Would "reunion" end GnR's Chinese Democracy era?

[OscarAxl22]

Anything is possible with this band.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

[younggunner]

Hopefully we get to hear the majority of songs that were written in the CD era.

[HBK]

Not

 

[tippasaurus]

Are you talking about those songs that Axl recorded in the late-1990s?

Basically anything recorded that could have ended up on Chinese Democracy, but didn't.  I would especially love to hear those late 90s songs with Buckethead solos/guitar overdubs.  But I'm guessing that the "Oh My God," industrial type songs probably won't be released for quite some time, if ever. 

[AHUGEAxlFan]

Are you talking about those songs that Axl recorded in the late-1990s?

Basically anything recorded that could have ended up on Chinese Democracy, but didn't.  I would especially love to hear those late 90s songs with Buckethead solos/guitar overdubs.  But I'm guessing that the "Oh My God," industrial type songs probably won't be released for quite some time, if ever. 

I too wanna here the 1998-2000 late 90s stuff (like oh my God, CD, CITR) but I think I'd like to hear some things with 2010 in there too.

[EmilyGNR]

I could buy the "Heaven and Hell" scenario - but there's an important difference.  Black Sabbath with Dio was basically the classic lineup with a different singer (albeit Vinny Apice replaced Bill Ward after the Heaven and Hell album) - a singer who was a well-established, household name who had already had major success with Rainbow.  Two of the three albums he had already made with Sabbath (before H&H was used as the band name) are classics - and the third was a reasonable success as well.  Heaven and Hell, basically, were surely a much better touring proposition than Axl And Dudes, especially if something resembling the original* Guns N' Roses is available as an option.


*with apologies to Emily.

It's still not "original" GNR, history doesn't vanish because you Don't like it, or because it's inconvenient.

Axl has never toured with "Axl and Dudes" it's always been GNR. 

[AHUGEAxlFan]

I wish we could listen to songs and bands without questioning whether it's original or not. So what? Black sabbath with dio rocked, so did the original... Doesn't mean we can't love the dio version. I like the guns n roses that has been touring in 2001-2007. It's not original, but it's good.

We can't even use "original" without actually talking about Hollywood Rose + La Guns. You either like the band or don't like it. Who gives a shit if it isn't the classic version. Id rather see Axl playing new music ahead of time like CD instead of playing all of his old songs and like 4 recent songs.

[D-GenerationX]

We can't even use "original" without actually talking about Hollywood Rose + La Guns. You either like the band or don't like it. Who gives a shit if it isn't the classic version. Id rather see Axl playing new music ahead of time like CD instead of playing all of his old songs and like 4 recent songs.

Do you find it odd he has not elected to play a "new" song at a concert since 2006?

2001-02 tours : Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, Street Of Dreams, Silk Worms, Rhiad & The Bedouins

2006-07 tours : Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, Street Of Dreams, Better, I.R.S., There Was A Time

2009-10 tours : nothing

2011-12 tours : zip

2013-14 tours : nada

If they are supposedly sitting on all this great stuff they are excited about...where is it?  We see above he did have a track record of doing this very thing in the past.

Wha' happen?

[jarmo]

We see above he did have a track record of doing this very thing in the past.

Wha' happen?

He decided that instead of having people's first taste being a live version in concert or on Youtube, like in the past for some of the material, that he wouldn't do that with these songs?
But I'm sure you thought about that already and you're just asking for the sake of somebody discussing with you.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

He decided that instead of having people's first taste being a live version in concert or on Youtube, like in the past for some of the material, that he wouldn't do that with these songs?

As you see it, he soured on the premise entirely?

A lot of fans really got into those songs they obtained in that manner.  We see that from how fans were mouthing lyrics back to him for songs not even out yet. 

[jarmo]

I think, therefore I am.

No seriously, I think it's a possible reason.
Some of the element of surprise of the last album was a bit lost due to the live versions floating around and obviously the illegal stuff that came later.

Of course fans were into it. But that doesn't mean it's only a good thing to play songs live before they have a release date...

Another reason for playing them last time could be that he wanted to show the world, the doubters, that there were new songs. It wasn't only words in a magazine or whatever.
It's possible that the hypothetical need has changed....



/jarmo

[Virolec]

I think Jarmo's probably onto something there.  The alternatives are a) there are no new songs to speak of or b) Axl doesn't think they're very good.  There's no lack of rumblings and rumours about this band, but I can't recall anyone claiming that. 

[D-GenerationX]

Another reason for playing them last time could be that he wanted to show the world, the doubters, that there were new songs. It wasn't only words in a magazine or whatever.
It's possible that the hypothetical need has changed....

Big time agreed on this part.  

I felt the RIRIII concert (which many fans, myself included, played the shit out of for years) served that purpose.  It also gave a great deal of hope and generated excitment.

The leaks in 2006, I think, even more so.  Those dark years of 2003-2005 were grim times.  I know they weren't happy the leaks got out, but they accomplished the same thing.  OK, they haven't given up.  And there are more than just the handful of songs we already heard.

So, thinking along those lines, I think he could have bought himself some more time and goodwill with a new song in one of Appetite For Residency runs.  Smaller gigs with more hardcore fans.  Would have been a nice treat, I think.

[D-GenerationX]

I think Jarmo's probably onto something there.  The alternatives are a) there are no new songs to speak of or b) Axl doesn't think they're very good.  There's no lack of rumblings and rumours about this band, but I can't recall anyone claiming that. 

Well, that's what's hard to reconcile, I think.

For the record, I don't believe either of those are true.  Well, the first example truly isn't.  Songs do exist.

But what about that second one?  On the 2001-02 and 2006-07 tours, we see he was truly excited by his band and their work.  Its evident onstage.

Was the same true from 2009 onwards?  Could the lack of even one new song seeing the light of day, combined with all the tales about how that band didn't do a whole hell of a lot or recording be a sign Axl has doubts?

Recall that he was crushed when that one producer (forget which, there were so many) told him of his batch, he had 3 good songs.  Maybe that stung him harder than we know.  Maybe that's why there seems to be no real progress on the follow up.

Then you throw in his Revolver interview which would seem to refute that, but where is the proof he followed through on his claims of what was next?

Lot of questions, very few answers.

[jarmo]

Also, many of the tours after the album's release were to promote that album. Not the next album.
If you went to any of the shows, you'd know that it's not completely impossible that some of the people there had never heard those Chinese Democracy songs. So for them, they were "new".


All these possible reasons give you a better idea why it might have changed. There's a bigger picture, it's not just about a few hardcore fans at each show and the ones who sit at home waiting for a Youtube clip of a new song.




/jarmo

[Spirit]

I think if there ever was a time for GNR to reveal anything new, I think we should look at 2013 and onwards.

I feel they worked Chinese Democracy until 2012, and there wasn't any need for new stuff on those tours, as Jarmo said.

[D-GenerationX]

I think if there ever was a time for GNR to reveal anything new, I think we should look at 2013 and onwards.

I feel they worked Chinese Democracy until 2012, and there wasn't any need for new stuff on those tours, as Jarmo said.

Yes, I think you both make good points.

The shows from 2009 through the beginning of 2012 was really the tour to support CD.  Not terribly likely they would be onto introducing new songs quite yet.

But the 2012 residency onwards kicked off the going through the motions part of all this.  Really can't say they were still promoting CD at that point, can you?

I find it especially troubling there was not anything in 2014.  Those shows were all gravy.  South American shows for the umpteenth time, and yet another no pressure residency.

Also consider, Axl's Revolver interview was before that residency.  So if, as that interview let on, he was looking to once again focus on the follow up...wouldn't one think there was at least a chance we'd hear a new song at those Las Vegas shows?

Isn't it more than a bit ironic that the only completely out of the blue song at those shows was 'Yesterdays'?

[jarmo]

Also consider, Axl's Revolver interview was before that residency.  So if, as that interview let on, he was looking to once again focus on the follow up...wouldn't one think there was at least a chance we'd hear a new song at those Las Vegas shows?

He was gonna look at it after. So the focus wasn't on the next album during the shows.....

No matter how you try to justify it, in my opinion, the decision not to makes more sense than to play a new song for a select group of hardcore fans. No matter how much we would've enjoyed it.
Now, if the album had a release date when those shows happened, then I could agree with some of what you were saying...

Isn't it more than a bit ironic that the only completely out of the blue song at those shows was 'Yesterdays'?

You were expecting Marseilles?





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

No matter how you try to justify it, in my opinion, the decision not to makes more sense than to play a new song for a select group of hardcore fans. No matter how much we would've enjoyed it.
Now, if the album had a release date when those shows happened, then I could agree with some of what you were saying...

I think it would speak to his level of seriousness about continuing on.

Not playing one doesn't automatically equal him not being serious, but it opens up something of a can.

And, cards on the table, as much as I'd have loved a new song as a sign there is a future, the reality is that nothing would prove that more than a leak. 

[jarmo]

I think it would speak to his level of seriousness about continuing on.

Not playing one doesn't automatically equal him not being serious, but it opens up something of a can.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't have to mean anything.
It only means something like that because you want it to and it fits your "agenda".
You wanted it to happen, so you make up reasons that would prove you right. In reality, it doesn't have to mean anything.

Silkworms was played live in 2001. It wasn't even on the album. What does that mean? Whatever you want it to...


You've been given all these plausible reasons, but you just put them all aside and continue with "but they should have".
It's just somewhat odd, this disregard for plausible reasons and continuing the quest.

I mean, at what point could you admit that there's plenty of plausible reasons to not do it and move on? What does it take? Maybe your grand idea wasn't as goo as you thought in this case? These things happen....
No, I'm not angry. I'm just curious what makes somebody keep doing that.  Because it makes no sense to me.



/jarmo