What Is You LineUp Favorite For 2016 ?

[carmiedisco12]

I don't think the band members meet the dictionary definition of hired hand. However they certainly meet the colloquial definition. The members of the band:

- Do not have any meaningful input of when an album gets released (see numerous complaints from band members on not being able to write or release music)
- Have no legal rights to the name
- Many of them were clearly hired to either act as session muso's in the case of Bumblefoot and perhaps  with Ashba seemingly hired with the sole intention as backing musicians to perform live

etc, etc, etc.

We can all disagree but whether you view them as legitimate band members with ownership within the creative input and output or whether you view them as hired musicians there to meet the need of an employer is open for debate. It is subjective and unprovable. Therefore to be offended about a term like this on a forum is just bizarre IMO.

Emily deliberately gets bogged down in semantics over crap like hired hands, or original band etc purely as a method of distracting discussion away from reality. It really lowers the tone of discussion on here.

You cannot deny that when known trolls use the term "hired hands" they are making a cheap shot at GNR's expense.

It isn't innocent, it is contrived and intentional.

I'm aware of the actual history, I realize it ruffles the tail feathers of people that don't like the fact that Slash, Duff, and Steven were not original members, but that doesn't change history one iota.

I think it is a bit of a dig but nothing to get upset about the way you do. The view that these guys have not been allowed a chance to shine and have been essentially treated as 'hired hands' has some legitimacy. It's not a 'get out of here' idea. Therefore because it falls within the realms of plausibility who are you to tell off anyone (or get offended for god's sake) if someone uses the term?

If anything I think the term may be used with some sympathy for the guys that were hired and were unable to drag Axl to the recording studio or to add vocals to musical sketches etc.

Either way who cares. It's not blatantly aggressive so let others have a view.

Honestly wasn't upset, trying to gauge emotions from an internet post isn't very accurate .

It's annoying when some trolls parade out the same offensive idiocy and terminology day after day, it is tiring.

Please provide proof for your claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches".

I'm too lazy and disinterested to go searching for quotes etc and even then you would likely just dismiss them. But surely you recall Ashba stating he send multiple songs to Axl and what became of them? He left. Bumblefoot complaining for ages that nothing was being done musically and trying his little heart out to get the band to write and release music? The number of people involved with CD that stated getting Axl to complete things or put vocals down was traumatic? Slash and Duff stating that Axl often never showed and when he did he wouldn't sing?

This isn't 'proof' but considering the band has released 1 album in forever then I would strongly suggest the onus of proof is with those who claim Axl IS productive and not the other way round.

As Jarmo put is so well in another post (I paraphrase ' Sometimes the simplest answer is the accurate one and we don't need to construct complicated fabrications to avoid that reality'.

[EmilyGNR]

I don't think the band members meet the dictionary definition of hired hand. However they certainly meet the colloquial definition. The members of the band:

- Do not have any meaningful input of when an album gets released (see numerous complaints from band members on not being able to write or release music)
- Have no legal rights to the name
- Many of them were clearly hired to either act as session muso's in the case of Bumblefoot and perhaps  with Ashba seemingly hired with the sole intention as backing musicians to perform live

etc, etc, etc.

We can all disagree but whether you view them as legitimate band members with ownership within the creative input and output or whether you view them as hired musicians there to meet the need of an employer is open for debate. It is subjective and unprovable. Therefore to be offended about a term like this on a forum is just bizarre IMO.

Emily deliberately gets bogged down in semantics over crap like hired hands, or original band etc purely as a method of distracting discussion away from reality. It really lowers the tone of discussion on here.

You cannot deny that when known trolls use the term "hired hands" they are making a cheap shot at GNR's expense.

It isn't innocent, it is contrived and intentional.

I'm aware of the actual history, I realize it ruffles the tail feathers of people that don't like the fact that Slash, Duff, and Steven were not original members, but that doesn't change history one iota.

I think it is a bit of a dig but nothing to get upset about the way you do. The view that these guys have not been allowed a chance to shine and have been essentially treated as 'hired hands' has some legitimacy. It's not a 'get out of here' idea. Therefore because it falls within the realms of plausibility who are you to tell off anyone (or get offended for god's sake) if someone uses the term?

If anything I think the term may be used with some sympathy for the guys that were hired and were unable to drag Axl to the recording studio or to add vocals to musical sketches etc.

Either way who cares. It's not blatantly aggressive so let others have a view.

Honestly wasn't upset, trying to gauge emotions from an internet post isn't very accurate .

It's annoying when some trolls parade out the same offensive idiocy and terminology day after day, it is tiring.

Please provide proof for your claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches".

I'm too lazy and disinterested to go searching for quotes etc and even then you would likely just dismiss them. But surely you recall Ashba stating he send multiple songs to Axl and what became of them? He left. Bumblefoot complaining for ages that nothing was being done musically and trying his little heart out to get the band to write and release music? The number of people involved with CD that stated getting Axl to complete things or put vocals down was traumatic? Slash and Duff stating that Axl often never showed and when he did he wouldn't sing?

This isn't 'proof' but considering the band has released 1 album in forever then I would strongly suggest the onus of proof is with those who claim Axl IS productive and not the other way round.

As Jarmo put is so well in another post (I paraphrase ' Sometimes the simplest answer is the accurate one and we don't need to construct complicated fabrications to avoid that reality'.

Where does it say as you claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches"?.

What if Bumblefoot was lying, or simply not in the loop? He certainly deceived fans about his status in the band for months.

I don't think not knowing what has been done is sufficient evidence to conclude that nothing is being done, or has been done.

[carmiedisco12]

I don't think the band members meet the dictionary definition of hired hand. However they certainly meet the colloquial definition. The members of the band:

- Do not have any meaningful input of when an album gets released (see numerous complaints from band members on not being able to write or release music)
- Have no legal rights to the name
- Many of them were clearly hired to either act as session muso's in the case of Bumblefoot and perhaps  with Ashba seemingly hired with the sole intention as backing musicians to perform live

etc, etc, etc.

We can all disagree but whether you view them as legitimate band members with ownership within the creative input and output or whether you view them as hired musicians there to meet the need of an employer is open for debate. It is subjective and unprovable. Therefore to be offended about a term like this on a forum is just bizarre IMO.

Emily deliberately gets bogged down in semantics over crap like hired hands, or original band etc purely as a method of distracting discussion away from reality. It really lowers the tone of discussion on here.

You cannot deny that when known trolls use the term "hired hands" they are making a cheap shot at GNR's expense.

It isn't innocent, it is contrived and intentional.

I'm aware of the actual history, I realize it ruffles the tail feathers of people that don't like the fact that Slash, Duff, and Steven were not original members, but that doesn't change history one iota.

I think it is a bit of a dig but nothing to get upset about the way you do. The view that these guys have not been allowed a chance to shine and have been essentially treated as 'hired hands' has some legitimacy. It's not a 'get out of here' idea. Therefore because it falls within the realms of plausibility who are you to tell off anyone (or get offended for god's sake) if someone uses the term?

If anything I think the term may be used with some sympathy for the guys that were hired and were unable to drag Axl to the recording studio or to add vocals to musical sketches etc.

Either way who cares. It's not blatantly aggressive so let others have a view.

Honestly wasn't upset, trying to gauge emotions from an internet post isn't very accurate .

It's annoying when some trolls parade out the same offensive idiocy and terminology day after day, it is tiring.

Please provide proof for your claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches".

I'm too lazy and disinterested to go searching for quotes etc and even then you would likely just dismiss them. But surely you recall Ashba stating he send multiple songs to Axl and what became of them? He left. Bumblefoot complaining for ages that nothing was being done musically and trying his little heart out to get the band to write and release music? The number of people involved with CD that stated getting Axl to complete things or put vocals down was traumatic? Slash and Duff stating that Axl often never showed and when he did he wouldn't sing?

This isn't 'proof' but considering the band has released 1 album in forever then I would strongly suggest the onus of proof is with those who claim Axl IS productive and not the other way round.

As Jarmo put is so well in another post (I paraphrase ' Sometimes the simplest answer is the accurate one and we don't need to construct complicated fabrications to avoid that reality'.

Where does it say as you claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches"?.

What if Bumblefoot was lying, or simply not in the loop? He certainly deceived fans about his status in the band for months.

I don't think not knowing what has been done is sufficient evidence to conclude that nothing is being done, or has been done.

And just as I predicted when I show you what multiple band members have said (or are they lowered to 'Hired Hands' and 'liars' when they no longer back your preferred world view?). You dismiss it. Funny that calling these guys liars is fine but hired hands is so bad?

I can't be arsed debating this but as I said. The onus is on YOU to prove Axl is productive against ALL the circumstantial evidence and the observations made by multiple 'band members, producers over the years.

Go back and read the (paraphrased) quote from Jarmo.

[EmilyGNR]

I don't think the band members meet the dictionary definition of hired hand. However they certainly meet the colloquial definition. The members of the band:

- Do not have any meaningful input of when an album gets released (see numerous complaints from band members on not being able to write or release music)
- Have no legal rights to the name
- Many of them were clearly hired to either act as session muso's in the case of Bumblefoot and perhaps  with Ashba seemingly hired with the sole intention as backing musicians to perform live

etc, etc, etc.

We can all disagree but whether you view them as legitimate band members with ownership within the creative input and output or whether you view them as hired musicians there to meet the need of an employer is open for debate. It is subjective and unprovable. Therefore to be offended about a term like this on a forum is just bizarre IMO.

Emily deliberately gets bogged down in semantics over crap like hired hands, or original band etc purely as a method of distracting discussion away from reality. It really lowers the tone of discussion on here.

You cannot deny that when known trolls use the term "hired hands" they are making a cheap shot at GNR's expense.

It isn't innocent, it is contrived and intentional.

I'm aware of the actual history, I realize it ruffles the tail feathers of people that don't like the fact that Slash, Duff, and Steven were not original members, but that doesn't change history one iota.

I think it is a bit of a dig but nothing to get upset about the way you do. The view that these guys have not been allowed a chance to shine and have been essentially treated as 'hired hands' has some legitimacy. It's not a 'get out of here' idea. Therefore because it falls within the realms of plausibility who are you to tell off anyone (or get offended for god's sake) if someone uses the term?

If anything I think the term may be used with some sympathy for the guys that were hired and were unable to drag Axl to the recording studio or to add vocals to musical sketches etc.

Either way who cares. It's not blatantly aggressive so let others have a view.

Honestly wasn't upset, trying to gauge emotions from an internet post isn't very accurate .

It's annoying when some trolls parade out the same offensive idiocy and terminology day after day, it is tiring.

Please provide proof for your claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches".

I'm too lazy and disinterested to go searching for quotes etc and even then you would likely just dismiss them. But surely you recall Ashba stating he send multiple songs to Axl and what became of them? He left. Bumblefoot complaining for ages that nothing was being done musically and trying his little heart out to get the band to write and release music? The number of people involved with CD that stated getting Axl to complete things or put vocals down was traumatic? Slash and Duff stating that Axl often never showed and when he did he wouldn't sing?

This isn't 'proof' but considering the band has released 1 album in forever then I would strongly suggest the onus of proof is with those who claim Axl IS productive and not the other way round.

As Jarmo put is so well in another post (I paraphrase ' Sometimes the simplest answer is the accurate one and we don't need to construct complicated fabrications to avoid that reality'.

Where does it say as you claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches"?.

What if Bumblefoot was lying, or simply not in the loop? He certainly deceived fans about his status in the band for months.

I don't think not knowing what has been done is sufficient evidence to conclude that nothing is being done, or has been done.

And just as I predicted when I show you what multiple band members have said (or are they lowered to 'Hired Hands' and 'liars' when they no longer back your preferred world view?). You dismiss it. Funny that calling these guys liars is fine but hired hands is so bad?

I can't be arsed debating this but as I said. The onus is on YOU to prove Axl is productive against ALL the circumstantial evidence and the observations made by multiple 'band members, producers over the years.

Go back and read the (paraphrased) quote from Jarmo.

Is it so hard to believe they might not be in the loop?

I said Ron deceived fans by not defining his status, but at no time did I call him a "hired hand".

Read this quote again-

I don't think not knowing what has been done is sufficient evidence to conclude that nothing has been done.

[OscarAxl22]

I don't think the band members meet the dictionary definition of hired hand. However they certainly meet the colloquial definition. The members of the band:

- Do not have any meaningful input of when an album gets released (see numerous complaints from band members on not being able to write or release music)
- Have no legal rights to the name
- Many of them were clearly hired to either act as session muso's in the case of Bumblefoot and perhaps  with Ashba seemingly hired with the sole intention as backing musicians to perform live

etc, etc, etc.

We can all disagree but whether you view them as legitimate band members with ownership within the creative input and output or whether you view them as hired musicians there to meet the need of an employer is open for debate. It is subjective and unprovable. Therefore to be offended about a term like this on a forum is just bizarre IMO.

Emily deliberately gets bogged down in semantics over crap like hired hands, or original band etc purely as a method of distracting discussion away from reality. It really lowers the tone of discussion on here.

You cannot deny that when known trolls use the term "hired hands" they are making a cheap shot at GNR's expense.

It isn't innocent, it is contrived and intentional.

I'm aware of the actual history, I realize it ruffles the tail feathers of people that don't like the fact that Slash, Duff, and Steven were not original members, but that doesn't change history one iota.

I think it is a bit of a dig but nothing to get upset about the way you do. The view that these guys have not been allowed a chance to shine and have been essentially treated as 'hired hands' has some legitimacy. It's not a 'get out of here' idea. Therefore because it falls within the realms of plausibility who are you to tell off anyone (or get offended for god's sake) if someone uses the term?

If anything I think the term may be used with some sympathy for the guys that were hired and were unable to drag Axl to the recording studio or to add vocals to musical sketches etc.

Either way who cares. It's not blatantly aggressive so let others have a view.

Honestly wasn't upset, trying to gauge emotions from an internet post isn't very accurate .

It's annoying when some trolls parade out the same offensive idiocy and terminology day after day, it is tiring.

Please provide proof for your claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches".

I'm too lazy and disinterested to go searching for quotes etc and even then you would likely just dismiss them. But surely you recall Ashba stating he send multiple songs to Axl and what became of them? He left. Bumblefoot complaining for ages that nothing was being done musically and trying his little heart out to get the band to write and release music? The number of people involved with CD that stated getting Axl to complete things or put vocals down was traumatic? Slash and Duff stating that Axl often never showed and when he did he wouldn't sing?

This isn't 'proof' but considering the band has released 1 album in forever then I would strongly suggest the onus of proof is with those who claim Axl IS productive and not the other way round.

As Jarmo put is so well in another post (I paraphrase ' Sometimes the simplest answer is the accurate one and we don't need to construct complicated fabrications to avoid that reality'.

Where does it say as you claim that "guys were unable to drag Axl to the studio or add vocals to musical sketches"?.

What if Bumblefoot was lying, or simply not in the loop? He certainly deceived fans about his status in the band for months.

I don't think not knowing what has been done is sufficient evidence to conclude that nothing is being done, or has been done.

And just as I predicted when I show you what multiple band members have said (or are they lowered to 'Hired Hands' and 'liars' when they no longer back your preferred world view?). You dismiss it. Funny that calling these guys liars is fine but hired hands is so bad?

I can't be arsed debating this but as I said. The onus is on YOU to prove Axl is productive against ALL the circumstantial evidence and the observations made by multiple 'band members, producers over the years.

Go back and read the (paraphrased) quote from Jarmo.

This.

She picks and chooses what side she wants to be on, whenever it suits.

I think she just likes the arguments to be honest mate.

[GypsySoul]

Not trying to play mod here but could you all please STOP quoting the entire conversation.

It's totally unnecessary.

Thanks. 

Edited to add my 2 cents:
As a GNR fan, I personally don't find the term "hired-hand" offensive.  IMO it's similar to Nu-GNR or hired guns.

To argue over it is IMO as silly as arguing over if "original line-up" is Tracii or AFD.

[EmilyGNR]

I can't be arsed debating this but as

This.

She picks and chooses what side she wants to be on, whenever it suits.

I think she just likes the arguments to be honest mate.

No, I am consistently on GNR's side if you haven't noticed yet.

[OscarAxl22]

Not trying to play mod here but could you all please STOP quoting the entire conversation.

It's totally unnecessary.

Thanks. 

Edited to add my 2 cents:
As a GNR fan, I personally don't find the term "hired-hand" offensive.  IMO it's similar to Nu-GNR or hired guns.

To argue over it is IMO as silly as arguing over if "original line-up" is Tracii or AFD.

Exactly. but you are about to kick off a whole new argument with her if you use references like NU-GNR etc 

[OscarAxl22]

I can't be arsed debating this but as

This.

She picks and chooses what side she wants to be on, whenever it suits.

I think she just likes the arguments to be honest mate.

No, I am consistently on GNR's side if you haven't noticed yet.

Listen, to state some of your opinions and obsessions on here are slightly creepy, or whacky would be an understatement.

You caused 2 pages of rubbish on here which looks to have been deleted, try not repeating it and sticking to the topic.

[EmilyGNR]

Not trying to play mod here but could you all please STOP quoting the entire conversation.

It's totally unnecessary.

Thanks. 

Edited to add my 2 cents:
As a GNR fan, I personally don't find the term "hired-hand" offensive.  IMO it's similar to Nu-GNR or hired guns.

To argue over it is IMO as silly as arguing over if "original line-up" is Tracii or AFD.

My .02 is as I stated previously - a certain contingent trots out some terms continually to get their petty little digs in- I have found some utilize both "hired hands" and "NuGNR" in a less than complimentary manner IMO.

There is NO argument as far as actual GNR history goes , it doesn't change even if some would rather ignore it.

[Sosso]

It doesn't have to be CD II, III, or X! It can just be a Guns N Roses album for God's sake!

CD II would be a guns n roses album, with or without Slash.

[GypsySoul]

The line-up I would like to see for 2016 is:

Axl
Dizzy
Chris
Frank
Tommy
Richard
Brian May
Derek Trucks

[EmilyGNR]

The line-up I would like to see for 2016 is:

Axl
Dizzy
Chris
Frank
Tommy
Richard
Brian May
Derek Trucks

I'm a huge Derek Trucks fan! 

Brian May is no slouch either.

[sky dog]

Trucks is a monster....better player than Slash....not really fit for Guns but he is a badass.

[GypsySoul]

....not really fit for Guns but he is a badass.

Same could have been said about every guitarist who was actually in GNR after the AFD line-up. 
 

[Hustlers Revenge]

The line-up I would like to see for 2016 is:

Axl
Dizzy
Chris
Frank
Tommy
Richard
Brian May
Derek Trucks

now that's something! i wanna play too!

axl
dizzy
pitman
frank
duff
fortus

helios creed and
poison ivy

OR

axl
dizzy
pitman
brain
tommy
fortus

ry cooder and
tetuzi akiyama

remember: you read it here FIRST!

[COMAMOTIVE]

Assuming a Slash/Duff lineup - wonder what likelihood of them toying around with a VR song while on stage with Axl

[Princess Leia]

Assuming a Slash/Duff lineup - wonder what likelihood of them toying around with a VR song while on stage with Axl

If Slash and Duff do something VR related it is not gonna be on stage with Axl. They will just follow the same path we?ve seen before with other artists. Meaning unheard VR songs, some DVD and other stuff will be released as some special edition box set.

[D-GenerationX]

I would think there is an equal amount of longshot Axl would have some overwhelming desire to play a VR tune as there is Slash and Duff with CD tunes.

I think if you are willing to believe one, you sort of have to believe the other.  I know the argument will probably be made that CD tunes are "Guns N' Roses songs", but not to Slash and Duff, they aren't.

Performance of any of those tunes, VR or CD, basically comes down to the same premise.  One of the parties from the other side taking an interest and wanting to give it a try.

[Virolec]

Even if Axl wouldn't have a burning desire to sing Fall to Pieces (say), or Slash and Duff wouldn't want to do Chinese Democracy more than anything else in the world, I can imagine that doing so, even if only once or twice would show goodwill, and be a public sign that bridges had been mended.  As when ex-members have come on for a song or two at shows here and there, it would be a nice gesture to show that things are cool.  It need not be more than that.