The Flashback: Sympathy for the Devil

[D-GenerationX]

I was 4 years old in late 94.. The first time I heard the song was probably when I first listened to the Greatest Hits album in 2004. Thought it was awesome back then, still thinks it's pretty awesome but rarely listen to it. Got no problem with Paul's parts during the solo.

No issue with the way his parts sound either. Just a bad situation.

Honestly, I could not even tell.  Had Slash never said that, I'd have no idea. 

It's not like it was the lead, just the rhythm track underneath.  But, I guess if you are a guitar player, you hear it right away, as Slash said he did.

[sofine11]

I was 4 years old in late 94.. The first time I heard the song was probably when I first listened to the Greatest Hits album in 2004. Thought it was awesome back then, still thinks it's pretty awesome but rarely listen to it. Got no problem with Paul's parts during the solo.

No issue with the way his parts sound either. Just a bad situation.

Honestly, I could not even tell.  Had Slash never said that, I'd have no idea. 

It's not like it was the lead, just the rhythm track underneath.  But, I guess if you are a guitar player, you hear it right away, as Slash said he did.

That absolutely enraged Slash though. There's at least 3 videos on youtube with Slash digging into Axl & Paul from around 1995 for doing that. 

[D-GenerationX]

Oh, one of Axl's Top 3 Worst Idea Ever, that move.

Not even a question.

[CherryGarcia]

Oh, one of Axl's Top 3 Worst Idea Ever, that move.

Not even a question.

It also probably sent Slash into full spite mode.

Paul being included on Sympathy without telling Slash > Slash saying no to Axl working on the three Snakepit songs he wanted > Axl threatening to sue Slash > Tension and drama, all progress halted > Slash's departure.

[CheapJon]

I was 4 years old in late 94.. The first time I heard the song was probably when I first listened to the Greatest Hits album in 2004. Thought it was awesome back then, still thinks it's pretty awesome but rarely listen to it. Got no problem with Paul's parts during the solo.

No issue with the way his parts sound either. Just a bad situation.

Honestly, I could not even tell.  Had Slash never said that, I'd have no idea. 

Yeah, It took me years to figure out what all the bitching was about.   

[sofine11]

Oh, one of Axl's Top 3 Worst Idea Ever, that move.

Not even a question.

It also probably sent Slash into full spite mode.

Paul being included on Sympathy without telling Slash > Slash saying no to Axl working on the three Snakepit songs he wanted > Axl threatening to sue Slash > Tension and drama, all progress halted > Slash's departure.

Certainly it was not the beginning of tension between the two, but I would say that what went down with 'Sympathy' was probably the biggest turning point in what would ultimately lead to Slash's departure.  It certainly lead to him taking his proverbial ball and going home, that ball being the first Snakepit album.

[D-GenerationX]

If you are going to show that complete lack of respect to another "made man" in your band, you have to be nuts to think he's not going to be livid.

This wasn't like telling Gilby to go get his shinebox.  This was doing it to the second most well known member of the band, and man probably considered Axl's equal in the eyes of many when it came to GNR legacy.

This is the kind of move you pull knowing full well this could go bad, real bad, and just not caring.  You are daring the other guy to bend over and take it.

Slash didn't.

And now, 20 years later, we all wait on pins and needles to see if time truly heals all wounds.

[TheBaconman]

Oh, one of Axl's Top 3 Worst Idea Ever, that move.

Not even a question.

Ya all the complaints from Slash came from once he left the band

How could Axl. Just put anyone he wanted on the song.  At the time he was in a legal agreement with both slash and duff and still izzy to a certain extent.   I guarantee Axl would not be able to pull off, having anyone co me in and play rhythm guitar on a official gnr released song at the time.  Without the ok of both slash and duff

So it was a move by Axl.   A move that had to be approved from slash and duff.  A move they might not of liked but agreed to.   A move t hat slash probably tried to save face with after with by cutting it down

I have no problems with Paul's work with gnr.    I got to watch the greatest live concert from them with him in it.  And I got a album out of him, with huge contributions from him on it.

[rebelhipi]

And I got a album out of him, with huge contributions from him on it.

I see what you did there 


What you basicly hear is Pauls guitar on the left channel and Slashes on the right.

[EmilyGNR]

If you are going to show that complete lack of respect to another "made man" in your band, you have to be nuts to think he's not going to be livid.

This wasn't like telling Gilby to go get his shinebox.  This was doing it to the second most well known member of the band, and man probably considered Axl's equal in the eyes of many when it came to GNR legacy.

This is the kind of move you pull knowing full well this could go bad, real bad, and just not caring.  You are daring the other guy to bend over and take it.

Slash didn't.

And now, 20 years later, we all wait on pins and needles to see if time truly heals all wounds.

Didn't the haggling over the Snakepit songs come before Sympathy Recording? Check the timeline-

*In late September '94, Slash returned to the studio to flesh out the demos refused by Axl into an album that would become It's Five O'Clock Somewhere. The album is ready in the next month.
"Altogether It's Five O'Clock Somewhere took 26 days to record. During that time they also had time to mix the album. And write all the lyrics." (Slash, Aftonbladet, 02/04/95)


*In October '94, the David Geffen-produced Interview with a Vampire, starring Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, was a month away from release. The soundtrack was among the last things still being mulled over. Jay Aston (from the goth-rock band Gene Loves Jezebel fame) maintains his solo song, Who Wants to Go to Heaven, was in the running for the end credits until the very last minute: then, it was replaced with an original recording of Rolling Stones' Sympathy for the Devil. Finally, someone brainstormed - why not recruit Geffen Records' biggest band to cover the song, given it would do well for the film as well?
"Got a phone call from [Geffen A&R Man] Tom Zutaut, who said, 'I want you to do me a favor, David Geffen's doing this movie and they really want you to do 'Sympathy for the Devil' in it. Originally, they had the Stones version in it." (Slash, Metal Edge Magazine, 04/95)

At the same time, Slash was recording the Snakepit album. He was now hoping the get band back together for the first time since the Gilby sessions in April - six months prior.

for a while, Axl had threatened to sue Slash if those 3-4 demos would be released. The cease & desist order had since been pulled, but Axl had already provided his side of the drama by commissioning third-party overdubs to the '...Devil' recordings.

And true Slash didn't like Paul-"Fuckin' asshole. I hate that guy. He didn't work out, so I am not really sure where the fuck that shit's headed. I'll deal with it when I get off the road. (Slash, The Michigan Daily, 04/95)

But he didnt want Zakk in the band-
"That whole bullshit thing with Zakk (Wylde)... Just to get that story straight, it's nothing against Zakk, it was just not the right... I love jamming with Zakk on his own, as a separate entity, but in Guns N' Roses it doesn't sound right." (Metal Hammer, 11/95)
"[Guns] doesn't sound right with two heavy-league guitar players." (Slash, Metal Express, 1995)

And resented Izzy as well-
"During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!
 
- Slash
Okej November? 1993
http://www.heretoday...hp?articleid=13


I personally think there were numerous complex issues here, too many to arbitarily assign blame to ONE member as you are attempting to do here - per your usual schtick.

[EmilyGNR]

Oh, one of Axl's Top 3 Worst Idea Ever, that move.

Not even a question.

Ya all the complaints from Slash came from once he left the band

How could Axl. Just put anyone he wanted on the song.  At the time he was in a legal agreement with both slash and duff and still izzy to a certain extent.   I guarantee Axl would not be able to pull off, having anyone co me in and play rhythm guitar on a official gnr released song at the time.  Without the ok of both slash and duff

So it was a move by Axl.   A move that had to be approved from slash and duff.  A move they might not of liked but agreed to.   A move t hat slash probably tried to save face with after with by cutting it down

I have no problems with Paul's work with gnr.    I got to watch the greatest live concert from them with him in it.  And I got a album out of him, with huge contributions from him on it.

But the snakepit albums and the disputed songs that nearly came to legalities were in this time period too-

Too many complex issues to arbitrarily assign blame to one member.

[D-GenerationX]

shitty cover one way or the other. I will take Jane's Addiction's version any day.

Anything in particular? 

You don't think Slash crushed it?  I sure do.

[D-GenerationX]

I have no problems with Paul's work with gnr.    I got to watch the greatest live concert from them with him in it.  And I got a album out of him, with huge contributions from him on it.

I don't like the baggage of the Paul situation in 1994, and don't see how Axl could have handled it any worse.

Having said that, after seeing him as the Yoko Ono of my favorite band for almost 15 years, I did have to re-evaluate after seeing how involved he was in the production of CD.  You never really know who did what, but he's all over the production credits on a lot of songs I wound up liking.

Can't turn back time or unring that bell.  But I don't think its fair to judge him solely on that one unfortunate episode at the beginning of his tenure, which he may not have even had all that much say in, anyway.

[D-GenerationX]

I personally think there were numerous complex issues here, too many to arbitarily assign blame to ONE member as you are attempting to do here - per your usual schtick.

I don't blame Axl one bit for showing little interest in the Snakepit stuff.

If that wound up being GNR's follow up to the UYI albums, I'd have been asking what the hell happened here.  It would have been a step back, to put it mildly.

But no amounts off trying to make this part of some larger conversation will ever obfuscate the point here.  To make Axl's decisions on SFTD, done in secret, and against Slash's express wishes, look any better.  It is was then, and is now, a total dick move that shows a complete lack of respect.

I'd say the same thing about Slash if he snuck back in under the cover of night and fucked with Axl's vocals on his own whim.  Both men were at a point in their professional relationship that such actions would and should seem abhorrent.

[EmilyGNR]

I personally think there were numerous complex issues here, too many to arbitarily assign blame to ONE member as you are attempting to do here - per your usual schtick.

I don't blame Axl one bit for showing little interest in the Snakepit stuff.

If that wound up being GNR's follow up to the UYI albums, I'd have been asking what the hell happened here.  It would have been a step back, to put it mildly.

But no amounts off trying to make this part of some larger conversation will ever obfuscate the point here.  To make Axl's decisions on SFTD, done in secret, and against Slash's express wishes, look any better.  It is was then, and is now, a total dick move that shows a complete lack of respect.

I'd say the same thing about Slash if he snuck back in under the cover of night and fucked with Axl's vocals on his own whim.  Both men were at a point in their professional relationship that such actions would and should seem abhorrent.

There were numerous "dick moves" going on in the same time period, the songs Slash had written for GNR but reclaimed and used were nearly a legal matter-lot of bad blood all around.

Slash's guitar work was not obfuscated, Paul's was merely added on.

I think it is honestly ridiculous, uninformed, and biased to continually try to place more blame on a particular member for the breakup- .

[rebelhipi]

Looking back Slash made little effort to make things work. His demos werent good enough to be the next guns record. He reacts by making the record with half of guns n roses anyway.
6 months later, He was not happy with the new guitar players that was brought in. Fair thing.
Slash reacts by going on tour with the old guitar player and talking  shit about Axl and Paul in numerous interviews.

[jarmo]

But no amounts off trying to make this part of some larger conversation will ever obfuscate the point here.  To make Axl's decisions on SFTD, done in secret, and against Slash's express wishes, look any better.  It is was then, and is now, a total dick move that shows a complete lack of respect.

I'd say the same thing about Slash if he snuck back in under the cover of night and fucked with Axl's vocals on his own whim.  Both men were at a point in their professional relationship that such actions would and should seem abhorrent.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Axl didn't "fuck with" Slash's guitar tracks. The comparison is a crappy one.
A better comparison would be if Slash had got his friend to sing co-vocals on the track.

But then again, not even that would be a good comparison considering we're ignoring all the things that lead to that event....

What was the alternative? The so called best case scenario? Tto let Slash decide who plays what? And that's more fair how than what happened?

We're talking about a song Slash didn't even wanna do. To begin with, here's a song he doesn't wanna record. Then, he agrees to do it and if that's not bad enough to have to do something he originally didn't wanna do, he's also not deciding who plays on it.... It's easy to see why this became a big bad deal for some.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Slash's guitar work was not obfuscated, Paul's was merely added on.

I think it is honestly ridiculous, uninformed, and biased to continually try to place more blame on a particular member for the breakup- .

Good thing no one said that then.  What was said was that Axl handled that situation poorly, the situation with the SFTD single.  That's it.

If you disagree, you disagree.  If you see no problem with him doing something behind Slash's back after being told directly it was not the way Slash wanted to proceed, then you see no problem.  If you don't think that's a dick move, then you don't think its a dick move.

I simply can't join you there.

A dick move is still a dick move that should be labeled as such.  Whether its your brother, your friend, or yes, even a singer you like.  Doesn't change how much you like them overall, but the solution to addressing the move in question is not to make believe it was on the up and up. 

[D-GenerationX]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Axl didn't "fuck with" Slash's guitar tracks. The comparison is a crappy one.
A better comparison would be if Slash had got his friend to sing co-vocals on the track.

There was a reason he did it in secret while keeping Slash out of the loop.  And I doubt it was because he forgot Slash's phone number.

What was the alternative? The so called best case scenario? Tto let Slash decide who plays what? And that's more fair how than what happened?

You find someone you can agree on.

Or, failing that, you leave Slash's guitar double tracked, the way it was, absent any agreement on a new guy.

In no rational universe do you erase his rhythm track under cover of night and replace it with someone else's.  That's really the point here.

As I said to Emily just a minute ago, if you can convince yourself there is nothing amiss there, we are just never going to agree.

[LongGoneDay]

If Axl really needed to have what Paul ultimately contributed to SFTD, I?m pretty sure he had a guitarist capable of doing so in Slash.
No need to bring anyone else in.
Slash?s opinion of Paul was that he wasn?t a very good guitar player, and in comparison to Slash, he certainly was not.
Duff said Paul was hopeless.
Seeing as how Guns N? Roses was supposedly a band at that point, Slash and Duff?s opinion should have carried more weight than it ultimately did.
A bit shady bringing in someone after the fact. Was it really worth it? I mean, did Paul really contribute anything of note to the song?
I don?t think anyone was pressing rewind and cranking the volume to hear that epic playing by Paul again.

Listening to the song, do I personally think it was big deal? Not really. But Slash and Duff did, and that?s what matters.

As for the overall song. I like it.
It?s not as good as the original, but that?s an awfully high bar.
Slash?s playing is great, and Axl?s vocals are fucking killer.