Izzy's "demotion"

[rebelhipi]

This says it all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZgHu8woUKY
Slash did not want two guitarists playing lead. He said it.


Like noted here earlier, multiple guitar lead happened in ADF and it certainly did after Slash left.

Gilby has said many times that he is a lead guitar player by heart. Im sure that Gilby would have not minded to have a little more freedom in his playing.
I mean even his Wild Horses ''solo spot'' is like 5 seconds long before Slash comes in shredding.


Another example is Slash bitching about Pauls solo on Sympathy.

[TheBaconman]

So why would Izzy allow this?  He has a equal member in the band st the point of the uyi recordings

Would be of gotten away with turning down slashes guitar? Or a Axls mic? 

But from all I have read he just kinda didn't care and just went along with it all.  It's actually a shame

And shows you how strong izzys songs are to the band.  Where is basiclh puts zero effort into the recording process and the boys still end up using them and recording them

[CherryGarcia]

I would argue that in part, Izzy's ''demotion'' on UYI also came because of the structure of the songs demanded more of a rhythm player and not another lead. I can't imagine estranged with another guitarplayer playing lead in there, it would sound intrusive. But its an Axl song, a piano based song, its just different. And there where more axl songs on UYI than in AFD.
Not surprisingly, Back off Bitch is one of the tracks that sounds more like AFD, and his input on that one is more like his input on the AFD songs.

Interesting point. So you're saying the reason Izzy played less on those albums is because of the songs themselves. And therefore Gilby, just filled his shoes, and never really had a chance to be more than a rhythm player alongside Slash.

Do you think the rest was a result of that? Like "These songs don't need my parts so why bother?" when the other guys asked him to redo something for example?
 


/jarmo

You're ignoring the fact that Slash has done this with every single rhythm player he's played with since. Even on Snakepit, which was co-written with Gilby, you don't really hear Gilby. You only hear Slash, even on a song like "Monkey Chow" which Clarke alone composed.

[jarmo]

Yeah, but that was his band.

Ever since GN'R, with the exception of VR, it's been his show.....
It's understandable if he was the star in Snakepit.

But I see your point. Just trying to understand what people think caused it....



/jarmo

[sky dog]

Slash's ego caused it....pretty clear. He wanted all the glory. He thought he could do all the parts by himself...ala Jimmy Page. The problem is he is and never was as good as Jimmy Page. Slash is a badass...no doubt. However, he needed huge support in Izzy and Axl. Page didn't need shit....Townsend didn't need shit...Hendrix, etc. They ran the show top to bottom. Slash tried to do that and it didn't work. One could say that about Axl as well but I personally believe Axl is WAY more talented as an artist than Slash is. To me, Slash is a stereotypical 70's blues rock guitarist. What does Slash actually have over say someone like Gary Rossington from Lynyrd Skynyrd? Tuesday's Gone vs Estranged? Freebird vs November Rain? Sweet Home Alabama vs Sweet Child O Mine....Jungle vs Saturday Night Special? NOTHING. Mick Ronson, Joe Perry, the list of guitarists goes on and on.....his ego was a very big problem that nobody wants to admit to because he painted himself out to be the victim.

[EmilyGNR]

Slash's ego caused it....pretty clear. He wanted all the glory. He thought he could do all the parts by himself...ala Jimmy Page. The problem is he is and never was as good as Jimmy Page. Slash is a badass...no doubt. However, he needed huge support in Izzy and Axl. Page didn't need shit....Townsend didn't need shit...Hendrix, etc. They ran the show top to bottom. Slash tried to do that and it didn't work. One could say that about Axl as well but I personally believe Axl is WAY more talented as an artist than Slash is. To me, Slash is a stereotypical 70's blues rock guitarist. What does Slash actually have over say someone like Gary Rossington from Lynyrd Skynyrd? Tuesday's Gone vs Estranged? Freebird vs November Rain? Sweet Home Alabama vs Sweet Child O Mine....Jungle vs Saturday Night Special? NOTHING. Mick Ronson, Joe Perry, the list of guitarists goes on and on.....his ego was a very big problem that nobody wants to admit to because he painted himself out to be the victim. Bullshit.

Great post 

The popular thing for a long time following the breakup of GNR was to paint Axl as the "control freak" "dictator" etc. 

That was the myth, the true picture was much different.

[Wooody]

What does Slash actually have over say someone like Gary Rossington from Lynyrd Skynyrd? Tuesday's Gone vs Estranged? Freebird vs November Rain? Sweet Home Alabama vs Sweet Child O Mine....Jungle vs Saturday Night Special? NOTHING.

I don't understand your question, are you saying those songs are better than the GNR songs? or that their guitar work is better?  I love freebird, especially the original version with the piano, but it doesnt hold a candle to november rain? or most gnr songs really? But I would venture to say that's a matter of opinion and taste. I also like slash better than Page or Townsend. Hendrix was different because he was a one man show. so I can't compare.

[Wooody]

I would argue that in part, Izzy's ''demotion'' on UYI also came because of the structure of the songs demanded more of a rhythm player and not another lead. I can't imagine estranged with another guitarplayer playing lead in there, it would sound intrusive. But its an Axl song, a piano based song, its just different. And there where more axl songs on UYI than in AFD.
Not surprisingly, Back off Bitch is one of the tracks that sounds more like AFD, and his input on that one is more like his input on the AFD songs.

Interesting point. So you're saying the reason Izzy played less on those albums is because of the songs themselves. And therefore Gilby, just filled his shoes, and never really had a chance to be more than a rhythm player alongside Slash.

Do you think the rest was a result of that? Like "These songs don't need my parts so why bother?" when the other guys asked him to redo something for example?
 


/jarmo

It's a theory, I personally think the illusions are flawless (except for My World of course). But from an artistic point of view Izzy may have very well considered the songs finished, a good artist knows when to stop painting. Its easy to say Axl and Slash had more ego than the rest, but is that really ego or is that ambition? Axl wanted to bury appetite, slash had coma. What if they were just more ambitious and had more fire in their belly than Izzy, who was just more laid back? So he let go of the reins for a bit and it ended up being Axl and Slash taking over. Maybe Axl and Slash had more to say during UYI.

[Lucky]

I think u guys are looking this way to "movie - like"
its like every situation in life. more complex than ... Good guy-bad guy... action-reaction.

its almost 10 years of human relationships, and personal changes, interests that resulted this
everything... from owing 10$ 5 years ago, latest episode of Married with children, business decisions, or Jehovahs witness knocking on sm1s door resulted in this. Its sm1s life. not video game.


its not enough to say "He sucked yesterday in studio", or "slash was a ego freak", to explain why something changed.

[kaasupoltin]

Maybe Axl and Slash had more to say during UYI.

This has always been the way I have seen it. I don't think Izzy ever wanted to be what GN'R became after AFD became a huge success and the whole UYI thing started. And that was exactly what Axl and Slash wanted GN'R to be. A huge thing that was never seen or heard before, the result of two great egos and talents who pushed each other to the extreme to create something new and thank god for that (Estranged is a great example of that process).

But to be honest, I think both Izzy and Gilby were much more than "just rhythm guitarists" on stage.

[Rainfox]

Interesting part about Izzy being whacked out of his mind in Tel Aviv (as Axl tells it).

That really always baffled me.

This was in, what, 1993 - when Izzy was subbing for the injured Gilby. Izzy had allegedly been clean and sober since 1991 at this point. Moved to Sweden. Cleaned up his act. Travelled alone on the first leg of the UYI tour. Got a million hobbies (bikes, guns etc.) to get his mind off drugs.

He comes back - supposedly for a HUGE amount for money for a few shows - and from what I've seen from that show, Izzy looks very clearheaded. Hard to tell though, from a few clips and pictures.

I saw the Ju Ju Hounds live in Copenhagen in 1992 and Izzy was on club soda and in a good mood (although he did kick a crowd surfer down from the stage). By the way, it was so loud it was almost unbearable. Just found this lobe clip and despite the audio quality you can kinda sense the show is just too loud.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97FeCcLGmAg

Aaaaanyway... Izzy bombed in 1993 in Israel subbing for Gilby? This is interesting GnR trivia. 

[Ringoturtle]

what's up with you guys?! do you have deaf ears?  you can hear Izzy on UYI I +II. you can hear Gilby on Snakepit I. yeah, Slash licks/riffs are more pregnant/concise (don't know which words fits) that's why they come to the fore. AND Slash is slightly louder than the rhythm player.

the only songs Izzy probably didn't play on were Coma, Locomotive (left/right speaker sound too Slashy) and Shotgun Blues (Axl plays guitar). listen do Izzys solo records. it's even not him playing lead. it's just not his cup of tea.

there's no need to give Gilby more leadguitar-spotlight because he is the rhythm player for fucks sake. he did get his little solo spot before Wild Horses. more than 5 seconds.

sure, guitars are important to Slash but you'd like to paint him as a great dictator and I can only assume why. it's hust about recordings and guitars and not about "what not". even Axl played on Shotgun Blues and even though he did have two guitarists...So what, it's one song.

Gotta go now

[overmatik]

My take on this issue is that after the band became huge Izzy simply fell out of love with the band and simply didn't care anymore. Add to this the firing of Steven and the complete change in the band dynamics that resulted. This is something really overlooked in GNR's history, the role performed by Steven in the classic line-up.

[DeN]

I don't know because I wasn't there.

[jarmo]

I don't know because I wasn't there.

It's the Internet, of course you know! 




/jarmo

[Rainfox]

 

[Annie]

Slash's ego caused it....pretty clear. He wanted all the glory. He thought he could do all the parts by himself...ala Jimmy Page. The problem is he is and never was as good as Jimmy Page. Slash is a badass...no doubt. However, he needed huge support in Izzy and Axl. Page didn't need shit....Townsend didn't need shit...Hendrix, etc. They ran the show top to bottom. Slash tried to do that and it didn't work. One could say that about Axl as well but I personally believe Axl is WAY more talented as an artist than Slash is. To me, Slash is a stereotypical 70's blues rock guitarist. What does Slash actually have over say someone like Gary Rossington from Lynyrd Skynyrd? Tuesday's Gone vs Estranged? Freebird vs November Rain? Sweet Home Alabama vs Sweet Child O Mine....Jungle vs Saturday Night Special? NOTHING. Mick Ronson, Joe Perry, the list of guitarists goes on and on.....his ego was a very big problem that nobody wants to admit to because he painted himself out to be the victim. Bullshit.

Buckethead is alot like Hendrix and Page. I have never been so mezmerized by a guitar player like I was at his solo shows.He didn't need a singer. His guitar playing is so good that it is almost if he makes the guitar sing.

[JAEBALL]

I've always gotten a good kick out of the idea that Slash was a bad guy for not wanting to concede any and all control in Guns N Roses., particularly when it came to the guitar parts.

Everybody knows who Axl Rose is right? Nobody here thinks maybe him dissolving their partnership and forcing Slash and Duff to sign contracts to be in Guns N Roses, in hindsight, wasn't a smart move?

I think they were both fools for how they handled those years, and Slash was a real snake int he grass for years , with the help of Perla when playing the press against Axl.

BUT FOR GODS SAKE ONE TIME...

I'd love to read one of you admit that maybe just maybe Axl's power play ruined any chance of them continuing thru their other obstacles. (such as Izzy's departure, and who to replace him).

You can argue till you're blue in the face that Axl was right to do so, more talented, better suited to lead ... but what was the end result?

[sky dog]

Buckethead was easily the best guitar player I have ever seen up close and personal.

[sky dog]

Jaeball, they are both at fault...equally in my mind.