Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[tim_m]

It takes 2 to tango as they say. 

Just going to riff on this a bit....and this isn't really directed to the good Senator,but just a riff.

If that's the case, then, along with these bills (esp the Alabama bill) should be a "Mens responsibilities bill".

It should include:
Child support retroactive to the date of conception, and mandated until the child's 25th birthday.

AND since a woman working while pregnant COULD lead to miscarriage (or harm to the zygote):

The man should provide full medical coverage to the mother from conception until the child's first birthday (by which point any complications from the birth should have been resolved...up to, and including, hernia repair).

The man should provide full monetary support to the mother, including paying for room and board, as well as 66% of any remaining work proceeds (33% for the mother, 33% for the child) until such point that the mother is deemed fit to return to work after child birth, and the child is released from medical care. This is in addition to child support.  If the man can not provide the equivalent of minimum wage to the mother and child (when considering room and board and % of wages), he should be incarcarated and forced to work for the state, until he can provide such support and has covered all arearages.

Mandated Child support also continues to accumulates, and would be paid out of the mans remaining 33% (he would be forced to cover arearage after the fact if he can not cover the entire amount out of his remaining proceeds), assuming he is not incarcarated.  If he is incarcerated, arrearage still continues to accrue and will be garnished from future wages, but release does not occur until all monies owed are current.

The man should be required, by law, to establish, from the moment of conception, life insurance policies on both the mother and child of not less than 500k, each (to ensure coverage and care for the child, in the case of the mothers The death or care for the mother, in case of the child's death).

The man should be required, by law, to live no further than 20 miles from the mother and child during the gestation period. He is legally required to respond to any needs she has in relation to her pregnancy (including 2 AM cravings).

The man should be required, by law, to provide any and all transport (directly or indirectly) to medical appointments or other child preparation needs, at the dates and times of the mothers choosing.

Any violation of this policy should result in incarceration and forced work for the state....during which arearages will accrue based on type of work they are able to perform while in custody.  The man will remain incarcerated until arearages are paid, or til they expire.

Fair, right?

Of course not.  That's barbaric and almost slavery.

Just like forcing a woman to carry a child for 9 months, and give birth is barbaric and akin to slavery.  Potentially 19 years or so of it, depending.  And what a positive, rewarding, healthy upbringing that is likely to be for a child.

One other point:

"Gun laws don't stop violence because criminals will still find and get guns".

I disagree (we saw this with the Clinton Assault Rifle ban), but it's the Republican stance.

Well, we know for a fact abortion laws don't stop abortions.  They just make them illegal, unsafe, or force women to travel far from home to get them.   And yet....many Republicans, who scream about the 2A (which I am a supporter of) and then preach there should be abortion laws.

The fact is:  There are people in socio-economic situations, or living situation, which do not make having a child a good idea.  And sometimes...birth control fails.  I have a living, breathing, walking, talking example of it living in my house!  We conceived my youngest while my wife was ON THE PILL!  We were talking about having another, but had not yet made a final decision, and she was still taking her pills. In fact, she was taking her pills for the first month she was pregnant with her!  We were lucky in that...we were totally set up for, and happy to welcome, a 3rd kid.

I know LOTS of people who would not be in that situation.  Rape, Incest, and life of the mother are great exceptions, but...what about "oh shit the condom broke"? Or..."fuck my pills didn't work"?  or "Shit my IUD has a tear in it"? 

Far more often than the conservatives would have you believe, THOSE are the reasons people get an abortion.  not because they were acting irresponsibly (and yes, those happen too).

AND....how about we acknowledge that birth control should be affordable and available to EVERYONE.  Humans are sexual creatures.  We just are, by and large.  And to tie birth control to economic means just CREATES a climate where people are going to run into issues.  And the Republican stance of "Well, poor people shouldn't fuck" is just assinine.  Repubs don't want anything other than abstinance preached in high school, don't want wide availability of birth control (the real reason they war on Planned Parenthood), and don't want abortions.  Those three things are just not compatible stances when you label yourself "pro-life".

Riff/Rant over.

Would you at all object to me posting this on Facebook?

[sandman]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

You outright lied about about Obama and the Russian interference. It's been fact checked multiple times in this thread but you still cling to your narrative.

sorry, Obama told Putin to "cut it out".   

where I come from, that is considered "nothing". I mean shit, why don't we settle all of our disputes that way?? maybe Obama could call the JV team of terrorists and tell them to "cut it out" too!!

also, I was talking specifically BEFORE the election (ya know, when it actually mattered). and Obama was his typical self. lots of over-thinking and indecisiveness. for MONTHS. a weakly worded statement from DHS regarding wiki leaks was not enough for the public to connect all of the dots.

he "choked."

but hey, if those actions count as something for you, i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

[jarmo]

i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

You're fake news!!!!

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

Question: Did you agree with Trump asking Russia for help? Yes/No




/jarmo

[sandman]

i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

You're fake news!!!!

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

Question: Did you agree with Trump asking Russia for help? Yes/No




/jarmo

damn! I had a nice response (IMO) that I deleted before hitting the post button.

Anyway, i'm assuming you are talking about the comment at a press conference asking Russia for help finding Hillary's 33,000 e-mails. If so, my truthful response is NO. he should not have said that.

[sandman]

i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

You're fake news!!!!

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

Question: Did you agree with Trump asking Russia for help? Yes/No




/jarmo

QUESTION: Are you bothered by Elizabeth Warren's comments regarding Fox News? YES or NO


“Hate-for-profit works only if there’s profit, so Fox News balances a mix of bigotry, racism, and outright lies with enough legit journalism to make the claim to advertisers that it’s a reputable news outlet,” Ms. Warren wrote. “It’s all about dragging in ad money — big ad money.”

“A Democratic town hall gives the Fox News sales team a way to tell potential sponsors it’s safe to buy ads on Fox,” she continued. “I won’t ask millions of Democratic primary voters to tune into an outlet that profits from racism and hate.”

[jarmo]

If so, my truthful response is NO. he should not have said that.

So we agree on something!

QUESTION: Are you bothered by Elizabeth Warren's comments regarding Fox News? YES or NO


“Hate-for-profit works only if there’s profit, so Fox News balances a mix of bigotry, racism, and outright lies with enough legit journalism to make the claim to advertisers that it’s a reputable news outlet,” Ms. Warren wrote. “It’s all about dragging in ad money — big ad money.”

“A Democratic town hall gives the Fox News sales team a way to tell potential sponsors it’s safe to buy ads on Fox,” she continued. “I won’t ask millions of Democratic primary voters to tune into an outlet that profits from racism and hate.”

No.

It's her opinion. What do you expect? That she'll praise their ethics?

It's not like she labeled them the enemy of the people.....

They're in the business of making money and they're using the fear of the left to do so. Isn't this the channel where they labeled Obama a racist? 





/jarmo

[sandman]

If so, my truthful response is NO. he should not have said that.

So we agree on something!

QUESTION: Are you bothered by Elizabeth Warren's comments regarding Fox News? YES or NO


“Hate-for-profit works only if there’s profit, so Fox News balances a mix of bigotry, racism, and outright lies with enough legit journalism to make the claim to advertisers that it’s a reputable news outlet,” Ms. Warren wrote. “It’s all about dragging in ad money — big ad money.”

“A Democratic town hall gives the Fox News sales team a way to tell potential sponsors it’s safe to buy ads on Fox,” she continued. “I won’t ask millions of Democratic primary voters to tune into an outlet that profits from racism and hate.”

No.

It's her opinion. What do you expect? That she'll praise their ethics?

It's not like she labeled them the enemy of the people.....

They're in the business of making money and they're using the fear of the left to do so. Isn't this the channel where they labeled Obama a racist? 





/jarmo

I knew there had to be something we agree on! Aside from axl being a god, that is!

[tim_m]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

You outright lied about about Obama and the Russian interference. It's been fact checked multiple times in this thread but you still cling to your narrative.

sorry, Obama told Putin to "cut it out".   

where I come from, that is considered "nothing". I mean shit, why don't we settle all of our disputes that way?? maybe Obama could call the JV team of terrorists and tell them to "cut it out" too!!

also, I was talking specifically BEFORE the election (ya know, when it actually mattered). and Obama was his typical self. lots of over-thinking and indecisiveness. for MONTHS. a weakly worded statement from DHS regarding wiki leaks was not enough for the public to connect all of the dots.

he "choked."

but hey, if those actions count as something for you, i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

He did do not then that, look at what pilfrek posted. Certainly more could've been done prior to the election but without bipartisan help he didn't want to have the appearance of interfering with the election even if whatever else he had done wasn't. If he had done more just months before the election, do you think Trump wouldn't have been screaming about election interference by the Democrats. I think he did as much as he could since McConnell refused help without creating the perception of interfering. Aside from that, we should be discussing what are we, what is Trump doing to ensure this does not happen again in 2020?

[pilferk]

Would you at all object to me posting this on Facebook?

So, I'm flattered you'd like to do that.

But I would prefer not....for a couple reasons.

First, I prefer to keep my words where I have some control over them, and can defend them if necessary.

But more importantly than that, there's a personal anecdote in there about my youngest daughter which I would prefer not be "out there" on FB, on the very slight chance it went "viral".  It's not a discussion we've had with her (she's only 12), because it has some nuances (mistake vs happy surprise) we're not sure she'd grasp yet. I'd like us to be able to come to that in our own time.

Again, flattered you'd want to do that, though.

[pilferk]

He did do not then that, look at what pilfrek posted. Certainly more could've been done prior to the election but without bipartisan help he didn't want to have the appearance of interfering with the election even if whatever else he had done wasn't. If he had done more just months before the election, do you think Trump wouldn't have been screaming about election interference by the Democrats. I think he did as much as he could since McConnell refused help without creating the perception of interfering. Aside from that, we should be discussing what are we, what is Trump doing to ensure this does not happen again in 2020?

Here's the thing, tim.

Had he done more, the Republicans and Trump would have held it up as a shining example that Obama was trying to interfere with the election process and was trying to rig things against Trump.  You know it, I know it, and they know it. Hell, MCCONNELL SAID IT! So at the end of the day, he was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't. Could he have been more forceful and insistent with the Republicans and basically told them if they didn't sign on he was going to throw them under the bus? Sure. And then they would be bitching about that.  ESPECIALLY if Hillary had won.  They would have used it to delegitimize HER..and everyone knows it....saying Obama used the presidency to effect the election outcome by "smearning" Trump and associating him with Russian interference (even though, in fact, we now know it's all true).

They say "he didn't do anything" or "he did next to nothing" not because its true, but because it's the only way they can, in their minds, legitimize Trumps election.  Because if Obama did what he feasibly could (given the timeline and logistical/political realities), and they have no one else to blame...the only thing they have left is: Russia interfered. Obama and the Dems tried to stop them (look at the fact THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES WHO DID (or have done) ANYTHING!) and DID ISSUE WARNINGS.  And the Repubs sat back, ignored them, and watched because it is/was politically convenient, AND Trumps election was at least partially due to that fact (delegitimizing his presidency).

The facts are ugly. The facts make "their guy", and his election, look suspect.  The facts make the Republicans, and people who voted for him, look like rubes and fools.  So it's much easier (and easier on their egos) to lie and "whatabout".

Never mind the fact they voted for a guy, and will likely do so again in 2020, who has done NOTHING to combat it NOW (or going forward).  Not "next to nothing" (even if that were true of Obama). NOTHING. Zip. Zero. Nada. And, in fact, he has UNDONE much of what the previous administration TRIED TO DO to stop them.  Instead, the Republicans (voters and those in power) prefer to deflect and try to relitigate the previous administration (who is no longer in office). They can't defend Trumps inaction, so they try to change the subject (and lie). Which is really unfortunate because, as you pointed out, THIS is the topic we should be concentrating on: How to stop it for 2020.

I'll say it again: Anyone who says Obama did nothing to try to stop Russian interference is lying.  It's not an opinion when they say it.  It's not an understatement.  It's not a mistake.  Its a bald face lie told because they can't handle the facts of what happened, and still feel good about who they voted for.  Its a manifestation of identity politics....plain and simple!

[pilferk]

No.

It's her opinion. What do you expect? That she'll praise their ethics?

It's not like she labeled them the enemy of the people.....

They're in the business of making money and they're using the fear of the left to do so. Isn't this the channel where they labeled Obama a racist? 

/jarmo

Yes. A racist AND a muslim AND someone not born in this country.  They, at different times, had personalities supporting and saying all that, yes.  And Hannity with Pizzagate (don't ask).  And all sorts of other hair brained, crack pot, completely untrue (and easy to debunk) shit.

On Warrens' opinions about Fox: It also happens to be true.

Fox News, by their own admission (via their CEO) is not a news agency.  They don't purport or report to be one.  They view themselves as an entertainment outlet internally, and their competitors as entertainment networks.  Again, that's not opinion.  It's what their former CEO said.

And their whole schtick is to provide just enough news to obscure that fact.  Their main purpose is to garner ratings from the Republican/Conservative viewers.  And they do that by spouting lies, half truths, and slanted information that denigrate the position (and humanity) of Democrats/Liberals (and independents, really).

Watching Fox News is a little like watching a regional sports network (like YES for example).  They're all homers, everything gets spun, there is no bad news, and the other team is the enemy!!  It's worse (because the sports networks will treat the other teams players better on camera), but it's close.

If you go on to Fox News, IMHO, you legitimize their network, their propaganda, and their message.  They deserve none of that.

By the by...I would largely say the same thing about Republicans and MSNBC, even if MSNBC plays it a LITTLE closer to the news and less "propaganda-y".  But only a little.

[sandman]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

You outright lied about about Obama and the Russian interference. It's been fact checked multiple times in this thread but you still cling to your narrative.

sorry, Obama told Putin to "cut it out".   

where I come from, that is considered "nothing". I mean shit, why don't we settle all of our disputes that way?? maybe Obama could call the JV team of terrorists and tell them to "cut it out" too!!

also, I was talking specifically BEFORE the election (ya know, when it actually mattered). and Obama was his typical self. lots of over-thinking and indecisiveness. for MONTHS. a weakly worded statement from DHS regarding wiki leaks was not enough for the public to connect all of the dots.

he "choked."

but hey, if those actions count as something for you, i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

He did do not then that, look at what pilfrek posted. Certainly more could've been done prior to the election but without bipartisan help he didn't want to have the appearance of interfering with the election even if whatever else he had done wasn't. If he had done more just months before the election, do you think Trump wouldn't have been screaming about election interference by the Democrats. I think he did as much as he could since McConnell refused help without creating the perception of interfering. Aside from that, we should be discussing what are we, what is Trump doing to ensure this does not happen again in 2020?

So Obama was so worried about what Trump would say, he allowed a foreign nation to interfere and impact a presidential election.

the results of a US presidential election have an enormous impact on the country and the world. Impacts that will last at least a generation. 

and despite the impact on the world of a Trump win, Obama said "screw it, avoiding all of that and preventing a foreign country from affecting our election is not worth having to listen to Trump bitch about me."

got it.

[tim_m]

Would you at all object to me posting this on Facebook?

So, I'm flattered you'd like to do that.

But I would prefer not....for a couple reasons.

First, I prefer to keep my words where I have some control over them, and can defend them if necessary.

But more importantly than that, there's a personal anecdote in there about my youngest daughter which I would prefer not be "out there" on FB, on the very slight chance it went "viral".  It's not a discussion we've had with her (she's only 12), because it has some nuances (mistake vs happy surprise) we're not sure she'd grasp yet. I'd like us to be able to come to that in our own time.

Again, flattered you'd want to do that, though.

No problem, i completely understand. I just thought you made really good points on how ludicrous the laws are.

[tim_m]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

You outright lied about about Obama and the Russian interference. It's been fact checked multiple times in this thread but you still cling to your narrative.

sorry, Obama told Putin to "cut it out".   

where I come from, that is considered "nothing". I mean shit, why don't we settle all of our disputes that way?? maybe Obama could call the JV team of terrorists and tell them to "cut it out" too!!

also, I was talking specifically BEFORE the election (ya know, when it actually mattered). and Obama was his typical self. lots of over-thinking and indecisiveness. for MONTHS. a weakly worded statement from DHS regarding wiki leaks was not enough for the public to connect all of the dots.

he "choked."

but hey, if those actions count as something for you, i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

He did do not then that, look at what pilfrek posted. Certainly more could've been done prior to the election but without bipartisan help he didn't want to have the appearance of interfering with the election even if whatever else he had done wasn't. If he had done more just months before the election, do you think Trump wouldn't have been screaming about election interference by the Democrats. I think he did as much as he could since McConnell refused help without creating the perception of interfering. Aside from that, we should be discussing what are we, what is Trump doing to ensure this does not happen again in 2020?

So Obama was so worried about what Trump would say, he allowed a foreign nation to interfere and impact a presidential election.

the results of a US presidential election have an enormous impact on the country and the world. Impacts that will last at least a generation. 

and despite the impact on the world of a Trump win, Obama said "screw it, avoiding all of that and preventing a foreign country from affecting our election is not worth having to listen to Trump bitch about me."

got it.

I don't think he simply said screw it, but surely he didn't to be accused of tampering with the election. Why else wait to eject the Russian diplomats until after the election? More could've and should've been done but can you say without a doubt he wouldn't be accused of tampering whether by Trump or anyone else? Remember Trump refused to say he'd accept the results if he had lost. Imagine if Obama did all he really wanted to on his own without bipartisan support, which he asked for and Trump lost. Trump would lose his fucking mind. Obama should have  said screw you Mitch i am going to do everything i can to end this with or without your help no matter how it looks. You are so focused on what Obama did or didn't do that you seem to care nothing about congress stonewalling him when he asked for assistance, nor do you seem to share any concern about the fact we and Trump have done nothing to prevent it from happening in 2020 and has infact You think anti Trumpers have TDS. It seem as Trump and his supporters have ODS. Obama derangement syndrome.

[pilferk]

I don't think he simply said screw it, but surely he didn't to be accused of tampering with the election. Why else wait to eject the Russian diplomats until after the election? More could've and should've been done but can you say without a doubt he wouldn't be accused of tampering whether by Trump or anyone else? Remember Trump refused to say he'd accept the results if he had lost. Imagine if Obama did all he really wanted to on his own without bipartisan support, which he asked for and Trump lost. Trump would lose his fucking mind. Obama should have  said screw you Mitch i am going to do everything i can to end this with or without your help no matter how it looks. You are so focused on what Obama did or didn't do that you seem to care nothing about congress stonewalling him when he asked for assistance, nor do you seem to share any concern about the fact we and Trump have done nothing to prevent it from happening in 2020 and has infact You think anti Trumpers have TDS. It seem as Trump and his supporters have ODS. Obama derangement syndrome.

The Kool Aid drinkers are just never going to acknowledge that the reason more wasn't done was because the Republican leadership basically threatened POTUS (while holding both legislative branches).  McConnell told Obama if he went forward with releasing the intel to the public, that he/they would NOT sign on, and would accuse him of partisanship and election tampering. Regardless of what the intelligence community/agencies said.

Election tampering that is a CRIME, FYI.  They did everything but say the actual words "impeachment".  And yes, Obama was a lame duck by June/July/Aug when he was briefing congress and asking for their support. And yes, he could have said fuck you and done it anyway...and let them blast him (and by proxy HRC) for the last 2 months of the election. But he did institute sanctions.  He did tell Putin what he was doing was an act of war and he should stop. He did confiscate property.  And yes, after the fact, he expelled Russian diplomats....probably expecting that..hey, now the Repubs have to deal with it because it's entirely their shit show.  Giving the Repubs WAY too much credit, I guess....because, I mean...look around?

Ultimately, he did, sort of, tell the Repubs to fuck off.  He asked Shiff and company to issue a statement.  He had DHS issue a statement.  Both were roundly ignored by Republicans.  Who now say they, instead, needed a bullhorn sounding directly in their ears, from not less then 3 feet away.  As if they would have listened to that, either. 

And had he done ALL that (manning the bullhorn himself), and Trump lost, the Repubs would STILL be bitching, today.  For a guy trying to establish his legacy, and who really DIDN'T want to be seen as putting his thumb too far onto the scale, he did everything he could reasonably be expected to.

And Trump has still done nothing....which you will see conservative roundly ignore, every time you bring it up, and change the subject to Obama....and lie some more about what he did, and the position he was in.

All while planning to vote for Trump, and their favorite red jersey competitors in congress, in 2020.

Anyone who says they are outraged over Obama's handling of it, and then gives Trump and Congress a pass on their INACTION, is a hypocrit (or a troll...or both). Plain and simple.  You literally can't be outraged by one and give the others, who are more to blame (and who's actions actually have ramifications NOW) a flyer on this.

But it's way more convenient for their fragile egos and identity politics to change the subject...and lie some more.

[sandman]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

You outright lied about about Obama and the Russian interference. It's been fact checked multiple times in this thread but you still cling to your narrative.

sorry, Obama told Putin to "cut it out".   

where I come from, that is considered "nothing". I mean shit, why don't we settle all of our disputes that way?? maybe Obama could call the JV team of terrorists and tell them to "cut it out" too!!

also, I was talking specifically BEFORE the election (ya know, when it actually mattered). and Obama was his typical self. lots of over-thinking and indecisiveness. for MONTHS. a weakly worded statement from DHS regarding wiki leaks was not enough for the public to connect all of the dots.

he "choked."

but hey, if those actions count as something for you, i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

He did do not then that, look at what pilfrek posted. Certainly more could've been done prior to the election but without bipartisan help he didn't want to have the appearance of interfering with the election even if whatever else he had done wasn't. If he had done more just months before the election, do you think Trump wouldn't have been screaming about election interference by the Democrats. I think he did as much as he could since McConnell refused help without creating the perception of interfering. Aside from that, we should be discussing what are we, what is Trump doing to ensure this does not happen again in 2020?

So Obama was so worried about what Trump would say, he allowed a foreign nation to interfere and impact a presidential election.

the results of a US presidential election have an enormous impact on the country and the world. Impacts that will last at least a generation. 

and despite the impact on the world of a Trump win, Obama said "screw it, avoiding all of that and preventing a foreign country from affecting our election is not worth having to listen to Trump bitch about me."

got it.

Trump would lose his fucking mind.

And?

he would have been a losing presidential candidate who was out of politics. you're talking about a guy who openly criticized Obama for years. hell, he won and he still criticizes Obama anyway!

my point is....your reasoning doesn't jive. maybe I've giving Obama too much credit, but he's a smart guy and I find it hard to believe he didn't do shit about a foreign nation impacting a fucking national election because he was worried that Trump and freakin Mitch McConnell would bitch.

the fact that you don't realize how stupid that sounds....all I can say is, like most things discussed here, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Maybe what really happened was that some in Obama administration were more focused on entrapping Trump and his campaign officials, rather than actually protecting national security. This is evidenced by the fact that Obama intel officials secretly told the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that Russia was targeting the Trump campaign, but never actually advised the Trump campaign. why is that??? they certainly let the DNC know earlier that they were targeted by the Russians. did Obama get burned playing a dangerous game of trying to catch Trump with his hand in the cookie jar?

[PermissionToLand]

Emily Ratajkowski is so woke...

“This week, 25 old white men voted to ban abortion in Alabama even in cases of incest and rape. These men in power are imposing their wills onto the bodies of women in order to uphold the patriarchy and perpetuate the industrial prison complex by presenting women of low income opportunity the right to chose not to reproduce. The states trying to ban abortions have the highest proportions of black women living there. This is about class and race and is a direct attack on the fundamental human rights women in the US deserve and are protected by under Roe v Wade. Our bodies, out choice.“

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

"Pointing out racism is racism!" - Sandman

 

Wow. Biden just cant learn, or just doesnt care. On stage in philly, and a female had to grab his hands and remove them from her waist. You’d think he’d be embarrassed. It looks so bad.

... says the supporter of "Grab 'em By the Pussy" man. Could you be any more nakedly hypocritical? Your faux concern trolling isn't fooling anyone.

I’m just pointing out facts that you clearly cant handle.

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words. Real good look for you. You’re not exactly a champion for women now, eh?

You have alot to learn, kid.

Claiming that pointing out racism is racism is not "pointing out facts", it's making an ass of yourself by saying something so laughably and demonstrably dumb and false that nobody is going to take you seriously. But you seem to be used to that.

But hey, I'm open to hear how calling out racism is racism. Let's see your "facts". I'll wait... 

Nope, I don't like Biden for his treatment of women and many other reasons. Now that we got your strawman out of the way, explain your double standard because we know for a fact that you defend Trump and yet take shots at Biden for the same things Trump does on a much worse scale. You're not exactly a champion for women now, eh? Again, we're all waiting...

You have a lot to learn, kid. 

Your desperate "gotchas" are so weak it's fucking hilarious. I eagerly await you owning yourself yet again in response to this.

[PermissionToLand]

sorry, Obama told Putin to "cut it out".   

where I come from, that is considered "nothing". I mean shit, why don't we settle all of our disputes that way?? maybe Obama could call the JV team of terrorists and tell them to "cut it out" too!!

also, I was talking specifically BEFORE the election (ya know, when it actually mattered). and Obama was his typical self. lots of over-thinking and indecisiveness. for MONTHS. a weakly worded statement from DHS regarding wiki leaks was not enough for the public to connect all of the dots.

he "choked."

but hey, if those actions count as something for you, i'll concede. to be 100% factually correct, I should say Obama did very little, or essentially nothing. sorry for "lying." 

now if brainwashed people like yourself would actually evaluate your leaders HONESTLY and hold them accountable when they fuck up rather than kissing their ass every chance you get, maybe our political system would not be so corrupt.

If you aren't a liar, then respond to Pilferk's post, point by point, refuting his arguments.

You won't because you are a liar and you know it as well as everyone else on here does. A liar and a coward on top of that because you act like his post doesn't exist and repeating things he already debunked conclusively.

[jarmo]

Wow. Biden just cant learn, or just doesnt care. On stage in philly, and a female had to grab his hands and remove them from her waist. You’d think he’d be embarrassed. It looks so bad.

Is it true that the female you're referring to was his wife? Yes/No?




/jarmo

[pilferk]

Wow. Biden just cant learn, or just doesnt care. On stage in philly, and a female had to grab his hands and remove them from her waist. You’d think he’d be embarrassed. It looks so bad.

Is it true that the female you're referring to was his wife? Yes/No?




/jarmo

I mean...you can wait for his response if you want.

But it is 100% factually correct.  It's not an opinion, or my assumption.  Its absolutely Jill Biden.

Which is what makes the conservative frothing over it so absolutely hilarious.  And is just one more reason you can't take their victimhood and whataboutism at all seriously.

I gotta admit, I'm still chuckling about it days later. You can not "self pwn" any better than that.  You just can't.

Edit: I mean, I guess I get it.  They're so used to seeing Melania avoid EYE contact, never mind physical contact, with Trump...they probably don't know what actual physical interactions between a husband and wife look like.