Izzy's "demotion"

[jarmo]

Yeah, but Axl was 1/5 of the band. Not more important than anybody else!
Even though the reason Sweet Child O' Mine was created was because of him. But, no. Not more important.

Definitely not.
The song writing credits say so.

End of sarcasm.


/jarmo

[CherryGarcia]

Since you REFUSE to answer questions I ask you, I gotta assume something right?

No, but one guy had ideas..... One guy wanted to add a keyboard player, one guy wanted to make big videos that would make an impact and be remembered for decades....

And the other guys had no ideas? No vision? Is that what you're saying?
So, one guy had an idea for videos...Cool. But as Axl himself admitted, his talent on the guitar (at least in the early 1990s) was pretty limited...So from whence came all that guitar and bass work which is also remembered decades later?

And the rest?

Garden of Eden - thrash metal
Pretty Tied Up - Funk Rock
Double Talkin' Jive - Punk Rock
Dust N' Bones - Classic Rock
14 Years - Classic Rock

Thank you for your answer.

Did the band become piano driven as a result, or did the piano only drive 4 songs out of 30?

Funny that.
Even most casual rock music fans are able to give him more credit than you... 

Go outside of the GN'R forums and most people (on regular music forums) aren't very fond of Axl.

The bottom line is, if one of the main songwriters evolves in his craft, then chances are it will rub off on the band's output. The difference in the sound might be bigger if new people are brought in.
This could also be done by using a different producer for example.

So, again, all that guitar work, those riffs, those solos - Axl's doing?
Or is songwriting a collaborative effort?

[EmilyGNR]

From 08-

Axl: "About following particular styles, yes I do feel there are parameters with GUNS as opposed to not being or in GUNS. 'Chinese Democracy' is, in my opinion, an evolution not necessarily how each from the past would but how the music and intent could and did.

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/#5Y1RT7s77M440mXx.99

[Wooody]

I don't understand why people are getting so up in arms over the fact that guns hasn't evovled.

Haha.
I think the real argument here is that some of you have a hard time giving Axl any credit for anything.

Nah, just because we give credit to Slash Duff Izzy and Co, it doesnt mean we don't give ANY credit to Axl.

[CherryGarcia]

Yeah, but Axl was 1/5 of the band. Not more important than anybody else!
Even though the reason Sweet Child O' Mine was created was because of him. But, no. Not more important.

Definitely not.
The song writing credits say so.

End of sarcasm.


/jarmo

SCOM was written in a collaborative process.
Slash was strumming this guitar riff and Axl happened to hear it and liked it, and Axl asked Slash to explore it further.
The rest of the band then joined in and added their own bits, and Axl provided lyrics, and then the producer helped to give the band a good ending to the song.
A collaborative effort.

Like Keith strumming on a guitar and Mick saying, "Keith, I like that, keep going" and the band joining in.

Axl was not more important then the rest. Nor was he less important.

[CherryGarcia]

From 08-

Axl: "About following particular styles, yes I do feel there are parameters with GUNS as opposed to not being or in GUNS. 'Chinese Democracy' is, in my opinion, an evolution not necessarily how each from the past would but how the music and intent could and did.

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/#5Y1RT7s77M440mXx.99

Not the key phrase, stuck in the middle there - "In my opinion..."
Axl's opinion is that his vocal performance sucked on Lies....Does that make it factually, objectively true? I would certainly disagree with Axl's opinion there...But maybe you do? Because Axl said so?

[EmilyGNR]

Newsflash: The liner notes on Appetite don't accurately reflect who was actually responsible for the songs.

Adler even got courtesy writing credit and didn't write a thing.

Let's go by this very's sites credits then:

Welcome to the Jungle:
Music: Slash, Rose; Lyrics: Rose

It's So Easy:
Music: McKagan/Arkeen; Lyrics: McKagan, Arkeen

Nightrain:
Music: Stradlin, McKagan, Rose, Slash; Lyrics: McKagan, Rose

Out Ta Get Me:
Music: Slash, Rose, Stradlin; Lyrics: Rose, Stradlin

Mr. Brownstone:
Music: Stradlin, Slash; Lyrics: Stradlin

Paradise City:
Music: McKagan, Slash, Rose, Stradlin; Lyrics: Rose, McKagan

My Michelle:
Music: Rose, Stradlin; Lyrics: Stradlin

Think About You:
Music: Stradlin; Lyrics: Stradlin

Sweet Child O' Mine:
Music: Rose, Slash, Stradlin; Lyrics: Rose

You're Crazy:
Music: Slash, Stradlin, Rose; Lyrics: Rose, Stradlin

Anything Goes:
Music: Stradlin, Rose, Weber; Lyrics: Stradlin, Rose

Rocket Queen:
Music: Rose, Slash, Stradlin; Lyrics: Rose

You are defeating your own argument.

Those credits clearly show how integral, and how vital Axl's lyrics AND Melodies are and were to GNR.

You are trying to devalue and discredit the main influence of the band , it is laughable.

[D-GenerationX]

From 08-

Axl: "About following particular styles, yes I do feel there are parameters with GUNS as opposed to not being or in GUNS. 'Chinese Democracy' is, in my opinion, an evolution not necessarily how each from the past would but how the music and intent could and did.

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/#5Y1RT7s77M440mXx.99

Axl also said he was touched by the overwhelming support he received for blowing off the Hall Of Fame.

Unless he only polled his immediate household, that wasn't exactly a super accurate picture of the situation.

[Wooody]

Axl's opinion is that his vocal performance sucked on Lies....Does that make it factually, objectively true? I would certainly disagree with Axl's opinion there...But maybe you do? Because Axl said so?

really? he said that? I adore his vocals on Lies  

[EmilyGNR]

From 08-

Axl: "About following particular styles, yes I do feel there are parameters with GUNS as opposed to not being or in GUNS. 'Chinese Democracy' is, in my opinion, an evolution not necessarily how each from the past would but how the music and intent could and did.

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/#5Y1RT7s77M440mXx.99

Not the key phrase, stuck in the middle there - "In my opinion..."
Axl's opinion is that his vocal performance sucked on Lies....Does that make it factually, objectively true? I would certainly disagree with Axl's opinion there...But maybe you do? Because Axl said so?

He was being self depreciating on the quote you mentioned, are you truly that daft Miser?

He clearly said it Evolved, by the Dictionary definition It Evolved.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl's opinion is that his vocal performance sucked on Lies....Does that make it factually, objectively true? I would certainly disagree with Axl's opinion there...But maybe you do? Because Axl said so?

really? he said that? I adore his vocals on Lies  

Yeah, I think they are his best vocals on any album.

'You're Crazy' is probably my favorite Axl vocal, ever.

[Wooody]

You are trying to devalue and discredit the main influence of the band , it is laughable.

I don't think he is trying to devalue or discredit Axl. However he is trying to say he was not the MAIN influence in the band the way you like to believe.

[EmilyGNR]

From 08-

Axl: "About following particular styles, yes I do feel there are parameters with GUNS as opposed to not being or in GUNS. 'Chinese Democracy' is, in my opinion, an evolution not necessarily how each from the past would but how the music and intent could and did.

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/#5Y1RT7s77M440mXx.99

Axl also said he was touched by the overwhelming support he received for blowing off the Hall Of Fame.

Unless he only polled his immediate household, that wasn't exactly a super accurate picture of the situation.

Not true, he had a great deal of support and people that understood his decision.

The minority was vocal, just like on the internet.

A lot of people know what an insider circle jerk the RRHOF is.

[EmilyGNR]

You are trying to devalue and discredit the main influence of the band , it is laughable.

I don't think he is trying to devalue or discredit Axl. However he is trying to say he was not the MAIN influence in the band the way you like to believe.

He was the main influence, you are undervaluing what he actually contributed, how he influenced the others and what he brought in.

[CherryGarcia]

You are defeating your own argument.

Those credits clearly show how integral, and how vital Axl's lyrics AND Melodies are and were to GNR.

You are trying to devalue and discredit the main influence of the band , it is laughable.

If we go by the site's credits, without other songwriting, we don't have the following songs:

It's So Easy:
Music: McKagan/Arkeen; Lyrics: McKagan, Arkeen

Mr. Brownstone:
Music: Stradlin, Slash; Lyrics: Stradlin

Think About You:
Music: Stradlin; Lyrics: Stradlin

We don't get lyrics on the following song without input beyond Axl:

You're Crazy:
Lyrics: Rose, Stradlin

Anything Goes:
Lyrics: Stradlin, Rose

Nightrain:
Music: Lyrics: McKagan, Rose

Paradise City:
Lyrics: Rose, McKagan

And on all other tracks, there are musical songwriting contributions by other members.
There is not one single song on Appetite that is credited to Rose alone. There are several credited to Izzy alone in full.
Without Izzy and Slash's lyrics and melodies, you don't get no Brownstone.

It was a band. Which means no one member is more important than the rest. Axl played his part and helped to craft the song...But so did all the other guys, especially Izzy and Slash.

[Wooody]

You are trying to devalue and discredit the main influence of the band , it is laughable.

I don't think he is trying to devalue or discredit Axl. However he is trying to say he was not the MAIN influence in the band the way you like to believe.

He was the main influence, you are undervaluing what he actually contributed, how he influenced the others and what he brought in.

That's a matter of opinion, and that is why some people, me included, disagree with you.
We are not putting Axl down because we give credit to the other guys.

[Bridge]

Not true, he had a great deal of support and people that understood his decision.  
The minority was vocal, just like on the internet.

I'm sure he had his supporters, but you can't know how many, and whether they were a minority or majority.  There were a large number who didn't support him, and the Hall of Fame audience booed him to the point where Billie Joe Armstrong had to halt them.

[jarmo]

And the other guys had no ideas? No vision? Is that what you're saying?
So, one guy had an idea for videos...Cool. But as Axl himself admitted, his talent on the guitar (at least in the early 1990s) was pretty limited...So from whence came all that guitar and bass work which is also remembered decades later?

You really are a master of jumping to conclusions.

No, that's not what I said. I made the point that I believe Axl was a driving force in making the band evolve artistically.

Why do you hate Axl so much?
Is that what you're saying, you hate him? Why? How come?

Garden of Eden - thrash metal
Pretty Tied Up - Funk Rock
Double Talkin' Jive - Punk Rock
Dust N' Bones - Classic Rock
14 Years - Classic Rock

You can keep labeling songs to the left and right.
Doesn't change the fact that several of these songs were not particularly that different from the songs on AFD.
 

Did the band become piano driven as a result, or did the piano only drive 4 songs out of 30?

November Rain was written on piano before your idea that the rest of the band wanted piano on One In A Million existed.

Go outside of the GN'R forums and most people (on regular music forums) aren't very fond of Axl.

Which proves my point.

Even people who hate him give him more credit than you seem to be able to.  

The bottom line is, if one of the main songwriters evolves in his craft, then chances are it will rub off on the band's output. The difference in the sound might be bigger if new people are brought in.
This could also be done by using a different producer for example.

So, again, all that guitar work, those riffs, those solos - Axl's doing?
Or is songwriting a collaborative effort?

Which part didn't you understand?




/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

You are defeating your own argument.

Those credits clearly show how integral, and how vital Axl's lyrics AND Melodies are and were to GNR.

You are trying to devalue and discredit the main influence of the band , it is laughable.

If we go by the site's credits, without other songwriting, we don't have the following songs:

It's So Easy:
Music: McKagan/Arkeen; Lyrics: McKagan, Arkeen

Mr. Brownstone:
Music: Stradlin, Slash; Lyrics: Stradlin

Think About You:
Music: Stradlin; Lyrics: Stradlin

We don't get lyrics on the following song without input beyond Axl:

You're Crazy:
Lyrics: Rose, Stradlin

Anything Goes:
Lyrics: Stradlin, Rose

Nightrain:
Music: Lyrics: McKagan, Rose

Paradise City:
Lyrics: Rose, McKagan

And on all other tracks, there are musical songwriting contributions by other members.
There is not one single song on Appetite that is credited to Rose alone. There are several credited to Izzy alone in full.
Without Izzy and Slash's lyrics and melodies, you don't get no Brownstone.

It was a band. Which means no one member is more important than the rest. Axl played his part and helped to craft the song...But so did all the other guys, especially Izzy and Slash.

Repeat-the credits on Appetite were divided out, Adler even got writing credit and did not write a thing.

You are undervaluing the contributions Axl made and the influence he had on the others, not to mention what he brought in.

The band evolved, by the dictionary definition.

e?volve
ēˈv?lv/
verb
1.
develop gradually, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
"the company has evolved into a major chemical manufacturer"
synonyms:   develop, progress, advance; mature, grow, expand, spread; alter, change, transform, adapt, metamorphose;

[EmilyGNR]

Not true, he had a great deal of support and people that understood his decision.  
The minority was vocal, just like on the internet.

I'm sure he had his supporters, but you can't know how many, and whether they were a minority or majority.  There were a large number who didn't support him, and the Hall of Fame audience booed him to the point where Billie Joe Armstrong had to halt them.

I'm cognizant of that, a lot occurred that wasn't publicized and the booing was staged IMO.

There are a great many people that know the RRHOF is corrupt and supported Axl, Izzy and Dizzy choosing not to attend.