The Likelihood of A New Album In 2016

[D-GenerationX]

We have all heard stories about the horrors and tribulations that major labels inflict on Artists- why is it so difficult to believe that they are being difficult with GNR?

Its not.  At least, I don't think.

But you almost seem to be describing a scenario where if he can't get everything precisely how he wants, then it never comes out.  And this is somehow noble.

That doesn't make sense to a lot of us.  Every artist wants the best deal they can get, but at the expense of never having your work heard?

Pretty extreme stance.

[jarmo]

It is a matter of post history that a certain few here are consistently critical of Axl, management and all things GNR-always whining, always complaining and always finding things to complain about.

It's only for fun, until you ask them uncomfortable questions and then they accuse you of being angry, followed by personal insults....
Funny, not necessarily fun!  



/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

Not bend over backwards, but certainly understand it?s a negotiation process and he?s going to have to give on a few points.  That?s life.  

My point is that if Axl?s ?negotiating? position is ?I get everything I want? that?s not realistic.  That?s not a negotiating position at all, and certainly not real life?I don?t care if you?re releasing an album or buying a house.  But it seems you would support such a decision as preserving his artistic integrity.  IMO, such a position indicates he has no real desire to release it at all.

Certainly how I see it.

I would put it somewhere between not caring at all and wanting to on some level, but having already made peace in his head it might never happen.

I would think an artist's ultimate goal is to have his work released and heard.  Otherwise, what's the point?  And as you say, everyone goes into a negotiation looking for the best possible deal for their side, which can then either directly or indirectly start things off with the least favorable deal for the other side.  You throw out your wish list, and see how much of it you can get.

But a wish list is just that...a wish.  Yeah, it would rock the house if they just agreed with you right away.  Odds are, they are going to counter offer.  Just as he would towards them.  So that's when you start to see what you can live with and what you can't.

Assuming you do want to eventually see a productive resolution, you will hammer it out.  If you don't care if you get a productive resolution or not, you sit there with a scowl and your arms folded and insist you terms or met, or no deal.

In this case, the label gives Axl your basic "OK, well fuck you then."  Axl says "same to you", and that's that.

Did you stick to your guns?  Did you really show them?  Well...its a spin. 

At the end of the day, they go on with their business while yours stays ground to a halt.  Seems a pyrrhic victory, at best.

How would you know what an Artist's ultimate goal is? Are you an artist? Do you create anything-except the very creative fantasy scenarios and imaginary conversations you post here.

Why is it so difficult for some to see that labels are notorious for being difficult-they have shelved people's albums, they have been known for unscrupulous practices- and is there a bigger label than UMe?

[D-GenerationX]

How would you know what an Artist's ultimate goal is? Are you an artist? Do you create anything-except the very creative fantasy scenarios and imaginary conversations you post here.

Yes, I have the opinion that musicians on the level of Guns N' Roses do so as a business and the ultimate goal of such an artist is to write, record and release their work for public consumption.

You DON'T believe that?

What's the alternative?  He spent $14 million dollars to record stuff no one will ever hear?  He expressly said he did NOT do that.  That was a direct quote, from the man himself.

[EmilyGNR]

We have all heard stories about the horrors and tribulations that major labels inflict on Artists- why is it so difficult to believe that they are being difficult with GNR?

Its not.  At least, I don't think.

But you almost seem to be describing a scenario where if he can't get everything precisely how he wants, then it never comes out.  And this is somehow noble.

That doesn't make sense to a lot of us.  Every artist wants the best deal they can get, but at the expense of never having your work heard?

Pretty extreme stance.

That is merely your speculative nonsense talking again, nobody ever said that "if he can't get everything he wants it is never coming out".

Strawman idiocy.

[D-GenerationX]

We have all heard stories about the horrors and tribulations that major labels inflict on Artists- why is it so difficult to believe that they are being difficult with GNR?

Its not.  At least, I don't think.

But you almost seem to be describing a scenario where if he can't get everything precisely how he wants, then it never comes out.  And this is somehow noble.

That doesn't make sense to a lot of us.  Every artist wants the best deal they can get, but at the expense of never having your work heard?

Pretty extreme stance.

That is merely your speculative nonsense talking again, nobody ever said that "if he can't get everything he wants it is never coming out".

Strawman idiocy.

'

Nobody said anyone said it.  I believe I said that it *seems like* that is what you are describing.

if that's not what you are describing, please feel free to elaborate or correct the record in some way.  Ain't got nothing but time.

[EmilyGNR]

How would you know what an Artist's ultimate goal is? Are you an artist? Do you create anything-except the very creative fantasy scenarios and imaginary conversations you post here.

Yes, I have the opinion that musicians on the level of Guns N' Roses do so as a business and the ultimate goal of such an artist is to write, record and release their work for public consumption.

You DON'T believe that?

What's the alternative?  He spent $14 million dollars to record stuff no one will ever hear?  He expressly said he did NOT do that.  That was a direct quote, from the man himself.

I honestly think the real drive of any artist is merely to create, that, I adknowledge is my perception entirely.

Sometimes negotiations can be difficult, especially if one of the parties is coming from a very powerful positional stance.

Nobody said no one would ever hear it- more strawman nonsense.

[D-GenerationX]

I honestly think the real drive of any artist is merely to create, that, I adknowledge is my perception entirely.

We have a difference of opinion, it seems.  I do not share your view that an artist on the level of GNR creates stuff to not be heard.  And frankly...sold.

I could buy your definition of artist is this was some hobbyist painting pictures of flowers she hangs in her basement.  She's not in it for the loot.

A world famous rock band on the level of Guns N' Roses?  They are.  They weren't given $14 million to stock their basement with paintings of flowers.

[EmilyGNR]

We have all heard stories about the horrors and tribulations that major labels inflict on Artists- why is it so difficult to believe that they are being difficult with GNR?

Its not.  At least, I don't think.

But you almost seem to be describing a scenario where if he can't get everything precisely how he wants, then it never comes out.  And this is somehow noble.

That doesn't make sense to a lot of us.  Every artist wants the best deal they can get, but at the expense of never having your work heard?

Pretty extreme stance.

That is merely your speculative nonsense talking again, nobody ever said that "if he can't get everything he wants it is never coming out".

Strawman idiocy.

'

Nobody said anyone said it.  I believe I said that it *seems like* that is what you are describing.

if that's not what you are describing, please feel free to elaborate or correct the record in some way.  Ain't got nothing but time.

Negotions may be time consuming and difficult- why is this so difficult a concept for some?

The "extreme stance" you have cooked up in your head is fan fiction, you should put that to good use and write a book.

The positive points are that Ume has gotten some new faces since the last Album release and the same people aren't running the show, but you are still talking about a very powerful and almost monopoly of an organization.

[jarmo]

Yes, I have the opinion that musicians on the level of Guns N' Roses do so as a business and the ultimate goal of such an artist is to write, record and release their work for public consumption.

You DON'T believe that?

What's the alternative?  He spent $14 million dollars to record stuff no one will ever hear?  He expressly said he did NOT do that.  That was a direct quote, from the man himself.

Faulty logic at work again.
That sum you quoted isn't for the next GN'R album. So the money spent, wasn't necessarily spent on the next album. Just you twisting facts to fit your agenda.
What's next? You'll start going on about GN'R's reputation of canceling shows because they canceled your show in 2002?
 
Also, artists today, in 2015, since you're the business expert here, I'm sure you know this, there's more to their careers than "write, record, release". Ever heard of a 360 deal? Google it if you didn't.


An artist that creates something, that might be the motivation. Create something from nothing. The motivation might not necessarily be about the business aspect of it all. The actual sales of the art.



/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

I honestly think the real drive of any artist is merely to create, that, I adknowledge is my perception entirely.

We have a difference of opinion, it seems.  I do not share your view that an artist on the level of GNR creates stuff to not be heard.  And frankly...sold.

I could buy your definition of artist is this was some hobbyist painting pictures of flowers she hangs in her basement.  She's not in it for the loot.

A world famous rock band on the level of Guns N' Roses?  They are.  They weren't given $14 million to stock their basement with paintings of flowers.

So you think Axl is motivated by money? I would say you are wrong.

You are mixing up facts as well, but I think your intention is to misdirect.

The fact that negotiations may be taking a while does not in any way mean that the work done will be "horded in some basement"

Very colorful imagination.

[D-GenerationX]

The positive points are that Ume has gotten some new faces since the last Album release and the same people aren't running the show, but you are still talking about a very powerful and almost monopoly of an organization.

This is true.  If things were at this rough a stalemate, some fresh faces can't hurt.

[jarmo]

So you think Axl is motivated by money? I would say you are wrong.

For a guy that thinks he "knows" Axl, and the business. He does come across as pretty clueless....
There's a word for this kind of people, a fan.
Nothing wrong with being a fan. We all are fans. It's just that some think they have an idea.... That's when it becomes a bit too much.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

So you think Axl is motivated by money? I would say you are wrong.

The fact that negotiations may be taking a while does not in any way mean that the work done will be "horded in some basement"

#1, its not being heard by anyone.  Paintings of flowers in the basement, tapes in a vault...what's the difference?  No one is getting anything out of them.

#2, if this isn't about business, then why are they even negotiating?  If Axl was truly content to leave this unheard forever, what are they even talking about, if not business?

And, just as an aside, you are someone that loves calling up old quotes (when it suits you).  Axl has expressly said, as in...as a direct quote, that he did not do all this so it could remain unheard.  

Why are we suddenly glossing over the man's own words?  It was never his intention to leave all this a secret.

[jarmo]

He also said "the art comes first".



/jarmo

[faldor]

In short, yes, I choose to take Axl's side instead of taking the record company's side. Why does it make sense for you to come to a fan site and always point the fingers at the artist? Like if somebody says "Oh, but there's several parts that are involved in all this", you'll be there to remind everybody that it's mostly about Axl. How come? I find it puzzling to be honest.

Yes, let's say the album's done and has been paid for and all that.
Now, the record company wants to make some money. But what they plan, isn't what the artist wants. Who's to blame? Some of you say, it's Axl. No matter what, it's always Axl. Because other bands release music! And other record companies release music every week, they're the good guys. They just want what's best for us music fans and the artists. Everybody knows that.

Some of you basically want Axl to bend over backwards for the record company, as long as you get that album you can listen to and then disregard to repeat the cycle ASAP.... Sorry if that offends some of you sensitive discussion lovers. Fortunately there are fans who aren't that needy. And they can see the other side of the coin.

/jarmo

Not bend over backwards, but certainly understand it?s a negotiation process and he?s going to have to give on a few points.  That?s life.  

My point is that if Axl?s ?negotiating? position is ?I get everything I want? that?s not realistic.  That?s not a negotiating position at all, and certainly not real life?I don?t care if you?re releasing an album or buying a house.  But it seems you would support such a decision as preserving his artistic integrity.  IMO, such a position indicates he has no real desire to release it at all.  

Also, none of us here "always" point the finger at Axl.  That's a bit too dramatic.  Sometimes we do.  I get that that bothers you, but the man in not infallible.  He has, even by his own admission, made mistakes.

How do you know it's Axl's way or the highway? You're making a lot of suppositions. Maybe he's given in on a number of issues but the record company refuses to budge. I'm not sure why you're adamant that Axl is the problem here. CD wasn't released the way he wanted, and he wasn't happy about it in the end. Maybe he's being more careful this time around. He spent nearly a decade creating the album and it was botched. Should he just accept it and agree to do whatever the label suggests? Because they know what's best for him and have his best interests at heart?

[jarmo]

How do you know it's Axl's way or the highway? You're making a lot of suppositions. Maybe he's given in on a number of issues but the record company refuses to budge. I'm not sure why you're adamant that Axl is the problem here. CD wasn't released the way he wanted, and he wasn't happy about it in the end. Maybe he's being more careful this time around. He spent nearly a decade creating the album and it was botched. Should he just accept it and agree to do whatever the label suggests? Because they know what's best for him and have his best interests at heart?

Good points again.

Exactly.
Maybe he learned something last time around and doesn't wanna go through it again? Would anybody blame him? But no, they just want the album. Doesn't matter if Axl's with it or not.


Many of these things have actually been brought up before. I'm surprised the people arguing still wanna argue about it asking the same questions.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

How do you know it's Axl's way or the highway? You're making a lot of suppositions. Maybe he's given in on a number of issues but the record company refuses to budge. I'm not sure why you're adamant that Axl is the problem here. CD wasn't released the way he wanted, and he wasn't happy about it in the end. Maybe he's being more careful this time around. He spent nearly a decade creating the album and it was botched. Should he just accept it and agree to do whatever the label suggests? Because they know what's best for him and have his best interests at heart?

Can't dismiss this.  Absolutely not.

On the other hand...7 years now, man.  I can even grant you that you don't start the clock the day after CD comes out.  Not realistic.

So let's fast forward say, 3 years.  4 years, even.  That still leaves us with at least 3 years, and we are still stuck?  On what?  

Well, that's the rub, we don't know.  So we guess.  Many an argument here stems from how much of the "blame" (for lack of a better word) we put on Axl and his team.  And really, how "blame" is even defined.

[faldor]

It doesn't take too much to excite the fan base, as we're not often given much information. Unfortunately when we go long periods without getting any information, the worst is assumed. It seems that they're trying to be a little more open and fan friendly, but at the same time things seem to change with GNR more than your average band, again for a variety of reasons. So it's a tough line to dance around with how open you want to be with your fans. If you keep promising things and don't deliver, people will stop trusting you. Granted, inactivity and lack of information can do the same thing, but my guess is they want plans to be as close to 100% before they announce them.

But fans aren't looking for chapter and verse.  We don't need stuff as detailed as that memory stick or whatever MSL got his hands on and extorted them over.

Suppose Axl simply tweeted a pic of himself in the studio throwing us a thumbs up.  Just sitting at a board.

People would go bonkers.  If nothing else, it might stop the narrative Axl couldn't find the studio with both hands, a map, a lit miner's helmet.

I guess you could counter argue that's only going to bring more questions.  But, I say, let's cross that hypothetical bridge when we come to it.  Instead, look at what your current approach of total silence is getting you and determining if its ideal.

He basically did that by tweeting that picture in the studio. Again maybe they're waiting until all the I's are dotted and T's are crossed before they get the fan base all into a frenzy. Axl gave the fans an update and an unofficial release date in an open letter to the fans prior to CD's release. That date came and went without a release. So what good did that do? We saw a lot of activity the months prior to CD's release. Maybe that'll happen again over the next calendar year. But I'm not sure what good a sate of the band address would do at this point if there's no concrete plans to announce just yet.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl gave the fans an update and an unofficial release date in an open letter to the fans prior to CD's release. That date came and went without a release. So what good did that do?

I think it did a lot of good, actually.  Reaction to it was very positive.  People were just happy he finally reached out.

And keep in mind, I wasn't here yet.  This was when I only posted ay MYGNR.  Who I don't think I have to tell you, doesn't exactly grade on nearly the curve this place does.  But people were appreciative for the update.

I've been a music fan my whole life, but I have never seen such an aversion to fan outreach like I do with this band.  Its treated like playing Russian Roulette or having a battle of wits with Barzini over where the iocane powder is.