Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

I'm not going to re-litigate the 2016 election here with you, what would be the point of that? 

Trump did not collude with Russia. If anyone was going to find it, would be Mueller and his team of mostly democrats.  Moving forward, if they want to stay relevant, Dems need to focus on their own agenda instead of starring as Capt Ahab hunting for their big white whale if they want to show they can actually govern.

But hate is alive and well when it comes to the left and Trump. What was it they kept saying, Love Trumps Hate? 

I'm certainly not expecting relitigation of the 2016 election.

I'm pointing out that voters (you included) voted for Trump at least partially based on objections to Hillary's shady business practices, the Clinton Foundation activities,  and her emails.  Specifically that voters thought it would be appropriate to "Lock her up" because the JD saw improper practices that just didn't rise to the level of prosecution.  The JD viewed those actions as stupid, naive, and a bit negligent....but not criminal in intent or purpose.  Sounds oddly familiar re: Trump and obstruction (at least the con side of the obstruction argument which is best case scenario for Repubs).

And you (the global you...as in Trump voters) now find you've voted for a candidate who has done as bad, or worse (if we're talking about the consequences/outcomes), in pursuit of...and while performing the duties of...the presidency.

That's it.  Though I have to wonder how those voters HONESTLY feel about it....and have no doubt I wouldn't get an honest answer from most of them.

And I agree: He did not collude.  Collusion requires intent.  He was a moron, who did stupid, naive things that coincidentally made things easier for our enemies, the Russians, to attack our elections. And he lied about those stupid, moronic, naive, ill advised things and so did those around him.  Yes, that's better than intentionally colluding. Absolutely!

I mean, there's zero debate on this, really. He, and his campaign, did stupid shit....some of it unexplainable.  Look at the facts in evidence.  Do we need to go over all that stupid shit as a refresher? Asking Russia to hack Hillary? Taking meetings with a foreign power to get dirt on an opponent? Asking Jared to open a back channel communications method (now, apparently, to talk Trump Tower Moscow stuff) to Russia? Surrounding yourself with people, in high positions, who have connections to Russia or other bad actor foreign powers?  CONTINUING to negotiate with Russia on a Trump Tower Moscow deal well into the campaign?  And a whole lot more.  We know, NOW, there was no collusive intent behind those actions....and yet he, and his campaign, took every opportunity to lie about them.  It seems pretty obvious they did this because a) those actions would make them look like morons and b) they hinted at impropriety, even though there wasn't any. Which makes them better, but not BETTER, if you take my meaning.  They still paint the president, and those that surround him, in an AWFUL light.

That's a special kind of stupid (and a special kind of terrible at your job).  It's just not nefarious.

And we are still sort of on the fence (literally) when it comes to obstruction of justice.

And I agree: Dems should focus on their agenda: Healthcare, lowering drug prices, infrastructure, stronger background checks, etc.  But they can walk and chew gum at the same time.  They need to also do their oversight duty, as conveyed by the Constitution.  But as Pelosi said back in January.....Impeachment is pretty much off the table.  They should engage in oversight precisely as the Repubs did in the Obama administration. No?

I certainly understand your need to discount opposing opinions as being fueled by some irrational hatred, and not principled objections.  It makes it a lot easier for conservatives vs confronting this presidents very obvious shortcomings.  Identity politics at it's finest.

PS: It was nice to hear a riff on the 13 Angry Democrats theme/talking point one more time. This report sort of shits all over that argument, doesn't it?  And all the conservative arguments about a compromised justice department, about how one sided and unfair the investigation, and all the other bullshit the conservative media floated over and over again.  Thanks for the chuckle on that one.

[sandman]

As much as I disagree with Trump policies, think he's a terrible president, not to mention human being, I'm glad he didn't collude. If he was guilty, that would mean the president of the United States is a traitor. That would be a sad day for America and our democracy. Nobody should be happy if that were the case. As for obstruction, I'm satisfied given Rosenstein came to the same conclusion as Barr. I trust him, he's one the few Republicans with a pair who the rule of law and country over party means something too. It's important to note what the summary said though, it said they lacked sufficient evidence for obstruction and stopped short of exonerating him. So I don't think it completely exonerates Trump there. Which I take to mean there could be more evidence that shows there was. So I guess now the ball is in the SDNYS court.

I agree with these points. glad there are still reasonable people out there. it would have been horrible if there was collusion.

I wish all americans felt the same way. Rachel Maddow was crying because her president did not commit treason. that is what our media has become.

[pilferk]

Can someone please point me to videos of this Rachel crying stuff? I dont watch cable news after 7 pm, on any channel, except on election nights so......

I have googled, and found lots of conservative articles on it, and reports of videoes....and none of the videos in the articles seem to actually show her crying.

For example:
https://davidharrisjr.com/politics/rachel-maddow-in-tears-after-no-indictment-of-trump-video/

I've found her denials (both on twitter and in an interview), but...well, I want to see it for myself.

Its funny, because in both the videos in the article, above, she seems downright jovial. I think she may have been excessively recreating on that trout stream.


Unrelated Note: whoever is running the lighting in that studio in TN sucks. At 1:40 and 2:20 they glare the green screen (over her left shoulder....on the right as you are watching). When working with greens, you have to hood and indirect! Should have asked the person who lights the weather!!

Her makeup person...or she....did a shit job, too.  You can see light reflection under her eyes over and over. More foundation and dont use shimmery powder!!

The things you notice when you are the dad of an actress...

[sandman]

I feel like i’m dreaming....

- Mueller Report drops
- Trump totally exonerated
- Avenatti arrested for committing the *same federal crimes* he was accusing Trump of committing
- and then Avenatti's co-conspirator is a CNN contributor & Jussie Smollett’s lawyer?!?!

Damn this is fun.

[tim_m]

Totally on collusion, not the obstruction. The summation released even said as much. Having insufficient evidence to prove guilt or innocence isn't exoneration. Barr and Rosenstein simply agreed the evidence didn't prove guilt or disprove. Hopefully at some point something comes to light to prove one way or the other. Just for the record I'm hoping he's innocent. Nobody should be rooting for a sitting president to be guilty of any impeccable crime.

[pilferk]

Not that I ever really understood why it was a topic of conversation in this thread, but, for those that were interested in the case:

All charges against Jussie Smollett have been dropped.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Jussie-Smollett-Case-Empire-Actor-Makes-Unexpected-Court-Appearance-507669861.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_CTBrand&fbclid=IwAR1b-e-8QkotecfgiSUcjDx79F3jSFkG3jjVBRFAgdMETkaoSJCN0gLGhMc

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Not that I ever really understood why it was a topic of conversation in this thread, but, for those that were interested in the case:

All charges against Jussie Smollett have been dropped.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Jussie-Smollett-Case-Empire-Actor-Makes-Unexpected-Court-Appearance-507669861.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_CTBrand&fbclid=IwAR1b-e-8QkotecfgiSUcjDx79F3jSFkG3jjVBRFAgdMETkaoSJCN0gLGhMc

Mayor Rahm Emmanuel and the Chicago police chief were livid over this turn of events and rightly so.

Amazing what you can get away with when  you have Michelle Obama make a phone call, pay 10 grand and do some community service.

This isn't fair to those who were victims of real hate crimes.

[sandman]

Not that I ever really understood why it was a topic of conversation in this thread, but, for those that were interested in the case:

All charges against Jussie Smollett have been dropped.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Jussie-Smollett-Case-Empire-Actor-Makes-Unexpected-Court-Appearance-507669861.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_CTBrand&fbclid=IwAR1b-e-8QkotecfgiSUcjDx79F3jSFkG3jjVBRFAgdMETkaoSJCN0gLGhMc

Mayor Rahm Emmanuel and the Chicago police chief were livid over this turn of events and rightly so.

Amazing what you can get away with when  you have Michelle Obama make a phone call, pay 10 grand and do some community service.

This isn't fair to those who were victims of real hate crimes.

Soros donated over $400K to a super pac supporting foxx

U nailed it, and committing a fake hate crime is so disgusting and is a kick in the fuckin face to victims of true hate crimes. It also will lead to people having doubts when someone claims to have been a victim of a hate crime.

Not to mention the police resources that were being wasted on a fake crime, while true crimes were occurring all over the city.

David Axelrod also nailed it:

“Unless some better explanation surfaces, here’s the lesson of this weird turn in the Smollett case:
You can contrive a hate crime, make it a national news, get caught and-if you are a well-connected celebrity-get off for $10K and have your record expunged and files sealed.

No.  Sorry, folks.  The brief statement offered by the prosecutor didn’t dispute the basic facts in the original charge.  That’s why he was compelled to sacrifice his bond.  They simply said that in light of his voluntary work in the community, this was a just resolution.

Hate crimes are loathsome.  Faking them is insidious and shouldn’t be excused.  Despite Smollett’s denials, nothing the prosecutor said in dismissing the case supports that. If prosecutors have evidence that contradicts the indictment THEY brought, they should share it today.“

[pilferk]

Good job, Mr. President.  You deserve a bunch of credit for this.  Betsy Devos' decision was heartless and cruel. Forcing her to reverse it (and hopefully funding the Special Olympics fully) is the right thing to do!

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/436351-trump-the-special-olympics-will-be-funded

[LunsJail]

Good job, Mr. President.  You deserve a bunch of credit for this.  Betsy Devos' decision was heartless and cruel. Forcing her to reverse it (and hopefully funding the Special Olympics fully) is the right thing to do!

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/436351-trump-the-special-olympics-will-be-funded

I disagree on the good job.  There would be no need to reverse the decision if he hadn't appointed shitty heartless people to important positions in the first place.

[tim_m]

I don't think Congress would've approved the cuts anyway but they definitely shouldn't have ever been provided to begin with.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Betsy Devos was Trump's  worst cabinet pick. ( along with Sessions)

You know you made a bad choice when the President reverses your decision the next day.

Still dont understand why someone who never worked in education got the nod.

[pilferk]

Good job, Mr. President.  You deserve a bunch of credit for this.  Betsy Devos' decision was heartless and cruel. Forcing her to reverse it (and hopefully funding the Special Olympics fully) is the right thing to do!

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/436351-trump-the-special-olympics-will-be-funded

I disagree on the good job.  There would be no need to reverse the decision if he hadn't appointed shitty heartless people to important positions in the first place.

You're not wrong.

But at least he stepped up and reversed course.

She's terrible.  Supremely terrible.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Good job, Mr. President.  You deserve a bunch of credit for this.  Betsy Devos' decision was heartless and cruel. Forcing her to reverse it (and hopefully funding the Special Olympics fully) is the right thing to do!

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/436351-trump-the-special-olympics-will-be-funded

I disagree on the good job.  There would be no need to reverse the decision if he hadn't appointed shitty heartless people to important positions in the first place.

You're not wrong.

But at least he stepped up and reversed course.

She's terrible.  Supremely terrible.

Reasonable and honest answer on him reversing course - even if 99% of him is a trainwreck, acknowledging the 1% is hard but still impossible for some.

[tim_m]

Let's not pat him on the back too much for this. The president is the one that creates the budget proposal to send to Congress to create the budget for the year. He proposed these cuts and only backtracked after the outrage over it.

[LunsJail]

Let's not pat him on the back too much for this. The president is the one that creates the budget proposal to send to Congress to create the budget for the year. He proposed these cuts and only backtracked after the outrage over it.

Yes, I read that as well after my original post about it.  So it was two steps back to take two steps forward, meanwhile Devos looks like a bitch and Trump gets some small iota of credit for the reversal.  Complete waste of time.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Yet if he did nothing and later commented that he didn't agree with it but let his people persuade him, he would've been skewered for not being in charge or leading.

Whatever it is, the cuts were reversed which is a good thing - move on and focus on his more obvious insanity

[tim_m]

Yet if he did nothing and later commented that he didn't agree with it but let his people persuade him, he would've been skewered for not being in charge or leading.

Whatever it is, the cuts were reversed which is a good thing - move on and focus on his more obvious insanity

She's a terrible person. A billionaire who knows nothing about public education or education in general. Ask anyone from Michigan about her and you'll get an ear full.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Some good news to cut thru the negativity

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/04/weekly-jobless-claims.html

US weekly jobless claims drop to the lowest level since 1969

  - The number of Americans filing applications for unemployment benefits dropped to a more than 49-year low last week.
  - The data pointed to sustained labor market strength despite slowing economic growth.
  - Initial claims for state unemployment benefits dropped to 202,000 for the week ended March 30, the lowest level since early December 1969, the Labor Department said.

[sandman]

Candace Owens just OWNED the dems. holy shit!!  a bunch of dems make false accusations and don't even let her respond. she finally gets a chance to talk and puts ted lieu and Nadler in their place.

But the dems know that most news outlets will report this in a way to make her look bad. and they followers will slurp it up big time because they just want to hear that all trump supporters are bad and evil. no research will be done - just keep feeding the hate and the division and the sheep will follow. easy business, and the payoffs are huge.