Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[damnthehaters]

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

Same.

And it's been that way since November-ish.

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Stock market- just fine
Tax Cuts- good
Economy- good
Supreme Court Appointee- good
TPP move - good
Diplomacy/confronting China- good
NATO- good
Ending Iran Deal- good
Prison reform- good
Middle class wage rise
Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing
Increasing minority jobs
US now largest producer of crude oil. 

And more...

[pilferk]

For decades, Russia has NOT been complying with this treaty.

Yes, and we had a mechanism for recourse, sanctions, and an ability to put international pressure on them for doing so.

Negating the treaty is like saying "Well, people commit murder anyway....so we should just abolish the laws governing murder".  It's "The Purge" logic.

[pilferk]

And maybe you should be more worried about what's going on between Trump and all the intelligence advisors and the governor should resign. When the president says he disagrees with his intelligence advisors 100% that should scare everyone, but keep your head in the sand so you can't hear or see what's going on while laughing at a governor that I see nobody defending..

Don't feed the troll.

I mean, you can't take seriously anyone's "moral outrage", on this topic, after still voting for Trump post "Grab them by the pussy"...especially after ascribing an opinion to a party which doesn't, largely, exist.  I've heard more prominent Dems condemn the governors actions, in the past few days, than I've heard Repubs (prominent or otherwise) condemn (and not makes excuses for) those boys actions.

You can condemn both...the disrespectful group of hooligans AND a governor who did something racially insensitive in his past (and, full disclosure: I, too, dressed as MJ back in the 80's...but without the blackface).

The difference is: The Repubs would have KNOWINGLY voted for him, as they did for Trump and Moore and others who have done as bad, or worse. Because "morally represensible" is better than "Democrat" in the rah rah dittohead world.  Dems aren't MUCH better when it comes to "sport-politics", but I haven't seen them decend to that level, yet.  At this point, for any Repub to question a dem candidate or elected official, now, rings hollow.  They no longer have any claim to any moral high road. They no longer have the right to cry hypocrisy. The moral majority is dead.

[pilferk]

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

November? It was.  It was a huge win for the Democrats.  And if you believe anything else?  You should stop watching Fox News.

+40 seats in the House?  24 - 10 in the Senate races? A complete drubbing in total number of dem votes cast, nationwide. That's a win for sure!  

Given what was up for election in November, in terms of Senate Seats (Dems held 26 of the 34 seats up for grabs).....it broke pretty damn well for the Dems.  They NEARLY duplicated, in the mid terms, the results from a historic (considered a huge win) 2012 PRESIDENTIAL election, where their presidential candidate won handily.  They flipped Trump states, and even in the seats where Repubs won, their margins drastically shrunk vs Trump margins.

The. Dems. Competed. IN TEXAS?!

Yeah, it was a win.

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

I'd argue that GnR, themselves, would disagree.  Axl sure would. 

The fact you ACTUALLY see an analogy here is a big part of the problem.  Politics is not entertainment.  Politicians, and their actions, being covered is not the same as paparazzi covering a rock band.

In terms of letting the media fool you: Pot, kettle, black.

Stop watching Fox News.

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.

Stop watching Fox News. Stop letting the President's twitter feed influence your perception of the opposition party.

Democrats aren't as far left as you think. Nor are they, largely, espousing extremist ideas. If you think they are, go ahead and provide examples. I'll await your list of Fox News talking points.

  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Nobody is crying. We think he's a terrible president and a shitty human being.  And we have ample evidence of it. I know how inconvenient that is....

Republicans are not in office...not entirely.  Did you miss November?

And I know.  It must be hard (impossible) to defend most of this president's rhetoric, actions, and policies.  I wouldn't come here, either, if I were a hardcore Trump supporter.  Not many wins to "crow" about, right now....it's OK.  We get it. It's uncomfortable.

[pilferk]

Stock market- just fine
Tax Cuts- good
Economy- good
Supreme Court Appointee- good
TPP move - good
Diplomacy/confronting China- good
NATO- good
Ending Iran Deal- good
Prison reform- good
Middle class wage rise
Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing
Increasing minority jobs
US now largest producer of crude oil. 

And more...

So much propaganda and misinformation in there...it's so obvious where you get your news from.

Stop. Watching. Fox. News.

Stock market: Volatile for the last quarter or so.  Not good for investment, short term or long term, and especially not good for new business creation. The market was down (about 5%) in 2018...and is basically flat 2018 to 2019 right now.  So, after the "best January in history"...we're right back where we were a year ago.  

And, I've said it once and I'll say it again:  Be careful about assigning credit to a President (or taking credit if you are that President) for market success as a win.  Because if you want to do that....you have to take your lumps when it crashes or gets volatile.  

Tax cuts: Unpopular and, as people are actually DOING their taxes right now, getting less popular.  Not particularly effective, either, since companies (who got the lions share of the cuts) are NOT (mostly) using the money for hiring, R&D, or anything else that stimulates the economy.  They're using that money for stock buy backs.  Which helps prop up the market, but not much else.

Personal anecdote: I just did my taxes.  I have to apologize to sandman, at some point.  I said these cuts would lead me to pay about 1k more a year in taxes.  I was wrong.  It was actually $1148 more.

Economy: It's doing OK.  Not great, not bad.  But there are some leading indicators out there that are starting to show we might be headed for a recession.  Nothing to worry about YET, but some things to keep an eye on.  The trade wars, the shut down, inflation...all are starting to take a toll.  Lets see Q4 numbers this year....I expect things will slow down to the mid 2's again, but we'll see.  I'd also offer that we are JUST starting to see the Trump economy....up til now, we were still riding the Obama wave.  Economists say that it's 12 to 18 months before a new administration really exerts their influence on the economy.

Also note: Those rosy job numbers we just saw?  Keep in mind, Decembers stellar number was rounded down by almost 30% (90k jobs DOWN)...and fell to right around expectations. We'll see what kinds of revisions those January numbers see in February.  It's would be an odd trend to see rather large adjustments in those job numbers.....

SC: Depends on how you view the courts, no?  Good for hardcore Republicans, I guess.  But I'm sure you'll see how opposing political viewpoints would disagree.  

In addition, you citing this pretty much speaks to the untruth in your opening sentence.  You're  a hardcore Trump supporter (and Republican).  You're not voting for Dems, regardless.....because if you were, you'd see the SC appointments as a mixed bag, at best. You've firmly emblazoned the "R" to your jersey and are playing armchair "sport-politics" firmly from your seat of Trump/Repub fandom. RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH...YAY TEAM!

Another note: You're crowing now, but the Senate changes to SC approval processes is a short term win, and (potentially) a long term loss.

TPP move: I'm not sure what "move" you're talking about?  We didn't sign it.  The Dems didn't like the final product, either.  I fail to see how that's a "Trump" win?  It wouldn't have been signed either way.  Even Hillary disavowed it during her campaign. To assign this to Trump is misleading (and, quite frankly, the typical Fox News list).

Diplomacy/confronting China: Yeah, thats why the career diplomats are running from the state department to the private sector as fast as they can. He literally CAN NOT FILL all the vacancies, they are leaving so quickly.   His "diplomacy" has consisted of distancing us from our traditional allies (and pissing them off) and cozying up to the dictators and authoritarians.  

For me, this is the biggest indicator that Repubs have abandoned principal for power...and that Repubs have abandoned their traditional party platform.  If Obama had taken similar actions, there would have been (more) calls for his lynching.  Previous iterations of the Republican Party would be up in arms over these types of geopolitical moves.  And yet.....crickets.  Because they'd rather fawn over "their guy" (and not face his twitter wrath) than speak truth to power.  I pine for the days of the Reagan era Republican party.

NATO- good: It's good to alienate (and, in private, speculate that the US should abandon the organization) our allies?  He's treated Nato like shit, consistently lied about how it's funded, and misrepresented how it functions.  Even members of his own party are taking the piss out of him for the way he handles NATO.  And you think it's good?  Yeesh.

Ending Iran Deal:  Why?  Explain why this was a bad deal? Be specific.  I mean, Iran is still in compliance (so say Trumps own national security folks).  I mean, it wasn't the PERFECT deal...mostly because of some minor issues and duration deals.  But I've asked over and over again for people, in this discussion, to explain WHY it was a bad deal and we should have terminated it.  And other than the "Because Trump says so", I get crickets.  So...have at it. Explain why it was bad and why this is such a big win for trump.

Prison reform- good: Agreed.  It (along with bringing home those NK hostages) are Trumps biggest (and, for my money, only) wins.

Middle class wage rise: WAGES are CREEPING up (and barely outpacing inflation).  Income is raising by more. There's a big difference. And wages have only JUST started to creep in late 2018.  Again, that might be because of Trump and economic pressure on employers as the labor market tightens....but this one is a TBD.  We'll see where wages are in June '19.  

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/middle-class-income-highest-on-record-fact-check

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/10/04/if-real-wages-arent-rising-how-is-household-income-going-up/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/america-wage-growth-is-getting-wiped-out-entirely-by-inflation/?utm_term=.eddeef1ce1a1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-workers-see-fastest-wage-increase-in-a-decade/2018/10/31/3c2e7894-dc85-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?utm_term=.0ec158561772

Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing:

1) "Most Presidents" - Clinton and Bush.  Two presidents.  Of 45. Obama did not...he simply had Bush's "delay" expire during his presidency.  So lets be clear: Not "most" (this is the kind of Trumpian hyperbole that causes problems).  A couple.  And all 3 presidents who had a resolution in front of them to do it (Clinton, Bush, Obama) saw ample reason (and national security experts and diplomats all agree on this) to suspend moving the embassy.  So, I don't think, in the face of advice from the experts, NOT moving the embassy is a "loss".

2) This is hardly a "win", or an accomplishment.  It's a stupid, needless, empty symbol that really accomplishes nothing...and is in stark contrast to what the expert advice is on the subject.  It's just a "thing" Trump has done.  Why do you think this is a win or an accomplishment?  What does this get our country, other than pissing off the Palestinians and much of the Arab world?  

Increasing minority jobs: Nope.  Trump has had zero to do with this.  In fact, the pace of growth for minority jobs has slowed, considerably, since Obama left office....and Trump has enacted zero policies that would have any effect on minority employment rates.  This is a prime example of Trump taking credit for things he has absolutely ZERO involvement in.  

US now largest producer of crude oil:  Also, not because of Trump.  The Oil and Gas industry, itself, says this.  They say it's largely due to technology advances that led to cost drops in being able to get at the oil that's here.  It's not because Trump opened up new drilling opportunities, or enacted new policies.  This isn't a Trump win (or an Obama win, to be clear)...see above re: minority jobs growth.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/factchecking-trumps-energy-boasts/

Not everything good that's happened in the US "belongs" to Trump.  Just like not everything "bad" that happens is because of Trump.

[allwaystired]

Trumps wall costs less than the Obama care website!

GREAT comparison. 

One is a functionally useless penis extension.

The other helped in halving the number of uninsured people in our country (from 18% to 9% as of this year).

AND, on top of all that, Obamacare was passed while Dems had control of all 3 branches of government.....something Trump could not manage, with his wall, when the Repubs had the same the past 2 years.

You know what would cost even LESS than Trumps wall AND the Obama Care Website??  No wall.  So that must be better! Right?!?!

You obviously missed his point ..

Many people bitch about the COST of the wall.  It's NOTHING compared to how much is spent on other useless things in this country.  1/10th of 1% of the budget I believe...and Democrats throw a hissy fit....just because it's Trump. 

No they don't. They just see that maybe spending money on things like healthcare might be a more sensible thing to do than building some insane wall, an idea so bonkers that people across the world laugh at the very thought of it.

So what if it costs less than the creation of healthcare? You going to apply that logic to every nutcase idea going? There's an awful lot of other useless ideas that would probably be cheaper than helping out the most vulnerable in society.......

[allwaystired]

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

Same.

And it's been that way since November-ish.

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Stock market- just fine
Tax Cuts- good
Economy- good
Supreme Court Appointee- good
TPP move - good
Diplomacy/confronting China- good
NATO- good
Ending Iran Deal- good
Prison reform- good
Middle class wage rise
Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing
Increasing minority jobs
US now largest producer of crude oil. 

And more...

"Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't."

How about popping back when they're not then? An odd approach to an argument really!

[pilferk]

Trumps wall costs less than the Obama care website!

GREAT comparison. 

One is a functionally useless penis extension.

The other helped in halving the number of uninsured people in our country (from 18% to 9% as of this year).

AND, on top of all that, Obamacare was passed while Dems had control of all 3 branches of government.....something Trump could not manage, with his wall, when the Repubs had the same the past 2 years.

You know what would cost even LESS than Trumps wall AND the Obama Care Website??  No wall.  So that must be better! Right?!?!

You obviously missed his point ..

Many people bitch about the COST of the wall.  It's NOTHING compared to how much is spent on other useless things in this country.  1/10th of 1% of the budget I believe...and Democrats throw a hissy fit....just because it's Trump. 

I think you're  the one missing the point (ignoring the op simply yelled a fox news talking point, verbatim, and ran off).

If (and thats a big if) that was the ops point, they should have cited something else that was useless, like trumps wall, in making that point. Because, as it stands, that cant be their point, given the obamacare website was effective and useful. THATS my point. Apples to oranges.

And your argument is the single worst reason i have ever seen to justify spending money we dont need to spend...while watching our deficit skyrocket already.

"Well, theres other stuff too." Seriously?  So....then we should show NO fiscal restraint, at all, because...hey....its not THAT MUCH wasteful spending? If we all ran our hosehold budgets that way....we would all be dead broke. Death by a million cuts. Useless spending is useless spending.  I mean, a vacation would cost a lot less than our annual mortgage cost, so...forget that our credit cards are almost maxed! Lets take out a second mortgage and head out on that 10 day cruise! Its a drop in the bucket (even though the boat is full of water, and the bucket is overflowing already). I mean, your analogy is truly terrible.

So....heres my proposal...lets cut all that useless stuff, too. All the pork, all the pet projects and givebacks and corporate legislative bribery. All the truly wasteful and useless spending that has, objectively, zero real benefit. I am on board!  Remember, there was a time Repubs were the party of fiscal Responsibility? Yeah, lets get the party back to that: Reagan era republican pragmatism. I would vote for those folks A LOT.

Dems are disagreeing because its a useless penis extension. You cant say its just because its trump when they are literally willing to give him everything else he asked for in relation to border security. Sort of obliterates that argument, no? They are perfectly willing to allocate money to things that actually might work.

Dems wont give in to his tantrum. Thats the truth.

[pilferk]

Now that we and Russia have pulled out of the nuclear arms treaty and Putin has ordered the development of new missles, how long before the nuclear war. This i dare any Trumper to defend.

Now we r back to the pre-election predictions of nuclear war. Nice.

Maybe liberals should be focused on your racist governors. Gotta give it to a guy that says he’s sorry, then argues he didn’t dress in blackface because....he dressed in blackface another time.

But liberals were more upset about a 16 y/o citizen smirking.

We’ve had some great laughs this weekend!!!

Can't argue with that - the smirking kid scene was definitely pushed as an extension of Trump
This governor sees his whole political career go up in smoke - so he's trying last grasp effort to hold onto power
Just apologize and go away

I would offer both examples should do exactly that:

Apologize, take responsibility for their actions, and disappear.

I would also note: the kids brought the trump extension talk on themselves with the mass maga hat roll out.  And lets face it: Their disrespectful actions and rhetoric closely matches Trumps own rhetoric. Its not much of a leap, here. You can say its fair or unfair, but its not inapt.

[pilferk]

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

Same.

And it's been that way since November-ish.

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Stock market- just fine
Tax Cuts- good
Economy- good
Supreme Court Appointee- good
TPP move - good
Diplomacy/confronting China- good
NATO- good
Ending Iran Deal- good
Prison reform- good
Middle class wage rise
Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing
Increasing minority jobs
US now largest producer of crude oil. 

And more...

"Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't."

How about popping back when they're not then? An odd approach to an argument really!

Apparently, convictions and opinions on issues evaporate when your team is in the lead, and only reappear when the opposing team has the lead?  I guess?

Idk, it was pretty nonsensical to me, too.

[damnthehaters]

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

November? It was.  It was a huge win for the Democrats.  And if you believe anything else?  You should stop watching Fox News.

+40 seats in the House?  24 - 10 in the Senate races? A complete drubbing in total number of dem votes cast, nationwide. That's a win for sure!  

Given what was up for election in November, in terms of Senate Seats (Dems held 26 of the 34 seats up for grabs).....it broke pretty damn well for the Dems.  They NEARLY duplicated, in the mid terms, the results from a historic (considered a huge win) 2012 PRESIDENTIAL election, where their presidential candidate won handily.  They flipped Trump states, and even in the seats where Repubs won, their margins drastically shrunk vs Trump margins.

The. Dems. Competed. IN TEXAS?!

Yeah, it was a win.

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

I'd argue that GnR, themselves, would disagree.  Axl sure would. 

The fact you ACTUALLY see an analogy here is a big part of the problem.  Politics is not entertainment.  Politicians, and their actions, being covered is not the same as paparazzi covering a rock band.

In terms of letting the media fool you: Pot, kettle, black.

Stop watching Fox News.

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.

Stop watching Fox News. Stop letting the President's twitter feed influence your perception of the opposition party.

Democrats aren't as far left as you think. Nor are they, largely, espousing extremist ideas. If you think they are, go ahead and provide examples. I'll await your list of Fox News talking points.

  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Nobody is crying. We think he's a terrible president and a shitty human being.  And we have ample evidence of it. I know how inconvenient that is....

Republicans are not in office...not entirely.  Did you miss November?

And I know.  It must be hard (impossible) to defend most of this president's rhetoric, actions, and policies.  I wouldn't come here, either, if I were a hardcore Trump supporter.  Not many wins to "crow" about, right now....it's OK.  We get it. It's uncomfortable.

"Stop watching Fox News"...lol. Nice comeback...😒  It's gotten hilarious how often a liberal will resort to saying "stop watching Fox News" when someone disagrees with something them and 90% of the media says.   Oh God, he must be watching Fox News.  Lol.  For the record, I don't watch any of the major news sites, because it's all garbage.  Just like your arguments.  And yes, you are ....crying. 😢😢😢. 

I could own you on all your silly rebuttals (some of which missed the point once again) , but I must go to work and earn my money.  Peace

[damnthehaters]

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

Same.

And it's been that way since November-ish.

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Stock market- just fine
Tax Cuts- good
Economy- good
Supreme Court Appointee- good
TPP move - good
Diplomacy/confronting China- good
NATO- good
Ending Iran Deal- good
Prison reform- good
Middle class wage rise
Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing
Increasing minority jobs
US now largest producer of crude oil. 

And more...

"Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't."

How about popping back when they're not then? An odd approach to an argument really!

Why would I?  So that I could cry and complain like you guys?  Na, got better things to do

[pilferk]

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

November? It was.  It was a huge win for the Democrats.  And if you believe anything else?  You should stop watching Fox News.

+40 seats in the House?  24 - 10 in the Senate races? A complete drubbing in total number of dem votes cast, nationwide. That's a win for sure!  

Given what was up for election in November, in terms of Senate Seats (Dems held 26 of the 34 seats up for grabs).....it broke pretty damn well for the Dems.  They NEARLY duplicated, in the mid terms, the results from a historic (considered a huge win) 2012 PRESIDENTIAL election, where their presidential candidate won handily.  They flipped Trump states, and even in the seats where Repubs won, their margins drastically shrunk vs Trump margins.

The. Dems. Competed. IN TEXAS?!

Yeah, it was a win.

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

I'd argue that GnR, themselves, would disagree.  Axl sure would. 

The fact you ACTUALLY see an analogy here is a big part of the problem.  Politics is not entertainment.  Politicians, and their actions, being covered is not the same as paparazzi covering a rock band.

In terms of letting the media fool you: Pot, kettle, black.

Stop watching Fox News.

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.

Stop watching Fox News. Stop letting the President's twitter feed influence your perception of the opposition party.

Democrats aren't as far left as you think. Nor are they, largely, espousing extremist ideas. If you think they are, go ahead and provide examples. I'll await your list of Fox News talking points.

  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Nobody is crying. We think he's a terrible president and a shitty human being.  And we have ample evidence of it. I know how inconvenient that is....

Republicans are not in office...not entirely.  Did you miss November?

And I know.  It must be hard (impossible) to defend most of this president's rhetoric, actions, and policies.  I wouldn't come here, either, if I were a hardcore Trump supporter.  Not many wins to "crow" about, right now....it's OK.  We get it. It's uncomfortable.

"Stop watching Fox News"...lol. Nice comeback...😒  It's gotten hilarious how often a liberal will resort to saying "stop watching Fox News" when someone disagrees with something them and 90% of the media says.   Oh God, he must be watching Fox News.  Lol.  For the record, I don't watch any of the major news sites, because it's all garbage.  Just like your arguments.  And yes, you are ....crying. 😢😢😢. 

I could own you on all your silly rebuttals (some of which missed the point once again) , but I must go to work and earn my money.  Peace

Pretty much exactly  the response i expected. Right down to the fox news objection.

Also, not a liberal. Sorry (not sorry) to disappoint. I love when you all try to pigeonhole me there. It blows up so spectacularly for you. I'm an independent voter. Socially progressive, fiscally conservative. Think more libertarian, but not quite. Terrible try, though. Disliking and disagreeing with Trump, as president,  and his administration doesn't make you liberal. Neither does finding him to be a piece of shit human being (something Repubs would have agreed on a very short time ago). The funny part is....in the state i live in...I am much closer to a centrist republican than i am a liberal dem.

People use the fox news retort because its the same 10 talking points, ad nauseum, like a hive mind. And when confronted with something that flips the script, its a direct flight to "snowflake liberal insult" land and exit, stage left. Thanks for following suit. Maybe you're more into Breitbart and Infowars...idk. But the talking points are (frighteningly) similar...so the argument stands: stop depending solely on conservative news sources for your news, be they infowars, breitbart, fox news, bills podcast,or zany facebook/social media posts.  Also, your "objection" totally ignores the rest of the supporting justification in each rebuttal.

Again, nobody is crying. You are confusing disagreement, and participation in the debate that fuels democracy, with some sort of emotional outburst. Given your posts here in the last couple days, I can see why this confuses you. Its ok. We will wake you up when its time to chant "lock her up" and "mexico is going to pay for it" (except they aren't).

Enjoy the shift! Maybe Sean/Rush/Glen/Bill/Alex will go on a rant today that you can get worked up over! If so, i am sure we will see its content coming soon to a post near us!

[allwaystired]

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

Same.

And it's been that way since November-ish.

I love this comment.. . As if it's a WIN for Democrats. 

I'm no "hardcore" Trump supporter, but I do support him and the Republican Party.  His personal attacks are not supported by me....but policy is the bottom line.  If I had enough time, I could share plenty in detail that Trump has done in his two years that has been good.  There is PLENTY out there (alluded to below) Don't let the media fool you.  We as GNR fans should know better.  Remember how the media treated GNR for so many years?  So many similarities, and if you are a Republican...it's easy to see. 

Unless something drastically changes, I don't see myself ever voting Democratic again.  Their policies, ideas, and extreme thinking is mind blowing.  Not to mention the amount of tears they shed, and still to this day...crying and complaining.  The reason why I don't respond much on here, is because it's pointless for the most part (Tim and Pilferk..😉).  Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't.

Stock market- just fine
Tax Cuts- good
Economy- good
Supreme Court Appointee- good
TPP move - good
Diplomacy/confronting China- good
NATO- good
Ending Iran Deal- good
Prison reform- good
Middle class wage rise
Moving US Embasy which most presidents before him only talked about doing
Increasing minority jobs
US now largest producer of crude oil. 

And more...

"Republicans are in office and why do I need to come back here and argue with you guys complaining?  I don't."

How about popping back when they're not then? An odd approach to an argument really!

Why would I?  So that I could cry and complain like you guys?  Na, got better things to do

That's your second post telling us you've got better things to do than post on this forum.

Posting on a forum repeatedly to tell people you're too busy to post on a forum. Is that sonething Dante forgot?!

[COMAMOTIVE]

The man is a train wreck of a human being but to crap all over any good he's done while in office seems short sighted.
There's good and plenty of bad but to not be able to at least admit something speaks loudly.

[sandman]

Now that we and Russia have pulled out of the nuclear arms treaty and Putin has ordered the development of new missles, how long before the nuclear war. This i dare any Trumper to defend.

Now we r back to the pre-election predictions of nuclear war. Nice.

Maybe liberals should be focused on your racist governors. Gotta give it to a guy that says he’s sorry, then argues he didn’t dress in blackface because....he dressed in blackface another time.

But liberals were more upset about a 16 y/o citizen smirking.

We’ve had some great laughs this weekend!!!

Can't argue with that - the smirking kid scene was definitely pushed as an extension of Trump
This governor sees his whole political career go up in smoke - so he's trying last grasp effort to hold onto power
Just apologize and go away

I would offer both examples should do exactly that:

Apologize, take responsibility for their actions, and disappear.

I woukd also note: the kids brought the trump extension talk on themselves with the mass maga hat roll out.  And lets face it. Their disrespectful actions and rhetoric closely matches Trumps own rhetoric. Its not much of a leap, here. You can say its fair or unfair, but its not inapt.

It must make you feel tough sitting behind a computer acting like a bully and saying that 16 year old american citizens should disappear.

[allwaystired]

Now that we and Russia have pulled out of the nuclear arms treaty and Putin has ordered the development of new missles, how long before the nuclear war. This i dare any Trumper to defend.

Now we r back to the pre-election predictions of nuclear war. Nice.

Maybe liberals should be focused on your racist governors. Gotta give it to a guy that says he’s sorry, then argues he didn’t dress in blackface because....he dressed in blackface another time.

But liberals were more upset about a 16 y/o citizen smirking.

We’ve had some great laughs this weekend!!!

Can't argue with that - the smirking kid scene was definitely pushed as an extension of Trump
This governor sees his whole political career go up in smoke - so he's trying last grasp effort to hold onto power
Just apologize and go away

I would offer both examples should do exactly that:

Apologize, take responsibility for their actions, and disappear.

I woukd also note: the kids brought the trump extension talk on themselves with the mass maga hat roll out.  And lets face it. Their disrespectful actions and rhetoric closely matches Trumps own rhetoric. Its not much of a leap, here. You can say its fair or unfair, but its not inapt.

It must make you feel tough sitting behind a computer acting like a bully and saying that 16 year old american citizens should disappear.

I don't see any bullies on this forum really, all considered.

I do see a president mocking the disabled and saying it'ok to grab women 'by the pussy'. Personally I'd call that bullying. Or worse.

[pilferk]

The man is a train wreck of a human being but to crap all over any good he's done while in office seems short sighted.
There's good and plenty of bad but to not be able to at least admit something speaks loudly.

Except....I did.

Take a look.

Prison reform and working to get those NK hostages released.

I also did not discount, entirely, Trumps influence on the economy or wages.  Both are just two early to tell.  Wages, especially, have lagged well behind the economic recovery (which economists have found odd).  I'd like to see more than a quick late 2018 blip on the radar before we get all excited over it....because a .6% increase in real wages (wage rise vs inflation) for 2018 isn't enough to take the "W", IMHO.  Economic growth has been fueled, in the last two quarters, by big fed spending AND some anomalies (China stocking up on soybeans prior to the start of the trade war, for example).  Forecasts for Q4 put us right back down into the mid 2s and forecasts for 2019 right now are not overly optimistic (upper 1's and low 2's).  We are now fully in a Trump economy, according to economists (we are more than 18 months into his presidency)....lets see what happens now.

If you think that's unfair, by all means...provide a list of additional stuff you think he's done thats good and we'll look at it (as we just did). To be clear: NOT stuff that's happened...stuff he has done to CAUSE (or influence) stuff that's happened.  There's been a tiny bit, and during these discussions, when they crop up, I do give him credit where it's due.

There's just not much there to give him credit for....

[pilferk]

I don't see any bullies on this forum really, all considered.

I do see a president mocking the disabled and saying it'ok to grab women 'by the pussy'. Personally I'd call that bullying. Or worse.

Again, you know, ginned up moral outrage is sandman's troll specialty.  As I said to tim...easier just not to feed him.

Especially when it's obvious to anyone with a brain that "disappear" means "disappear from the public eye/conversation".

But, you know, some of the posters look for ANY reason to clutch those pearls.

[sandman]

I don't see any bullies on this forum really, all considered.

I do see a president mocking the disabled and saying it'ok to grab women 'by the pussy'. Personally I'd call that bullying. Or worse.

Again, you know, ginned up moral outrage is sandman's troll specialty.  As I said to tim...easier just not to feed him.

Especially when it's obvious to anyone with a brain that "disappear" means "disappear from the public eye/conversation".

But, you know, some of the posters look for ANY reason to clutch those pearls.

Taxman - I did not think you meant kill him. but telling an innocent 16 year-old to just go away is a pretty pathetic thing for an adult to say. he became famous because people like yourself can't stand someone (even children) wearing MAGA hats. so the anti-trump world comes together online to create a false narrative that he did something wrong (while conveniently ignoring the actions of the actual adults in the situation - talk about having your head up your ass and falling for the BS spewed by the left wing media). 

unfortunately for you, the smirking MAGA kid is not going away. and he will become a whole lot richer. thanks to people like yourself.