because everyone thinks you're back with your ex (and then think you're an ass for hitting on them). You have friends who you normally hang out with who now won't come around because they THINK you're back with your ex, and they're NOT fans, or are afraid they'll get pushed out my this new relationship rekindling.

In short, it's starting to effect almost every portion of your life.

Do you still stay silent?  Do you still not comment?  This isn't just any rumor, anymore. It's something a little bigger.

I mean...if so, that's fine. Your choice. Or if there's actually a chance of working things out with this girl, and you're not sure...again, that's fine.

But there are effects from that.  And there are assumptions that are going to get made..not just from your friends, but potentially from some prospective clients or business contacts.  There is an AWFUL lot of fallout from not commenting if the rumors are completely without basis.  And when people find out the truth..yeah, they're gonna be ticked AT YOU.  Because you could have set the record straight, at any point, and chose not to.  Again, you might have had your reasons for going that route..but now you're left trying to explain, and then untangle, down the road.  And there are STILL going to be folks who don't get the message and find out in the most uncomfortable and inconvenient way possible, whatever that is.

Yeah- you're probably right. Analogy was just something I pulled out of thin air (apologies for any offence!) but yours is probably better.

Another issue of course is- is Axl even aware of these rumours? We don't even know he goes on the internet. It wouldn't surprise me if he's in a bubble and is not even aware of most of them.

A similar case is that of Oasis I think- obviously a huge deal in the UK, with constant rumours about them re-forming, constant stories about them 'headlining Glastonbury' each year etc. Every interview Noel Gallagher does he gets asked about it. Every single time. Every time he says "no", but the rumours keep going. There's really no point in him even opening his mouth about it anymore. If Axl was doing interviews I'm sure it would be the same.

It doesn't really matter if Axl gave more interviews...

They wouldn't be allowed to ask him certain questions anyway. You think Eddie Trunk and Jimmy Kimmel just chose not to ask him specifically about Slash etc?

I'm in the camp that they should have addressed this by now... only if its 100 percent not in the cards. If they are hammering out the details then of course, but I don't think it's the smart play to let this go on and on in the established media if the philosophy is still "not in this lifetime".

[Ginger King]

People are starting to see the silence as some sort of confirmation.... and that could be a problem if there's no truth to the rumors, that's my point.

It's the usual. You're saying something without saying anything.  

Even if he went out and said "no", some wouldn't believe him. On top of that, it might create other issues down the line.


What is the reunion anyway? Everybody seems to have an idea what it's supposed to be. For some, it's the AFD5, for others it's Axl, Duff and Slash. Then, others assume it's the UYI touring line up and so on.

Simply denying something isn't enough I think.... So in the end, it might not be the way to go at this point.


Anyway, regarding tomorrow. It's all been assumed by the media in Britain. Obviously the festivals love the extra attention.
I'm not gonna be upset if nothing happens. I know better.

/jarmo

But he (forcefully) denied reunion rumors in the past.  And those statements were enough, correct?  Why is it hard to acknowledge that it's different this time around?  At the very least, by remaining silent he's at least giving the impression that it's under consideration.  I refuse to believe for one second that he has no idea that these rumors exist.

[FreddieJames]

I still don't understand why that would be a problem. Like someone said before: if someone tells other people I am gay and then some guy comes up to me and tries to hit on me and I tell him 'thank you, but I am not gay' should he then be angry with me? Or the dude that told him I was gay?

I would consider it a problem if they now announce they're discussing a reunion and it blows up before it ever materializes. Because THEN there would be an actual reason to be disappointed.

I think analogies regarding yours (or anyone's) sexuality aren't particularly apt..and might be a bit sensitive as a jumping off point for further discussion.   So lets change direction a bit.

Say you were dating a girl.

You broke up. It was messy. For the next few years, through friends and other contacts, you basically hurled insults at each other and talked about how terrible the entire experience was.

One day, she tells a mutual friend that you're friends again, and it's cool.

A rumor starts that you're back together.

You decide it's stupid to address it.  So you don't.  You remain silent.

But...all of a sudden, everyone you know, everywhere you go insists that you're back together.  People report seeing you back together.  They report that you're about to get engaged. They're making you out to be this huge power couple that's going to light the world on fire, bring about world peace, and cure cancer...and that's just in your first few weeks together.

It starts to seep into your work place.  Your boss was a big fan of her...and seems to be implying increased professional opportunities for you if its true.  But only if you bring her to the company Christmas party (and every subsequent work function).

It starts to effect your personal life.  You can't get another date (though you're actually still looking) because everyone thinks you're back with your ex (and then think you're an ass for hitting on them). You have friends who you normally hang out with who now won't come around because they THINK you're back with your ex, and they're NOT fans, or are afraid they'll get pushed out my this new relationship rekindling.

In short, it's starting to effect almost every portion of your life.

Do you still stay silent?  Do you still not comment?  This isn't just any rumor, anymore. It's something a little bigger.

I mean...if so, that's fine. Your choice. Or if there's actually a chance of working things out with this girl, and you're not sure...again, that's fine.

But there are effects from that.  And there are assumptions that are going to get made..not just from your friends, but potentially from some prospective clients or business contacts.  There is an AWFUL lot of fallout from not commenting if the rumors are completely without basis.  And when people find out the truth..yeah, they're gonna be ticked AT YOU.  Because you could have set the record straight, at any point, and chose not to.  Again, you might have had your reasons for going that route..but now you're left trying to explain, and then untangle, down the road.  And there are STILL going to be folks who don't get the message and find out in the most uncomfortable and inconvenient way possible, whatever that is.

I understand your analogy, however, mine was more about who's to blame for the misinformation being sent around.

I understand and agree that clarification would make things way more clear (derp) to us. However, I truly believe that if there was something to say they would. Do you have any idea how many contracts and lawyers would go into a reunion? It's almost impossible for us to imagine that. That takes at least a year. And we don't even know for sure how long they have been talking to each other. Maybe it's just since this year. And maybe they jammed a bit. Maybe. Maybe they liked that. But to go from there to a full on reunion tour worldwide? It would take way more time than this. So I honestly don't think there's anything to be said.

And yes, I kind of think that if it would be a firm 'no never' from Axl's side it would be smart to come out and say something. But him not saying anything doesn't mean something IS going to happen.....

[pilferk]

[
I understand your analogy, however, mine was more about who's to blame for the misinformation being sent around.

I sort of addressed that at the end. At the outset, it's the rumormonger.

3 months into it, when you're still saying nothing, and the effects are creeping in.....your associates are likely going to blame you when if it ends up being totally untrue from the outset.  Now, if you say "we were trying to work something out, but it just didn't"....that's different.  And people would be much more accomodating, both of your silence at the time, and of the eventual outcome.

I understand and agree that clarification would make things way more clear (derp) to us. However, I truly believe that if there was something to say they would. Do you have any idea how many contracts and lawyers would go into a reunion? It's almost impossible for us to imagine that. That takes at least a year. And we don't even know for sure how long they have been talking to each other. Maybe it's just since this year. And maybe they jammed a bit. Maybe. Maybe they liked that. But to go from there to a full on reunion tour worldwide? It would take way more time than this. So I honestly don't think there's anything to be said.

As i said, IF that's the case...they're working on something, even if just marginally...I agree, silence is their best course.

If, though, NONE of this has ANY basis in reality...nothing is happening, nothing is being talked about, and Axl's position is still "not as long as I'm alive"...that's something different.

And yes, I kind of think that if it would be a firm 'no never' from Axl's side it would be smart to come out and say something. But him not saying anything doesn't mean something IS going to happen.....

Agreed.  Silence doesn't ensure outcome.

[ice cream sand pig]

im gonna go ahead and place my bet. 10000 imaginary yen that friday will not be the day. hope no one is too disappointed if the rumors turn out to be false. saying that in a not sarcastic way.. some people seem really pumped for this.  id hate to see you walkin out there, out in the rain.

[pilferk]

Yeah- you're probably right. Analogy was just something I pulled out of thin air (apologies for any offence!) but yours is probably better.

To be clear, I'm NOT offended.  But it's hard to frame the discussion using your example, because you have to be mindful of HOW you frame it, and the language/characterizations you use, so you DON'T cause offense.  That makes it a tangled up mess.  Just figured framing it as a messy break up removed some of that sensitivity.

Another issue of course is- is Axl even aware of these rumours? We don't even know he goes on the internet. It wouldn't surprise me if he's in a bubble and is not even aware of most of them.

A similar case is that of Oasis I think- obviously a huge deal in the UK, with constant rumours about them re-forming, constant stories about them 'headlining Glastonbury' each year etc. Every interview Noel Gallagher does he gets asked about it. Every single time. Every time he says "no", but the rumours keep going. There's really no point in him even opening his mouth about it anymore. If Axl was doing interviews I'm sure it would be the same.

I think, in terms of Axl knowing....maybe early on, he didn't.  But at this point, its sort of everywhere.  My twitter feed sees at least one article every day, from various press (not GnR focuses) sources.  One of the sites has even set up a "GnR rumor meter" to gauge likelihood.   We've passed the point where this is an obscure internet rumor and gotten to critical mass (probably a while ago).  I think it's pretty likely he knows, even if he's not seeing the stuff directly.  Someone has made him aware.

With Oasis...this is a little different.  This isn't a press site fishing for information.  It's various sources, of varying credibility, all saying it's going to happen.  I think that's the difference than just fielding the same question in interview after interview.  

[pilferk]

im gonna go ahead and place my bet. 10000 imaginary yen that friday will not be the day. hope no one is too disappointed if the rumors turn out to be false. saying that in a not sarcastic way.. some people seem really pumped for this.  id hate to see you walkin out there, out in the rain.

I'm with you.  I'll put up an imaginary bottle of Jack (actually, it's a real bottle, but I'm not sharing it!!) that tomorrow is not the day.

[Spirit]

I'm still curious enough that I'll check out the Reading Festival website tomorrow morning.

[ice cream sand pig]

im gonna go ahead and place my bet. 10000 imaginary yen that friday will not be the day. hope no one is too disappointed if the rumors turn out to be false. saying that in a not sarcastic way.. some people seem really pumped for this.  id hate to see you walkin out there, out in the rain.

I'm with you.  I'll put up an imaginary bottle of Jack (actually, it's a real bottle, but I'm not sharing it!!) that tomorrow is not the day.

alright! anyone else want to place some bets? im not willing to bet my welcome to the jingle shirt though, so dont ask! that sob is mine!

[ice cream sand pig]

I'm still curious enough that I'll check out the Reading Festival website tomorrow morning.

oh, im definitely curious. i have to wait till saturday now that ive travelled through time to the future (japan is a day ahead of america). ive been trying to find lazer but i think he got lost in the bend of time. i doubt anyone remembers youre the man now dog, let alone the specific one im referring to. or chrono trigger for that matter!

[jarmo]

But he (forcefully) denied reunion rumors in the past.  And those statements were enough, correct?  Why is it hard to acknowledge that it's different this time around?  At the very least, by remaining silent he's at least giving the impression that it's under consideration.  I refuse to believe for one second that he has no idea that these rumors exist.

Yes he did.
That was a one off that, once again, people assumed he would have to do, and thus reuniting the old band.


I don't doubt that he knows about it.

All I'm saying is that until you know damn sure what's going to happen, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to start denying or confirming things.
I know, this only makes sense to some of us. The rest of you just want an update.

And if you're still trying to figure things out. it makes even less sense to talk about it.




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

I don't think anybody is looking for weekly updates ... like how far along or how close they are to an agreement.

Just put the kibosh on it if it's not even a consideration.