Why do you love Chinese Democracy?

[CherryGarcia]

I've been pretty up-front with the fact that I'm not the new band's biggest fan or supporter. I will say I loved Oh My God and I do love a few songs off of Chinese Democracy: Rhiad, Shackler's, Catcher, There Was a Time, Better

But I've never been able to love the record. I find the rest of the songs either forgettable or horribly mixed. TiL is ruined by a guitar solo; it didn't need one.

But this is a question for people who love Chinese Democracy - for the people who hold Chinese D as their favorite GN'R record -|
Why do you love it? What about the album or songs speaks to you? What are your favorite songs off the record? What puts it above the rest of GNR's output for you?

[EmilyGNR]

I've been pretty up-front with the fact that I'm not the new band's biggest fan or supporter. I will say I loved Oh My God and I do love a few songs off of Chinese Democracy: Rhiad, Shackler's, Catcher, There Was a Time, Better

But I've never been able to love the record. I find the rest of the songs either forgettable or horribly mixed. TiL is ruined by a guitar solo; it didn't need one.

But this is a question for people who love Chinese Democracy - for the people who hold Chinese D as their favorite GN'R record -|
Why do you love it? What about the album or songs speaks to you? What are your favorite songs off the record? What puts it above the rest of GNR's output for you?

I think most people claiming "they dont like the way it's mixed" or "it's overproduced" are merely mindlessly parroting something they heard someone else say and have no real or actual knowledge  of the mixing/mastering process, and no real knowledge about production.

I don't see where TIL is ruined by a solo, and that matter is subjective.

My favorite tracks are Sorry and Prostitute, a lot of people are unable or unwilling to relate to the introspective vibe of both of those songs and would prefer mindless, shallow, feel-good party music IMO.

My favorite GNR album changes weekly, or daily at times. I enjoy them all, and have numerous non-official compilations as well.

[C0ma]

I think most people claiming "they dont like the way it's mixed" or "it's overproduced" are merely mindlessly parroting something they heard someone else say and have no real or actual knowledge  of the mixing/mastering process, and no real knowledge about production.

I don't see where TIL is ruined by a solo, and that matter is subjective.

My favorite tracks are Sorry and Prostitute, a lot of people are unable or unwilling to relate to the introspective vibe of both of those songs and would prefer mindless, shallow, feel-good party music IMO.

My favorite GNR album changes weekly, or daily at times. I enjoy them all, and have numerous non-official compilations as well.

I take a little issue with the first comment. I'm not parroting anything or anyone when I make similar statements. I from day one have compared CD to Let it Be by the Beatles, CD has the same 'Wall of Sound' philosophy that Phil Spector brought to LIB.
A lot of people want to equate this point of view to me (or others with similar thoughts) hating synth, that isn't the case, it's more the amount of synth, hell even the pure volume of guitar tracks on some of the songs is just plain overboard. I heard recent arguments that 'CD is a guitar heavy album'... great guitar heavy doesn't mean guitar good.
IMO there are several songs on this album that could stand to be stripped down just a tad, also IMO those songs are the best on the album. Catcher, SOD, TWAT, Prostitute... There are other songs that IMO aren't strong enough and need all of the other bells and whistles like Shacklers, Scraped, etc...
With all of that said, it is a great album... I just think the product of all of the time in the studio was too many tweaks and second guessing were the first take might have been the right one.

I have negatively impacted projects at work by spending too much time on them or making too many changes, then I go back to the first draft and realize it was so much better.

[brad1217]

It's an album that gets massively overlooked. I don't really care for citr or rhiad, though they have some redeeming qualities. I think many of the songs hold up to classic gnr. Better is a phenomenal song. The guitar solo is one of my favorites across the board.

[EmilyGNR]

I think most people claiming "they dont like the way it's mixed" or "it's overproduced" are merely mindlessly parroting something they heard someone else say and have no real or actual knowledge  of the mixing/mastering process, and no real knowledge about production.

I don't see where TIL is ruined by a solo, and that matter is subjective.

My favorite tracks are Sorry and Prostitute, a lot of people are unable or unwilling to relate to the introspective vibe of both of those songs and would prefer mindless, shallow, feel-good party music IMO.

My favorite GNR album changes weekly, or daily at times. I enjoy them all, and have numerous non-official compilations as well.

I take a little issue with the first comment. I'm not parroting anything or anyone when I make similar statements. I from day one have compared CD to Let it Be by the Beatles, CD has the same 'Wall of Sound' philosophy that Phil Spector brought to LIB.
A lot of people want to equate this point of view to me (or others with similar thoughts) hating synth, that isn't the case, it's more the amount of synth, hell even the pure volume of guitar tracks on some of the songs is just plain overboard. I heard recent arguments that 'CD is a guitar heavy album'... great guitar heavy doesn't mean guitar good.
IMO there are several songs on this album that could stand to be stripped down just a tad, also IMO those songs are the best on the album. Catcher, SOD, TWAT, Prostitute... There are other songs that IMO aren't strong enough and need all of the other bells and whistles like Shacklers, Scraped, etc...
With all of that said, it is a great album... I just think the product of all of the time in the studio was too many tweaks and second guessing were the first take might have been the right one.

I have negatively impacted projects at work by spending too much time on them or making too many changes, then I go back to the first draft and realize it was so much better.

Interesting comparison, I'm a huge Beatles fan and have a massive collection. I don't think CD was overproduced at all, and it doesn't suffer from the evils of compression like many albums released at the same time frame.

I can definitely see the Spector Wall of sound similarity and comparison. I have played CD countless times-listened through my speaker system as well as through my headphones and sometimes I still catch something new I hadn't heard before. I'm a fan of rich and multitextured music so the CD appeals to me more than the earlier demos, as a general rule.

It is very subjective whether it was "overworked" or "overthought", I love the detail and nuance of the songs and I appreciate the effort that went into it all.

[C0ma]

I can definitely see the Spector Wall of sound similarity and comparison. I have played CD countless times-listened through my speaker system as well as through my headphones and sometimes I still catch something new I hadn't heard before. I'm a fan of rich and multitextured music so the CD appeals to me more than the earlier demos, as a general rule.

It is very subjective whether it was "overworked" or "overthought", I love the detail and nuance of the songs and I appreciate the effort that went into it all.

It is obviously completely opinion based, which is why I would actually love to see an eventual re-release of CD almost in the image of Let it Be Naked... BUT that will never happen because Axl is the Phil Spector in this case.

[chineseblues]

It's just a great fking record that's why! I still have the cd in my car and I do still listen to it almost daily. Great album that for some reason people seem to not understand.

[bazgnr]

I think it's a more consistent record than the Illusions were, but I'm certain most others wouldn't agree.  And "Better" is just a killer, signature song...I still get chills when Axl's voice hits.

[EmilyGNR]

I can definitely see the Spector Wall of sound similarity and comparison. I have played CD countless times-listened through my speaker system as well as through my headphones and sometimes I still catch something new I hadn't heard before. I'm a fan of rich and multitextured music so the CD appeals to me more than the earlier demos, as a general rule.

It is very subjective whether it was "overworked" or "overthought", I love the detail and nuance of the songs and I appreciate the effort that went into it all.

It is obviously completely opinion based, which is why I would actually love to see an eventual re-release of CD almost in the image of Let it Be Naked... BUT that will never happen because Axl is the Phil Spector in this case.

Hope Not, the Phil Spector story had a very dark eclipse.  

The Let It Be Naked album is a great alt to the original, would be interesting to hear a stripped down GNR album.

[C0ma]

Hope Not, the Phil Spector story had a very dark eclipse.  

The Let It Be Naked album is a great alt to the original, would be interesting to hear a stripped down GNR album.

Ya... Phil Spector the producer from 1969, not the Phil Spector that murdered Lana Clarkson...

[HBK]

wHY comming  after UYI

 

[Wooody]

I agree with the person who said, that people say songs on Chidem are overproduced when in fact they are not.
Ive actually thought, some songs where ruined, precisely because someone didnt pay attention to it more than once. And I thought some of the vocals were done on a whim or changed last minute.

01 Chinese Democracy: I like it, some of the best vocals on the album. it felt more like old GNR than the rest of the album. Nice intro to the ''new sound'' if there ever was one'', Nice effects going in, nice effects on the outro.
02 Shackler's revenge  was ok, I like that it was almost like Disco. The mood and vibe of the song as well as some of the effects where hard to swallow at first though.
03-Better - Perfect song ruined by (what a poster said at the time): "the little farts''? someone put some effects in there, that sounds like little farts, and its true, its distracting and they dont do any good. Maybe its the only time I agree its overproduced? that is if overproduced means they thought too many times of putting too many things on the one song. I enjoy listening to the leak more than the version that was released on the cd, which is a shame.
04- The Blues, I mean erm?street of dreams. One of my favorite songs on the album, as recorded. I think its pretty close to the Rock in Rio version I was listening 7 years before the album actually came out. I have nothing but praise on this song! They left it simple.
05-If the world. Sounds like a James Bond score. It ended up on that Leonardo Dicaprio movie about spies. I love the thing about the vocals going from one side to the other, then BADAM BOOM ! it starts again I like the electric solo plus the acoustic guitar. I like to do that on songs myself.
06- Twat I think, and while I love this song and I think its got the climax of the whole album,  I think that Axl never figured out how to sing the first minute and a half. It's like he warms up to the song and then delivers the best vocals on the album. Its weird. Axl Vocals and BH guitar sends chills down my spine. Best song on the album with the best feeling even if it was not perfect.
07- Catcher in the Rye Another song that suffered from the leaks. I actually prefer the leak. it's not that the song was overproduced as much as the effects didnt embellish the song, it should've been kept more simple like The Blues/SOD.  I love the NANANANAHHH. I love how this is the one song that sounds like classic rock the most, great lyrics.
08- Scrapped Awesome ideas, love the dual vocals. They are nailed ! However like Shackler's Revenge, sometimes it feels like a loop. Maybe it suffered from my high expectations, being a song I heard on the album first, not on the leak.
09- Rhiad and the bedouins, I love this song live, and I will always love this song despite its many critics !!It was nicely recorded and didnt stain the live experience I had for many years.
10- Sorry Axl said in an interview that he tried to write better lyrics for this song. But didnt? Like he gave up on trying to write better lyrics. I think the lyrics are mostly very good though I don't like the line ''I kicked your ass like I said that I would'', maybe Axl was thinking about these.
 I love the electric solo again with the back up acoustic guitar.
11- IRS Again, This song was kept in line with the live experience (or leak?) of the song that I had previously. Very cool combo of vocals and solo.."its such a crime you know its truuuuuuueeeeeeee".
12- Madagascar : Madagascar was ruined by (and this is pure speculation) Axl reading internet comments from people saying they liked the raspy vocals better ,so he went and rerecorded the vocals. .  I loved Madagascar from the mtv awarsds and rock in Rio, and I thought the non raspy vocals were better suited for this song. I like the live song better, it has more punch and passion. maybe its because the live performances where like that?..Like KOHD?. its just better live. But I dont like the raspy vocals that ended up in the album.

13- THis I love: This I love is almost perfect. Whoever said the solo shouldnt be there is just crazy. There is one detail that ruins the song for me though. Its like a bad edit, or an non pleasant result from the echo effects? but when axl sings '' and she holds her pain inside''  it ends up sounding like two set of vocals, or Axl Burping or something. Its just for a split second, but I think someone should've noticed and rerecorded the vocals.

14- Prostitute: Its got all kinds of stuff on it, effects violins, etc. But its sounds perfect and nothing out of place.


Overproduced for me is not putting too much stuff on a song. I think overproduced means putting unnecessary stuff on a song. And the only song like I mentioned that feels like that is Better with the little farts and Catcher in the Rye with certain effects.

[GnR-NOW]

To me TWAT is my favorite GNR song of all time. The lyrics are deep and the guitar work by Bucket and Robin is epic. Prostitute, Sorry and TIL are deep songs. Better is a great and deep rocker. I feel IRS is underrated. Scraped isn't my favorite but holds its on the record. If people dislike the record, they were probably influenced by the negative talking points but it's definitely a true GNR album

[TheSyxer]

EmilyGNR is correct here - people throwing around the term 'overproduced' without understanding the concept and end result of the desired sound.

This was always intended to be a multi-layered sound, complex arrangements, lots going on. 

You may not like this style of production, but it's not a simple case of 'they got it wrong, they over produced it'. 

I'm a fan of the production and it works on this album in general.  Not a fan of the way 'Street of Dreams' turned out, but apart from that the sound is great.

Sorry sounds amazing - a cross between Use Your Illusions and early Pink Floyd.

[theseeker]

Early Pink Floyd? Psychedelic? Don't you mean post-Syd Pink Floyd? Or at least post-Meddle Pink Floyd.

[TheSyxer]

You're exactly right - I mean't late Pink Floyd

I listened to their debut today - ThePiper at the Gates of Dawn.  Could never get into it....

[theseeker]

I think it's a more consistent record than the Illusions were, but I'm certain most others wouldn't agree.  And "Better" is just a killer, signature song...I still get chills when Axl's voice hits.

Agree. My favorite songs are TWAT and Madagascar.

[theseeker]

You're exactly right - I mean't late Pink Floyd

I listened to their debut today - ThePiper at the Gates of Dawn.  Could never get into it....

Not surprised. Interstellar Overdrive is one of the greatest songs ever.
You clearly obsess about the wrong things like GnR fans. When you are pming people asking about me
and /or my friends, why not ask about some song selections?

(Edit: spell check is your friend).

[nick6sic6]

I love Chinese Democracy because it was worth the wait,it's a masterpiece.
The Best Guns N' Roses record ? No.
The most hyped and talked about ? Probably.
I woudn't put Rhiad and Scraped but these are good songs too.TWAT,Better,Catcher,TIL are classics by now.

[TheSyxer]

You're exactly right - I mean't late Pink Floyd

I listened to their debut today - ThePiper at the Gates of Dawn.  Could never get into it....

Not surprised. Interstellar Overdrive is one of the greatest songs ever.
You clearly obsess about the wrong things like GnR fans. When you are pming people asking about me
and /or my friends, why not ask about some song selections?

(Edit: spell check is your friend).

Interstellar Overdrive is an interesting piece.  Is a bit 'noise collage' and can be a challenge to listen to as a stand alone.  There was a closing track on a Velvet Underground album which I grew to adore that is similar.  Whenever I listen to the start of Interstellar Overdrive, I think 'Eight Miles High' by The Byrds is going to kick in!

I haven't PM'd anyone about you, I have asked a few older posters about a friend of yours.  I'm willing to admit I'm very wrong in my assumptions in said friend and apologize.

Do you like 'Eight Miles High'?  If you had to summarize en entire era/style/sound/decade with one song, I would pick that one.