Adler : Slash & Duff Have Doubts About Me

[LongGoneDay]

If think the only criteria should be if Adler is still capable of playing the songs.
Who gives a shit what he says to the media?

They do, I suspect.  And I don't blame them.

You also don't need the bullshit if you have other options.  Steven is hardly a one of a kind irreplaceable part of the operation.  Wasn't like the UYI tour struggled to move tickets without the legendary Steven Adler.

No one gave a fuck.

And now, if a miracle happens 20 years later and Axl and Slash actually patch it up, people are going to be unmoved to get off the couch if there is no Steven Adler?

That's a hill you die on?

Not arguing that tickets will fly regardless if Steven is there or not. Doesn?t make it any less of a sham.
Guess it?s just hard for me to understand how fans of Guns N? Roses could be so disinterested in a legitimate reunion.

Steven?s dismissal is when things started going bad for Guns creatively.
Sure, the Illusions were a massive success, as were the tours, and Matt put his stamp on those songs.
That doesn?t change the fact that Steven was behind the kit for AFD, Lies, and the creation of the majority of UYI songs.

Guns N? Roses creatively face planted without Steven and Izzy around.

I disagree  as I thought the "Illusions" were their best album, and Steven has very little to do with them.  How many songwriting credits did he have?  I know "AFD" credited all 5 band members with songwriting credits, but in your opinion how much do you think Steven Adler contributed to that?  Yes he sat behind the drum kit, great, how many lyrics or choruses did he write?   If you feel the band took a turn for the worse creatively after Izzy left thats an argument that could be made as he was a main songwriter.  But are you saying GNR "creatively face planted" because  Steven Adler left?  Really?  You don't think that might be more of a timely coincidence? 

Dave Mustaine  wrote most of "Kill Em All" and did way more than "sit behind a drum kit" for some ideas that appeared on later Metallica records.  He gets kicked out and immediately creates a new band that becomes one of the most successful metal bands of all time.  If anyone deserves retroactive credit for what a band did after he left it is him, he actually created the style of music Metallica went on to play.  Steven on the other hand is more of someone who was in the right place at the right time.  That is not to rip on Steven, but he has offered little else to prove otherwise.

If you think the Illusions are their best albums, you won?t get much of an argument from me.
But saying Adler has very little to do with them simply isn?t true. He was there for AFD, Lies, and the bones of most, if not all of the Illusions.
I don?t doubt that Sorum helped develop their sound, but it?s easier to add to, than to create, and Adler was involved in the creative process.
How much so? Hard to say.
But what we know for sure is, he basically had a hand in every album the majority of GN?R fans care about.
Spaghetti and Chinese are after thoughts in comparison.

His dismissal undoubtedly affected the chemistry of the band.
Izzy said the band was never the same without him. I believe he said it made his decision to leave the band easier, and when Izzy left, they were done from a creative standpoint.

Mustaine isn?t an apples to apples comparison. He is out in front. Megadeth is his band. It?s easier to quantify what he brings to the table.

What Steven has done since GN?R doesn?t prove anything in my opinion. If it were, one could easily point to any of the alumni?s post Illusions output.
I like/love at least a few songs from Izzy?s solo albums, Slash, VR, Chinese, but wouldn?t hold that material up against classic Guns.
Some here might, but 99.9% of GN?Rs fan base doesn?t. Those albums won?t be making any all time great records lists.

All 5 of them were at the right place at the right time.
With the benefit of hindsight, it?s easy trace back to where it all started to go wrong.

I think deep down they all have to know they have never been as good as they were when they were altogether.
Live, sure they didn?t lose much with Sorum, and I?d love to see him as part of the reunion.
But from a creative standpoint, give me Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven.

It would be cool to route for those 5, 6 to kill it on stage or in studio again.

[DeN]

depends if you want to be in a rock n'roll band, or an entertainment one.

And he was fired why?
He was living the sex, drugs and rock n' roll life. so why didn't they want him in the band?




/jarmo

because he pushed it too far, apparently...plus, I always had the impression that he had some
pretty nasty frequentations involving him in some bad stuff. probably more personal reasons,
like the episode about Erin...but well, that was 25 years ago, anyone can change (I hope)

[DeN]

depends if you want to be in a rock n'roll band, or an entertainment one.

At this level, its a business.  The 5 starry eyed kids coming to save rock n' roll...that shit has been over for some time.

So anyone that is going to jeopardize the business, you don't need.

sure sure that's a business...but it's also an opportunity to the guys to act like a real rock band, to go back where
they started, to feel that energy again and still not compromise...not a cashing machine

[jarmo]

because he pushed it too far, apparently..

So you see, it's not only about being in a rock band and being cool...





/jarmo

[overmatik]

Steven has shown time and time again that he's not reliable. I could see him playing two or three songs at the encore in a some gigs, but nothing more.

It was the same story with Sabbath. Bill is not reliable and the only way for him to tour with the band is with a backup drummer and he won't accept that, and that is why he's out.

[JAEBALL]

You know... this makes for great water cooler talk... but I don't think Steve needs to worry too much about what Duff thinks of him...

No matter how they would agree to move forward with the business of GNR...

Does anybody actually think anything will get done without Axl having final say ?

[D-GenerationX]

You know... this makes for great water cooler talk... but I don't think Steve needs to worry too much about what Duff thinks of him...

No matter how they would agree to move forward with the business of GNR...

Does anybody actually think anything will get done without Axl having final say ?

Of course not.

But if Steven doesn't even have Slash or Duff in his corner, he truly has no shot.

[JAEBALL]

You know... this makes for great water cooler talk... but I don't think Steve needs to worry too much about what Duff thinks of him...

No matter how they would agree to move forward with the business of GNR...

Does anybody actually think anything will get done without Axl having final say ?

Of course not.

But if Steven doesn't even have Slash or Duff in his corner, he truly has no shot.

Most likely true.

Personally... I prefer Matt... I like the guy... but if it happens.. It would be cool to see Steven get to step in once in a while.

I don't hold his demons against him, but he needs to understand if and when it happens without him, that it's of his own doing.

[Bridge]

Steven is the worst drummer the band ever had by a significant margin and he is a completely unreliable pain in the ass. Matt stepped in seemless

Well, we all know opinions are opinions, and THOSE are some opinions!   

My own opinions are the polar opposite.... I have always said that Steven would be regarded today as one of the greatest rock n roll drummers if he hadn't fucked himself up on drugs.  I'm not going to deny that Steven blew his chance and that was his fault, but that doesn't diminish his swing and groove that helped make GNR what it was.

As far as Sorum taking over seamlessly as you (and Billie Joe Armstrong) seem to think, I say bollocks.  Sorum always sounded like a drum machine, either studio or live.  No GNR song ever sounded the same with him behind the drums, and I always felt like Sorum was a placeholder until Steven resumed his rightful place.  (Of course, this was back in the 1990s when I was still Using My Illusions and thinking the original 5 would reunite at some point.  )

Steven's dismissal undoubtedly affected the chemistry of the band.
Izzy said the band was never the same without him. I believe he said it made his decision to leave the band easier, and when Izzy left, they were done from a creative standpoint

"Steven's drumming made the band.  His sense of swing was the push and pull that gave those songs their feel.  After he left, nothing worked."
--Izzy Stradlin
Guitar World, November 1992

What Steven has done since GN?R doesn?t prove anything in my opinion. If it were, one could easily point to any of the alumni?s post Illusions output.
I like/love at least a few songs from Izzy?s solo albums, Slash, VR, Chinese, but wouldn?t hold that material up against classic Guns.
Some here might, but 99.9% of GN?Rs fan base doesn?t. Those albums won?t be making any all time great records lists

I concur.  I'm not going to argue that Steven has done something exorbitant musically since leaving GNR, although I did enjoy his debut album with Adler.  But aside from touring (Duff, Slash, and sometimes Axl), none of the others has done much either.  Izzy never tours and releases tons of albums that have never grabbed me at all.  Duff has Loaded, another band I can't listen to (the fact that Duff sings just kills it).  Velvet Revolver was the strongest outfit of ex-Gunners yet, but died almost immediately, releasing one good album and one terrible album before breaking up just 3-4 years after debuting.  Slash's Snakepit was hot and cold, but mostly cold.  Slash's solo work has been rushed and mostly mediocre, in my view.  The first two albums were decent to good but World on Fire was mostly fucking terrible.  And then there was Chinese Democracy, another hot and mostly cold effort in my book.

So overall, the original Guns N Roses was the sum of its parts.  Even on their best days, no original GNR member can claim a triumphant equal, let alone consistency, to his former work.

[D-GenerationX]

So prefer the live 'Mr. Brownstone' from the Ritz show (which sounds like its being played at double time) to any of the UYI tour live versions that has more of a groove?

[Bridge]

So prefer the live 'Mr. Brownstone' from the Ritz show (which sounds like its being played at double time) to any of the UYI tour live versions that has more of a groove?

All versions of "Mr. Brownstone" that I've ever heard Sorum play sound like clank and smash, and as opposed to rhythmic, whether it's during the UYI tour or at the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.  It's like Sorum feels that splitting the drums in half is more effective than playing the song.

[DeN]

because he pushed it too far, apparently..

So you see, it's not only about being in a rock band and being cool...





/jarmo

sure...maybe I try to defend him because he's the weak one 

[jarmo]

And I think sometimes it's better to keep personal issues private. His best friend from his days in GN'R doesn't wanna hang out with him. Does the world need to know this?
If this interview helps, and they become best friends again, then congrats to Steven!

If not, maybe it would've been better to wait until Slash had time for that coffee....



/jarmo

[norway]

Izzy wont come without Steven I think.

Like rof...

All versions of "Mr. Brownstone" that I've ever heard Sorum play sound like clank and smash, and as opposed to rhythmic, whether it's during the UYI tour or at the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. 

Yeah, and he (Steven) has a vigorous tempo, think about you for example.

At the end of the day, the biggest draw under the name Guns N Roses will always be the original five bad boys..... and no Emily, I'm not talking about Tracii Guns!!!!     

shameless flamebait

[Princess Leia]

And I think sometimes it's better to keep personal issues private. His best friend from his days in GN'R doesn't wanna hang out with him. Does the world need to know this?
If this interview helps, and they become best friends again, then congrats to Steven!

If not, maybe it would've been better to wait until Slash had time for that coffee....



/jarmo

Yes, but Steven has always been outspoken. That`s how he is. If he feels sad because Slash and Duff don`t care about him. He is gonna say that they hurt his feelings.

Do Slash and Duff have any obligation to be friends with Steven? Of course not! But that won`t stop Adler from going public about it.

In my view the problem is that Adler is giving too much credit to something that somebody else told him. Before going public I think Steven needs to ask Slash and Duff if there was any true about things he was told.

And in my personal opini?n I believe that Slash, Duff, Axl and Izzy don`t have the right to cast the first stone against Adler nor against each other.

All of them have many skeletons in the closet. And all of them have fucked up big time in different ways. It is like they are saying "yeah I fucked up but Adler did worst" That doesn`t mean they have some moral superiority over Adler.

[jarmo]

You can be outspoken but still keep certain things private. Which he does.

And yes, we don't even know if these things he mentioned are actually 100% true.


/jarmo

[Top-Hatted One]

If think the only criteria should be if Adler is still capable of playing the songs.
Who gives a shit what he says to the media?

Ladies and gentelmen, from Hollywood, a half assed reunion of the now watered down, and politically correct GN?R! featuring the drummer you?ve never heard of because they are afraid the drummer who?s inclusion would be necessary to consider this a true reunion may say something to the media that could hurt your feelings!

They all had a hand in fucking up one of the greatest rock n? roll bands we will ever see, but if they are trotting out yet another C-list lineup, they can keep my ticket.
I got your back, Steve! (Until tickets go on sale).

Exactly watered down gnr is right. it would be a let down. Just like Can Halen reuniting without Michael Anthony.

I think the best way to do it with justice to the songs is to have both Steven and Matt. Matt plays the illusions stuff. Bongos, background vocals & some acoustic guitar when Steven Plays.

It's been done before. See Samhain

Of course this only happens if Steven stays sober longer. Another slip up as the reunion grows near would put an end to him playing with gnr forever.

Then again Stevens mom will be a major pain in the ass about all the legalities. Maybe it's best to not have have back in he band permanently but just be a guest at a few shows and play some AFD. Or maybe there is a way to keep him on but as a par time member.  I think he would sign off on that and be happy

[D-GenerationX]

Then again Stevens mom will be a major pain in the ass about all the legalities. Maybe it's best to not have have back in he band permanently but just be a guest at a few shows and play some AFD. Or maybe there is a way to keep him on but as a par time member.  I think he would sign off on that and be happy

I believe Axl said that very thing, right?  That his mother was an even bigger pain in the ass than he was?

As for him being happy with a part time role, I can't see it.  He'll bitch and moan.

[Top-Hatted One]

I thought I Read that he would have no issues splitting time with Matt.  I get the feeling he would be thrilled being let into the circle again. He still needs to earn their trust before having any legal say in the matter. If he were to slip up the show would go on with Matt.

[D]

Steven doesn't have the clout or standing to talk like this. He needs to keep quiet, sober, and do his best to earn his way back into whatever.

Yes his drumming on Appetite is amazing.