Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[PermissionToLand]

Clearly things r not obvious to many in this thread, at least most of the liberals. u have your cohorts advocating violence and consistenty insulting fellow posters. TDS is real.

Advocating violence? You mean like the second Trump supporter now who was planning to assassinate/mass murder Democrats?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coast-guard-officer-accused-of-planning-terror-attack-amassed-an-arsenal-11550789657

The only derangement is in those still defending the man whose rhetoric instigated these people. You people need an intervention.

[sandman]

Clearly things r not obvious to many in this thread, at least most of the liberals. u have your cohorts advocating violence and consistenty insulting fellow posters. TDS is real.

Advocating violence? You mean like the second Trump supporter now who was planning to assassinate/mass murder Democrats?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coast-guard-officer-accused-of-planning-terror-attack-amassed-an-arsenal-11550789657

The only derangement is in those still defending the man whose rhetoric instigated these people. You people need an intervention.

No, i was talking about your buddies in this thread. We can post stories all day of lunatics on both sides. Just don’t expect to come here and see it.

Also, if you wear maga gear in public, good chance there will be an altercation.

So again....clearly....lunatics on both sides.

[sandman]

I guess we CANNOT agree their are nutjobs on BOTH sides?

Obviously stupidity doesn't discriminate. It's present everywhere.


Speaking of, doesn't it seem to you that what would've been labeled as a nut job, or just crazy talk that no one paid attention to, a few decades ago now is considered normal? Nobody seems to mind if shit is made up.


So sandman, let me ask you this: What's the real national emergency in your opinion right now in the USA? Is it building that wall? Is it the opioid crisis? Jobs? Infrastructure? Trade?




/jarmo

Clearly things r not obvious to many in this thread, at least most of the liberals. u have your cohorts advocating violence and consistenty insulting fellow posters. TDS is real.

To answer your question, you would have to define “national emergency”. That is just a label that can be interpreted a number of ways. In reality, it is a tool available to presidents to avoid the normal the legislative process. Its not how things should work, but many recent presidents have taken advantage of this tool.

Obama declared several national emergencies, most of which involed our interests in other countries like libya, sudan, and venezuela. And of course, those interests r 100% ethical and appropriate.   

Did these get declared after Congress rejected the initial action?
I'm not challenging this - it's a valid point, I don't remember how it played out...was curious
Seems besides the fact that anything Trump does or tries - will be met by contempt...that the thing that has a lot of people fired up about the declaration is that it went to Congress & was mostly rejected and then this is viewed as a middle finger to the other branch of government.

Again, you are correct - it's an option available to the President and perhaps a constitutional amendment will come out of this because this is f&cked

I do not believe obama declared any national emergencies after congress rejected something.

He used executive orders in those situations.

Different tool, but essentially the same.

[tim_m]

Clearly that guy shouldn't have been punched, there's no excuse for it, but let's be realistic. Can you equate the two? A guy who gets in a physical altercation vs people planning mass murder on the right. There are no liberals sending bombs, shooting up schools and synagogues. Nobody planning to mass murder Trump supporters like there is with Trump supporters planning to kill those who oppose him.

[tim_m]

The problem people are having with Trump's fake national emergency is why he did it. If you go through the list of others you'll see they are all meant to protect Americans in foreign nations of something like that. Trump did this cause he couldn't get money from either side for the wall through the legislative process to steal money from other programs that was needed for important things, such as upgrading and repairing military barracks. He did it to circumvent Congress cause he couldn't get his way. Which may be unconditional. The Constitution states only Congress has the power to impose taxation on the people and decide how that money is sent. Regardless of the outcome Trump will be gone and possibly dead before the wall is certainly completed and possibly even started. There are 1000 residents that can fight this in court living on the border. The government will likely ultimately get the land but if the two sides can't agree on compensation it goes to court and that can take years depending on if the people can afford good lawyers. The last time the government used eminent domain to build a barrier was in 2006 when Bush was president. Currently there is still 70-80 cases in the courts from that over a decade later. Who's to say whoever succeeds Trump as president won't stop this immediately? The likelihood the wall ever even gets built is slim and none.

[jarmo]

Obama declared several national emergencies, most of which involed our interests in other countries like libya, sudan, and venezuela. And of course, those interests r 100% ethical and appropriate.   

Correct me if I'm wrong, but until recently, that was the way that "weapon" was used. To put pressure on hostile nations and stop them from doing business with the USA. It wasn't a tool to be used because Congress didn't want to do things your way....

As for the US’s biggest problems. Tough to say. There are several and many are interrelated. I’d say corrupt government is high on the list. If cities could manage themselves effectively, schools would improve, opportunities would be created, and people’s lives would improve.

Less corruption is always good.

I believe that's what they are currently investigating regarding the leader himself.....

We have over 300 million people and depending on each person’s experience, u will get different opinions. For example, all the people who have had loved ones murdered by illegal immigrants would probably say illegal immigration is the biggest problem.

Another obvious one is human trafficking. The thought of little girls being kidnapped and forced into the sex trade, is truly horrifying.

Another one is the US’s involvement in unnecessary wars.

Yes, obviously everyone's got their own take on things. But I was mostly interested in yours since you post here and those others don't...

To play along, those who had loved ones die from drugs would say that's the emergency. That number is probably higher than the one for deaths caused by illegal immigrants? On top of that you got mass shootings, domestic terrorism....







/jarmo

[sandman]

No matter what your political beliefs, i’ll assume everyone agrees that:

“we simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

[COMAMOTIVE]

No matter what your political beliefs, i’ll assume everyone agrees that:

“we simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

& Not just everyone here - most of the Democrats who've had or hold power.

[jarmo]

No matter what your political beliefs, i’ll assume everyone agrees that:

“we simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

Aren't less and less people "pouring in"?


Let me ask you this then, what's your opinion on the Berlin Wall? Were you sad to see it go? Did you disagree with Reagan wanting it torn down?





/jarmo

[tim_m]

No matter what your political beliefs, i’ll assume everyone agrees that:

“we simply cannot allow people to pour into the U.S., undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

Yep it's been declining for decades.

Aren't less and less people "pouring in"?


Let me ask you this then, what's your opinion on the Berlin Wall? Were you sad to see it go? Did you disagree with Reagan wanting it torn down?





/jarmo

[allwaystired]

Any plans to sort out the gun culture in America? Is that not a 'national emergency'? To other countries it sure looks like it.....how about the climate? That's a worldwide emergency, yet STILL people in positions of power deny it's happening because of their own personal interests.

[jarmo]

.how about the climate? That's a worldwide emergency, yet STILL people in positions of power deny it's happening because of their own personal interests.

The opposition at least has an idea.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a26238883/green-new-deal-explainer-ocasio-cortez-democrats/

The ones in the White House and their supporters have none.... Just like the discussion about gun control is met with "They want to take away your guns!", this one's met with "no more steak for you!".... That's the level some like to keep the discussions about problems and possible solutions to them...






/jarmo

[allwaystired]

.how about the climate? That's a worldwide emergency, yet STILL people in positions of power deny it's happening because of their own personal interests.

The opposition at least has an idea.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a26238883/green-new-deal-explainer-ocasio-cortez-democrats/

The ones in the White House and their supporters have none.... Just like the discussion about gun control is met with "They want to take away your guns!", this one's met with "no more steak for you!".... That's the level some like to keep the discussions about problems and possible solutions to them...






/jarmo

...or they just prefer to move the argument away by creating a dialogue about "whether climate change is real" which shouldn't even be a dialogue. No one should even be discussing whether climate change is happening anymore, they should be moving towards solutions. But if you create a dialogue, you can focus on that rather than solutions. Same with the old "guns don't kill people, people do" argument.

Hopefully though we're hitting saturation point with stupidity, ignorance and the ignoring of facts and evidence. After that saturation point must surely come a move towards intelligence, solutions, positive thinking and change. Before we end up destroying too much of the planet. Here's hoping anyway

[Dr. Blutarsky]

One thing is for sure, AOC's Green new deal isnt the fix for the climate.

[jarmo]

One thing is for sure, AOC's Green new deal isnt the fix for the climate.

Would moving to greener technologies and investing in them make things worse?




/jarmo

[allwaystired]

One thing is for sure, AOC's Green new deal isnt the fix for the climate.

It's surely better than the current President's plan, which is to deny it is even happening and do the opposite of anything positive!

[tim_m]

I love how threatened the right is by her. Someone with new ideas and solutions. How dare she! At least she is trying, which is more then I can say for most everyone in Congress and the Senate.

[tim_m]

So much for the great deal maker lol.

[pilferk]

One thing is for sure, AOC's Green new deal isnt the fix for the climate.

Hey..since you have obviously read it (and not just the faq put up by an overzealous staffer that aoc has already said was not representative of the final proposed bill)....maybe you can explain exactly what you dislike about it, and why?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

One thing is for sure, AOC's Green new deal isnt the fix for the climate.

Would moving to greener technologies and investing in them make things worse?




/jarmo

It is how you move to greener tech and investing in them that is important. Of course we need to take steps for a cleaner environment and renewable energy.  But what was proposed in the Green New Deal is not practical to implement nor its price tag.   

And any meaningful & practical steps regarding taking action on climate change needs to involve India and China.  They would need to be held to the same standard for any real results.