Do we as Guns N Roses fans have it that bad?

[D-GenerationX]

Kudos to the original poster for starting this topic to remind people it's not as bad as it seems.

The fact such a thread needs to be made in the first place is telling, though.

This fanbase has 47 variations on "its not that bad...if you think about it".

What is that?  Good?

Lot of other fanbases need this sort of pep talk or rationalizing about the situation?

[jarmo]

The fact such a thread needs to be made in the first place is telling, though.

Maybe it is telling about the mentality of some posters. You're right.
Look in the mirror. 




/jarmo

[raindog]

This has nothing to do with the merit of the music produced.  I'd wager any of us would say we like the GNR material more than we like other bands stuff.

To me, this question comes down to what other fanbase trades places with us?  And the answer, I would think, is no one.

Is there some other fanbase that wishes their band was run like this one?  Are there other fanbases that opine, that Axl...man, that dude has the right idea.

Who?  Who is saying that?

Completely agree on all but the first line I quoted. I don't know what someone would measure fandom in...fervour I guess, if that was quantifiable...but a lot of people I would wager are further down the ladder than saying Guns are their favorite band or that their music means the most to them. There are a lot of casual to moderate Guns fans who go to the forums simply because its the only way you hear anything (well, up until the recent reunion rumors) and because there's a certain grim fascination. It's a screwed up story and you can't help but wonder where, if anywhere, it goes from here.

Don't get me wrong, I love Axl, I think he's one of the best out there and there's been times in my life when a song of his has got me through the night. Seen the band many times in its various permutations and had some great times. But...and I don't know how to say this...I'm sorry honey, while you were away...there...*chokes back tears* there were others.

I do genuinely have sympathy for the people who love this band more than they love any other band, any film, any form of art and entertainment because there's a lot of them out there. It can't be easy wondering if you're ever going to get another album or even another song when it means that much to you.

[D-GenerationX]

The fact such a thread needs to be made in the first place is telling, though.

Maybe it is telling about the mentality of some posters. You're right.
Look in the mirror. 

Did I make this thread?  I think you just giving mad props to the person who did, not 5 posts ago.

No?

Oh well, GNR4LIFEJD.  Guess I'll just meet you at the mirror.  We must atone.

[jarmo]

Did I make this thread?  I think you just giving mad props to the person who did, not 5 posts ago.

No?

Oh well, GNR4LIFEJD.  Guess I'll just meet you at the mirror.  We must atone.

Once again, I'll explain logic to you.

People start whining -> somebody needs to sit them down, pat them on their heads and remind them they can't have candy every day.

There. That was the purpose of this thread.
So look in the mirror and you might see a reason why a thread like this had to be created.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

So look in the mirror and you might see a reason why a thread like this had to be created.

Because nothing happens with this "band".  That's why.

Unless you are suggesting we would ever see a thread like this if the band actually released stuff more than once a decade.  Are you suggesting that?

[jarmo]

Unless you are suggesting we would ever see a thread like this if the band actually released stuff more than once a decade.  Are you suggesting that?

Do I think you'd be a happier super fan if there'd been a new album between 2008 and now? No, honestly I don't.
Sorry.

Do you wanna know why? I'll tell you. We saw it in 2008-9. It didn't take that long for people to start asking/talking about the next album. It's human nature I guess.
So, I think no matter how many albums GN'R might have released, it wouldn't be good enough. Some would still want more, something different, somebody different or whatever.

Maybe you think there's a magical formula that would work for all, unfortunately I've been around long enough to know better.

I'd rather have the band do what they want, when they want, and believe in it, than to worry about pleasing fans. But that's just me. Maybe I'm just evil and hate all other fans! 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Do I think you'd be a happier super fan if there'd been a new album between 2008 and now? No, honestly I don't.
Sorry.

You are not a mind reader.  A statement like this is irrelevant.

Do you wanna know why? I'll tell you. We saw it in 2008-9. It didn't take that long for people to start asking/talking about the next album. It's human nature I guess.
So, I think no matter how many albums GN'R might have released, it wouldn't be good enough. Some would still want more, something different, somebody different or whatever.

And I was among them, these awful people? 

How would you know?  I didn't even start posting here until 2012 or so.  And you've consistently said you don't go other forums.  So how does this apply to me?

It doesn't.

Again, leave the clairvoyance to the Zoltar machine that makes people 'Big'.

[jarmo]

You are not a mind reader.  A statement like this is irrelevant.

No, you assume I'm not! 
But, we got a track record.

And I was among them, these awful people? 

How would you know?  I didn't even start posting here until 2012 or so.  And you've consistently said you don't go other forums.  So how does this apply to me?

It doesn't.

Again, leave the clairvoyance to the Zoltar machine that makes people 'Big'.

Didn't say they were awful. Just another one of your "poor us" generalizations.
You asked me a question, and I answered.
I have a a habit of doing that.

So I explained to you why I think some things would be pretty similar no matter what GN'R does, how many albums are released etc. etc. etc.
Another point, I think some are too concerned about their online appearance. Don't wanna be a fanboy! That also plays part in why I think the way I do regarding your question.

Hope this helps.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

So I explained to you why I think some things would be pretty similar no matter what GN'R does, how many albums are released etc. etc. etc.

Pretty consequence free statement, no?

Since this kind of thing doesn't, you know...actually happen, we really can't see if what you are saying would be proven accurate.  Can we?

And since it seems unlikely to happen in our lifetimes, I suppose you will always be able to cling to this.  What a break for you.

Now, if you're lucky, someone might fall for not that not see right though it. 

That person will never be, I'm afraid.  So good luck on the search.

[Ginger King]

Unless you are suggesting we would ever see a thread like this if the band actually released stuff more than once a decade.  Are you suggesting that?

Do I think you'd be a happier super fan if there'd been a new album between 2008 and now? No, honestly I don't.
Sorry.

Do you wanna know why? I'll tell you. We saw it in 2008-9. It didn't take that long for people to start asking/talking about the next album. It's human nature I guess.
So, I think no matter how many albums GN'R might have released, it wouldn't be good enough. Some would still want more, something different, somebody different or whatever.

Maybe you think there's a magical formula that would work for all, unfortunately I've been around long enough to know better.

I'd rather have the band do what they want, when they want, and believe in it, than to worry about pleasing fans. But that's just me. Maybe I'm just evil and hate all other fans! 

/jarmo

Jarmo, I?m somewhat confused by what your opinion is here.  Are you saying fans have it good because to think otherwise means you?re not a true fan, or are you saying that, regardless of what the situation is, there will always be unhappy people?  Obviously, you can never please everybody, but when is that ever the goal? 

[jarmo]

You asked a question, I answered.

Prove me wrong. Was Chinese Democracy the answer to all grievances? No.
Was the tour the magical answer to make all complaints disappear? No.

I got these facts to look at.
Don't like it? Sucks to be you I guess...

Jarmo, I?m somewhat confused by what your opinion is here.  Are you saying fans have it good because to think otherwise means you?re not a true fan, or are you saying that, regardless of what the situation is, there will always be unhappy people?  Obviously, you can never please everybody, but when is that ever the goal? 

Exactly, my opinion is that some (please note the word some) fans will never have it good enough. Always something.... That's my opinion based on over a decade reading posts on GN'R fan sites.

And therefore, a topic like this is sometimes needed. To remind those people of the good things.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo, I?m somewhat confused by what your opinion is here.  Are you saying fans have it good because to think otherwise means you?re not a true fan, or are you saying that, regardless of what the situation is, there will always be unhappy people?  Obviously, you can never please everybody, but when is that ever the goal? 

Never.  Its a statement of deflection.

"You can't please everybody" is true is most phases of life and pretty universally accepted.

Is it ever the answer to "hey, how come this band takes a decade to release an album"?

No.  No, its not.  Not now, not ever.

But that question has no good answer.  So then, we shift the conversation and change the subject. 

Or try to, anyway.

[LongGoneDay]

I think the sting from the disintegration of classic Guns lingers more so than other bands of their era, because Guns was our generations Rolling Stones. They were the last of their kind. No band has managed to even lift the torch since.

It seemed too soon.
Seemed they had plenty more in the tank.

I guess the upside could be that they have a very potent catalogue.
The Stones prime ended in the early to mid 70?s, and have been pumping out mostly forgettable albums since.
Same could be said about Aerosmith.

Would I prefer to have the option of more GN?R albums to listen to and decide for myself if I liked them or not?
Yea, but I guess if we are bending over backwards to find some silver linings in their possible premature demise, the potency of their limited discography could be one.

[Bodhi]

I've seen the band 14 times since 2002,  that is hardly a band that "sits around doing nothing."   Yes I think most of us would want more new music, I want a new song everyday, they are my favorite band.  But things are nowhere near as horrible as some of you make it out to be.  I suppose if all I did was sit and wait for GNR to release music it would be pretty bad, but there are a lot of bands out there, GNR is not the ONLY band that makes music, just the BEST one.  I went to about 200 other shows that Weren't GNR since 2002 as well, so I guess that kind of follows the "live your life " thing.  I check this site everyday for news but I don't get bent out of shape when there is none.

[jarmo]

Bodhi, good points. 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I've seen the band 14 times since 2002,  that is hardly a band that "sits around doing nothing."   Yes I think most of us would want more new music, I want a new song everyday, they are my favorite band.  But things are nowhere near as horrible as some of you make it out to be.  I suppose if all I did was sit and wait for GNR to release music it would be pretty bad, but there are a lot of bands out there, GNR is not the ONLY band that makes music, just the BEST one.  I went to about 200 other shows that Weren't GNR since 2002 as well, so I guess that kind of follows the "live your life " thing.  I check this site everyday for news but I don't get bent out of shape when there is none.

And this is, pretty much, what you figure is happening?

People are quitting their jobs, cutting off communication with friends and family, all to sit in a corner and rock back and forth over the fact GNR doesn't release anything?

Does that make sense?

Or is it, perhaps, more likely that any and all discussion about GNR happens at this board amongst other fans during a work day?  Do you think much time is spent on the topic of GNR once people log off here for the day?

[Bridge]

But is a topic like this a referendum on the quality of the work in their prime?

If you allow its interpretation to be broad.

I think there is universal agreement that 4-5 years run was awesome.

Right, and if you left it at that.....how would you feel about the band?

This has nothing to do with the merit of the music produced.  I'd wager any of us would say we like the GNR material more than we like other bands stuff.

But you're separating the wings from the bird here.  The music is what's keeping you here, willing to continuously tolerate all the bullshit.  So can they really be separated?

Axl Rose has always been Axl Rose, and Guns N Roses has always been dysfunctional.  If you take that away, are they still really Guns N Roses?  Could they be better businessmen?  Maybe.  But, when you bellyache about Axl's silence, the lack of new material or plans, are you really discovering now something you never discovered before?  I'm not going to even ask if anyone here is surprised by the delays, the revolving door band members, and the overall discord, because nobody is.  The only thing I'm surprised at is people who continuously think we're going to get blood from a stone.

To me, this question comes down to what other fanbase trades places with us?  And the answer, I would think, is no one.

Yes, but what mentality brings about that question?  Your intimation certainly seems to be "nobody would trade places with us because our favorite band subjects us to such shitty treatment."  But might I suggest that the flipside is, "I allow the band to subject me to shitty treatment by standing there and taking the bullets instead of turning around and heading for the door."   I personally never ask myself the question above because it doesn't occur to me that I'm being treated badly by Axl or Guns N Roses at this stage.

I think you'd have a stronger argument if you were speaking from the standpoint of the fans who attended concerts that featured riots or no-shows.  But when you visit this site, you don't see anyone bitching about that.  Around here, everyone's biggest gripes are "There is no news!  There is no album!  The lineup is uncertain!  Are they reuniting or aren't they!"  I would assert that only constitutes shabby treatment in the minds of those who feel entitled.  Guns N Roses isn't giving you cancer or costing you anything by going 8 years without an album, even if it is unusual or downright quizzical.  And I'm not going to agree with anyone who says Axl or GNR costs you any time either, because Axl doesn't stick a gun through your computer screen and force you to keep reading.

Is there some other fanbase that wishes their band was run like this one?

Who?  Who is saying that?

But who would say that?  Who would stop and bother to conceive and rationalize that question, other than someone who falls into the description I provided above? 

All things considered, I might feel like GNR owed me something and treated me badly if I paid for a show that resulted in chaos or if Axl didn't show up.  That I can understand.  But I don't feel that I have it so bad merely because of the manner that Axl does business, be he right or wrong.  It doesn't mean I understand or condone all the insanity, I just don't feel personally affected by it, let alone feel robbed by it.

[D-GenerationX]

I think you'd have a stronger argument if you were speaking from the standpoint of the fans who attended concerts that featured riots or no-shows. 

Well, I am that person.  But Jarmo gets all chapped if its ever mentioned.

But that was just one night of disappointment.  Doesn't really compare to the all the wasted time and inactivity over decades.

Far bigger deal.  The man has wasted much of his career doing nothing.  For a guy that talented, its a shame.

That's how I view this question, and why I compare it to other bands.

[Bridge]

Well, I am that person.  But Jarmo gets all chapped if its ever mentioned.

Haha, well, I was almost that person too.  I had a ticket for a 2002 show that got canceled, but fortunately I was notified a few days before the show and spared the agony.

But that was just one night of disappointment.  Doesn't really compare to the all the wasted time and inactivity over decades.[

Far bigger deal.  The man has wasted much of his career doing nothing.  For a guy that talented, its a shame.

Right, but at whose expense?  That's my overall philosophy.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in principle, but really, who is truly affected (and I mean directly affected) by Axl's "wasted career"?  If Axl's band members weighed in on the subject (and I'm sure they could), I'd give them more credence.  But not people on a message board who feel like their lives have been slighted by his inactivity.