Tommy Stinson article - September 2, 2015

[D-GenerationX]

But seriously, you can go to a GNR show, have a great time...And still be disappointed that the band is essentially a stagnant touring act with no new music in the cards. 
That's what they've been since 2011...Until they're not.

The whole thing is so silly.

Premise : There doesn't seem to be much widespread excitement for anything the past few years.  This would at least be something new.

Rebuttal : I was standing on the side of the stage with a lanyard around my neck and saw a guy in the 3rd row rocking out.  So, I'm pretty sure its all good in the hood, smartguy.

Solid answer, right there.

Please.

[sofine11]

And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if the plan isn't to put this stuff out ASAP...Well, why the hell not a reunion?

Its actually become the best reason for it, probably.  By his own inaction, Axl has only further stoked those fires.

Even a guy like me, who has been laughing at reunionists for 10 years, I'm ready to say why the hell not.  What else is really going on here?

Hell, I've been one of the biggest banner wavers for the next album on the boards, really since the touring started in late '09.  But it's been 6 years.  That's a lot of time to spend *not* figuring out how to release an essentially finished album.  And if for all the tea in China Team Brazil & Axl can't figure that out, well, what's the next best thing?

[D-GenerationX]

I think the theater shows in 2012 generated a LOT of excitement (and quite a bit of press). They might be roughly on par with this...though this is getting more press because, IF it's all true......

Likewise, I think the Vegas residencies were exciting to a good number of folks....it's harder to gauge, IMHO, how "big" those were.

The UCAP shows, you mean?  Perhaps.  Though I think even they were trumped by the first residency, probably.

But come 2014, it was sort of a rerun.  They are going to Vegas!! (again)  To play a residency (again!!)  And its pretty much the same show (you liked it before, why not now??)

I'm just coming from the angle that this may all well be a pipe dream.  But its something new.  Its exciting.

Are we really going to compare it to possibly finding our there will be a third residency in 2016, with 2 guys named Harry on guitar?

[pilferk]

The whole thing is so silly.

Premise : There doesn't seem to be much widespread excitement for anything the past few years.  This would at least be something new.

Rebuttal : I was standing on the side of the stage with a lanyard around my neck and saw a guy in the 3rd row rocking out.  So, I'm pretty sure its all good in the hood, smartguy.

Solid answer, right there.

Please.

See, this is where people take exception to some of the things you post. Right here.  Can you spot why, in your premise?

I understand that "premise" is, semantically, "theory"...so maybe it, in itself, is meant to indicate that it's your opinion you're posting.

But you're essentially saying, above: My opinion trumps yours.

That's not really the case.  Your OPINION is there doesn't seem to be much widespread excitement the past few years.

HIS OPINION is that, given his anecdotal observations, that doesn't seem to be true..because he's seen people's excitement levels.  And more than just the denizens of this forum..the people buying tickets.

I'd offer neither trumps the other..so, in essence, it IS a solid answer.  Or at least as solid as the premise provided.

You're asking him to ignore his eyeballs.  He's asking you to ignore your gut feeling. I'd say that's a solid impasse, quite frankly.

[EmilyGNR]

Are you seriously denying the level of excitement around here and the other forums lately?  Can you give me even one example in the past, say, 3-4 years that holds a candle to any of this?

Who is disputing the level of wagging tongues? Straw man diversion.

You have been told by someone in the know how wrong most of your little assumptions are. 

So...we'll just go ahead and put you down as a no, then.  A "no" on another example from the past few years that holds a candle to any of this.

That's not a diss.  Its the only logical answer.

I point out a straw man diversion tactic, and you not only ignore that, you attempt to answer it for me.  

Nobody is denying the current shitstorm of gossip and the innudation of everybody's special little interpretations of current events. That is a point nobody is arguing.

I'm not big on conclusion jumping, I prefer to wait on an actual reality. Weird huh.  

[D-GenerationX]

But you're essentially saying, above: My opinion trumps yours.

Incorrect.

I'm saying anecdotal evidence from a guy that bought a ticket to see a show is a poor argument as a representative sample of the group at large.

Who the fuck DOESN'T have fun at a show?  What do you figure the percentage of people that have a good time at concerts is?  98%?  99%?  And I'm only allowing those 1 or 2 percentage points for the people that drank too much in the parking lot and passed out and never made it in.

What relevance does that have on the big picture?

In short, I am not disputing people in the crowd had fun *that night* and sang along with other fans *that night*.

But as someone just pointed out, once you left the building, did that mean you still felt super awesome about where things were?  Do they go hand in hand?

[pilferk]

The UCAP shows, you mean?  Perhaps.  Though I think even they were trumped by the first residency, probably.

But come 2014, it was sort of a rerun.  They are going to Vegas!! (again)  To play a residency (again!!)  And its pretty much the same show (you liked it before, why not now??)

I'm just coming from the angle that this may all well be a pipe dream.  But its something new.  Its exciting.

Are we really going to compare it to possibly finding our there will be a third residency in 2016, with 2 guys named Harry on guitar?

Yes, UCAP...though I think the early portion in the more intimate venues generated more buzz...because it wasn't something they'd really done a lot of.  The Euro portion sold tickets like mad, but I don't think it got the same buzz or excitement (certainly not the same KIND of press) the early shows got.  It was wildly successful, and I'm sure those in attendance loved the shows. But I think having the opportunity to be 10 feet from the band might have whipped up a bit more frenzy.

Just MHO, and I'm biased, maybe, cause I was at one of those shows.

I was uber excited for the 2014 residency because, until about a month prior, I was going to be on a plane, seeing GnR, pretty much on my birthday.  I know there was a LOT of buzz on the various forums, and there was some press.  Again, maybe not the level of press we've seen over the past week, but...again...I suspect that level of press is at least as much mercenary (for the press outlets) as it is actual buzz.

[EmilyGNR]

I struggle to recall the last time people were truly excited about this band.  The 2009-10 shows, maybe?  I don't know, I'm guessing.

I think that's fair.  I saw them in Chicago in 2011 & '12, and had a blast.  But the last time there was something new and truly exciting in the air?  Yeah, 2010 shows I think.

I was always under the impression that Chinese Democracy was going to be an opening of the floodgates of sorts as far as the band releasing tons more new music, etc.  Once I saw that wasn't happening, the way it had always been eluded to up until the release itself, it really took the wind out of my sails as a fan quite a bit.  

And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if the plan isn't to put this stuff out ASAP...Well, why the hell not a reunion?

Take what you get (and love it, you ungrateful fuck):  A guide to being a Guns n Roses fan.

Catchy title, really.

Lol, you're not wrong. 

But seriously, you can go to a GNR show, have a great time...And still be disappointed that the band is essentially a stagnant touring act with no new music in the cards.  That's what they've been since 2011...Until they're not.

It may be semantics, but if you know anything about touring- you can't be "stagnant" and tour as much as GNR has. Look up the definition.

Touring is a huge undertaking, not a stagnant activity at all.

I have a feeling you are just complaining about new material though.

[D-GenerationX]

Nobody is denying the current shitstorm of gossip and the innudation of everybody's special little interpretations of current events. That is a point nobody is arguing.

I'm not big on conclusion jumping, I prefer to wait on an actual reality. Weird huh.  

Why is it a bad thing, though?

The past few days have seen all sorts of excitement and discussion of some different topics.

If they don't pan out, they don't pan out.

[jarmo]

So you're saying the thousands of fans attending the shows don't mean shit? Since you're focusing on people like yourself who rather stayed at home.

Define people and excited.  
I saw plenty of people be excited about GN'R every time the intro rolled....  

Debunked as a relevant answer long ago, and that dismissal still applies.

Get some new material, ace.

You debunked facts?

I see.

The whole thing is so silly.

Premise : There doesn't seem to be much widespread excitement for anything the past few years.  This would at least be something new.

Rebuttal : I was standing on the side of the stage with a lanyard around my neck and saw a guy in the 3rd row rocking out.  So, I'm pretty sure its all good in the hood, smartguy.

Solid answer, right there.

Please.

Who are you referring to here?  

Edited to add: What part does the lanyard or the positioning of the person have to do with anything? Why isn't the premise listed in a similar way? For example: "As a wrestling watching Bon Jovi fan, sitting in front of my computer, there doesn't seem....."


Maybe the problem is that you base your so called opinion on what you see on the Internet.
For some of us, it's a bit more than that....  


You also seem to be under the impression that my opinion is based on people that are only excited at a show. Please.
Remember that time last year when you tried to make people less excited by pointing out the track record GN'R has (in your mind) of cancelling a lot of shows?

That was in 2014. Fans were making plans, being excited about the upcoming residency, and you.... You were just doing your usual Debbie Downer routine...

Yes, I brought it up again. You're welcome.


There's really no need for you to disrespect the past.



/jarmo

[sofine11]

I struggle to recall the last time people were truly excited about this band.  The 2009-10 shows, maybe?  I don't know, I'm guessing.

I think that's fair.  I saw them in Chicago in 2011 & '12, and had a blast.  But the last time there was something new and truly exciting in the air?  Yeah, 2010 shows I think.

I was always under the impression that Chinese Democracy was going to be an opening of the floodgates of sorts as far as the band releasing tons more new music, etc.  Once I saw that wasn't happening, the way it had always been eluded to up until the release itself, it really took the wind out of my sails as a fan quite a bit.  

And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if the plan isn't to put this stuff out ASAP...Well, why the hell not a reunion?

Take what you get (and love it, you ungrateful fuck):  A guide to being a Guns n Roses fan.

Catchy title, really.

Lol, you're not wrong. 

But seriously, you can go to a GNR show, have a great time...And still be disappointed that the band is essentially a stagnant touring act with no new music in the cards.  That's what they've been since 2011...Until they're not.

It may be semantics, but if you know anything about touring- you can't be "stagnant" and tour as much as GNR has. Look up the definition.

You are correct, that is semantics. 

[D-GenerationX]

There's really no need for you to disrespect the past.

Disrespect the past?

Seem to me like a lot of people are not only not disrespecting the past, they are celebrating the shit out of it and hope it might some day come again.

And go ahead and put me in their number.  Usually, I don't take part in these discussions.  This time, I'm all in.

[pilferk]

Incorrect.

I'm saying anecdotal evidence from a guy that bought a ticket to see a show is a poor argument as a representative sample of the group at large.

Who the fuck DOESN'T have fun at a show?  What do you figure the percentage of people that have a good time at concerts is?  98%?  99%?  And I'm only allowing those 1 or 2 percentage points for the people that drank too much in the parking lot and passed out and never made it in.

What relevance does that have on the big picture?

In short, I am not disputing people in the crowd had fun *that night* and sang along with other fans *that night*.

But as someone just pointed out, once you left the building, did that mean you still felt super awesome about where things were?  Do they go hand in hand?

As opposed to anecdotal evidence and observations of the guy sitting behind a keyboard on an internet forum. Which also might not be the strongest basis for a premise. No?  I mean....you don't have any more reliable evidence, survey, or polling that says otherwise. Right.

So...again...that's what you're doing.  It might not be your intent...but it's what you're doing.  "My" anecdotal observation trumps "your" anecdotal observation.  

Given the lack of solid ground of the premise, it doesn't take much to call that premise into question.  Anecdotal observations from a show would be just as solid...which is to say, not very.

[TheBaconman]

But you're essentially saying, above: My opinion trumps yours.

Incorrect.

I'm saying anecdotal evidence from a guy that bought a ticket to see a show is a poor argument as a representative sample of the group at large.

Who the fuck DOESN'T have fun at a show?  What do you figure the percentage of people that have a good time at concerts is?  98%?  99%?  And I'm only allowing those 1 or 2 percentage points for the people that drank too much in the parking lot and passed out and never made it in.

What relevance does that have on the big picture?

In short, I am not disputing people in the crowd had fun *that night* and sang along with other fans *that night*.

But as someone just pointed out, once you left the building, did that mean you still felt super awesome about where things were?  Do they go hand in hand?

What you are saying though, is you have your finger on pulse of what is relevant these days.  What is "in".  Who likes what...  

Some how you...  Who is where ever it is you are.  Can figure out what the pulse of the world wide guns n rose fan base is...

Based off what?  The internet?  Geeks on the street talking?

While I will truely support that, the talk of guns has truely picked up.  And the support the band would get from old fans returning to the fold would be out of this world

I feel the world wide demand for Axl and "axls" gnr is still fairly high.  And the excitment of seeing them live is still there.   MB not in your neck of the woods.....   But most places I have been to see them it is

[D-GenerationX]

As opposed to anecdotal evidence and observations of the guy sitting behind a keyboard on an internet forum. Which also might not be the strongest basis for a premise. No?  I mean....you don't have any more reliable evidence, survey, or polling that says otherwise. Right.

So...again...that's what you're doing.  It might not be your intent...but it's what you're doing.  "My" anecdotal observation trumps "your" anecdotal observation.  

Given the lack of solid ground of the premise, it doesn't take much to call that premise into question.  Anecdotal observations from a show would be just as solid...which is to say, not very.

I sort of see your point.  But don't agree with you as strongly as I have on some of your others.

[D-GenerationX]

While I will truely support that, the talk of guns has truely picked up.  And the support the band would get from old fans returning to the fold would be out of this world

I feel the world wide demand for Axl and "axls" gnr is still fairly high.  And the excitment of seeing them live is still there.   MB not in your neck of the woods.....   But most places I have been to see them it is

It would be insane.  In the good way.  I can't be the only person being asked by their friends if this is all real.

But, to touch on your second point, if this all craps out (like it probably will) am I going back to them and telling them that while it didn't pan out, Axl will still release CD II (at some point) and be back with a new band (that I can't tell you who) and be back on the road?

Probably not.

[jarmo]

There's really no need for you to disrespect the past.

Disrespect the past?

Seem to me like a lot of people are not only not disrespecting the past, they are celebrating the shit out of it and hope it might some day come again.

And go ahead and put me in their number.  Usually, I don't take part in these discussions.  This time, I'm all in.

Yes, you're disrespecting the past. Imagine that.

It was a joke by the way.
Something some people like to throw around if you actually supported the band after the old band disbanded....

Edited to add: Before somebody sensitive starts typing a response. I didn't make claims that nobody is excited about the reunion rumors or made some kind of comparisons on the level of excitement. I merely disagreed with a certain Internet poster's assumption that pretty much nobody's been excited about anything GN'R related in years just because he hasn't. Just more of the same generalizations in order to make yourself feel more important.



/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

While I will truely support that, the talk of guns has truely picked up.  And the support the band would get from old fans returning to the fold would be out of this world

I feel the world wide demand for Axl and "axls" gnr is still fairly high.  And the excitment of seeing them live is still there.   MB not in your neck of the woods.....   But most places I have been to see them it is

It would be insane.  In the good way.  I can't be the only person being asked by their friends if this is all real.

But, to touch on your second point, if this all craps out (like it probably will) am I going back to them and telling them that while it didn't pan out, Axl will still release CD II (at some point) and be back with a new band (that I can't tell you who) and be back on the road?

Probably not.

I had my unlce, who lives on the other side of the country send me a email last week.   To quote him

"Bacon, your buddy Buckethead is out of guns and Slash is back in!"

hahaha

[Ginger King]

This all spiraled because one poster got so upset at the term liar being used. As others pointed out it's just that none of these guys are on the same page. Only time will tell who has a clue and who doesn't.

I also just really hope that we don't get new guy 1 and new guy 2 on guitar next year.

To be honest...I object to it, too.  Emily beat me to pointing out the objection, though.

It's a term we often use here when there are alternate scenarios in play (like being wrong or having circumstances change or, like in this case, having two alternate points of view).

I see you have since agreed that the use of that term probably wasn't apt...so we can move on from there.    

Fine...but I just think he knows and is not choosing to say.  And I think he's well within his right not to tell us.

I tend to believe that over he actually doesn't know.  If he truly has no idea what's going on...then that's a really shitty way to treat someone who's been one of the longest serving tenured members of the band.

First sentence here is great, he is under no obligation-real or imagined, and would be ill-advised to blurt out everything he knows. Only Idiots spew everything they know.

Second sentence here you are ASSUMING that he has somehow been mistreated and you are jumping to the usual conclusions and drama queen antics. 

I believe you're assuming that I'm assuming he's been mistreated.  Stop projecting your toxic negativity.  

All I'm saying is if he truly doesn't know, it's shitty.  He should know, and, IMO, he does, so I don't believe he's being mistreated at all.  I believe he's being evasive about the question, and I think he's right to do so.  Because it's not his place...because he's not in the band anymore.  But you can wait for the official announcement on that one.  

Here's what you wrote-

"I tend to believe that over he actually doesn't know.  If he truly has no idea what's going on...then that's a really shitty way to treat someone who's been one of the longest serving tenured members of the band."

Your words not mine, so continue to dance around and pretend you didn't say that. You were clearly insinuating he has somehow been "mistreated".  

You guys are like a bunch of gossipy old housewives at a back fence.
[/quote]

Holy shit, really?  Re-read my first five words you quoted.  "I tend to believe that"  The "that" in that statement is that he actually knows but is choosing not to talk about it.  That means, for avoidance of doubt, I actually feel he is not being mistreated.  

IF I am wrong (and from what I glean from this board posters are never wrong...except D-X) then I think it's a shitty way for Tommy to go out.

I hope that clears it up for you.  

[D-GenerationX]

I had my unlce, who lives on the other side of the country send me a email last week.   To quote him

"Bacon, your buddy Buckethead is out of guns and Slash is back in!"

hahaha

Hahahaha