Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

Kudos to the Trump administration for this. It's the right thing to do.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-to-consider-e-cigarette-policy-amid-outbreak-of-lung-disease.html

We've seen instances of this mysterious illness related to vaping....and until the CDC (or someone) can figure out it's cause, these products SHOULD be banned.

[tim_m]

I agree with Jarmo, i don't think they all get into politics for power. I honestly believe most when they get in genuinely want to help the people they serve. Then as they work their way up the money starts pouring in from pacs, lobbyists and special interest groups and it's hard to say no. I'm wondering if we pay them a bit more in Congress if they might be less inclined to take the money. It might sound crazy but maybe not. The salary for Congress and the Senate isn't something that will make your rich. These days it's barely middle class. They have to maintain two residences, one in bet expensive DC and another in their home state which could be very pricey, depending on where it is. I know this depends on the each member job they had prior plus wherever their spouses do for work, if they have one. Having said that he absolutely still need to overturn citizens united and get these damn pacs etc out.

if you genuinely want to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you go there for the control, the money, the power.

you're right about the salary. but there are connections and relationships and information that elected officials are privy to, that we are not. the higher the office, the higher the payoffs.

So are you saying that nobody who enters politics wants to help people?

Well certainly that's true, you can say that about other jobs too such as police, lawyers etc. That's exactly why we need all this damn money out of politics. Give them all say 250k a year, outlaw the lobbying and pacs. Overturn citizens united my severely limit how much anyone can donate to a candidate regardless of how wealthy the donor is. You do that i think we'll actually only get people who want to help and not simply get rich.

[sandman]

I agree with Jarmo, i don't think they all get into politics for power. I honestly believe most when they get in genuinely want to help the people they serve. Then as they work their way up the money starts pouring in from pacs, lobbyists and special interest groups and it's hard to say no. I'm wondering if we pay them a bit more in Congress if they might be less inclined to take the money. It might sound crazy but maybe not. The salary for Congress and the Senate isn't something that will make your rich. These days it's barely middle class. They have to maintain two residences, one in bet expensive DC and another in their home state which could be very pricey, depending on where it is. I know this depends on the each member job they had prior plus wherever their spouses do for work, if they have one. Having said that he absolutely still need to overturn citizens united and get these damn pacs etc out.

if you genuinely want to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you go there for the control, the money, the power.

you're right about the salary. but there are connections and relationships and information that elected officials are privy to, that we are not. the higher the office, the higher the payoffs.

So are you saying that nobody who enters politics wants to help people?

Well certainly that's true, you can say that about other jobs too such as police, lawyers etc. That's exactly why we need all this damn money out of politics. Give them all say 250k a year, outlaw the lobbying and pacs. Overturn citizens united my severely limit how much anyone can donate to a candidate regardless of how wealthy the donor is. You do that i think we'll actually only get people who want to help and not simply get rich.

there are always exceptions, but for the most part, most do not want to help people. if you truly wanted to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you mean "drain the swamp?"    yes, I agree with all of your points. for years, voters on both sides were focused on that. it will take a generation to change the rules and vote out the scum (which is probably 85-95% of all politicians), and it's a long shot that it even happens. but dem voters are not helping by voting for lifelong politicians like Biden, Bernie, and Warren. same old shit with any of them. and the rich and powerful will be so thirsty for a war at that point, you can pretty much guarantee we will invade someone. in fact, if Trump wins a 2nd term, I would be worried for his life. the war hawks on both sides are not happy right now.   

[tim_m]

I agree with Jarmo, i don't think they all get into politics for power. I honestly believe most when they get in genuinely want to help the people they serve. Then as they work their way up the money starts pouring in from pacs, lobbyists and special interest groups and it's hard to say no. I'm wondering if we pay them a bit more in Congress if they might be less inclined to take the money. It might sound crazy but maybe not. The salary for Congress and the Senate isn't something that will make your rich. These days it's barely middle class. They have to maintain two residences, one in bet expensive DC and another in their home state which could be very pricey, depending on where it is. I know this depends on the each member job they had prior plus wherever their spouses do for work, if they have one. Having said that he absolutely still need to overturn citizens united and get these damn pacs etc out.

if you genuinely want to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you go there for the control, the money, the power.

you're right about the salary. but there are connections and relationships and information that elected officials are privy to, that we are not. the higher the office, the higher the payoffs.

So are you saying that nobody who enters politics wants to help people?

Well certainly that's true, you can say that about other jobs too such as police, lawyers etc. That's exactly why we need all this damn money out of politics. Give them all say 250k a year, outlaw the lobbying and pacs. Overturn citizens united my severely limit how much anyone can donate to a candidate regardless of how wealthy the donor is. You do that i think we'll actually only get people who want to help and not simply get rich.

there are always exceptions, but for the most part, most do not want to help people. if you truly wanted to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you mean "drain the swamp?"    yes, I agree with all of your points. for years, voters on both sides were focused on that. it will take a generation to change the rules and vote out the scum (which is probably 85-95% of all politicians), and it's a long shot that it even happens. but dem voters are not helping by voting for lifelong politicians like Biden, Bernie, and Warren. same old shit with any of them. and the rich and powerful will be so thirsty for a war at that point, you can pretty much guarantee we will invade someone. in fact, if Trump wins a 2nd term, I would be worried for his life. the war hawks on both sides are not happy right now.   

We agree, the world must be ending lol. We'll have to agree to disagree on the first point though. It's gonna happen, we are gonna get a younger Congress and Senate. These people aren't immortal. It's just a question if they'll have an interest in actually doing good. Getting the dark money out, that's gonna be significantly harder.

[PermissionToLand]

I'm all for term limits. I've been saying they're needed for many years now. Unfortunately its not easily done, as it would require a constitutional amendment. I still think in general most people who enter politics at first really do have good intentions. Power and money corrupts. Yes that needs to go to. The SCOTUS made a terrible decision on that one. I don't know what the hell they were thinking. Do all that. Get all big money out, give them a bit of a raise so maybe they won't be tempted for being bribed and maybe we can actually get a congress and senate that works!

You're forgetting the new crop of politicians who grew up on talk radio and actually believe their own party's propaganda. They're not in it for the money, they're true believers.

if you genuinely want to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you go there for the control, the money, the power.

you're right about the salary. but there are connections and relationships and information that elected officials are privy to, that we are not. the higher the office, the higher the payoffs.

Right, because power certainly can't be used to help people! Working at a local food bank has a larger effect than national policy!

but dem voters are not helping by voting for lifelong politicians like Biden, Bernie, and Warren. same old shit with any of them.  

Yes, unlike those spring chickens in the GOP like Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Chuck Grassley and Jim Inhoffe...

Kudos to the Trump administration for this. It's the right thing to do.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-to-consider-e-cigarette-policy-amid-outbreak-of-lung-disease.html

We've seen instances of this mysterious illness related to vaping....and until the CDC (or someone) can figure out it's cause, these products SHOULD be banned.

Remember how they excoriated Obama for "picking winners and losers" over freaking subsidies? Imagine the shitstorm if he outright banned a product from the market. They would be drawing up impeachment papers or gearing up their militias to defend the "government tyranny" by the following day.

[tim_m]

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/461251-trump-on-energy-efficient-light-bulbs-i-always-look-orange

Sadly this is actually real.

[sandman]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/10/politics/donald-trump-hbcu-conference/index.html

“African-Americans built this nation through generations of blood, sweat and tears," Trump said. "You are entitled to a government that puts your needs, your interests and your families first."

— President Trump

[tim_m]

Yet his actions towards minorities say otherwise.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Unemployment for minorities is at a record low.  But Orange Man racist. 

[tim_m]

Ok, what specific policy has he implemented to lead to that? I'll wait.

[tim_m]

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/aug/01/donald-trump-said-hes-done-more-african-americans-/

[tim_m]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-black-unemployment-rate-twitter-claim-african-american-lowest-in-history-fact-check/

[PermissionToLand]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/10/politics/donald-trump-hbcu-conference/index.html

“African-Americans built this nation through generations of blood, sweat and tears," Trump said. "You are entitled to a government that puts your needs, your interests and your families first."

— President Trump

“The Justice Department undertook its own investigation and, in 1973, sued Trump Management for discriminating against blacks."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html

"I've got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes.... Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that."

- Some racist loser named Drumpf

1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.

Trump called for the death of the Central Park Five and maintained his position even after they were found innocent. Racist.

Actions speak louder than the words of a pathological liar. How helplessly gullible are you people?

Unemployment for minorities is at a record low.  But Orange Man racist. 

Yes, as proven above, he is racist. He has done nothing to reduce unemployment for minorities, he is taking credit for the progress of Obama. You tell us some actual policy changes he has implemented that suggest he deserves credit for that fact. I'll wait...

The rate of decrease in unemployment has not significantly changed since Obama:



In the meantime, let's look at some other things you left out of your cherry-picking:

Black Homeownership Drops to All-Time Low

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-homeownership-drops-to-all-time-low-11563183015

- The probabality of a loan denial is 36.9% higher for back-owned firm in comparison to their white, male owned business counterparts.
- While white families have a median wealth of $171,000, black families have a median wealth of just $17,600.
- When researchers from the institute looked at median wealth from 1983 to 2016 (adjusting for inflation), black families saw their wealth decrease by more than half, while white families saw theirs rise by 33 percent.
- Black families in America earn just $57.30 for every $100 in income earned by white families
- Nearly one in five black households has zero or negative net worth. The share of white households without any wealth is considerably smaller, at 9 percent
- If current trends continue, it will take 228 years for the average black family to reach the level of wealth white families own today.



And while you have nothing whatsoever to back up your claim that Trump deserves credit for black unemployment, here is copious evidence that he is HURTING black Americans:

- His Justice Department has ended investigation into police departments that discriminated against African Americans (for example, Baltimore).
- The Justice Department switched its position in gerrymandering and voter-ID lawsuits, supporting defendant states against plaintiffs challenging laws. This, despite the fact that states like North Carolina have had laws struck down for targeting black voters "with surgical precision", according to the appeals court judges.
- Rolling back environmental regulations, which overwhelmingly affect black Americans because they are exposed to 38% more polluted air than white Americans and are 75% more likely to live in communities that border service and industrial facilities that emit noise, odor, and chemical emissions.
- The Federal Housing Administration (FHA) canceled an imminent cut to its annual mortgage insurance premiums. This change will make it uniquely more difficult for black families to afford homeownership—nearly half of all African-American homebuyers in the United States rely on FHA insurance, compared to just one in five white homebuyers.
- He proposed to eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency’s Office of Environmental Justice. The environmental justice office was created nearly 25 years ago to address, through grantmaking and coordination of federal policy across the entire cabinet, the concentration of environmental harms in minority communities.

I eagerly await you both addressing each one of these points with logical counter arguments.  

[tim_m]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/10/politics/donald-trump-hbcu-conference/index.html

“African-Americans built this nation through generations of blood, sweat and tears," Trump said. "You are entitled to a government that puts your needs, your interests and your families first."

— President Trump

“The Justice Department undertook its own investigation and, in 1973, sued Trump Management for discriminating against blacks."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html

"I've got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes.... Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that."

- Some racist loser named Drumpf

1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.

Trump called for the death of the Central Park Five and maintained his position even after they were found innocent. Racist.

Actions speak louder than the words of a pathological liar. How helplessly gullible are you people?

Unemployment for minorities is at a record low.  But Orange Man racist. 

Yes, as proven above, he is racist. He has done nothing to reduce unemployment for minorities, he is taking credit for the progress of Obama. You tell us some actual policy changes he has implemented that suggest he deserves credit for that fact. I'll wait...

The rate of decrease in unemployment has not significantly changed since Obama:



In the meantime, let's look at some other things you left out of your cherry-picking:

Black Homeownership Drops to All-Time Low

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-homeownership-drops-to-all-time-low-11563183015

- The probabality of a loan denial is 36.9% higher for back-owned firm in comparison to their white, male owned business counterparts.
- While white families have a median wealth of $171,000, black families have a median wealth of just $17,600.
- When researchers from the institute looked at median wealth from 1983 to 2016 (adjusting for inflation), black families saw their wealth decrease by more than half, while white families saw theirs rise by 33 percent.
- Black families in America earn just $57.30 for every $100 in income earned by white families
- Nearly one in five black households has zero or negative net worth. The share of white households without any wealth is considerably smaller, at 9 percent
- If current trends continue, it will take 228 years for the average black family to reach the level of wealth white families own today.



And while you have nothing whatsoever to back up your claim that Trump deserves credit for black unemployment, here is copious evidence that he is HURTING black Americans:

- His Justice Department has ended investigation into police departments that discriminated against African Americans (for example, Baltimore).
- The Justice Department switched its position in gerrymandering and voter-ID lawsuits, supporting defendant states against plaintiffs challenging laws. This, despite the fact that states like North Carolina have had laws struck down for targeting black voters "with surgical precision", according to the appeals court judges.
- Rolling back environmental regulations, which overwhelmingly affect black Americans because they are exposed to 38% more polluted air than white Americans and are 75% more likely to live in communities that border service and industrial facilities that emit noise, odor, and chemical emissions.
- The Federal Housing Administration (FHA) canceled an imminent cut to its annual mortgage insurance premiums. This change will make it uniquely more difficult for black families to afford homeownership—nearly half of all African-American homebuyers in the United States rely on FHA insurance, compared to just one in five white homebuyers.
- He proposed to eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency’s Office of Environmental Justice. The environmental justice office was created nearly 25 years ago to address, through grantmaking and coordination of federal policy across the entire cabinet, the concentration of environmental harms in minority communities.

I eagerly await you both addressing each one of these points with logical counter arguments.  

And we can add this too.

THE FACTS: Mr. Trump is seeking credit he doesn't deserve for black job growth. He's also wrong to assert that Democrats haven't done anything to improve the economic situation for African Americans.

It's true that black unemployment did reach a record low during the Trump administration: 5.9 percent in May 2018. It currently stands at 6 percent.

But many economists view the continued economic growth since the middle of 2009, when Democratic President Barack Obama was in office, as the primary explanation for hiring. More important, there are multiple signs that the racial wealth gap is now worsening and the administration appears to have done little, if anything, to specifically address this challenge.

African Americans also had higher income prior to the Trump administration. A black household earned median income of $40,258 in 2017, the latest data available. That's below a 2000 peak of $42,348, according to the Census Bureau.

The most dramatic drop in black unemployment came under Obama, when it fell from a recession high of 16.8 percent in March 2010 to 7.8 percent in January 2017.

[pilferk]

Unemployment for minorities is at a record low.  But Orange Man racist. 

One of the single most ridiculous things I've seen posted in this thread (and that covers a LOT of ground)....and you know it.

First of all,there is zero correlation between those two things.  His ACTIONS and WORDS show he's racist.  Not a economic trend that he has done nothing to directly effect. Since the two things aren't ACTUALLY correlated, in any way, the analogy makes no sense. 

Second, the trend you're citing started under Obama, was more drastic under Obama, flattened under Trump, and has, in some cases, reversed slightly.

So, EVEN IF YOU USE YOUR BAD ANALOGY, it doesn't hold water.

Also, using your analogy, there are a bunch of Republican presidents, lawmakers, and governors who are UNBELIEVABLY racist just because minority unemployment numbers increased on their watch.  See? Patently ridiculous.

Third, if your defense of his racism is that it's OK, because the targets of his racism are "better off, so they should simply accept it"...well, that's disgusting.  And if that ISN'T your defense, then, given one and two, your whole analogy is irrelevant and flawed.

[sandman]

I'm all for term limits. I've been saying they're needed for many years now. Unfortunately its not easily done, as it would require a constitutional amendment. I still think in general most people who enter politics at first really do have good intentions. Power and money corrupts. Yes that needs to go to. The SCOTUS made a terrible decision on that one. I don't know what the hell they were thinking. Do all that. Get all big money out, give them a bit of a raise so maybe they won't be tempted for being bribed and maybe we can actually get a congress and senate that works!

You're forgetting the new crop of politicians who grew up on talk radio and actually believe their own party's propaganda. They're not in it for the money, they're true believers.

if you genuinely want to help people, elected office is the last place you would go.

you go there for the control, the money, the power.

you're right about the salary. but there are connections and relationships and information that elected officials are privy to, that we are not. the higher the office, the higher the payoffs.

Right, because power certainly can't be used to help people! Working at a local food bank has a larger effect than national policy!

but dem voters are not helping by voting for lifelong politicians like Biden, Bernie, and Warren. same old shit with any of them.  

Yes, unlike those spring chickens in the GOP like Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Chuck Grassley and Jim Inhoffe...

Kudos to the Trump administration for this. It's the right thing to do.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-to-consider-e-cigarette-policy-amid-outbreak-of-lung-disease.html

We've seen instances of this mysterious illness related to vaping....and until the CDC (or someone) can figure out it's cause, these products SHOULD be banned.

Remember how they excoriated Obama for "picking winners and losers" over freaking subsidies? Imagine the shitstorm if he outright banned a product from the market. They would be drawing up impeachment papers or gearing up their militias to defend the "government tyranny" by the following day.

you really show your lack of life experience when the best example you come up with for helping people is working in a soup kitchen. also, how many politicians actually influence national policy? not a very large number. and those are set positions, so if it wasn't chuck schumer (or whoever), someone else would fill that role to carry forward the will of each party. there would be no void. but look at the people that have created their own initiatives to help people all across the country. they run these initiatives like a small business and make a difference in thousands of peoples lives. open your mind a little and you could come up with many ways to invest in others and make a career out of helping people.

[sandman]

it's always worth a try to end war through diplomacy and understanding the other side.

Funny how that wasn't the case when Obama did it... there's that selective amnesia again!

what war did Obama end? and how did he use diplomacy and understanding the other side to end it? and who said it was not worth a try when Obama did it? was it someone on this board? I was fairly active in the Obama thread and this is not ringing a bell. I am trying to better understand your "selective amnesia" comment.

[sandman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSbxKKd5ys0

seeing them walk out together to Enter Sandman was awesome!!!!

Trump honors Yankees great Mariano Rivera with Medal of Freedom

President Trump honored Hall of Fame Yankees pitching great Mariano Rivera with the Presidential Medal of Freedom on Monday in a White House East Room ceremony, an honor the president enjoys bestowing on major sports figures.

The retired 49-year-old Rivera, known simply as "The Closer," spent more than 19 seasons with the New York Yankees, where he became Major League Baseball's all-time leader in saves. He currently holds the record for most career saves with 652.

"He may be the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball," the president said after introducing Rivera by his nickname, The Sandman.

A 13-time All Star and five-time World Series champion, this summer he added another record to his list of accolades when he became the first player unanimously voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

When he spoke at his Hall of Fame induction, where nearly 55,000 people celebrated him, the widely-respected icon recalled that baseball was not originally part of his career plans. He left high school to work on his father's fishing boat and planned to become a mechanic in his home country of Panama.

"I was the happiest man in baseball," Rivera said at the White House Monday. Rivera touched on one of the president's favorite topics — immigration.

"Learning English is the first thing that we should do," Rivera said of immigrants.

Monday's ceremony marked the 12th Medal of Freedom Mr. Trump has bestowed in office, and Rivera is the seventh sports figure to receive the award from Mr. Trump. Previous sportsmen honored by the president include the late Yankees icon Babe Ruth and pro golfer Tiger Woods.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-trump-honors-yankees-great-mariano-rivera-with-medal-of-freedom-live-stream/

[tim_m]

Rivera definitely deserves it, he's a great example of someone who uses his fame and fortune to help people. I'm not sure I'd go as far as Trump to say he's the best pitcher ever, closer absolutely though.

[sandman]

Rivera definitely deserves it, he's a great example of someone who uses his fame and fortune to help people. I'm not sure I'd go as far as Trump to say he's the best pitcher ever, closer absolutely though.

Trump said "maybe" the best pitcher of all time. and I think that is a fair comment, because Mo deserves to be mentioned among the all time great pitchers. it is difficult to compare SPs to closers, but the impact he had on games was enormous and sometimes unmeasurable. if the Yankees got a lead, there was a psychological advantage because the other team knew if they were down in the 8th or 9th, it was over.

but yeah, his efforts helping people is world class.