Is a reunion (hybrid or otherwise) our best chance of new music?

[D-GenerationX]

You know, when somebody says something to one fan/person, it doesn't mean it applies to all of us.

Very true.

But let's say you are making a list.  Two columns.  One for all the passive aggressive (and some outright aggressive) little shots at the fans, the media, the universe. 

The other one for the times they seemed to appreciate the fans and did right by them.

How does that list look? 

[sky dog]

D-Gen, look at it this way, everything already recorded and unreleased is Axl's and Universal's property. Gnr material is Gnr material. Thus, if Axl and Uni want to "modify" existing material with Slash and Duff, whoever, they can do it. You assume S and D would want it all to be their own but we don't know what they have heard or what they think about it. They may think it is great and want to make it better. In the end, they are Axl's melodies and Axl's lyrics so they have a solid foundation at this point. If I am them, I would be happy to have a listen and realize the groundwork has been laid.

I think it would come down to how much they were involved in it, honestly.

I would think it would have to be a hell of a lot more than the few copy and paste riffs over top of finished songs from other people, like we saw with Ron.

Basically, they would need to have something of stamp on whatever came out.  Is Slash really going to be excited about shoehorning a few riffs over top of the myriad people Axl attempted to replace him with?  He's going to be little more than a complementary piece to Robin Finck?

maybe...we don't know how they feel

[jarmo]

Very true.

But let's say you are making a list.  Two columns.  One for all the passive aggressive (and some outright aggressive) little shots at the fans, the media, the universe. 

The other one for the times they seemed to appreciate the fans and did right by them.

How does that list look? 

Why would you need to make this list? What's the purpose?



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Why would you need to make this list? What's the purpose?

If the proposition is put forward that the management does not "hate the fans", let's take a look at their collected body of work and see if that stands up.

Unless, you already know how that's going to go.  Then you start asking why we should even look at it.  Kill that baby in the crib.

[D-GenerationX]

And just for the record, I don't think they "hate the fans" as much as I just think they are terrible at that part of the gig.

Quick example : "Complaints, complaints, complaints..."  Helping or hurting, something like that? 

That last batch of tweets about no news being good news and how everyone is a journalist?  Helping or hurting?

In a wider body of work, something like that that might even go unnoticed.  When its just about the only thing you have said publically all year?  Its not going to go well for you.

[Wooody]

And just for the record, I don't think they "hate the fans" as much as I just think they are terrible at that part of the gig.

Quick example : "Complaints, complaints, complaints..."  Helping or hurting, something like that? 

That last batch of tweets about no news being good news and how everyone is a journalist?  Helping or hurting?

In a wider body of work, something like that that might even go unnoticed.  When its just about the only thing you have said publically all year?  Its not going to go well for you.

Those tweets are bullshit. The thing about the journalists is just Axl complaining (. Or whoever is tweeting.) And its not even a real sentence, those tweets dont bring anything to the table.

[jarmo]

If the proposition is put forward that the management does not "hate the fans", let's take a look at their collected body of work and see if that stands up.

Unless, you already know how that's going to go.  Then you start asking why we should even look at it.  Kill that baby in the crib.

Really? To prove that the management of a band doesn't hate the band's fans, you need to provide a list? Wow.
I thought the opposite would be true.

How naive of me.

Quick example : "Complaints, complaints, complaints..."  Helping or hurting, something like that? 

Quick question: Did you feel personally attacked by that response to one person's comment, on a personal Instagram account?

Maybe you're just looking for reasons in any place you can find them and even if it wasn't even remotely aimed at you, you take it personally.
"The internet seems to be, a big garbage can". Remember that? Maybe you feel attacked by that too?


Maybe I'm the only GN'R fan who doesn't think every personal comment or reply to one fan is aimed at all.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Those tweets are bullshit. The thing about the journalists is just Axl complaining (. Or whoever is tweeting.) And its not even a real sentence, those tweets dont bring anything to the table.

Like I said, were they helping or hurting?

Once you type it out, before you hit send, do you even make a value assessment on that?

How many times do we hear people tell athletes to think before they tweet?  Isn't this the same thing, really?

And as I said, where are all the great tweets that offset it?  Tattoo Tuesday and 'Welcome To The Jingle'?

Really?  That's what we are going with?

[jarmo]

Are you done complaining about the tweets?




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Really? To prove that the management of a band doesn't hate the band's fans, you need to provide a list?

No.  But you repeatedly take issue with why fans think that, do you not?

I think that would be the best way to establish that's the perception a lot of fans have.  And might even show you why that sentiment is out there.  You know, since you are so confused by it all.

I'm suggesting you aren't interested in a list or any sort of harder look at it because you already know how that is going to look, all laid bare.  And this whole "geez, where are you getting that" will be a harder sell.

To paraphrase a wise man that often tells me : you have your perception of events, and its all you want to accept.

[jarmo]

I do have a slight difficulty understanding why some fans think the management hates all fans because somebody replied to a comment on a personal Instagram account once!

Maybe "a lot" of you have that perception because you want to?

Axl kicked out idiots from shows, does that mean he wants to kick everybody attending out?
Where do you draw the line?

Poor you....


Regarding your whining about content on their social media. Is it possible somebody else likes that? Just because you and I don't really care all that much for tattoo pics, doesn't mean it's true for the rest of the world. I can see that, why can't you?

Why can't you see the reason for posting things on social media, and engaging some of your fans? Why is that such a crime in your book that you need to keep complaining about it? Why? Why? 


/jarmo

[Wooody]

I do have a slight difficulty understanding why some fans think the management hates all fans because somebody replied to a comment on a personal Instagram account once!

Maybe "a lot" of you have that perception because you want to?

Axl kicked out idiots from shows, does that mean he wants to kick everybody attending out?
Where do you draw the line?

Poor you....


Regarding your whining about content on their social media. Is it possible somebody else likes that? Just because you and I don't really care all that much for tattoo pics, doesn't mean it's true for the rest of the world. I can see that, why can't you?

Why can't you see the reason for posting things on social media, and engaging some of your fans? Why is that such a crime in your book that you need to keep complaining about it? Why? Why? 


/jarmo

I know those questions are not for me 

And the previous post I made, was rather complaining that the tweet itself sounded like a complaint.

 I don't have a problem with GNR having social media accounts making superficial statements like Tattoo Tuesday, or posting pics of babies dressed in UYI t-shirts.
Like you said, some people enjoy that kind of thing, a lot of pics they post come from fans.

However, when there are Superficial posts or comments on what seems like serious matters, it is somehow disconcerting to see half sentences vaguely saying something but ultimately saying nothing.
The ''what happened to no news is good news'' was a good post, just letting fans things are ok I guess. But what followed was not even articulate,  Who was he talking about?, why did it seem like a frustrated post?
Who was he even talking to? The fans? If I could read lips? what would actually happen if I could read lips?  Those seemed like random drunken incoherent thoughts you would pick up if a radio of the mind actually existed.

And again, I don't care that much, but like someone else said it here, when you haven't posted anything of meaning in a long time, why finally do and say that?

To say Management hates fans is a bit extreme, but when you Cry Wolf it would be nice to have a notion of moral responsibility to follow through.

[EmilyGNR]

Oh look we are back to whining about the twitter account 

The airing of the (same repeated) grievances never stops around here, it's a year long festivus celebration

[jarmo]

However, when there are Superficial posts or comments on what seems like serious matters, it is somehow disconcerting to see half sentences vaguely saying something but ultimately saying nothing.
The ''what happened to no news is good news'' was a good post, just letting fans things are ok I guess. But what followed was not even articulate,  Who was he talking about?, why did it seem like a frustrated post?
Who was he even talking to? The fans? If I could read lips? what would actually happen if I could read lips?  Those seemed like random drunken incoherent thoughts you would pick up if a radio of the mind actually existed.

I think the main problem is that if you're convinced that the management dislikes you, you'll look for reasons to prove it. It's been brought up many times. People like to quote a reply to a comment on a Instagram post that had nothing to do with GN'R. It just shows how desperate some are to find these clues.


A silly joke, a tweet or something, and one person sees the hidden message in it about how he or she is actually hated by these people.
It seems like that's how it works. Unfortunately.

I don't know, it seems like I keep going around in circles here. But how come nobody ever takes into consideration the other side?
You don't like a tweet? Fine. Don't you think there was something that caused said tweet to be posted? Does that matter? Was the person asking about GN'R on a personal Instagram page really in the right place?

I've seen plenty of honest opinions about the lack of updates over the years. At some point it becomes boring. I get that it's amazing that there's interest. Awesome! Yay! Hooray!
But it still doesn't make all the "we need updates" cries anymore original.....

If a person gets bombarded on a personal Instagram account with questions about something else, and then replies to one person, it doesn't mean it's meant as some public service announcement or press release.


I don't know, it's a Twitter account. It's not necessarily a life and death issue. I didn't feel targeted.
Just like I didn't feel targeted by Axl comparing the Internet to a garbage can or when he made fun of the people with their honest opinions.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

As I believe I said earlier, when it comes to TB, I see it more as a case of incompetence than malice.

Its just that, while I personally don't feel any malice, I'm not blind to the fact that's a big perception out there.

I don't have to share an opinion to be blind that opinion is out there.

[D-GenerationX]

If a person gets bombarded on a personal Instagram account with questions about something else, and then replies to one person, it doesn't mean it's meant as some public service announcement or press release.

But its viewed that way, absent them ever getting off their ass to give a public statement.

That's the part you either legitimately don't see, or pretend not to see because confronting that is awkward.

[jarmo]

It's viewed that way because you want to!

"I don't like management. Oh look there's another reason I'm so right! Yay me!".

And yet you wonder why they don't give you specifics on every single thing you're wrong about.


I see many of the same things you see. Sometimes perhaps more than you see.
I probably don't see as much negativity as you see everywhere though. And I also don't see Axl in his tight little shorts like you do.



/jarmo

[Wooody]

If a person gets bombarded on a personal Instagram account with questions about something else, and then replies to one person, it doesn't mean it's meant as some public service announcement or press release.

But its viewed that way, absent them ever getting off their ass to give a public statement.

That's the part you either legitimately don't see, or pretend not to see because confronting that is awkward.

I understand the fact that you should respect management or Axl on the sole principle of ''You don't know what is going on behind the scenes'' that may be causing a specific, or a general scenario seem incompetent or  lazy in the eyes of the fans.

I can understand incompetent, and I can understand lazy, because I think every person on this earth has been labeled as such in one way or another by another person who may or may not be right.
I've been incompetent when there's too much pressure, when there are too many things to do, I miss something and then I fuck up. Its only human, Ive seemed lazy to people when my body can no longer go on and all I want is to sleep all day.

THose things are understandable.

But still, as a fan I also understand the complaints, because quite honestly GNR makes it easy for the fans to complaint. And that has happened even before the internet.
I guess, the main problem in this ''complaining'' debate, is that as a fan it is hard to come here to discuss the music and not discuss the business side of things.

Ive been registered in this site for a long time, but I come by when there's stuff happening, and for a while it makes me revisit the music, old bootlegs, stories, interviews,  Chinese Democracy, which strangely enough gets better when the years go by and the expectations are left behind.
When Im done with my share of revisiting I'll log off for a bit. But the reunion thing keeps me here? somehow waiting to see what happens next?.. which is why I say, GNR has a bit of a responsibility towards fans, which is not the same as saying GNR owes me something.

IF the rumors are not true, shoot them down. I would've taken a leave from the board already, maybe !

But the haze is still there, so I'm still here.

[D-GenerationX]

But still, as a fan I also understand the complaints, because quite honestly GNR makes it easy for the fans to complaint. And that has happened even before the internet.
I guess, the main problem in this ''complaining'' debate, is that as a fan it is hard to come here to discuss the music and not discuss the business side of things.

Very much agreed.

I think they make a lot of their own problems through inaction and poor communication, then play the misunderstood martyr card.  A torch a disturbing amount of fans are willing to pick up and carry, in my opinion.

If there is one argument I hate with this band, its this alleged premise they just have the worst luck and, damn the universe, they just can't get a break.

That's bullshit.  At some point, you have to make your own breaks.

[jarmo]

But still, as a fan I also understand the complaints, because quite honestly GNR makes it easy for the fans to complaint. And that has happened even before the internet.
I guess, the main problem in this ''complaining'' debate, is that as a fan it is hard to come here to discuss the music and not discuss the business side of things.

Oh, I don't disagree. But I don't think it's about GN'R. It's how some people live their lives.

It's just easier to get your complaints heard in 2015 compared to say 1995.


I'll give you an example. Imagine if this was 1997. "We want updates".
That wasn't a complaint that could be made in 1997? Of course it was. But that was before most fan forums, social media and constant news about anything and everything.



If you want to discuss the so called business side. you have to remember one thing, you can't know everything. And no, I'm not saying I know everything or even close to everything. That's why you don't see me questioning the band and their management about every decision made. Also it helps if you manage to have an open mind instead of getting all upset if it appears you don't know what the hell you're talking about. 




/jarmo