Do we as Guns N Roses fans have it that bad?

[D-GenerationX]

Right, but at whose expense?  That's my overall philosophy.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in principle, but really, who is truly affected (and I mean directly affected) by Axl's "wasted career"?  If Axl's band members weighed in on the subject (and I'm sure they could), I'd give them more credence.  But not people on a message board who feel like their lives have been slighted by his inactivity.

Oh, I'd have absolutely loved to get a few words, off the record, from the guys who played on CD and how they thought it was all handled.

But I agree with you that they would have a bigger beef than any fan.

I'm not directly affected.  Its just a bummer and I have no problem saying so.

[OscarAxl22]

I find it mildly amusing that the answer from our great leader on here is that "some people just like to whinge & moan".. this statement gets used for anything that he refuses to achnowledge.

For example... Guns have only released one album in 20 + years.. "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"...

How come Axl and management dont make any effort to keep the hardcore fans updated... "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"

etc etc etc

[jarmo]

Well, I am that person.  But Jarmo gets all chapped if its ever mentioned.

Yeah, it's been what, almost 13 years?
Guess what, I was in Portland, ME in 2006. I went there on a train and Greyhound.

I had tickets to a show in 2001. I had tickets to a Snakepit show in 2000...
It's not like these things affect me over a decade later. That's just me.



Bridge brings up good points which puts your act in perspective...
Not that you'd admit to anything.

I find it mildly amusing that the answer from our great leader on here is that "some people just like to whinge & moan".. this statement gets used for anything that he refuses to achnowledge.

For example... Guns have only released one album in 20 + years.. "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"...

How come Axl and management dont make any effort to keep the hardcore fans updated... "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"

etc etc etc

Your sarcasm, condescending tone etc etc. are noted.

I'm nobody's leader. Never been about that at all. So, not sure what you're after. Maybe you can explain yourself.



Your whining about all things GN'R really is helping isn't it?
Just a FYI, it's not like you are privy to some secret the rest of us don't know about the number of albums released or the amount of updates you want. We know! We are aware of the discography. Who are you repeating these things for?

Why don't you just read what I said and prove me wrong? Instead of these condescending generalizations? That's the thing with you guys. You want to discuss but only on your terms. As soon as it's possible, you turn to this or just ignore the topic like nothing happened.


/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

For example... Guns have only released one album in 20 + years.. "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"...

Well, "you can't please everybody".

This apparently counts as on topic answer.  Apparently. 

No follow ups, please.  Thanks in advance.

[jarmo]

Unlike you, I answer questions asked. You're the last person who should try to act smug. 




/jarmo

[OscarAxl22]

Well, I am that person.  But Jarmo gets all chapped if its ever mentioned.

Yeah, it's been what, almost 13 years?
Guess what, I was in Portland, ME in 2006. I went there on a train and Greyhound.

I had tickets to a show in 2001. I had tickets to a Snakepit show in 2000...
It's not like these things affect me over a decade later. That's just me.



Bridge brings up good points which puts your act in perspective...
Not that you'd admit to anything.

I find it mildly amusing that the answer from our great leader on here is that "some people just like to whinge & moan".. this statement gets used for anything that he refuses to achnowledge.

For example... Guns have only released one album in 20 + years.. "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"...

How come Axl and management dont make any effort to keep the hardcore fans updated... "yeah but some of you just like to whinge and moan"

etc etc etc

Your sarcasm, condescending tone etc etc. are noted.

Your whining about all things GN'R really is helping isn't it?
Just a FYI, it's not like you are privy to some secret the rest of us don't know about the number of albums released or the amount of updates you want. We know! We are aware of the discography. Who are you repeating these things for?



/jarmo

Just trying to project my happy whinging attitude.... maybe i didnt include enough smileys in my post... here.. ive included some for you.. just so you know im in a good mood.  

now.... ill address your post.

Im not repeating anything for anyone... its just that anytime someone mentions a gripe your first instinct is to go into defence mode.. which includes a couple of stock standard answers... we know what those are. And to a lot of people.. it looks really silly. I am sorry if that upsets you... but the fact remains, a large percentage of the hardcore fan base of this band have a lot of serious gripes. A lot of people have articulated their point of view and constructed it in a way that most proponents could still acknowledge certain points, but you aren't capable of this. You just fight the good fight no matter what. Admirable... ill give you that.

Here is a question... has relentlessly crusading against any relevant point brought up (that may be a negative towards guns) ever been a victory for you? Why not just acknowledge it.. and then we can move on. Where has being ignorant to the hardcore fan base got anyone? If Guns themselves perhaps addressed a few of these points and provided some clarity on things, then perhaps these issues would be understood by people like myself, Degen sofine and the rest of the dissenting fanbase.. etc etc etc

I know you will take this post as insult and it will be noted somewhere.. but i find it a relevant question to ask.

[D-GenerationX]

Unlike you, I answer questions asked.

With answers so stock and boilerplate, any one of us could log on as you for a week, play the part, and no one would notice.

Let's hold off on the medal ceremony just yet.

[jarmo]

Im not repeating anything for anyone... its just that anytime someone mentions a gripe your first instinct is to go into defence mode.. which includes a couple of stock standard answers... we know what those are. And to a lot of people.. it looks really silly. I am sorry if that upsets you... but the fact remains, a large percentage of the hardcore fan base of this band have a lot of serious gripes. A lot of people have articulated their point of view and constructed it in a way that most proponents could still acknowledge certain points, but you aren't capable of this. You just fight the good fight no matter what. Admirable... ill give you that.

Did you read my first post?

You can't please everybody.
Is that wrong? So tell me why you think that statement is out of line?

My second post was pointing out how some of you have managed to turn multiple discussion into the same old complaints that you could post any week of the year. The lack of updates, albums and whatever. Am I wrong?


I really don't care if anything I do looks silly. Sorry.

Here is a question... has relentlessly crusading against any relevant point brought up (that may be a negative towards guns) ever been a victory for you? Why not just acknowledge it.. and then we can move on. Where has being ignorant to the hardcore fan base got anyone? If Guns themselves perhaps addressed a few of these points and provided some clarity on things, then perhaps these issues would be understood by people like myself, Degen sofine and the rest of the dissenting fanbase.. etc etc etc

I know you will take this post as insult and it will be noted somewhere.. but i find it a relevant question to ask.

Crusading, great leader. I suggest you stop with these lame attempts at insults.

Victory? You're the one in a topic saying "Hey, things aren't as bad as they seem" telling everybody they're way worse. to me and some others, it just makes some of you look like little entitled crybabies. Sorry for being so blunt. Before you get upset, I'm not saying you are entitled.

"Oh no, we didn't get an update". "Boohoo, they didn't tell us they care about us".
One minute it's not serious, it's only a rock band. But the next you guys get upset over tweets and shit like that. WTF?

Who is ignorant to the hardcore fanbase? I met many of them at the shows I attended. They didn't seem upset. Why is that?
I think this is yet another case of "this is what works for me, so I'll pretend is true for others and say it's true for all fans".

With answers so stock and boilerplate, any one of us could log on as you for a week, play the part, and no one would notice.

Let's hold off on the medal ceremony just yet.

Oh really?
That's creepy.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo, I bet you think you could post as me for a week too.

We should try it.  See who nails the better homage.

[jarmo]

Sorry, not into acting. I prefer to be myself.



/jarmo

[OscarAxl22]

Im not repeating anything for anyone... its just that anytime someone mentions a gripe your first instinct is to go into defence mode.. which includes a couple of stock standard answers... we know what those are. And to a lot of people.. it looks really silly. I am sorry if that upsets you... but the fact remains, a large percentage of the hardcore fan base of this band have a lot of serious gripes. A lot of people have articulated their point of view and constructed it in a way that most proponents could still acknowledge certain points, but you aren't capable of this. You just fight the good fight no matter what. Admirable... ill give you that.

Did you read my first post?

You can't please everybody.
Is that wrong? So tell me why you think that statement is out of line?

My second post was pointing out how some of you have managed to turn multiple discussion into the same old complaints that you could post any week of the year. The lack of updates, albums and whatever. Am I wrong?


I really don't care if anything I do looks silly. Sorry.

Here is a question... has relentlessly crusading against any relevant point brought up (that may be a negative towards guns) ever been a victory for you? Why not just acknowledge it.. and then we can move on. Where has being ignorant to the hardcore fan base got anyone? If Guns themselves perhaps addressed a few of these points and provided some clarity on things, then perhaps these issues would be understood by people like myself, Degen sofine and the rest of the dissenting fanbase.. etc etc etc

I know you will take this post as insult and it will be noted somewhere.. but i find it a relevant question to ask.

Crusading, great leader. I suggest you stop with these lame attempts at insults.

Victory? You're the one in a topic saying "Hey, things aren't as bad as they seem" telling everybody they're way worse. to me and some others, it just makes some of you look like little entitled crybabies. Sorry for being so blunt. Before you get upset, I'm not saying you are entitled.

"Oh no, we didn't get an update". "Boohoo, they didn't tell us they care about us".
One minute it's not serious, it's only a rock band. But the next you guys get upset over tweets and shit like that. WTF?

Who is ignorant to the hardcore fanbase? I met many of them at the shows I attended. They didn't seem upset. Why is that?
I think this is yet another case of "this is what works for me, so I'll pretend is true for others and say it's true for all fans".

With answers so stock and boilerplate, any one of us could log on as you for a week, play the part, and no one would notice.

Let's hold off on the medal ceremony just yet.

Oh really?
That's creepy.




/jarmo

Maybe it what works for me? I'll take that on board,. My expectation of the band isnt that great.

I am not one of the people who is crying for a new album every second summer. I dont expect that. Hell... im not even one of these people who cries about the set-list that much... that doesnt overly bother me too much either. All i am asking, as a paying fan, who buys my ticket, buys the shirts, Beer mugs, the albums etc is that the management give a little back in terms of updates. That is what works for me. If you go and ask other hardcore fans if they are happy with it all... maybe they are... i dont know. I know that others on here share my major gripe.. which is simply communication.

The thread is.. do we have it that bad?

I answered, in terms of the music we have got... NO.... its timeless.. i love it, its all i care for.. but thats just one part of it. The short sightedness of the bands management to make GNR accessible to the fans is a big red cross aginst it. I have said repeatedly, people want to hear from their favorite band, why hasnt there been any updates on what happened to BBF, ASHBA.... etc.. Why has it taken so long for merchandise on the site to just start kicking into overdive? Why cant any hardcore fan buy a fucking Axl Rose signed piece of official memorabilia?

Listen, i come from a business background, so these things all come fairly natural to me in terms of communications, and marketing.. and yes i see a lot of flaws.. basic ones.. i just hope they get addressed.. if it was... i wouldnt be moaning.

Do we have it THAT bad? no... i will live my life happy.. is it frustrating that basic things arent available to the fan group.. yes.

Note, i only post here because i give a shit about the band deeply.. and Axl. As do others. I just hope we as fans can get a bit given back. And for FFS...ask Fernando to get some signed memorabilia on the site.... all i want is a signed fucking Axl Rose Picture for my new lounge room that i know is legit rather than trawling ebay for stuff we cant trust. ;-)

 

 

[jarmo]

All i am asking, as a paying fan, who buys my ticket, buys the shirts, Beer mugs, the albums etc is that the management give a little back in terms of updates. That is what works for me. If you go and ask other hardcore fans if they are happy with it all... maybe they are... i dont know. I know that others on here share my major gripe.. which is simply communication.

Ok. Fair "complaint". Let's say feedback.

Let me ask you this regarding your feedback. Are you aware that, if not all of us, then most of us, would love more of everything? Including updates?

If you are, which I hope, does it make sense to you that when you post your feedback regarding the lack of updates for the umpteenth time, some of us have seen this same feedback for years and it still hasn't really changed anything?

I have said repeatedly, people want to hear from their favorite band, why hasnt there been any updates on what happened to BBF, ASHBA.... etc.. Why has it taken so long for merchandise on the site to just start kicking into overdive? Why cant any hardcore fan buy a fucking Axl Rose signed piece of official memorabilia?

Listen, i come from a business background, so these things all come fairly natural to me in terms of communications, and marketing.. and yes i see a lot of flaws.. basic ones.. i just hope they get addressed.. if it was... i wouldnt be moaning.

All of these questions, you could assume answers for. If you were so inclined.

Let me show you how:
Q: Why don't they update fans on a guitarist leaving?
A: Maybe because they don't have a solution yet, and when they do, they'll say so.

How bad would this look? "We lost a guitar player, we don't have any other news". Is that the kind of update you're longing for?


If you can make that jump, maybe you'd feel better about it? Who knows.

Why won't they sell Axl signatures? Well, maybe he doesn't sign a lot of stuff. And when he did, they had a fan club contest for them. Also, I think they did sell some kind of card with his signature a while ago. So yes, you could have bought it.
Edited to add: http://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2014/07/Roseauto.jpg


Why did it take so long for merchandise? Maybe legal issues? Licensing?

I'm not a business expert, or marketing expert but I still managed to think of plausible reasons for your feedback.


See, now you managed to post something worthwhile instead of the silly attempts at insults and generalizations.




/jarmo

[OscarAxl22]

Ok, baby steps here.... but I'll try to be pro-active here and rather than "whinge", i will see if we can get something moving on "one small detail" that would help both sides of this equation. .... here is a question.

When Fernando Returns, (i am assuming he will be back on here at some stage shortly to provide whatever update he was intending) is it possible that he will hang around long enough to answer a few quick questions and see if he can get something happening on one of them.

Here goes.

I am an avid collector of memorabilia. I have all sorts of Sporting stuff that was acquired through official channels so i KNOW that the signatures are legit and they look great, one of my major disapointments is not being able to acquire a legit piece of Axl memorabilia, yet if something was available on the official site.. id spend the money in a heart beat. . Is it possible, that GNR's marketing guru (Fernando or otherwise), could look at the possibilty of doing a run of signed memorabilia. This could be a limited edition run of say 1000 prints. stick it on the website... if they look fantastic.. im sure they'd sell like hot-cakes amongst hardcore gnr fans.. It would be great. Just like i buy any new t-shirt i like.. id be wrapped. I cant be the only person who would buy something like this?

So.. is it possible that this idea could be raised with Fenando... i just cannot see any losers in this idea. I really cant.   

[jarmo]

I don't know if you saw it, but he already did that: http://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2014/07/Roseauto.jpg



/jarmo

[OscarAxl22]

I don't know if you saw it, but he already did that: http://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2014/07/Roseauto.jpg



/jarmo

Wasnt that a promotion that you had to actually win the card?

I am just speaking about real fans being able to purchase this stuff on the website ongoing...

anyway... i just wanted to throw it out there. 

[jarmo]

I think it was a limited edition thing, so maybe there was a lottery involved.

Regarding your other feedback, I already addressed most of it in my previous post.




/jarmo

[ice cream sand pig]

bridge made some great points. ive said similar things. its your choice to follow the band. nobody makes you. they are artists. not doctors. you dont need them. placing expctations on them is silly. they are not under some contract with us. 

what this thread reminds me of is when the purpose of the stay of execution name being published was revealed. jaeball, and maybe a few others, were initially upset because axl was trying to save some dudes lives instead of giving them some kind of update. it was like, seriously guys? is an update really more importantant than trying to stop some guys from being executed?

its importantant to put things in perspective. its like the whole "a watched pot never boils" thing. except youre not even going to cook your dinner in this pot. its just some pot that music comes out of. i like pot. the end.

[D-GenerationX]

bridge made some great points. ive said similar things. its your choice to follow the band. nobody makes you. they are artists. not doctors. you dont need them. placing expctations on them is silly. they are not under some contract with us. 

All correct. 

But if asked your opinion, you can't comment?  Is your right to offer an opinion based on what that opinion is?

That's where you lose people, I think.  That where the cult talk, and some of the other disparaging descriptions come from.

You don't have to agree with a dissenting opinion, but to live in such fear of it even being expressed?  Kind of odd.

[Virolec]

It's a bit curious, this thing about being a fan of one particular band.  I mean, I would say I'm a fan of several bands - Guns N' Roses among them.  I'm not an Iron Maiden fan who shakes his head sadly when looking at Guns N' Roses, and I'm not a Guns N' Roses fan who looks with bitter jealousy at the way Iron Maiden is run.  If a band I like releases an album I don't like, I don't need to keep listening to it and resenting it for not being up to scratch (Turisas, I'm looking in your direction...), I can just listen to something else.

The idea of being part of one fanbase is something I really only do with football (soccer).  For my sins I'm an Airdrieonians fan, and always will be.  When they play awful football, when they get relegated, when they sign dud players... I'm still getting my season ticket and going to the games.  I might look wistfully at how other clubs are run, or wish we had a chairman like such-and-such a team, or a player from another team and so on, but Airdrie's my team and will be until I die.  It would never occur to me to support another team.


So, no, I don't feel hard done by as a Guns N' Roses fan.  I've got some records from them, and I enjoy them.  If they come to my country, I'd like to see them play (whenever they've been before I've had either the money or the time, but never both).  I could not care less about autographed merchandise or Twitter.  That's not to say I'm pleased with the way the band is run, or their rate of releasing material - who possibly could be?  None of us, if asked how they would want Guns N' Roses to be, would say "Just as it is now, that suits me grand."  Most of my rock-fan friends think they've become a complete joke.  They may be right about that.  

The thing is... I don't feel entitled to more from them.  I don't feel that I'm suffering.  Guns N' Roses don't hold me captive to torment me with their indolence - they're just a band I like who don't do much that I can see.  But it is frustrating to know that so much talent has gone to waste, so much potential has been unfulfilled.  The brilliant, brilliant chemistry of the classic line-up is gone.  It burnt out before its time.  They might have ruled the roost for a decade or more, but they didn't.  The albums they could have done when they were all still young men with creative fire and excitement and that magical connection will never be made, and will never be heard.  Even if there is some kind of a reunion, and even if it does lead to new material, I don't think any of us would expect them to recapture what they had and threw away.  Axl's disappearances and intermittent touring for a ten year period have denied us, effectively, a decade of live performances by a great performer.  And even now that he has come back and started touring more frequently, the sad fact is that his physical peak is now behind him.

I mentioned Iron Maiden earlier.  Let's cast our minds back to Rock in Rio, 2001.  After more than a decade out of the band, Maiden's best guitarist, and one of their most important songwriters, Adrian Smith, is back on board.  So, too, is singer Bruce Dickinson,  who had quit the band in 1993 - effectively restoring their classic 80s lineup, and retaining Janick Gers, an entertaining performer and excellent songwriter.  They are playing the final show of their Brave New World tour, promoting an album that marks not only the return of Smith and Dickinson, but a return to form as songwriters, following what most fans and critics regard as a pretty lacklustre decade (certainly in comparison to the eighties).  The show is a triumph, and is subsequently released as a live album and DVD.  Since then, the reformed Iron Maiden (though they had never actually split up) has released another four studio albums, the most recent a double album, in addition to Brave New World.  All of them have attracted favourable critical attention, all of them show a band refusing to just rely on their 80s laurels, some charting better than they ever have done.  They've toured many times - sometimes doing "history" tours focusing on certain eras of their past, but also being so daring as to tour their 2006 album A Matter of Life and Death playing the whole album from start to finish, and saving a clutch of classics for the encores (can you imagine Guns N' Roses doing that with Chinese Democracy?).  They've released a handful of live albums and DVDs, have a pretty active media presence and new merchandise, for people who are into that kind of thing.  But in 2001, all of that lies in the future.

Also playing at that festival are Guns N' Roses, also on a comeback of sorts.  We don't need to go into what they've been up to since.

Now, we don't need to go into great detail into the contrast between what these two veteran bands have been up to since playing that festival almost fifteen years ago.  I know the circumstances are different.  But looking back, does anyone here not wish that Guns N' Roses had followed a more Iron Maiden-like trajectory?  

I don't feel hard done by.  I don't think that as a Guns N' Roses fan I've "got it bad".  I don't feel cheated, or robbed, or badly treated.  I don't feel entitled to anything.  I don't feel malice towards the band or their management.  I don't feel bitter, or let down.  

But I do sometimes feel frustrated by it all, and wistfully wonder what might have been...

[D-GenerationX]

That is a GREAT post, Virolec.

Iron Maiden was actually one of the exact bands I was thinking of making my fanbase comparison.

I really like Iron Maiden, but I like GNR's music more.  Always will.

Do I wish my fan experience following GNR was a more like the Iron Maiden fan's has been?

You bet your ass.