Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[jarmo]

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

I wonder why!


Personally I don't get why this issue has to be about the color of one's skin.
I also still don't understand the right wing supporters mentality regarding government. On one hand they want government to to be small, and stay out of peoples' lives. On the other hand laws about what women can and can't do with their bodies is celebrated as a victory. 



/jarmo

[tim_m]

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

I wonder why!


Personally I don't get why this issue has to be about the color of one's skin.
I also still don't understand the right wing supporters mentality regarding government. On one hand they want government to to be small, and stay out of peoples' lives. On the other hand laws about what women can and can't do with their bodies is celebrated as a victory. 



/jarmo

Hypocrisy at its finest. This really isn't about big government vs small government. This is about men, predominantly old white guys controlling women under the guise of being pro-life. When it's really about using their religious beliefs to control women. You will notice none of these laws have any punishments for the men who get the women pregnant.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

I wonder why!


Personally I don't get why this issue has to be about the color of one's skin.
I also still don't understand the right wing supporters mentality regarding government. On one hand they want government to to be small, and stay out of peoples' lives. On the other hand laws about what women can and can't do with their bodies is celebrated as a victory. 



/jarmo

Hypocrisy at its finest. This really isn't about big government vs small government. This is about men, predominantly old white guys controlling women under the guise of being pro-life. When it's really about using their religious beliefs to control women. You will notice none of these laws have any punishments for the men who get the women pregnant.

It takes 2 to tango as they say.  But when it is rape there are punishments for the men.  And I'm all for castration as an option in sentencing.

Yes, Ill totally agree with you on the hypocrisy of those on the right regarding abortion.  I know I said something along the lines of this in my previous post, but my view is if your religious beliefs make abortion abhorrent, then you have a right not to get one & also dont have a right to impose those beliefs on someone else. (Your rights end when it affects someone else's rights) . I think it is pretty shitty and irresponsible to use abortion as a form of birth control , but more importantly I dont think it is the governments role to tell someone they cant end the pregnancy early on.  Adoption should be something that is on the table also. 

On a side note, the laws need to make adoption less expensive and not as difficult. There are a lot of people who cant have kids of their own who have to adopt from outside the US because it is so much more difficult to adopt here. That needs to be changed.


But when the baby is viable ( which with current science is around 22-24 weeks) , the right to life of the baby needs to be protected. It is no longer a woman's choice at that point. Unfortunately the left and right in my opinion go too far on either end of the spectrum on this.

OK rant over.

[tim_m]

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

I wonder why!


Personally I don't get why this issue has to be about the color of one's skin.
I also still don't understand the right wing supporters mentality regarding government. On one hand they want government to to be small, and stay out of peoples' lives. On the other hand laws about what women can and can't do with their bodies is celebrated as a victory. 



/jarmo

Hypocrisy at its finest. This really isn't about big government vs small government. This is about men, predominantly old white guys controlling women under the guise of being pro-life. When it's really about using their religious beliefs to control women. You will notice none of these laws have any punishments for the men who get the women pregnant.

It takes 2 to tango as they say.  But when it is rape there are punishments for the men.  And I'm all for castration as an option in sentencing.

Yes, Ill totally agree with you on the hypocrisy of those on the right regarding abortion.  I know I said something along the lines of this in my previous post, but my view is if your religious beliefs make abortion abhorrent, then you have a right not to get one & also dont have a right to impose those beliefs on someone else. (Your rights end when it affects someone else's rights) . I think it is pretty shitty and irresponsible to use abortion as a form of birth control , but more importantly I dont think it is the governments role to tell someone they cant end the pregnancy early on.  Adoption should be something that is on the table also. 

On a side note, the laws need to make adoption less expensive and not as difficult. There are a lot of people who cant have kids of their own who have to adopt from outside the US because it is so much more difficult to adopt here. That needs to be changed.


But when the baby is viable ( which with current science is around 22-24 weeks) , the right to life of the baby needs to be protected. It is no longer a woman's choice at that point. Unfortunately the left and right in my opinion go too far on either end of the spectrum on this.

OK rant over.

100% agree about your point about abortion. It needs to be easier and more affordable. We have too many in foster care who need a good home as is.

[sandman]

Wow. Biden just cant learn, or just doesnt care. On stage in philly, and a female had to grab his hands and remove them from her waist. You’d think he’d be embarrassed. It looks so bad.

[PermissionToLand]

Emily Ratajkowski is so woke...

“This week, 25 old white men voted to ban abortion in Alabama even in cases of incest and rape. These men in power are imposing their wills onto the bodies of women in order to uphold the patriarchy and perpetuate the industrial prison complex by presenting women of low income opportunity the right to chose not to reproduce. The states trying to ban abortions have the highest proportions of black women living there. This is about class and race and is a direct attack on the fundamental human rights women in the US deserve and are protected by under Roe v Wade. Our bodies, out choice.“

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

"Pointing out racism is racism!" - Sandman

 

Wow. Biden just cant learn, or just doesnt care. On stage in philly, and a female had to grab his hands and remove them from her waist. You’d think he’d be embarrassed. It looks so bad.

... says the supporter of "Grab 'em By the Pussy" man. Could you be any more nakedly hypocritical? Your faux concern trolling isn't fooling anyone.

[sandman]

Emily Ratajkowski is so woke...

“This week, 25 old white men voted to ban abortion in Alabama even in cases of incest and rape. These men in power are imposing their wills onto the bodies of women in order to uphold the patriarchy and perpetuate the industrial prison complex by presenting women of low income opportunity the right to chose not to reproduce. The states trying to ban abortions have the highest proportions of black women living there. This is about class and race and is a direct attack on the fundamental human rights women in the US deserve and are protected by under Roe v Wade. Our bodies, out choice.“

And left wing activists call trump supporters racist? I mean WTF!?!?

"Pointing out racism is racism!" - Sandman

 

Wow. Biden just cant learn, or just doesnt care. On stage in philly, and a female had to grab his hands and remove them from her waist. You’d think he’d be embarrassed. It looks so bad.

... says the supporter of "Grab 'em By the Pussy" man. Could you be any more nakedly hypocritical? Your faux concern trolling isn't fooling anyone.

I’m just pointing out facts that you clearly cant handle.

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words. Real good look for you. You’re not exactly a champion for women now, eh?

You have alot to learn, kid.

[jarmo]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I think the Creepy Uncle Joe aspect of Biden is baked in the cake. People arent going to not vote for him if he gets slightly handsy. 

[sandman]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

[tim_m]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

[jarmo]

it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging).

Someone else keeps going on and on about it: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1129360082783875074

Move on? Nope....

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

Like I said, you keep doing the same thing. Deflections.

It's a fact that outsiders interfered with your elections and here you are pointing out how Trump is innocent.  I'm just stating facts. They did influence people and he did ask them to find those e-mails!

And no, you don't know me. In fact, it's kinda difficult to feel personally involved in an election that you don't take part in.... Hurts? Hahahaha. So nice try.

Another tactic. Because someone disagrees with you, it must mean they're a hurt liberal. Hahahaha

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

Let's see....

and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Obviously

That's how populists thrive.



/jarmo

[tim_m]

it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging).

Someone else keeps going on and on about it: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1129360082783875074

Move on? Nope....

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

Like I said, you keep doing the same thing. Deflections.

It's a fact that outsiders interfered with your elections and here you are pointing out how Trump is innocent.  I'm just stating facts. They did influence people and he did ask them to find those e-mails!

And no, you don't know me. In fact, it's kinda difficult to feel personally involved in an election that you don't take part in.... Hurts? Hahahaha. So nice try.

Another tactic. Because someone disagrees with you, it must mean they're a hurt liberal. Hahahaha

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

Let's see....

and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Obviously

That's how populists thrive.



/jarmo

Obama didn't do nothing either, he was simply impeded from doing MORE.

[jarmo]

And you know if he had done more, Trump would be saying Obama tried to influence the election... The same Trump who made it known you can't trust the election results (ironic since he had less votes).




/jarmo

[tim_m]

And you know if he had done more, Trump would be saying Obama tried to influence the election... The same Trump who made it known you can't trust the election results (ironic since he had less votes).




/jarmo

Exactly.

[pilferk]

Obama didn't do nothing either, he was simply impeded from doing MORE.

Just remember: Every time a conservative tries to spin that "whataboutism" that Obama did nothing, they are outright lying to you.  LYING.  Not mis-stating. Not misunderstanding. LYING.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.b7f56323928a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/21/what-obama-did-didnt-do-and-couldnt-do-in-response-to-russian-interference/?utm_term=.71b7fa1a00b0

In addition, Obama tried to take the intelligence public, but McConnell refused to play ball.  Obama asked that the Repubs sign on to a joint statement, so that it didn't appear (because that would be wrong) Obama was trying to interfere in the election process. McConnell refused....because he knew what it would mean, politically.  He didn't care what was right, or what was best for the Republic/voters.  He cared about having, and keeping, Republicans in power.  Period.

Obama had Congress briefed starting in LATE JUNE, 2016, and continued to update them through his presidency. At that point, not all the intelligence agencies were in agreement, but Obama thought it important enough to brief Congress.  The Russian efforts didn't begin until late 2014....and weren't even on the intelligence community's radar til mid to late 2015. They didn't really reach complete agreement until late summer 2016.  They weren't  even mentioned to the president until very early 2016....and Obama took action even just based on that.  He instituted sanctions (which Trump removed), he confiscated property on which intelligence suspected these operations were being launched (which Trump gave back) and he confronted Russian diplomats.  Hell, the guy even confronted Putin directly at the G20 in September of 2016 about it.  And when that didn't appear like it was going to work, he went to Congress with what he had.

And even after McConnell rebuffed him, Obama STILL had a statement issued, by DHS, in October. Without the cover from bipartisanship, he was left trying to walk the delicate line between getting information out there, and being seen as using his position to try to influence the outcome (and potentially being held liable, in some way, for that).

Another example that Repubs were/are more concerned with power than anything else.

And NONE of that HAS ANYTHING to do with the fact we're STILL not doing anything about it. Everyone now knows, and anyone being honest with themselves agree, what happened in 2016: The Russians interfered and they did so to the benefit of Trump.

Has anyone seen the Senate take action?  The House has passed 3 bills (including further sanctions) since JANUARY on the topic.  Guess how many the Senate has taken up?

Zero. Zippo. Nada. Nothing.

Money has been budgeted to fight their interference in future elections...and not one penny has been spent.

So, again, if anyone tells you Obama did nothing: They are outright lying to you. It's not "their opinion".  It's not ignorance.  It's an outright, calculated deception.  Plain and simple.

And anyone who tells you the Russian efforts "wouldn't work/had no effect" is, again, lying to you.  Advertising works.  It's why candidates pay for it. It's why corporations pay for it.  And it's proven (not suspected, PROVEN) that it's even more effective when it its targeted, and appears on your social media from "friends".  Given the thin margins Trump won certain states by...saying "it had no effect", like that's some sort of bona fide conclusion, is akin to an ostrich burying it's head in the sand.  Except these ostriches KNOW they're lying when they say it.  Conservatives poo poo it NOW simply because it makes the guy they voted for look illegitimate.  Tough shit.

We all know what conservatives would have said if the shoe was on the other foot.  But since "they" won, it's suddenly "Oh, NO WAY".   

And then they will grab their pearls and play the victim when you call them out on their lies.  Just you watch!

Edit: Heh heh....CALLED IT!

[sandman]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

[pilferk]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1XnoVGAIPE

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

That "woman" who removed Joe's hands from her waist?

HIS FUCKING WIFE!!!!

I mean, you have to try real hard to turn THAT into something "creepy".  He gives her a big hug (which she seems totally into) and then he puts his hands just above her waist as he says something to her (I love you?), and she moves them...holding them for a spit second before she WALKS OFF STAGE?  Maybe she was hot? Maybe it was uncomfortable, physically? Maybe she was just trying to keep the show going quickly so she was in a hurry to get off and let him speak? But inappropriate?  HIS FUCKING WIFE???!!!! OMG I CAN'T EVEN!!!!

THIS...THIS is how you know someone is buried in Fox News arse.  Because that's the only way you perpetuate this story: If you're being force fed it by conservative media......or it popped up on your social media feed with the "conservative media" spin attached to it (proving, of course, that this stuff actually works and influences opinions).

LOL...HIS FUCKING WIFE!! 

[pilferk]

It takes 2 to tango as they say. 

Just going to riff on this a bit....and this isn't really directed to the good Senator,but just a riff.

If that's the case, then, along with these bills (esp the Alabama bill) should be a "Mens responsibilities bill".

It should include:
Child support retroactive to the date of conception, and mandated until the child's 25th birthday.

AND since a woman working while pregnant COULD lead to miscarriage (or harm to the zygote):

The man should provide full medical coverage to the mother from conception until the child's first birthday (by which point any complications from the birth should have been resolved...up to, and including, hernia repair).

The man should provide full monetary support to the mother, including paying for room and board, as well as 66% of any remaining work proceeds (33% for the mother, 33% for the child) until such point that the mother is deemed fit to return to work after child birth, and the child is released from medical care. This is in addition to child support.  If the man can not provide the equivalent of minimum wage to the mother and child (when considering room and board and % of wages), he should be incarcarated and forced to work for the state, until he can provide such support and has covered all arearages.

Mandated Child support also continues to accumulates, and would be paid out of the mans remaining 33% (he would be forced to cover arearage after the fact if he can not cover the entire amount out of his remaining proceeds), assuming he is not incarcarated.  If he is incarcerated, arrearage still continues to accrue and will be garnished from future wages, but release does not occur until all monies owed are current.

The man should be required, by law, to establish, from the moment of conception, life insurance policies on both the mother and child of not less than 500k, each (to ensure coverage and care for the child, in the case of the mothers The death or care for the mother, in case of the child's death).

The man should be required, by law, to live no further than 20 miles from the mother and child during the gestation period. He is legally required to respond to any needs she has in relation to her pregnancy (including 2 AM cravings).

The man should be required, by law, to provide any and all transport (directly or indirectly) to medical appointments or other child preparation needs, at the dates and times of the mothers choosing.

Any violation of this policy should result in incarceration and forced work for the state....during which arearages will accrue based on type of work they are able to perform while in custody.  The man will remain incarcerated until arearages are paid, or til they expire.

Fair, right?

Of course not.  That's barbaric and almost slavery.

Just like forcing a woman to carry a child for 9 months, and give birth is barbaric and akin to slavery.  Potentially 19 years or so of it, depending.  And what a positive, rewarding, healthy upbringing that is likely to be for a child.

One other point:

"Gun laws don't stop violence because criminals will still find and get guns".

I disagree (we saw this with the Clinton Assault Rifle ban), but it's the Republican stance.

Well, we know for a fact abortion laws don't stop abortions.  They just make them illegal, unsafe, or force women to travel far from home to get them.   And yet....many Republicans, who scream about the 2A (which I am a supporter of) and then preach there should be abortion laws.

The fact is:  There are people in socio-economic situations, or living situation, which do not make having a child a good idea.  And sometimes...birth control fails.  I have a living, breathing, walking, talking example of it living in my house!  We conceived my youngest while my wife was ON THE PILL!  We were talking about having another, but had not yet made a final decision, and she was still taking her pills. In fact, she was taking her pills for the first month she was pregnant with her!  We were lucky in that...we were totally set up for, and happy to welcome, a 3rd kid.

I know LOTS of people who would not be in that situation.  Rape, Incest, and life of the mother are great exceptions, but...what about "oh shit the condom broke"? Or..."fuck my pills didn't work"?  or "Shit my IUD has a tear in it"? 

Far more often than the conservatives would have you believe, THOSE are the reasons people get an abortion.  not because they were acting irresponsibly (and yes, those happen too).

AND....how about we acknowledge that birth control should be affordable and available to EVERYONE.  Humans are sexual creatures.  We just are, by and large.  And to tie birth control to economic means just CREATES a climate where people are going to run into issues.  And the Republican stance of "Well, poor people shouldn't fuck" is just assinine.  Repubs don't want anything other than abstinance preached in high school, don't want wide availability of birth control (the real reason they war on Planned Parenthood), and don't want abortions.  Those three things are just not compatible stances when you label yourself "pro-life".

Riff/Rant over.

[tim_m]

Seems like you are defending biden’s disgusting actions by bringing up other’s disgusting words.

Isn't that how Trump got elected? Pointing out how others were "crooked" and asking for help from foreign nations....

Deflections....

 




/jarmo

no, that's not at all how he got elected. for one, the world already knew how crooked Hillary was (but you have to respect Trump's branding and messaging - it's been 2.5 years and you still recall his messaging). voters do not like her. many people that voted for her even said they were picking the lesser of two evils.

secondly, as much as it hurts you and all the other libs, cause you were all played like a fiddle by the lying dems and media, and you all bought into the crazy conspiracy theory, there was NO COLLUISION.  

and finally, whatever the Russians did prior to the election, hopefully Trump does more about it than Obama did, which will be easy since Obama did nothing. it is an outrage that they were allowed to meddle in our election with no one in power doing anything about it.

but the impact Russia had was minimal at best. BS stories on FB??? come on, the far right wing media already has that covered, right? so nothing new there.

move on, my friend. Hillary has blamed several different things, except the ones that are actually true - she was a shitty candidate, and people are sick of politics as usual in the US.

Every time you speak all i see is i'm lying over and over again.

I don't always understand your point. but I'm guessing you are accusing me of lying?

sorry you feel that way. I thought we all disagreed in here, but I kinda felt everyone was on the same page as far as bringing our own honest opinions to the table. why would anyone lie in this thread?

I've been insulted plenty in this thread going back 2 years now, but I don't think anyone has ever called me a liar. i'll add it to the list!

You outright lied about about Obama and the Russian interference. It's been fact checked multiple times in this thread but you still cling to your narrative.