Would "reunion" end GnR's Chinese Democracy era?

[tippasaurus]

(I'm sure this topic has already been raised somewhere else, but I don't have the time or patience to comb through all the threads that have popped up since the "reunion" rumors have begun to pick up steam.  The point is: feel free to move this to the appropriate thread if it has been discussed elsewhere.) 

So my thesis is this: Anyone who wants Chinese Democracy II should probably not be rooting for a "reunion."  And by "reunion," I mean Slash and Duff joining Axl, Fortus, Dizzy, and Frank Ferrer on an extended world tour (because all signs point to that being the arrangement on the table).  I usually don't buy into false dichotomies, but in this case, it's difficult for me to imagine Slash being too happy with Chinese Democracy II being released under the Gn'R brand before or during a world tour that features him and Duff.  And, while I appreciate the optimism of those of you saying Slash and Duff could lay down tracks on CD II (like Bumblefoot did prior to CD I's release), it's naive to think Slash or Duff want any part of CD II, nor would they likely want to use a Gn'R reunion tour as promotional tool for an album they had no role in creating. 

So, let's say the "reunion" happens, what does that mean for CD II?  Is it indefinitely shelved?  Maybe one day it gets released as an Axl Rose solo album (despite Axl's past objections to releasing CD as a solo act)?  Maybe this is part of why Axl would agree to a reunion tour in the first place?  Maybe he is carving out a deal with the record label to "buy back" the CD II recordings in exchange for a reunion?  I realize this is all speculation, but I personally would much rather have CD II in my hand than have another 2-3 years of "oldies but goodies" played on the road, regardless of the players involved.

I'm sure CD II will get released at some point, but I'm worried a "reunion" would move that release date back at least 5 more years, if not more.  But maybe that's what Axl wants?  Perhaps a reunion takes the heat off of him in terms of releasing new music and exposing himself to more critique, much of which came from folks who weren't going to be pleased with the music unless Slash was involved.  Can't say I blame the guy, CD seemed to suffer from unfair critique based on what it was not (Appetite) and who was not on it (Slash) rather than what it was (mostly good music), which to me seems unfortunate because some good music was there that the public, for the most part, missed out on.

Why go to all that trouble again when you can just go on a reunion tour, bank some tremendous cash, foster good will amongst the public and casual Gn'R fans, and maybe, one day, release CD II on his terms rather than a record label's?                     

[LIGuns]

Some interesting  speculatio, but  not sure why the record company would have anything to do with a tour. Sure the catalog would get a pump in sales, but the tour is going to sell for nostalgia...That's if a reunion is in the cards....

[AHUGEAxlFan]

that era ended in 2011 when the tour ended.

[OscarAxl22]

I can only hope.

[ice cream sand pig]

i dont know ax, but i cant see him doing this. scrapping everything he worked for, for what exactly? cash? acceptance? i think hope and believe cd 2 will be released under the gnr banner, and if it were to come out under his name instead, that to me feels like his vision for gnr wasnt followed through all the way, like it was stopped/compromised halfway or something. i wouldnt really care that much as id be so stoked over the music, but i think he would.

i know where youre coming from and i hate even entertaining this train of thought. i would be so bummed if cd2 was pushed back in favor of a reunion. i hope this does not happen. and i dont think it will.

and yes, cd suffered lots of unfair critique. its pretty sad. fuck it though, i love it and thats all that matters to me. never been a fan of reviews, most things i like tend to not get rave reviews.

[dmathski]

would be buried and never come out.

[GNR2014]

Are you talking about those songs that Axl recorded in the late-1990s?

[Wooody]

to me feels like his vision for gnr wasnt followed through all the way, like it was stopped/compromised halfway or something.

That's been my impression as well so far.

[mrhays]

Your concerns are legitimate and logical but also unnecessary. Firstly, all of them arise from theory, nothing official having been announced or spoken by anyone who counts, but if Slash and Duff both rejoin the band, no immediate reasons for their resistance to adding or accepting preexisting work seem apparent. It's music, and whether or not someone is a writer or owner, the initial steps committing to the organization would seem to suggest an acceptance for what it is, regardless of what it might mean to the acceptor's past involvement and/or personal feelings.

This speculation, this theory seems peaceful and exciting, and mostly hopeful, whether or not it occurs for real. I can understand your fears, if you'll permit me to regard them as such, but I encourage you to look the other way, to have faith in Axl, remembering what he said, how he related his feelings about CD to Kurt Loder (though it was 9 years prior -- forget that por favor, a different time it was), he and they didn't do all of this to keep it buried.

[Lucky]

that to me feels like his vision for gnr wasnt followed through all the way, like it was stopped/compromised halfway or something

what I think is, that he should have invested in better producer, or someone to direct the final cut of the songs. 15 years of fcking around made their penis numb... they needed sm1 else to warn em of minute details.

Many songs could have turned out a lot greater.
I only find a handful of songs on CD to be "Perfect". Most of them have some aspect "perfect", but other parts just fck it up.

For example, Madagascar, Sorry, Shackler, Blues, CD are perfectly tuned, composed and produced songs

but on the other hand
Better is a great song, but it has that weird guitar noise at 2:20 - that part is out of tune, and unimaginative - sm1 should have written an actual solo there.
also, intro and outro culd have been done by female back vocals... Axl singing it is just creepy (if sm1 can remix that, I'd appreciate it )

TWAT is 2 songs blended into 1. With the first song (2min) being boring and annoying, and the other song (post 2 mins) being among the best by GNR. IMO The first part should have been rewritten, or reworked or removed cus it seems like a filler intro  to the song.

I'm pretty much sure, everybody here cant wait for the song to get to the "back in time to the place in my soul" part, cus its so fkin better than first 2 mins (its just a 2 min Axl rant - almost 0 music there)

and TIL on the album just makes my balls hurt... make it a rock song... not a little mermaid soundtrack

sm1 should have warned them about that

[kaasupoltin]

that to me feels like his vision for gnr wasnt followed through all the way, like it was stopped/compromised halfway or something

what I think is, that he should have invested in better producer, or someone to direct the final cut of the songs. 15 years of fcking around made their penis numb... they needed sm1 else to warn em of minute details.

Many songs could have turned out a lot greater.
I only find a handful of songs on CD to be "Perfect". Most of them have some aspect "perfect", but other parts just fck it up.

For example, Madagascar, Sorry, Shackler, Blues, CD are perfectly tuned, composed and produced songs

but on the other hand
Better is a great song, but it has that weird guitar noise at 2:20 - that part is out of tune, and unimaginative - sm1 should have written an actual solo there.
also, intro and outro culd have been done by female back vocals... Axl singing it is just creepy (if sm1 can remix that, I'd appreciate it )

TWAT is 2 songs blended into 1. With the first song (2min) being boring and annoying, and the other song (post 2 mins) being among the best by GNR. IMO The first part should have been rewritten, or reworked or removed cus it seems like a filler intro  to the song.

I'm pretty much sure, everybody here cant wait for the song to get to the "back in time to the place in my soul" part, cus its so fkin better than first 2 mins (its just a 2 min Axl rant - almost 0 music there)

and TIL on the album just makes my balls hurt... make it a rock song... not a little mermaid soundtrack

sm1 should have warned them about that

But that's just you. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate your opinion, but I'm tired of hearing fans say stuff like "they should have done this and that and not that and this". In the end every band should do whatever they want to do or they end up doing something that is not genuine. Something that is not them.

GN'R has always been a little out of tune, off beat and annoying. But all the while they have been maybe the most genuine rock band. I think that's just awesome.

[Lucky]

being genuine is not an objective - dont fix if it aint broken. sometimes you cant reinvent a wheel. And I think some parts have stayed for "legacy" reasons, instead of "re evaluating" them.
its kinda sad that TWAT, or IRS basically stayed the same for 10 years, and that CITR is considered worse of after its been released than the demo of it.

[mrhays]

that to me feels like his vision for gnr wasnt followed through all the way, like it was stopped/compromised halfway or something

what I think is, that he should have invested in better producer, or someone to direct the final cut of the songs. 15 years of fcking around made their penis numb... they needed sm1 else to warn em of minute details.

Many songs could have turned out a lot greater.
I only find a handful of songs on CD to be "Perfect". Most of them have some aspect "perfect", but other parts just fck it up.

For example, Madagascar, Sorry, Shackler, Blues, CD are perfectly tuned, composed and produced songs

but on the other hand
Better is a great song, but it has that weird guitar noise at 2:20 - that part is out of tune, and unimaginative - sm1 should have written an actual solo there.
also, intro and outro culd have been done by female back vocals... Axl singing it is just creepy (if sm1 can remix that, I'd appreciate it )

TWAT is 2 songs blended into 1. With the first song (2min) being boring and annoying, and the other song (post 2 mins) being among the best by GNR. IMO The first part should have been rewritten, or reworked or removed cus it seems like a filler intro  to the song.

I'm pretty much sure, everybody here cant wait for the song to get to the "back in time to the place in my soul" part, cus its so fkin better than first 2 mins (its just a 2 min Axl rant - almost 0 music there)

and TIL on the album just makes my balls hurt... make it a rock song... not a little mermaid soundtrack

sm1 should have warned them about that

offering suggestions to someone else's work, especially doing it long after it was released and is now inalterable, is pointless, other than for useless, undeniable and clearly misguided self-promotion of yourself as some delusional, musically creative expert.

Opinions are always fine and acceptable, as well as are descriptive observations, but blatant instructions or solutions for fixing the, your uniquely noted problems with this creation are rude, disrespectful and ultimately ridiculous, your thoughts contributing nothing other than to your readers' possible and unwanted distress.

Also, your point addresses nothing to this thread, only using the CD link for your personal needs.

[kaasupoltin]

being genuine is not an objective.

True. You can't achieve genuineness by trying. You either are genuine or then you're not.

[reayj2003]

I'm pretty sure the reunion is on there's too much smoke this time without a fire. The fact so many industry people are commenting is a good sign. Could the Chinese Democracy II stuff be released in conjunction with this tour?? Would be a bit weird.

Remember the "Stay of Execution" theory? Even though that is now defunct my guess is there was a plan to release material under that banner.

Anyway we've been told there is a "plan". I also keep thinking about Richard saying a reunion would have to be about more than money...

[ice cream sand pig]

that to me feels like his vision for gnr wasnt followed through all the way, like it was stopped/compromised halfway or something

what I think is, that he should have invested in better producer, or someone to direct the final cut of the songs. 15 years of fcking around made their penis numb... they needed sm1 else to warn em of minute details.

Many songs could have turned out a lot greater.
I only find a handful of songs on CD to be "Perfect". Most of them have some aspect "perfect", but other parts just fck it up.

For example, Madagascar, Sorry, Shackler, Blues, CD are perfectly tuned, composed and produced songs

but on the other hand
Better is a great song, but it has that weird guitar noise at 2:20 - that part is out of tune, and unimaginative - sm1 should have written an actual solo there.
also, intro and outro culd have been done by female back vocals... Axl singing it is just creepy (if sm1 can remix that, I'd appreciate it )

TWAT is 2 songs blended into 1. With the first song (2min) being boring and annoying, and the other song (post 2 mins) being among the best by GNR. IMO The first part should have been rewritten, or reworked or removed cus it seems like a filler intro  to the song.

I'm pretty much sure, everybody here cant wait for the song to get to the "back in time to the place in my soul" part, cus its so fkin better than first 2 mins (its just a 2 min Axl rant - almost 0 music there)

and TIL on the album just makes my balls hurt... make it a rock song... not a little mermaid soundtrack

sm1 should have warned them about that

definitely dont agree with your critique of the songs you listed, especially til. i really dug the orchestral arrangement. it was top notch. not to mention, having all of that traditional and organized beauty mixed with axls at times dirty and uncoventonal sounding vocals (dirty in a good way) was one of the things that got me hooked on gnr in the first place. to me it was an all around awesome follow up to november rain.

the better intro always stuck with me. ax was on top of the world, and the next thing you knew, the whole industry was talking shit about him. wonder what that felt like to go through? i hate the idea of him giving that verse to someone else. it might turn out good, but it might also lose some of its meaning. the way he did it was memorable and unique, unlike your parroting of rolling stones claim that it sounded creepy ; )

im sure they took every precaution they could think of. my guess is thats part of the reason it took so long. i think if ax was happy with it, even after all those years, then im glad he went for it. much better than giving the final say to someone else and kicking himself for it later if he didnt like the way it turned out.

good on you for bringing up that quote mr hays. i forgot about that one. it does make me a little less anxious about whats to come.

[JAEBALL]

I never thought he was working on all of this to keep it buried... he is just trying to dig it out at his own pace. 

I hope Slash and Duff do indeed rejoin GNR... That would be very special.. and Axl still releases a record of his old songs,  don't care if its a "GNR"release or something else.

Best of both worlds.

[Annie]

I really don't get all the hate for Chinese Democracy. It is a great album that could have achieved more commercial success with proper promotion. Whenever GNR tours again I hope to hear songs from CD in the setlist along with awesome new music.

[JAEBALL]

I really don't get all the hate for Chinese Democracy. It is a great album that could have achieved more commercial success with proper promotion. Whenever GNR tours again I hope to hear songs from CD in the setlist along with awesome new music.

I don't see much of any hate on this board for it... at all. Some people don't like every song, that's normal with most records by any band... I think.

As for why the outside world might not love it... is it really hard to understand why? We don't need to re has the bands history for that do we .

[TheBaconman]

I think when Axl sent out those signed plagues to it seemed everyone except me, that it signified the end of the CD era