Axl and Slash friends again?

[EmilyGNR]

So you are stating the classic lineup was not seen as somewhat cartoony and that started in 2001?

"My favourite cartoon characters are Metallica and SLASH?(Axl, 1989)

The rest of your little dissertation is amusing, it is great you presume to speak for the general public 

Exactly what I assumed your response would be. No surprise... really shame on me for even attempting to imagine you could exit the fantasy world you live in.

The only way to prove this this would be to have a national (US) or international online media outlet run a quick survey related to the band and somehow run it so that the results can't be skewed by the several thousand members of this and similar forums. Ask them questions ranging from Opinions of songs 1987-2008, opinions of members 1987-2014, opinions of concert footage or actual concerts they've attended and do it on a 5 or 10 point favorability rating with 0 meaning they have no knowledge of the song or the member. How anyone can argue that the 'core' 1987-1993 lineup isn't going to take that over the 2001-2014 version(s) in the general 'court of public opinion' by an epic landslide is unfathomable. You can't possibly believe any response you type to the contrary...

What I'm saying in no way is meant to discredit what the new lineups have done creatively via album and live performance over the last 14 years, but the early 'look' and execution of their reemergence into the public consciousness did absolutely nothing to help them... and once they did get some momentum, they would trip up by having a revolving door of members taking away any ability for a casual fan to 'connect' with anyone outside of Axl in a way that would meaningfully push Slash or Duff into the background and allow them to grow as the new face of Guns N' Roses.

The one living in a fantasy world seems to be you, nice attempt at projecting though.

Run along and do your proposed little survey.

It is merely your narrative that they "tripped up" I think it is nothing short of miraculous that Axl rebuilt the band after having two members quit, I'm very thankful he chose to continue.

[JAEBALL]

GnR absolutely existed after Slash left ... I have my copy of Chinese Democracy as proof.

But can somebody please post a link of the GNR recordings prior to Slash joining the band ? I'd like to check that out.

[C0ma]

Nobody said Slash didn't have part in making GN'r what it became.
People are just pointing out the untruth that there was no GN'R without him.

There's no reason to get upset. He joined an existing band.
Nobody said he can't play guitar, nobody said he wasn't important...

/jarmo

Totally understand there certainly was a band before him and there most definitely is a band after him, and they all carry the same name "Guns N' Roses". The point I am trying to make to the latest resident brick wall here at HTGTH is that while they have always 'existed' in many forms without him (and Duff), they have never been at the same level of popularity or respect frankly with the general non hardcore fan. Robin Fink, DJ Ashba, Paul Huge (Tobias), Chris Pitman, Frank, Brian Mantia, etc... aren't household names... on the other hand, my grandmother knows Slash by sight and she's in her 80's.

Again, none of this takes away from the artistic and musical value these members have brought, but the finer point some of these people are making/ trying to make is not so much that the band didn't exist before or after Slash (and Duff, I can't stress that enough), but they have never existied at the same level.

[jarmo]

How do you measure popularity?

It used to be easy. Record sales, radio and MTV play...

It's always difficult to argue about hypothetical scenarios. Like, do you think GN'R would've stayed a stadium act in the USA if the UYI line up stayed together? Some people do, but I don't know if they're aware of the fact that GN'R weren't playing stadiums in in the USA on their own in 1992 either. "TSI?" sold less in a week than Chinese Democracy. And in 1993, GN'R were still huge.

Yes, GN'R was one of the biggest bands on the planet in the late 80s/early 90s, nobody's debating that. Yes, they put out amazing music that was popular.

But times have changed and comparing popularity is way more difficult nowadays...

And no, before somebody chimes in, I didn't say GN'R today is as popular as in say 1992.


/jarmo

[estebanf]

GnR absolutely existed after Slash left ... I have my copy of Chinese Democracy as proof.

But can somebody please post a link of the GNR recordings prior to Slash joining the band ? I'd like to check that out.

An album is not a requirement to be in a band. In fact, it's safe to say the majority of the bands existing in the world right now don't have an official release.

Is this really the best you can say?

It amazes me the incredible capacity of certain people to deny the undeniable. GNR was born without Slash. You can cry and whine and protest, but that wont change anything.

[Princess Leia]

How do you measure popularity?

It used to be easy. Record sales, radio and MTV play...

It's always difficult to argue about hypothetical scenarios. Like, do you think GN'R would've stayed a stadium act in the USA if the UYI line up stayed together? Some people do, but I don't know if they're aware of the fact that GN'R weren't playing stadiums in in the USA on their own in 1992 either. "TSI?" sold less in a week than Chinese Democracy. And in 1993, GN'R were still huge.

Yes, GN'R was one of the biggest bands on the planet in the late 80s/early 90s, nobody's debating that. Yes, they put out amazing music that was popular.

But times have changed and comparing popularity is way more difficult nowadays...

And no, before somebody chimes in, I didn't say GN'R today is as popular as in say 1992.


/jarmo

How do we measure popularity? We have a great example right here. Slash gave an interview to some Swedish paper. He said a few words. Those words could mean little or a huge lot, too early to tell. Yet there was an earthquake, not only around forums but all over the media.

The other side of the coin, Richard said  that there are great things coming up next year, few people care despite the fact that he might be telling the truth

[D-GenerationX]

It's always difficult to argue about hypothetical scenarios. Like, do you think GN'R would've stayed a stadium act in the USA if the UYI line up stayed together? Some people do, but I don't know if they're aware of the fact that GN'R weren't playing stadiums in in the USA on their own in 1992 either. "TSI?" sold less in a week than Chinese Democracy. And in 1993, GN'R were still huge.

They were never a true stadium act in the U.S.  Very few acts are.

What they were, was a very reliable arena act.  Consistent sellouts, multiple nights in some cities.  Which they would have remained if they stayed together.

The only reason to go down the "well, we really can't say for sure..." road, is when you are trying to not shine a light on the fact no post Slash version of the band has been that domestically.

Which fools no one.

[D-GenerationX]

How do we measure popularity? We have a great example right here. Slash gave an interview to some Swedish paper. He said a few words. Those words could mean little or a huge lot, too early to tell. Yet there was an earthquake, not only around forums but all over the media.

The other side of the coin, Richard said  that there are great things coming up next year, few people care despite the fact that he might be telling the truth

Very fair points here.

Who has even heard the Richard news outside GNR forums?

[JAEBALL]

GnR absolutely existed after Slash left ... I have my copy of Chinese Democracy as proof.

But can somebody please post a link of the GNR recordings prior to Slash joining the band ? I'd like to check that out.

An album is not a requirement to be in a band. In fact, it's safe to say the majority of the bands existing in the world right now don't have an official release.

Is this really the best you can say?

It amazes me the incredible capacity of certain people to deny the undeniable. GNR was born without Slash. You can cry and whine and protest, but that wont change anything.

Oh so the performances of Axl Izzy and some other guys using the name guns n roses in some garage in front of nobody qualifies them ?

If it does , then you are right guns n roses was born before Slash, Duff and Steven joined. Fantastic.

[C0ma]

How do you measure popularity?

It used to be easy. Record sales, radio and MTV play...

It's always difficult to argue about hypothetical scenarios. Like, do you think GN'R would've stayed a stadium act in the USA if the UYI line up stayed together? Some people do, but I don't know if they're aware of the fact that GN'R weren't playing stadiums in in the USA on their own in 1992 either. "TSI?" sold less in a week than Chinese Democracy. And in 1993, GN'R were still huge.

Yes, GN'R was one of the biggest bands on the planet in the late 80s/early 90s, nobody's debating that. Yes, they put out amazing music that was popular.

But times have changed and comparing popularity is way more difficult nowadays...

And no, before somebody chimes in, I didn't say GN'R today is as popular as in say 1992.


/jarmo

I would base it on name recognition first and foremost, you can pretty easily gauge who is more popular if you ask simply ask who is -------? If you polled 100 people Family Feud Style and asked the name of the lead guitar player for Guns N' Roses who do you think Steve Harvey would see on the board when asked to see the number one answer? If you say anything but Slash you are lying to yourself. The same would be said for songs ask 100 people and track the top 10 answers... I'd be surprised if anything that isn't on Greatest Hits (13,000,000 copies world wide btw) shows up on the list (maybe Chinese Democracy shows up because of the lore/mythology behind the name).

The other thing is pick any show you have been to between Vegas 2000/2001 - and Vegas 2014 and tell me that each and every person didn't run into at least a few people outside a beer line, bathroom, or even the seats around you who said 'wait where's slash?'... 'who's that guy?' That in and of itself show's you the 'insignificance of the newer members of the band to casual fans.

Again, I wouldn't use any of this to try to force a reunion that wouldn't happen organically. I think that the 2006-2014 flavors of the new band were amazing live, and would be perfectly happy to see CD2 come out and some reasonable facsimile of that lineup tour against it... I would love for something like Hammerstein to happen again to get those quick 4 shows with the huge board meetups that happened across the street at Mustang Harry's (relived that a little bit when I went though my profile history)... but at the same time I don't think you can argue aginst the 'pop culture' significance of a reunion and it's popularity over Axl just staying the course... that is all.

[estebanf]

GnR absolutely existed after Slash left ... I have my copy of Chinese Democracy as proof.

But can somebody please post a link of the GNR recordings prior to Slash joining the band ? I'd like to check that out.

An album is not a requirement to be in a band. In fact, it's safe to say the majority of the bands existing in the world right now don't have an official release.

Is this really the best you can say?

It amazes me the incredible capacity of certain people to deny the undeniable. GNR was born without Slash. You can cry and whine and protest, but that wont change anything.

Oh so the performances of Axl Izzy and some other guys using the name guns n roses in some garage in front of nobody qualifies them ?

If it does , then you are right guns n roses was born before Slash, Duff and Steven joined. Fantastic.

I don't know if it's fantastic. All i know is it's the only truth.

[D-GenerationX]

I would base it on name recognition first and foremost, you can pretty easily gauge who is more popular if you ask simply ask who is -------? If you polled 100 people Family Feud Style and asked the name of the lead guitar player for Guns N' Roses who do you think Steve Harvey would see on the board when asked to see the number one answer? If you say anything but Slash you are lying to yourself. The same would be said for songs ask 100 people and track the top 10 answers... I'd be surprised if anything that isn't on Greatest Hits (13,000,000 copies world wide btw) shows up on the list (maybe Chinese Democracy shows up because of the lore/mythology behind the name).

The other thing is pick any show you have been to between Vegas 2000/2001 - and Vegas 2014 and tell me that each and every person didn't run into at least a few people outside a beer line, bathroom, or even the seats around you who said 'wait where's slash?'... 'who's that guy?' That in and of itself show's you the 'insignificance of the newer members of the band to casual fans.

Tremedous post.

And would any of this conversation be necessary if the new band kept things at the same level?  Would we need to do a lot of tap dancing and try and keep a lot of plates spinning if they did?

I don't think so.

People would know the current band.  Most have no clue.  People would know the newer material.  Most have no clue.

None of this is to say that what Axl has done over the past 15 years didn't produce some good music.  Some of its actually great.

But in terms of a business and quality of operation, its not even apples and oranges.  its apples and pine cones.

[C0ma]

Tremedous post.

If I hadn't done it myself over the last 14 years or so, that glowing review from you probably planted me on Jarmo's shit list... 

Kidding of course...

[D-GenerationX]

Tremedous post.

If I hadn't done it myself over the last 14 years or so, that glowing review from you probably planted me on Jarmo's shit list... 

Kidding of course...

Jarmo is my boy.  All of this tension is just a little performance piece we do to amuse ourselves.

Like an Andy Kauffman homage.

[MeanBone]

well i think the reason people have a harder time knowing "the band" is because they're a bunch of them over a long period of time ( buckethead, robin, dj, bumblefoot, brain, paul tobias?) who were part of gnr, but only produced one record... with no videos, but a 15 year tour around it, because it started in 2000/2001.

So instead of other replacement members in other bands who actually became really famous and made a name for themselves like i.e randy rhoads being the first ozzy guitar player after iommi in sabbath, jake e lee after rhoads, zakk wylde, the list goes on and this is only with ozzy..

but the difference is these guys did records, as in multiple records and had videos, played tv shows and were allowed to just make more music with their identity.

Gn'r seems to make a whole lotta music that they keep to themselves. The downside is no one's gonna remember their names except for us because they're a faceless band pretty much and they dont really release and promote their music. i was watching an interview with duff on a seattle tv show and the interviewer called tommy stinson, tim and appologized soon after, but none the less, it was an honest mistake, because unless you're into the replacements it's hard to know his work in guns. just one record and a lotta concerts.


it sucks for the band, i think they (all recent lineups) should've had the chance to release more music. In a way the only reason i think they didn't release more music is because maybe axl thinks that it's not as good as the previous stuff or would never live up to the name guns n roses for one reason or another, and by not putting out this music he is having a better chance of getting back to the original line up and not have their legacy tainted with other material, except for chinese that eventually came out.


it's just a theory but what else could stop such a killer band from producing more music? i'm all for the new band making records, but at this point a reunion seems more likely. but i understand the new guys are hired guns, they get a paycheck and they do what they're told with respect to what they do, but they just follow orders when it comes to next steps. any of the members admits this in every interview.

[EmilyGNR]

GnR absolutely existed after Slash left ... I have my copy of Chinese Democracy as proof.

But can somebody please post a link of the GNR recordings prior to Slash joining the band ? I'd like to check that out.

An album is not a requirement to be in a band. In fact, it's safe to say the majority of the bands existing in the world right now don't have an official release.

Is this really the best you can say?

It amazes me the incredible capacity of certain people to deny the undeniable. GNR was born without Slash. You can cry and whine and protest, but that wont change anything.

Oh so the performances of Axl Izzy and some other guys using the name guns n roses in some garage in front of nobody qualifies them ?

If it does , then you are right guns n roses was born before Slash, Duff and Steven joined. Fantastic.

Slash, Duff and Steven joined a pre-existing band.

This is an inconvenient truth for some it seems, you are not entitled to your own facts  

[EmilyGNR]

well i think the reason people have a harder time knowing "the band" is because they're a bunch of them over a long period of time ( buckethead, robin, dj, bumblefoot, brain, paul tobias?) who were part of gnr, but only produced one record... with no videos, but a 15 year tour around it, because it started in 2000/2001.

So instead of other replacement members in other bands who actually became really famous and made a name for themselves like i.e randy rhoads being the first ozzy guitar player after iommi in sabbath, jake e lee after rhoads, zakk wylde, the list goes on and this is only with ozzy..

but the difference is these guys did records, as in multiple records and had videos, played tv shows and were allowed to just make more music with their identity.

Gn'r seems to make a whole lotta music that they keep to themselves. The downside is no one's gonna remember their names except for us because they're a faceless band pretty much and they dont really release and promote their music. i was watching an interview with duff on a seattle tv show and the interviewer called tommy stinson, tim and appologized soon after, but none the less, it was an honest mistake, because unless you're into the replacements it's hard to know his work in guns. just one record and a lotta concerts.


it sucks for the band, i think they (all recent lineups) should've had the chance to release more music. In a way the only reason i think they didn't release more music is because maybe axl thinks that it's not as good as the previous stuff or would never live up to the name guns n roses for one reason or another, and by not putting out this music he is having a better chance of getting back to the original line up and not have their legacy tainted with other material, except for chinese that eventually came out.


it's just a theory but what else could stop such a killer band from producing more music? i'm all for the new band making records, but at this point a reunion seems more likely.

You mentioned Videos multiple times, in the current climate how important do you really think videos are?

[D-GenerationX]

it sucks for the band, i think they (all recent lineups) should've had the chance to release more music. In a way the only reason i think they didn't release more music is because maybe axl thinks that it's not as good as the previous stuff or would never live up to the name guns n roses for one reason or another, and by not putting out this music he is having a better chance of getting back to the original line up and not have their legacy tainted with other material, except for chinese that eventually came out.

It totally sucks for the band.  They got absolutely jobbed in this whole process.

As much as it pisses some people off to hear it, the reality is that Axl had to pretty much approach this like it was a brand new band.  Introduce them to the world.  Get out there and talk them up.  Give people a reason to get invested.

This whole thing might not have ever worked anyway.  But it required a pretty serious promotional commitment that wasn't even remotely met, if even considered.

So that's how you find yourself 15 years later with a 2 current band members trying to talk up the future...to crickets.  And one other guy from the old band with a 30 second video clip from a foreign country picked up by every major outlet out there.

Because people were sold on Slash way back when.  They got invested, and still care.  The new band was never given that chance.

[MeanBone]

well a video is important to know their faces. I always remember seeing videos of the old line up when gn'r is on the road, because tv stations don't really use bootlegs to show a band, so they gotta go back to 1993 to see a video, and the guys in the video aren't in the band.

Plus official videos have more views than bootlegs on youtube, when mtv was in their hey dey people probably didn't watch as many times videos as they do today and it's also a source of revenue based on clicks, but most importantly it says a lot about the identity of the band and product they wanna put out. it's a not a coincidence that afd and everything related to the old line up still sells so much, mostly because the new band never did enough to produce a really different identity, one record, that's it.

I respect not putting out videos, but i don't think this was necessarily a stand agains't videos, maybe just not caring? because the video from better actually exists, and it def sucks so i understand the decision, but for a band this big that was known for their epic videos, not even produce one? seems strange, it doesn't add up and it doesn't help the band either.

[D-GenerationX]

You mentioned Videos multiple times, in the current climate how important do you really think videos are?

Not nearly what they once were, obviously.

But they still get noticed through social media.  Our band's social media outreach shows us pictures of ill advised tattoos on what I have to hope were very drunk fans.