THEORY - axl saving chi dem 2 songs for possible reunion album???

[D-GenerationX]

Most people consider the players on a band?s debut album as the original lineup.
That is why the media and most people consider Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven to be the original lineup.

Correct.

And for all the people that want to breathlessly bring up Matt, Dizzy, or Gilby...you are right.  Most probably can't name them and don't consider them GNR when asked what the first image that pops into their head is.

But I'd probably also argue most folks would have a tough time getting Steven's name is asked to recall it on demand.  Duff and Izzy, they probably picture for sure, might whiff on a name though.

Guns N' Roses to most folks is Axl and Slash.  Even if we hardercore fans feel that shortchanges Izzy.  Or how we have to take a second and bow our heads to acknowledge Tracii Guns.

Doesn't matter, ultimately.  Guns N' Roses to most folks is Axl and Slash.  This will never change.

[Princess Leia]

Just to be clear..... Once again.

Most of the world refers to the AFD5 as the original band. We all know that.
Why's that? Because they don't care for all the details.

Now, you're currently on a GN'R fan site. That should kinda give you a hint of the level of knowledge of others who are here.
This very site has a special section dedicated to the history of the band. It's like a timeline where you can read all kinds of things that happened and when they happened.

It would be very weird for me to argue, like some of you, that what's written there is in fact totally wrong and they were the super duper original founders of a band.


You're free to believe in whatever the fuck you want. If you wanna believe that Slash started Guns N' Roses, fine. If you wanna believe in the tooth fairy, go ahead.
But, and this is a big but, if you come here and expect support for your wrong facts, you're not gonna get it.




The bottom line is, nobody gets upset when you refer to the old band as the original band. It's a popular opinion, even though technically it's not 100% true. But, if you come here and start arguing about it, you're arguing with people who might've done their homework on the band's history and it just makes you look a bit ignorant. And this is exactly what some of you are doing. Arguing about it. It's fucking amusing, there's facts and you don't care, you still argue.

So, keep trying to rewrite history. It's going well for you isn't it? You've almost changed it already....



/jarmo

You could build 100 websites and libraries with plenty of facts, details and technicalities. That won?t change how people feel and what people believe.

I will not give credit where credit is not due. Tracii, Ole and Rob meant nothing or very Little in the bans`s history. So it is fair to say that Slash, Duff and Steven are original GN`R

If some of us use the words original GN`R when it comes to Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven we don`t need the fact checking police squad going after us. We should be left alone. That`s all

Funny I could argue that it is a fact that Tommy left the band. And yet there are fans claiming that Tommy didn`t leave. Maybe those people have a crystal ball and they know everything related to Tommy?s life.

Then those people have the nerve to say they are all about facts??? Hilarious!!!

[HBK]

Most people consider the players on a band?s debut album as the original lineup.
That is why the media and most people consider Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven to be the original lineup.

Correct.

And for all the people that want to breathlessly bring up Matt, Dizzy, or Gilby...you are right.  Most probably can't name them and don't consider them GNR when asked what the first image that pops into their head is.

But I'd probably also argue most folks would have a tough time getting Steven's name is asked to recall it on demand.  Duff and Izzy, they probably picture for sure, might whiff on a name though.

Guns N' Roses to most folks is Axl and Slash.  Even if we hardercore fans feel that shortchanges Izzy.  Or how we have to take a second and bow our heads to acknowledge Tracii Guns.

Doesn't matter, ultimately.  Guns N' Roses to most folks is Axl and Slash.  This will never change.

AJjajAJAjjAJ, gREAT

 

[D]

Slash and Co may not have been a part of the original "NAME" of Guns N Roses, but as far as music goes, and last I checked, bands MAKE music, they are original members of the MUSICAL group Guns N Roses that actually did shit musically. so therefore I will always consider them the Originals and those other guys are kind of a technicality, more of a footnote.
Cause I can pretty much guarantee, If GNR had stayed  Gardner, Ole, Tracii and whomever else... This website or none of us would be on here arguing about it.

[EmilyGNR]

Just to be clear..... Once again.

Most of the world refers to the AFD5 as the original band. We all know that.
Why's that? Because they don't care for all the details.

Now, you're currently on a GN'R fan site. That should kinda give you a hint of the level of knowledge of others who are here.
This very site has a special section dedicated to the history of the band. It's like a timeline where you can read all kinds of things that happened and when they happened.

It would be very weird for me to argue, like some of you, that what's written there is in fact totally wrong and they were the super duper original founders of a band.


You're free to believe in whatever the fuck you want. If you wanna believe that Slash started Guns N' Roses, fine. If you wanna believe in the tooth fairy, go ahead.
But, and this is a big but, if you come here and expect support for your wrong facts, you're not gonna get it.




The bottom line is, nobody gets upset when you refer to the old band as the original band. It's a popular opinion, even though technically it's not 100% true. But, if you come here and start arguing about it, you're arguing with people who might've done their homework on the band's history and it just makes you look a bit ignorant. And this is exactly what some of you are doing. Arguing about it. It's fucking amusing, there's facts and you don't care, you still argue.

So, keep trying to rewrite history. It's going well for you isn't it? You've almost changed it already....



/jarmo

You could build 100 websites and libraries with plenty of facts, details and technicalities. That won?t change how people feel and what people believe.

I will not give credit where credit is not due. Tracii, Ole and Rob meant nothing or very Little in the bans`s history. So it is fair to say that Slash, Duff and Steven are original GN`R

If some of us use the words original GN`R when it comes to Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven we don`t need the fact checking police squad going after us. We should be left alone. That`s all

Funny I could argue that it is a fact that Tommy left the band. And yet there are fans claiming that Tommy didn`t leave. Maybe those people have a crystal ball and they know everything related to Tommy?s life.

Then those people have the nerve to say they are all about facts??? Hilarious!!!

What is hilarious is those that struggle to perpetuate a myth even when confronted with the truth.

Nobody is arguing who was more popular, or who contributed more- the point is that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group. Nothing can change that fact and aspect of GNR history, period.

The discussion has nothing to do with Tommy at all, but nice attempt to deflect and distract.

[D]

I disagree with all that. Once those 3 left, it seized even being a group. Because Axl used the same name, in no way makes it the SAME group. Had THOSE guys written songs on appetite, and Slash Duff etc came in and PLAYED their songs... Yes.. I'd call them original members, but since no music from that group was used... The GNR featuring the AFD lineup is in fact the ORIGINAL band.

[EmilyGNR]

Slash and Co may not have been a part of the original "NAME" of Guns N Roses, but as far as music goes, and last I checked, bands MAKE music, they are original members of the MUSICAL group Guns N Roses that actually did shit musically. so therefore I will always consider them the Originals and those other guys are kind of a technicality, more of a footnote.
Cause I can pretty much guarantee, If GNR had stayed  Gardner, Ole, Tracii and whomever else... This website or none of us would be on here arguing about it.

Nobody is arguing popularity or contributions- the actual history of GNR won't change because some find it inconvenient.

You can consider anything you want but that doesn't mean it's factually correct.

[D]

Read my post above your last one.

[EmilyGNR]

I disagree with all that. Once those 3 left, it seized even being a group. Because Axl used the same name, in no way makes it the SAME group. Had THOSE guys written songs on appetite, and Slash Duff etc came in and PLAYED their songs... Yes.. I'd call them original members, but since no music from that group was used... The GNR featuring the AFD lineup is in fact the ORIGINAL band.

Nope, nothing changes the fact that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group. No excuse or straw man arguments will change that one iota.

It is the truth, even if not popular and not known or supposedly accepted by many that prefer the myths and are in denial.

Nothing changes the actual history and you aren't entitled to invent your own facts.

[jarmo]

I will not give credit where credit is not due. Tracii, Ole and Rob meant nothing or very Little in the bans`s history. So it is fair to say that Slash, Duff and Steven are original GN`R

Didn't you call them founding members earlier?

They meant enough to be there for the naming of the band......




/jarmo

[Ignatius]

I disagree with all that. Once those 3 left, it seized even being a group. Because Axl used the same name, in no way makes it the SAME group. Had THOSE guys written songs on appetite, and Slash Duff etc came in and PLAYED their songs... Yes.. I'd call them original members, but since no music from that group was used... The GNR featuring the AFD lineup is in fact the ORIGINAL band.

Nope, nothing changes the fact that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group. No excuse or straw man arguments will change that one iota.

It is the truth, even if not popular and not known or supposedly accepted by many that prefer the myths and are in denial.

Nothing changes the actual history and you aren't entitled to invent your own facts.

History can be interpreted in many different ways too. I don't think people are inventing their own facts here, they are just pointing out something I thought we all agreed on; GNR original members are the ones who wrote, performed and recorded the music of their first album.

In my opinion Emily, you try very hard to discredit Slash, Duff and Steven at every chance you got. It seems to me like you've got some kind of ulterior motive to downgrade Slash's (and Duff and Steven) contributions to this band's artistic and commercial success. Really, why is it so hard to give credit when credit is due?

I had to go back to the GNR history on this very same site to check the so-called facts. Honest question, aren't you confused with the multiple line-up changes all the bands leading to GNR had? I sure am. Yes, it's true the name Guns N' Roses was decided on March 26th and the members then were Axl, Izzy, Tracii, Ole and Gardner. Does that make them the original members ?

One things is for sure, after checking this band's history this is what stands out the most: There were more line-up changes pre-GNR than post GNR!

History with this band, as with everything else regarding our favorite group, it's quite unique. Please check the numerous line-up changes the other bands had during the previous year. We have Hollywood Rose, then The New Hollywood Rose (with Slash and Steven), LA GUNS, then Hollywood Rose reunites again, then go back to LA Guns again with Tracii, then it's finally Guns N' Roses. 

Slash, Duff and Steven re-joined Axl and Izzy once the band had decided its name. Does it mean it was already a "band" per se? As far as I know, Tracii didn't even show up to rehearsal, so he wasn't involved..., I don't know what happened with Ole and Gardner though...were they fired? or they just walk away?

If you want to be picky, the original members could also feature Chris Webber, Johnny Kreiss, Steven Darrow... in one way or another, all these multiple line-up changes lead to the ultimate line-up that would record the songs of the biggest and most successful debut album ever made. Guns N' Roses with Tracii, Ole and Gardner didn't last more than 3 months.  If you consider them original members because one day Axl said .."hey, let's name this band Guns N' Roses.., you dig it guys?", "Sure Axl, let's get more wine man, ok?" and that makes them in your eyes "the originals", whatever floats your boat, Emily.

[jarmo]

If you have a team, who start the season. The results are not that good. Somebody gets traded,. Players are therefore replaced. Then at the end of the season, the team eventually wins the championship.

So it's fair to say the players of the team who started the season are insignificant?


For the umpteenth time, I'm not trying to start a Tracii Guns fan club here or discredit anything the AFD5 did.
But when you have a linear history, taking something out of the equation, means the end result might be different. For example, maybe the only things Tracii and the others contributed were the origin of the name and quitting in order to leave an open spots for others, who then helped the band become what we all got to know later on.

This is basically what some are doing. Claiming certain people were insignificant, not important and so on.

Isn't this what some say about Steven Adler, for example? That AFD could've been a hit album with a different drummer? Clearly, this way of thinking that you can take somebody, or some members, out of the equation can be applied to other (former) members of the band as well. Does that bother you? Of course it does, you don't like when people that say those kinds of things. But you're doing the same exact thing yourself in order to "protect" your favorite members.




/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

I will not give credit where credit is not due. Tracii, Ole and Rob meant nothing or very Little in the bans`s history. So it is fair to say that Slash, Duff and Steven are original GN`R

Didn't you call them founding members earlier?

The meant enough to be there for the naming of the band......




/jarmo

I was talking about two foundation. Take for example New York. The Dutch not the British got there first. Yet the British got there later. And it became a British colony.  That doesn`t change the fact that New York was one of 13 original British colonies despite the fact that the Dutch were there before. And in New York everyone knows about the Dutch and their State flag has one orange bar because of the Dutch.

I think this is pretty much the case with GN`R

And again people are very concerned about this fact but no so much with other facts like the Tommy status in the band

[jarmo]

Yeah, Tommy is also a founding original member! 



/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

Yeah, Tommy is also a founding original member! 



/jarmo

Don`t play smart ass. You know what I meant with the Tommy example

[jarmo]

You mean original founding smart ass? 




/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

I disagree with all that. Once those 3 left, it seized even being a group. Because Axl used the same name, in no way makes it the SAME group. Had THOSE guys written songs on appetite, and Slash Duff etc came in and PLAYED their songs... Yes.. I'd call them original members, but since no music from that group was used... The GNR featuring the AFD lineup is in fact the ORIGINAL band.

Nope, nothing changes the fact that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group. No excuse or straw man arguments will change that one iota.

It is the truth, even if not popular and not known or supposedly accepted by many that prefer the myths and are in denial.

Nothing changes the actual history and you aren't entitled to invent your own facts.

History can be interpreted in many different ways too. I don't think people are inventing their own facts here, they are just pointing out something I thought we all agreed on; GNR original members are the ones who wrote, performed and recorded the music of their first album.

In my opinion Emily, you try very hard to discredit Slash, Duff and Steven at every chance you got. It seems to me like you've got some kind of ulterior motive to downgrade Slash's (and Duff and Steven) contributions to this band's artistic and commercial success. Really, why is it so hard to give credit when credit is due?

I had to go back to the GNR history on this very same site to check the so-called facts. Honest question, aren't you confused with the multiple line-up changes all the bands leading to GNR had? I sure am. Yes, it's true the name Guns N' Roses was decided on March 26th and the members then were Axl, Izzy, Tracii, Ole and Gardner. Does that make them the original members ?

One things is for sure, after checking this band's history this is what stands out the most: There were more line-up changes pre-GNR than post GNR!

History with this band, as with everything else regarding our favorite group, it's quite unique. Please check the numerous line-up changes the other bands had during the previous year. We have Hollywood Rose, then The New Hollywood Rose (with Slash and Steven), LA GUNS, then Hollywood Rose reunites again, then go back to LA Guns again with Tracii, then it's finally Guns N' Roses. 

Slash, Duff and Steven re-joined Axl and Izzy once the band had decided its name. Does it mean it was already a "band" per se? As far as I know, Tracii didn't even show up to rehearsal, so he wasn't involved..., I don't know what happened with Ole and Gardner though...were they fired? or they just walk away?

If you want to be picky, the original members could also feature Chris Webber, Johnny Kreiss, Steven Darrow... in one way or another, all these multiple line-up changes lead to the ultimate line-up that would record the songs of the biggest and most successful debut album ever made. Guns N' Roses with Tracii, Ole and Gardner didn't last more than 3 months.  If you consider them original members because one day Axl said .."hey, let's name this band Guns N' Roses.., you dig it guys?", "Sure Axl, let's get more wine man, ok?" and that makes them in your eyes "the originals", whatever floats your boat, Emily.

I'm well aware of GNR history, have been a GNR fan since late 80's, no kid here, not confused about a thing- nice attempt at condescension.

I like facts and reality- the actual history of the group easily shows that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group-
Period.

I don't think actual history is open to interpretation.

I'm sorry that upsets you, and I'm sorry you are in denial but if you look at actual GNR history and stick to facts you can clearly see this is true, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

I'm not saying they were more popular, I'm not saying that they contributed more, those are ridiculous arguments-
I'm also not attempting to discredit anyone- nice misinterpretation.

The fact remains that 3 members joined a pre-existing group that included Axl and Izzy- so I look at them as the founders in all reality- but you feel free to go with whatever fantasy floats your boat Ignatius.

[Bridge]

What is hilarious is those that struggle to perpetuate a myth even when confronted with the truth.

No, what's hilarious is that people like you pointlessly bring up subjects that nobody gives a damn about.  The fans who say Slash, Axl, Steven, Duff, and Izzy are the original members of Guns N Roses are NOT trying to rewrite history....

THEY JUST DON'T CARE!

And THAT is the point that YOU can't get through your head!

For the last 28 years, I've referred to Axl, Slash, Steven, Duff, and Izzy as the ORIGINAL lineup.  I'll spend the next 28 years doing the same thing.  Not because I am ignorant of Rob Gardner, Tracii Guns, or the late Ole Beich, but....

BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!   

Your attempts at "correcting" people are abrasive, condescending, and ultimately ineffectual for the reasons I just gave you.  The only point you're proving is that you don't have anything better to do than offer pedantic lectures on the technical meaning of the word "original".

Nobody cares what existed before Appetite.  People see THAT as the beginning of Guns N Roses because that was the beginning of their love affair with Guns N Roses.  THAT'S IT.  THAT'S THE WAY IT IS!  NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE REST!

Except of course, for people like you who love to pick fights and senselessly bludgeon everybody else about the meaning of the word "original".

I like facts and reality- the actual history of the group easily shows that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group-
Period.

I'm also not attempting to discredit anyone- nice misinterpretation.

Actually Emily, it isn't a misinterpretation.

First of all, without the internet, nobody would remember or care that anybody prior to the Appetite lineup had anything to do with Guns N Roses.

Secondly, the overwhelming majority of people who mention Tracii, Ole, or Rob are indeed doing so to discredit Slash, Duff, and Steven.  How so?  Because there is absolutely no point or purpose to even mention their names otherwise.  They contributed NOTHING to Guns N Roses.  Ole Beich only played ONE SHOW.  Tracii and Rob barely lasted longer than that.  The only manner of mentioning these guys is to discredit Duff, Steven, and Slash.... most people use it as a means of defending Axl's revolving door lineups.  You know, "Buckethead wasn't an original member?  Oh yeah??  Well don't you know SLASH wasn't an original member either???   

BUT...... if you want to throw around the words "facts", "reality", and "history", I got some for ya!   

1. Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy signed with Geffen Records on March 26, 1986..... thus making THEM the FIRST and ORIGINAL lineup of Guns N Roses from a LEGAL standpoint.

2. Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy wrote all the ORIGINAL Guns N Roses songs together in their shitbox rehearsal space in Hollywood.  This includes modifying any existing material (namely "Anything Goes") that existed before the five of them were together.

3. Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy were the FIRST and ORIGINAL five members to record under the Guns N Roses' name; doing so on the ORIGINAL Guns N Roses releases, Live! Like A Suicide and later Appetite for Destruction.

4. History also tells us Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy became the ORIGINAL five guys that defined the name GUNS N ROSES, regardless of who briefly performed under the GNR banner at a few shows in 1985.  To this day, no GNR lineup before or after has ever defined Guns N Roses more than the Appetite lineup.  They are the ones that ORIGINALLY drove the spirit and music of Guns N Roses into the fans' hearts.

And those are the manners by which the majority of fans define the word "ORIGINAL".  They don't use mindless technicalities, and THAT is a "reality".   

Didn't you call them founding members earlier?

They meant enough to be there for the naming of the band......

No, actually Axl claims HE alone named the band.  Tracii Guns of course disputes that, but if we assume Axl is telling the truth, then consider his past comments where he claims that he named the band, and had agreements with everybody else that he would keep the name if they broke up.  Axl went on to say that bands broke up all the time and they knew they might break up next week.  So based on Axl's assertions about the name origins, I'd say the others guys didn't mean much at all in terms of "being there for the name".  They could've been anybody -- but the Appetite lineup couldn't have.  The name didn't mean anything until they gave it meaning.

Isn't this what some say about Steven Adler, for example? That AFD could've been a hit album with a different drummer?

Yeah, "Some People" say that.... and Slash, Duff, and Izzy are NOT among them.  Those 3 guys have gone on record giving Steven HUGE amounts of credit for the success of Appetite.  Just read Slash's book, Duff's book, and Izzy comments in Guitar World in November 1992.

[EmilyGNR]

What is hilarious is those that struggle to perpetuate a myth even when confronted with the truth.

No, what's hilarious is that people like you pointlessly bring up subjects that nobody gives a damn about.  The fans who say Slash, Axl, Steven, Duff, and Izzy are the original members of Guns N Roses are NOT trying to rewrite history....

THEY JUST DON'T CARE!

And THAT is the point that YOU can't get through your head!

For the last 28 years, I've referred to Axl, Slash, Steven, Duff, and Izzy as the ORIGINAL lineup.  I'll spend the next 28 years doing the same thing.  Not because I am ignorant of Rob Gardner, Tracii Guns, or the late Ole Beich, but....

BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!   

Your attempts at "correcting" people are abrasive, condescending, and ultimately ineffectual for the reasons I just gave you.  The only point you're proving is that you don't have anything better to do than offer pedantic lectures on the technical meaning of the word "original".

Nobody cares what existed before Appetite.  People see THAT as the beginning of Guns N Roses because that was the beginning of their love affair with Guns N Roses.  THAT'S IT.  THAT'S THE WAY IT IS!  NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE REST!

Except of course, for people like you who love to pick fights and senselessly bludgeon everybody else about the meaning of the word "original".

I like facts and reality- the actual history of the group easily shows that Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing group-
Period.

I'm also not attempting to discredit anyone- nice misinterpretation.

Actually Emily, it isn't a misinterpretation.

First of all, without the internet, nobody would remember or care that anybody prior to the Appetite lineup had anything to do with Guns N Roses.

Secondly, the overwhelming majority of people who mention Tracii, Ole, or Rob are indeed doing so to discredit Slash, Duff, and Steven.  How so?  Because there is absolutely no point or purpose to even mention their names otherwise.  They contributed NOTHING to Guns N Roses.  Ole Beich only played ONE SHOW.  Tracii and Rob barely lasted longer than that.  The only manner of mentioning these guys is to discredit Duff, Steven, and Slash.... most people use it as a means of defending Axl's revolving door lineups.  You know, "Buckethead wasn't an original member?  Oh yeah??  Well don't you know SLASH wasn't an original member either???   

BUT...... if you want to throw around the words "facts", "reality", and "history", I got some for ya!   

1. Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy signed with Geffen Records on March 26, 1986..... thus making THEM the FIRST and ORIGINAL lineup of Guns N Roses from a LEGAL standpoint.

2. Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy wrote all the ORIGINAL Guns N Roses songs together in their shitbox rehearsal space in Hollywood.  This includes modifying any existing material (namely "Anything Goes") that existed before the five of them were together.

3. Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy were the FIRST and ORIGINAL five members to record under the Guns N Roses' name; doing so on the ORIGINAL Guns N Roses releases, Live! Like A Suicide and later Appetite for Destruction.

4. History also tells us Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy became the ORIGINAL five guys that defined the name GUNS N ROSES, regardless of who briefly performed under the GNR banner at a few shows in 1985.  To this day, no GNR lineup before or after has ever defined Guns N Roses more than the Appetite lineup.  They are the ones that ORIGINALLY drove the spirit and music of Guns N Roses into the fans' hearts.

And those are the manners by which the majority of fans define the word "ORIGINAL".  They don't use mindless technicalities, and THAT is a "reality".   

Didn't you call them founding members earlier?

They meant enough to be there for the naming of the band......

No, actually Axl claims HE alone named the band.  Tracii Guns of course disputes that, but if we assume Axl is telling the truth, then consider his past comments where he claims that he named the band, and had agreements with everybody else that he would keep the name if they broke up.  Axl went on to say that bands broke up all the time and they knew they might break up next week.  So based on Axl's assertions about the name origins, I'd say the others guys didn't mean much at all in terms of "being there for the name".  They could've been anybody -- but the Appetite lineup couldn't have.  The name didn't mean anything until they gave it meaning.

Isn't this what some say about Steven Adler, for example? That AFD could've been a hit album with a different drummer?

Yeah, "Some People" say that.... and Slash, Duff, and Izzy are NOT among them.  Those 3 guys have gone on record giving Steven HUGE amounts of credit for the success of Appetite.  Just read Slash's book, Duff's book, and Izzy comments in Guitar World in November 1992.

Upset much?

1.)Nothing you have said changes the fact that GNR existed before Slash, Duff, and Steven joined.

2.)I mentioned nothing about more popular, lasted longer, contributed more or any other absolutely ridiculous point you attempt to drag in.

3.)Absolutely nobody is arguing about what lineup got signed, nor attempting to discredit anyone. Straw man argument.

I'm very aware of GNR history, but thank you for attempting to educate me- 

I especially like this line-

"First of all, without the internet, nobody would remember or care that anybody prior to the Appetite lineup had anything to do with Guns N Roses."

Total and absolute rubbish, it may amaze you that some of us actually read books- shocker eh? 

[jarmo]

They meant enough to be there for the naming of the band......

No, actually Axl claims HE alone named the band.  Tracii Guns of course disputes that, but if we assume Axl is telling the truth, then consider his past comments where he claims that he named the band, and had agreements with everybody else that he would keep the name if they broke up.  Axl went on to say that bands broke up all the time and they knew they might break up next week.  So based on Axl's assertions about the name origins, I'd say the others guys didn't mean much at all in terms of "being there for the name".  They could've been anybody -- but the Appetite lineup couldn't have.  The name didn't mean anything until they gave it meaning

Yeah, but what I said was, they were there when the band was named. Not that Rob or Ole named it. Sorry for the confusion.

I've lost count on how many times I've pointed out that I never made claims that the people who were there when the band was founded had a bigger, or even equal role, in the band's history as the ones who recorded AFD. Yet, some of you keep going on and on about it...

For the record, stating that five guys started a band called Guns N' Roses does not in any shape or form mean that what two of those guys achieved with three other guys, is worth any less.
So, you can keep repeating all that "the name meant nothing until Duff, Slash and Steven made the band what it became" routine until the day after the end of time. Nobody made any other claims.

Some fans on a fan site just pointed out the actual history of the band we're fans of, instead of acknowledging the facts, some keep repeating the same old "it was nothing". Yeah, it wasn't much, it was an unknown band with a cool name.... A name they decided to stick with instead of changing it back to the New Hollywood Rose, or something.

Isn't this what some say about Steven Adler, for example? That AFD could've been a hit album with a different drummer?

Yeah, "Some People" say that.... and Slash, Duff, and Izzy are NOT among them.  Those 3 guys have gone on record giving Steven HUGE amounts of credit for the success of Appetite.  Just read Slash's book, Duff's book, and Izzy comments in Guitar World in November 1992.

Certain fans.
I read the books, don't worry. Ironically Slash's book talks about how GN'R started....


Those insignificant guys are even mentioned on Wikipedia. How upsetting is that? I mean, nobody cares right?



/jarmo