What's your viewpoint on a reunion?

[jarmo]

I think the point is that both are rumored for 2016.  Sure, Axl could tour with the original lineup next year, then retreat back to the studio to master the album for 2017 or 2018.  But I certainly don't see the two happening in close proximity to each other, which is bad news for those favoring one over the other.

...Which is also why a news update clarifying the future of Guns N' Roses would come in awfully handy at this point.

Maybe that's your point. The post I replied to clearly stated that "I think any sort of reunion tour or reunion type project condemns any next CD-era album to the Magical Mystery Vault for life.". Doesn't mention 2016....


Anyway, regarding what you're saying. Yeah. The things these kind of reunions often promote are compilation albums.
But then the question is, IF that happened, does Greatest Hits need more promotion?



/jarmo

[sofine11]

I think the point is that both are rumored for 2016.  Sure, Axl could tour with the original lineup next year, then retreat back to the studio to master the album for 2017 or 2018.  But I certainly don't see the two happening in close proximity to each other, which is bad news for those favoring one over the other.

...Which is also why a news update clarifying the future of Guns N' Roses would come in awfully handy at this point.

Maybe that's your point. The post I replied to clearly stated that "I think any sort of reunion tour or reunion type project condemns any next CD-era album to the Magical Mystery Vault for life.". Doesn't mention 2016....


Anyway, regarding what you're saying. Yeah. The things these kind of reunions often promote are compilation albums.
But then the question is, IF that happened, does Greatest Hits need more promotion?



/jarmo

To me it's 50/50, which is sacrilege to some.  Half of me would LOVE to see Axl & Slash share the stage again for a tour.  The other half of me would feel REALLY gypped if I never get to hear the second half of Chinese Democracy (The General, Atlas Shrugged etc.). 

I just want to know where we stand, and what the appropriate expectations are.  At this point, I don't know what the hell is up with my favorite band.

This apathetic silent treatment we're getting from management is getting pretty annoying, and equally confounding given all the media speculation about the future of GNR, that will only continue until Axl or management sets the record straight.  Unless, for whatever reason, it serves their purposes *not* to.

[jarmo]

At this point, I don't know what the hell is up with my favorite band.

Is it important to know?
I mean, besides the fact that they're obviously on a break.

I know, I know. "But I want to know what's next!" or "But are they ever coming back?".
Is it possible there's no real answer to the first one yet, and the second one must be true because nobody said the opposite?

This apathetic silent treatment we're getting from management is getting pretty annoying, and equally confounding given all the media speculation about the future of GNR, that will only continue until Axl or management sets the record straight.  Unless, for whatever reason, it serves their purposes *not* to.

Management this, management that.

Bands take breaks. They don't necessarily update everybody about what they're doing during those breaks.
Think back a decade or so.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I think any sort of reunion tour or reunion type project condemns any next CD-era album to the Magical Mystery Vault for life.

Not really.

IF your hypothetical reunion is only for a show, or tour. Then everybody goes back to their own projects.
Hell, KISS did the reunion and then went back to those other guys because they just couldn't go on with the old band.

Maybe.  But its a hard sell.

Look how many in our number say they roll with one replacement line-up after another because its, quite literally, better than nothing.  That if the alternative to accepting a revolving door line-up is to have no more Axl Rose, ever...then yeah, give me the revolving door.

But what happens when "better than nothing" is not the alternative?  So many have made their peace with the break-up and are willing to accept its over and done.

Now you are going to give them some sort of reunion effort, showing it can be done, and then go back to Axl and a bunch of dudes?

Who's all that into that?

[jarmo]

So we agree on the fact that people who "need" things will never be happy!
Those people who want that reunion to happen aren't gonna be happy if it ever happens and it's just show(s).



/jarmo

[sofine11]

I think any sort of reunion tour or reunion type project condemns any next CD-era album to the Magical Mystery Vault for life.

Not really.

IF your hypothetical reunion is only for a show, or tour. Then everybody goes back to their own projects.
Hell, KISS did the reunion and then went back to those other guys because they just couldn't go on with the old band.

Maybe.  But its a hard sell.

Look how many in our number say they roll with one replacement line-up after another because its, quite literally, better than nothing.  That if the alternative to accepting a revolving door line-up is to have no more Axl Rose, ever...then yeah, give me the revolving door.

But what happens when "better than nothing" is not the alternative?  So many have made their peace with the break-up and are willing to accept its over and done.

Now you are going to give them some sort of reunion effort, showing it can be done, and then go back to Axl and a bunch of dudes?

Who's all that into that?

Yeah, I'm gonna go on record and say that it would be impossible for Axl to get any support going back to him being the solo original member in Guns N' Roses *after* a reunion tour.  

He could drop the next "Chinese album" first in 2016, and then do the reunion tour in 2017 just in time for Appetite's 30th anniversary...But not vice versa.  There's just no going back after an Axl/Slash reunion tour, and he has to know that.

[jarmo]

Depends how you do it.

If you are open about it being only a tour, and that's it.

What are people gonna do? Cry about it?



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Depends how you do it.

If you are open about it being only a tour, and that's it.

What are people gonna do? Cry about it?

Not buy any more tickets.

[faldor]

I think the point is that both are rumored for 2016.  Sure, Axl could tour with the original lineup next year, then retreat back to the studio to master the album for 2017 or 2018.  But I certainly don't see the two happening in close proximity to each other, which is bad news for those favoring one over the other.

...Which is also why a news update clarifying the future of Guns N' Roses would come in awfully handy at this point.

Maybe that's your point. The post I replied to clearly stated that "I think any sort of reunion tour or reunion type project condemns any next CD-era album to the Magical Mystery Vault for life.". Doesn't mention 2016....


Anyway, regarding what you're saying. Yeah. The things these kind of reunions often promote are compilation albums.
But then the question is, IF that happened, does Greatest Hits need more promotion?



/jarmo

To me it's 50/50, which is sacrilege to some.  Half of me would LOVE to see Axl & Slash share the stage again for a tour.  The other half of me would feel REALLY gypped if I never get to hear the second half of Chinese Democracy (The General, Atlas Shrugged etc.). 

I just want to know where we stand, and what the appropriate expectations are.  At this point, I don't know what the hell is up with my favorite band.

This apathetic silent treatment we're getting from management is getting pretty annoying, and equally confounding given all the media speculation about the future of GNR, that will only continue until Axl or management sets the record straight.  Unless, for whatever reason, it serves their purposes *not* to.

I'm not sure they need to say anything. Maybe there's nothing to say. They've been secretive for as long as we can all remember, so why would that change now. By not saying anything, all avenues are possible. Maybe they're just leaving their options open. If a new album doesn't come out, and they choose to go the reunion route, I'm sure most everyone would rejoice. If the plan is still to focus on the next album, maybe they're still working at that. If it comes out, great! There may be as much uncertainty for them as there is for us. So unless there's a definite plan in place that is definitely going to be put into motion, I'm not sure it benefits them to shoot make any announcements about things that may or may not happen.

Again, if a new album is the plan, why come out and shoot down the reunion rumors? Fans would rage over that. If you leave it be and release an album, there's still a chance at a reunion somewhere down the line. The silence over Slash and Axl being on better terms hasn't been shot down. That's a good thing, for all involved.

Also, why is Slash off the hook here? Everyone is screaming that Guns has to release some sort of statement. Slash is the one who started this avalanche. Why is he not expected to say that a reunion definitely isn't happening? Now obviously Slash is more open with his fans and has laid out his intentions for next year, and they don't seem to involve Axl. There have been hints at 2016 being an active year for GNR as well. Who knows what will happen, but I wouldn't bet on a reunion anytime soon.

[jarmo]

Not buy any more tickets.

Really? What's the difference to the situation since 1996 to that?

"I saw them on the ultramega reunion tour at the Gigandome back a few years ago so I won't go see them on this tour because it's a different band"?

People could've said the same thing every tour since 1993....



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, I'm gonna go on record and say that it would be impossible for Axl to get any support going back to him being the solo original member in Guns N' Roses *after* a reunion tour.  

He could drop the next "Chinese album" first in 2016, and then do the reunion tour in 2017 just in time for Appetite's 30th anniversary...But not vice versa.  There's just no going back after an Axl/Slash reunion tour, and he has to know that.

Here's your obvious problem.  People roll with the ever changing line-up under the premise Axl and Slash just can't get it together.  OK, fine.

Well...that sentiment is gone once they show they actually CAN get it together.  So that next tour of Axl and whoever the hell knows else becomes a case of Axl deliberately choosing to walk away a second time.  

You also have to start thinking about the going out on a high note aspect of all this.  Suppose you bought tickets to these past couple tours because it was your only chance to see Axl Rose.  Not under optimum conditions, clearly, but you did it.

Now you are going to see him with the guys you grew up with, the guys you loved, and the guys that made you a fan.  That's how you are going out.  

You are closing the book.

[jarmo]

You're forgetting that not everybody has a love relationship with the people in the band.
A lot of people love the music. But couldn't name anybody in the band besides Axl and Slash.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Really? What's the difference to the situation since 1996 to that?

"I saw them on the ultramega reunion tour at the Gigandome back a few years ago so I won't go see them on this tour because it's a different band"?

People could've said the same thing every tour since 1993....

Is that right?  Because he's gotten back up onstage with Slash and Duff since 1993?  Where did this happen?

The game changes once you do that.  Let's not confuse love of the new line-up to *tolerating* the new line-up.

Once you get the alternative you'd prefer, are you going back?

[jarmo]

No, I meant people could use the same excuse.

"I saw the old band, I don't wanna see this band".
That excuse could've been used for every tour since 1996....

Look at Kiss, they're touring. And it's not the old band....



/jarmo

[faldor]

Depends how you do it.

If you are open about it being only a tour, and that's it.

What are people gonna do? Cry about it?

Not buy any more tickets.

I think they could still have a following if the scenario described presented itself. Sure, they might lose some support along the way. But there's been enough support for GNR sans Slash to be a viable outfit. Sure they're not breaking any records, but they also don't seem to be going bankrupt either. Hardcore Axl fans will still support him. Casual fans who go to see GNR live these days are doing it to see Axl or the music they like performed. I'm assuming a vast majority know Slash isn't in the band anymore. I'm not sure a reunion would detract from the crowd as much as you think. People will come out of the woodwork to see a reunion that wouldn't pay a nickel to see modern day Guns. But that's always been the case. I don't see this massive change.

[D-GenerationX]

No, I meant people could use the same excuse.

"I saw the old band, I don't wanna see this band".
That excuse could've been used for every tour since 1996....

Look at Kiss, they're touring. And it's not the old band....

But you are discounting the literal THOUSANDS of fans that say "call me when he's back with Slash and I'll go."

They don't care what he's doing now.  So if he does a reunion tour, it draws back in a shitload of people.  The same people that will continue to give no fucks when he leaves them again and assembles another group of randos.

I take it a step further.  I think you would also have people that have put up with this misadventure all these years that are going to look at a reunion tour as their reward for sticking around...and just be done.

It would be hard to fire up GNR verson 4.0 after giving them a Classic GNR tour.  Or as close to classic as you can get.

[sofine11]

No, I meant people could use the same excuse.

"I saw the old band, I don't wanna see this band".
That excuse could've been used for every tour since 1996....

Look at Kiss, they're touring. And it's not the old band....



/jarmo

Kiss (Paul & Gene) are operating under the same premise as if Axl & Slash had ALWAYS stayed together operating as Guns N' Roses, as the two most iconic members.  Axl being the ONLY original member makes his situation unique.  After he pairs himself back with Slash, and people see that it can work, even if only on a touring capacity, then there's just no going back to Guns N' Roses being the Axl Rose show with a bunch of unknowns in tow.

And I'm someone who would love nothing more than to hit play on the next GNR album from the Chinese era.  But you just can't deny that he'd be alone as far as financial support for going backwards after a reunion.

Edited to add: He could certainly perform as 'Axl Rose' after a reunion. But if he continued with a bunch of relatively unknowns as GNR after the fact, he'd likely be dealing with the breakup backlash all over again like in 1996-97.  Where's Slash?!?! etc. etc. etc.  Could he live with that?  Could promoters live with that?

[jarmo]

But you are discounting the literal THOUSANDS of fans that say "call me when he's back with Slash and I'll go."

They don't care what he's doing now.  So if he does a reunion tour, it draws back in a shitload of people.  The same people that will continue to give no fucks when he leaves them again and assembles another group of randos.

I take it a step further.  I think you would also have people that have put up with this misadventure all these years that are going to look at a reunion tour as their reward for sticking around...and just be done.

It would be hard to fire up GNR verson 4.0 after giving them a Classic GNR tour.  Or as close to classic as you can get.

This is true for any reunion! It's not anything GN'R specific!
The magic of the word reunion. That's it.

Yes, there's people who'd only go if that word was used. No denying it.

Are you denying the fact that there's also thousands of people who don't give a fuck who plays the songs as long as Axl sings them? They're called casual rock fans. They're the ones who buy those Greatest Hits albums at places like Walmart.... I think. I didn't go to Walmart and ask them all...

Kiss (Paul & Gene) are operating under the same premise as if Axl & Slash had ALWAYS stayed together operating as Guns N' Roses, as the two most iconic members.  Axl being the ONLY original member makes his situation unique.  After he pairs himself back with Slash, and people see that it can work, even if only on a touring capacity, then there's just no going back to Guns N' Roses being the Axl Rose show with a bunch of unknowns in tow.

And I'm someone who would love nothing more than to hit play on the next GNR album from the Chinese era.  But you just can't deny that he'd be alone as far as financial support for going backwards after a reunion.

Yes, I know. The point I made was about the reunion.... They went from "not the real Kiss" to the "real Kiss" and back again....





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I think they could still have a following if the scenario described presented itself. Sure, they might lose some support along the way. But there's been enough support for GNR sans Slash to be a viable outfit. Sure they're not breaking any records, but they also don't seem to be going bankrupt either. Hardcore Axl fans will still support him. Casual fans who go to see GNR live these days are doing it to see Axl or the music they like performed. I'm assuming a vast majority know Slash isn't in the band anymore. I'm not sure a reunion would detract from the crowd as much as you think. People will come out of the woodwork to see a reunion that wouldn't pay a nickel to see modern day Guns. But that's always been the case. I don't see this massive change.

I think you would largely have what you have now.  If most of us have stuck with him though all this bullshit, its pretty obvious we'll accept anything he throws our way.

But all of us?  Do you discount there are people among us staying in this game just on the long, long, longshot hopes there is a reunion? 

I could show you posts on every board but this one that express that very sentiment.

[D-GenerationX]

Are you denying the fact that there's also thousands of people who don't give a fuck who plays the songs as long as Axl sings them? They're called casual rock fans.

...and it doesn't take as long to count heads, either.