THEORY - axl saving chi dem 2 songs for possible reunion album???

[BOILER GUNZ]

If slash were to start riffing off some of the CD material here or there at his shows then that would interesting and perhaps telling?

[EmilyGNR]

It isn't semantics, those are facts.

On paper?  In a vacuum?  Technically? 

Yes, whichever of those phrases you pick to preface your comment that Slash of Duff are not true blue original members, you are correct.

But where does it resonate?  An argument's impact is only as good as its plausibility in the eyes of the folks.

Take one of your other standbys.  How you must be at a Guns N' Roses concert because...why, look right here!  Its says Guns N' Roses on my ticket!!

Paper, vaccum, technically...true.

Accepted by many people?  Not really.  Doesn't make you wrong, but I think its well fair to ask what you are really accomplishing past a "just sayin'" sort of retort that will be rejected by the many.

The truth remains the truth even if many are willfully ignorant or prefer lies.

[EmilyGNR]

If slash were to start riffing off some of the CD material here or there at his shows then that would interesting and perhaps telling?

I'm going to watch every single show he does on this tour looking for that. 

[jarmo]

The truth remains the truth even if many are willfully ignorant or prefer lies.

That's... True.
Popular opinion doesn't change facts....





/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

Ironically, I think Slash would crush that particular song.  Of all the songs on the album, that was far and away the one I'd have like to have heard Slash on.

And I think Axl will be amazing in Fall To Pieces, Anastasia or Gotten.

It's all fun and games, having hypothetical discussions.

But you forgot one fact. Anything released on Chinese Democracy is by Guns N' Roses.
The other songs are not.




/jarmo

So? They could cover those songs. The same way they have covered other songs by other artists. Again there is no obligation

[JAEBALL]

The truth remains the truth even if many are willfully ignorant or prefer lies.

That's... True.
Popular opinion doesn't change facts....





/jarmo

Saying Traci and Ole were the original remembers is flaming the discussion...it is going to get the same reaction until the end of time ... whether its a "fact" or not.

I truly don't care about them in any way...nobody does.

As to this discussion... it's a pure guessing game... nobody will ever know why this album or past albums have taken so long to be released. The one guy with the answers... doesn't appear to be spilling the beans any time soon.

I doubt he is considering holding on to the songs to see what Slash could do with them...Slash didn't care for these songs 20 years ago... don't know why he would now... but who the hell knows.

[jarmo]

So? They could cover those songs. The same way they have covered other songs by other artists. Again there is no obligation

Why?

The point I was trying to make is that it's more likely you'll hear something released by Guns N' Roses at a concert than something that wasn't released by GN'R.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

If slash were to start riffing off some of the CD material here or there at his shows then that would interesting and perhaps telling?

Astounding.

[D-GenerationX]

The point I was trying to make is that it's more likely you'll hear something released by Guns N' Roses at a concert than something that wasn't released by GN'R.

I would agree.

But I'd also suggest you are talking about something with a 1% chance of happening versus something with 0%.

Not sure there is an appreciable distinction there.

[EmilyGNR]

The truth remains the truth even if many are willfully ignorant or prefer lies.

That's... True.
Popular opinion doesn't change facts....





/jarmo

Saying Traci and Ole were the original remembers is flaming the discussion...it is going to get the same reaction until the end of time ... whether its a "fact" or not.

I truly don't care about them in any way...nobody does.

As to this discussion... it's a pure guessing game... nobody will ever know why this album or past albums have taken so long to be released. The one guy with the answers... doesn't appear to be spilling the beans any time soon.

I doubt he is considering holding on to the songs to see what Slash could do with them...Slash didn't care for these songs 20 years ago... don't know why he would now... but who the hell knows.

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

[D-GenerationX]

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

The conversation was about how most people are under the impression Slash, Duff, and Steven are original members.

They will have had no idea that's wrong before you "correct the record" and then will forget it 30 seconds later.

That was what I was driving at.  Where is the payoff for you on this?  You can say you were right?  Does that have value?

[EmilyGNR]

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

The conversation was about how most people are under the impression Slash, Duff, and Steven are original members.

They will have had no idea that's wrong before you "correct the record" and then will forget it 30 seconds later.

That was what I was driving at.  Where is the payoff for you on this?  You can say you were right?  Does that have value?

I prefer facts over fallacy.

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

[D-GenerationX]

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

Isn't that nuts?

Ever since I'm a kid, when you first get an album, you listen all the way through.

I had a buddy that only got into 'Estranged' because he kept rewinding his cassette to get to 'You Could Be Mine'.

When I asked why it took that to happen, he told that YCBM and DC were the only tunes he listened to on the 2nd side of that tape.

And this was like...a full month after it came out.  Crazy.

[Ginger King]

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

The conversation was about how most people are under the impression Slash, Duff, and Steven are original members.

They will have had no idea that's wrong before you "correct the record" and then will forget it 30 seconds later.

That was what I was driving at.  Where is the payoff for you on this?  You can say you were right?  Does that have value?

I prefer facts over fallacy.

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

Are you saying that back in GnR's heyday, people were referring to Slash, Steven and Duff as joining a pre-existing band?  I don't recall that being the case.  Shortened attentions spans (is that a squirrel?) have nothing to do with recognizing them as being part of the original lineup.  It's a semantics argument that gets you nothing. 

[C0ma]

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

The conversation was about how most people are under the impression Slash, Duff, and Steven are original members.

They will have had no idea that's wrong before you "correct the record" and then will forget it 30 seconds later.

That was what I was driving at.  Where is the payoff for you on this?  You can say you were right?  Does that have value?

I prefer facts over fallacy.

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

I don't have a long attention span, but it is longer than Tracii, Ole, and Rob were in the band...

Look at gnrontour.com Ole did one show, Traci did about 5, and it appears Rob played in 3... all in the span of 1 month, then in June of 85 the AFD lineup played it's first show. So while 'FACT' Ole and Rob are founding members, did they ever have any impact on the band other than they were there for a show? At least Tracii gave GnR part of it's name, but they bailed at the first sign of adversity. Everyone bashes former members for bailing on Axl when he was looking to grow and redfine the musical direction of the band, but early on these three bailed when they found out they were driving too far up the coast. I wouldn't give them much credit for anything.

[C0ma]

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

Isn't that nuts?

Ever since I'm a kid, when you first get an album, you listen all the way through.

I had a buddy that only got into 'Estranged' because he kept rewinding his cassette to get to 'You Could Be Mine'.

When I asked why it took that to happen, he told that YCBM and DC were the only tunes he listened to on the 2nd side of that tape.

And this was like...a full month after it came out.  Crazy.

That is so funny, I had a friend that did the same, except he didn't listen to Don't Cry because it wasn't the version he saw on MTV or heard on the radio. He only budged on Estranged when the video came out then he started giving more and more of the songs a chance when he saw what he was missing.

[EmilyGNR]

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

The conversation was about how most people are under the impression Slash, Duff, and Steven are original members.

They will have had no idea that's wrong before you "correct the record" and then will forget it 30 seconds later.

That was what I was driving at.  Where is the payoff for you on this?  You can say you were right?  Does that have value?

I prefer facts over fallacy.

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

I don't have a long attention span, but it is longer than Tracii, Ole, and Rob were in the band...

Look at gnrontour.com Ole did one show, Traci did about 5, and it appears Rob played in 3... all in the span of 1 month, then in June of 85 the AFD lineup played it's first show. So while 'FACT' Ole and Rob are founding members, did they ever have any impact on the band other than they were there for a show? At least Tracii gave GnR part of it's name, but they bailed at the first sign of adversity. Everyone bashes former members for bailing on Axl when he was looking to grow and redfine the musical direction of the band, but early on these three bailed when they found out they were driving too far up the coast. I wouldn't give them much credit for anything.

Once again- not really talking about what Ole, Tracii ot Rob contributed nor anything else related to their being in the band at one time for the moment in time they were there, I'm cognizant of what they contributed, how long they were in the band, and why they left and were replaced. I'm aware of the history.

The point I was making is that Steven, Duff and Slash joined a pre-existing band and that Axl and Izzy are founding members. That is an undeniable fact.

[jarmo]

Are you saying that back in GnR's heyday, people were referring to Slash, Steven and Duff as joining a pre-existing band?  I don't recall that being the case.  Shortened attentions spans (is that a squirrel?) have nothing to do with recognizing them as being part of the original lineup.  It's a semantics argument that gets you nothing. 

These kinds of attention spans are also present when people think of Matt and Gilby.....
Do certain people look at them in the same light as Frank or Richard? Of course not....

Should we start the name discussion again? Was it fair for Guns N' Roses to be called Guns N' Roses in 1985 after three members quit the band?
Just kidding.




/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

You missed the point, it had nothing to do with Ole or Tracii- more to do with the fact that Steven, Slash and Duff joined a pre-existing band, and that Axl and Izzy are the founding members.

In a speculative, theoretical conversation such as this, I suppose people want to fantasize about and invent their own facts too. 

The conversation was about how most people are under the impression Slash, Duff, and Steven are original members.

They will have had no idea that's wrong before you "correct the record" and then will forget it 30 seconds later.

That was what I was driving at.  Where is the payoff for you on this?  You can say you were right?  Does that have value?

I prefer facts over fallacy.

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

Are you saying that back in GnR's heyday, people were referring to Slash, Steven and Duff as joining a pre-existing band?  I don't recall that being the case.  Shortened attentions spans (is that a squirrel?) have nothing to do with recognizing them as being part of the original lineup.  It's a semantics argument that gets you nothing. 

Nope, no idea what you are babbling about squirrels, and I never said "people were talking about Slash, Steven and Duff joining a pre-existing band" Your reading comprehension could use some work.

Fact is they did join a existing group- GNR existed before Slash, Duff, and Steven- and exists after them. That is an undeniable fact no matter how much you try and deny it.

[EmilyGNR]

You may be right about people's attention spans nowdays though, and information retention capabilities- they don't even listen to complete albums anymore.

Isn't that nuts?

Ever since I'm a kid, when you first get an album, you listen all the way through.

I had a buddy that only got into 'Estranged' because he kept rewinding his cassette to get to 'You Could Be Mine'.

When I asked why it took that to happen, he told that YCBM and DC were the only tunes he listened to on the 2nd side of that tape.

And this was like...a full month after it came out.  Crazy.

It is crazy, when I buy albums I listen to them start to finsh because the intended sequence of the songs is interesting to me as well as the individual songs.

I think a lot is overlooked when you don't listen to an album in it's entirety.