Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[allwaystired]

Roger Stone was arrested

Shocker

 

Seemed like such an honest guy too.....let me guess, it'll be a part of the 'left-wing media agenda bias' that he's been arrested? Or maybe the old "I knew nothing about this man's activities" line from Trump?

[pilferk]

Roger Stone was arrested

Shocker

 

Yeah, I think that's to the surprise of exactly no one (not even him). 

But we creep ever closer, step by step, to the President.

So far, things have been very Watergate-y. 

[allwaystired]

Roger Stone was arrested

Shocker

 

Yeah, I think that's to the surprise of exactly no one (not even him). 

But we creep ever closer, step by step, to the President.

So far, things have been very Watergate-y. 

Can I ask - what's the public mood in America at the moment, in general about the whole situation? Does it vary wildly depending on who you ask/state to state, or is there a general attitude towards it all?

[pilferk]

Why can't the amazing businessman get private funding for his wall? Get some sponsors....

In "socialist" countries, tax money is used for infrastructure projects..... Is the USA is turning into Venezuela? 


The East Germans built a wall to "keep the fascists out".... Reagan wanted it torn down. Fortunately it happened. Now here we are, people are still thinking walls are the answer to their problems (if there are no problems, they can be made up).




/jarmo

I think we all know why he can't get private investment for his wall - no one will touch it with a bargepole.

It's insane - I remember back when Trump was running and people were howling with laughter about this ignorant, racist, sexist, rich-guy reality star wanting to run for President with "building a big wall around Mexico" as one of his ideas. It seemed so ludicrous it was just funny. It boggles the mind that not only did it happen, but the US government is in shutdown while that man throws a tantrum about it not actually being feasible.

Trumps method of control is simply fear. Hatred as a tool. Stoking fear in those that have little against others who have little, while him and his rich pals get on with filling their pockets, destroying the environment, and diverting attention from themselves.

That people don't see this age old diversion trick, which has been used for centuries by all sorts of lunatics, says much about the vulnerability of the disenfranchised and the risks of not listening to those who don't have a voice. If you don't listen - someone will pretend to, and use that pretense for their own gain.

Here's the compromise I would offer to Trump:

You can have your 5 billion for your wall, BUT...not anything else for border security.  Since he seems to think that's the best (and most effective) option....that's all he gets. And it's ALL he gets til at least Aug 2020. Prove that "build the wall, and crime will fall" slogan is true.

AND there's a poison pill, if it's not.  IF crime statistics (drug imports, human trafficking, illegal immigrant entry) don't fall by at least 15% IN EXACTLY 18 months (ie July 2020) from allocation, THEN:

Capital gains tax increases 10%
Marginal rate on 1 million+ increases 15%
Marginal rate on 5 million+ increases 20%
Marginal rate on 10 million+ increases 25%

for the next 3 years.

Which will more than fund the 5 billion he basically stole from the American people, and the ACTUAL border security improvements that will make a difference.

Of course, NO Republican would vote for that bill.  Because, for all their talk, they know they'd be defacto voting for tax increases. Because the wall will have no appreciable effect on ANY of the things the president keeps using as justification for it's construction. And they ALL know it.

[pilferk]

Can I ask - what's the public mood in America at the moment, in general about the whole situation? Does it vary wildly depending on who you ask/state to state, or is there a general attitude towards it all?

Everyone is sort of disgusted.  WHAT they're disgusted about varies.

It varies wildly by who you are talking to, and what letter they lay their allegience to, mostly.  R's salivate at the thought of a giant trump penis extension.  Dems and Independants (more and more of them) cringe at the thought of it.

But polling is showing, lately, that things are not going well for the President on this topic.  About 70%+ blame Trump and the Repubs and about the same % (maybe a tic higher) don't want the wall.  His approval rating is in the toilet.

He has that hardcore 30%ish that aren't budging.

The vote yesterday was quite telling.  More Repubs defected to the Dem bill (6) than Dems defected to the Repub bill (1).  The Dem bill actually got more votes (53 vs 50), which is being seen as the writing on the wall to Senate Repub leadership.

[allwaystired]

Can I ask - what's the public mood in America at the moment, in general about the whole situation? Does it vary wildly depending on who you ask/state to state, or is there a general attitude towards it all?

Everyone is sort of disgusted.  WHAT they're disgusted about varies.

It varies wildly by who you are talking to, and what letter they lay their allegience to, mostly.  R's salivate at the thought of a giant trump penis extension.  Dems and Independants (more and more of them) cringe at the thought of it.

But polling is showing, lately, that things are not going well for the President on this topic.  About 70%+ blame Trump and the Repubs and about the same % (maybe a tic higher) don't want the wall.  His approval rating is in the toilet.

He has that hardcore 30%ish that aren't budging.

The vote yesterday was quite telling.  More Repubs defected to the Dem bill (6) than Dems defected to the Repub bill (1).  The Dem bill actually got more votes (53 vs 50), which is being seen as the writing on the wall to Senate Repub leadership.

That all sounds pretty promising for a more positive future. Thanks for the insight.

It's difficult to know how people feel, and I'm always conscious that as I don't live among it I don't want to assume what people think. In my country there's sort of two attitudes to him really: a laughing stock, or a dangerous lunatic. People lean towards one of those views, so it's quite hard to know what the actual perception of him in America is.

[allwaystired]

Why can't the amazing businessman get private funding for his wall? Get some sponsors....

In "socialist" countries, tax money is used for infrastructure projects..... Is the USA is turning into Venezuela? 


The East Germans built a wall to "keep the fascists out".... Reagan wanted it torn down. Fortunately it happened. Now here we are, people are still thinking walls are the answer to their problems (if there are no problems, they can be made up).




/jarmo

I think we all know why he can't get private investment for his wall - no one will touch it with a bargepole.

It's insane - I remember back when Trump was running and people were howling with laughter about this ignorant, racist, sexist, rich-guy reality star wanting to run for President with "building a big wall around Mexico" as one of his ideas. It seemed so ludicrous it was just funny. It boggles the mind that not only did it happen, but the US government is in shutdown while that man throws a tantrum about it not actually being feasible.

Trumps method of control is simply fear. Hatred as a tool. Stoking fear in those that have little against others who have little, while him and his rich pals get on with filling their pockets, destroying the environment, and diverting attention from themselves.

That people don't see this age old diversion trick, which has been used for centuries by all sorts of lunatics, says much about the vulnerability of the disenfranchised and the risks of not listening to those who don't have a voice. If you don't listen - someone will pretend to, and use that pretense for their own gain.

Here's the compromise I would offer to Trump:

You can have your 5 billion for your wall, BUT...not anything else for border security.  Since he seems to think that's the best (and most effective) option....that's all he gets. And it's ALL he gets til at least Aug 2020. Prove that "build the wall, and crime will fall" slogan is true.

AND there's a poison pill, if it's not.  IF crime statistics (drug imports, human trafficking, illegal immigrant entry) don't fall by at least 15% IN EXACTLY 18 months (ie July 2020) from allocation, THEN:

Capital gains tax increases 10%
Marginal rate on 1 million+ increases 15%
Marginal rate on 5 million+ increases 20%
Marginal rate on 10 million+ increases 25%

for the next 3 years.

Which will more than fund the 5 billion he basically stole from the American people, and the ACTUAL border security improvements that will make a difference.

Of course, NO Republican would vote for that bill.  Because, for all their talk, they know they'd be defacto voting for tax increases. Because the wall will have no appreciable effect on ANY of the things the president keeps using as justification for it's construction. And they ALL know it.

That would be amazing - a perfect solution in fact.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Can I ask - what's the public mood in America at the moment, in general about the whole situation? Does it vary wildly depending on who you ask/state to state, or is there a general attitude towards it all?

Everyone is sort of disgusted.  WHAT they're disgusted about varies.

It varies wildly by who you are talking to, and what letter they lay their allegience to, mostly.  R's salivate at the thought of a giant trump penis extension.  Dems and Independants (more and more of them) cringe at the thought of it.

But polling is showing, lately, that things are not going well for the President on this topic.  About 70%+ blame Trump and the Repubs and about the same % (maybe a tic higher) don't want the wall.  His approval rating is in the toilet.

He has that hardcore 30%ish that aren't budging.

The vote yesterday was quite telling.  More Repubs defected to the Dem bill (6) than Dems defected to the Repub bill (1).  The Dem bill actually got more votes (53 vs 50), which is being seen as the writing on the wall to Senate Repub leadership.

Exactly right

The hardcore Trump supporters will not defer until the fucker is removed or in jail - even then some will not abandon

The hardcore left assumes the more of this we see the fucker will be removed or in jail - and will never be convinced he's on the up and up

The middle (Nice to meet you) seem just tired and disgusted by the chaos and will be responsible for voting the fucker out

[allwaystired]

Can I ask - what's the public mood in America at the moment, in general about the whole situation? Does it vary wildly depending on who you ask/state to state, or is there a general attitude towards it all?

Everyone is sort of disgusted.  WHAT they're disgusted about varies.

It varies wildly by who you are talking to, and what letter they lay their allegience to, mostly.  R's salivate at the thought of a giant trump penis extension.  Dems and Independants (more and more of them) cringe at the thought of it.

But polling is showing, lately, that things are not going well for the President on this topic.  About 70%+ blame Trump and the Repubs and about the same % (maybe a tic higher) don't want the wall.  His approval rating is in the toilet.

He has that hardcore 30%ish that aren't budging.

The vote yesterday was quite telling.  More Repubs defected to the Dem bill (6) than Dems defected to the Repub bill (1).  The Dem bill actually got more votes (53 vs 50), which is being seen as the writing on the wall to Senate Repub leadership.

Exactly right

The hardcore Trump supporters will not defer until the fucker is removed or in jail - even then some will not abandon

The hardcore left assumes the more of this we see the fucker will be removed or in jail - and will never be convinced he's on the up and up

The middle (Nice to meet you) seem just tired and disgusted by the chaos and will be responsible for voting the fucker out

It just seems to be drama after drama and scandal after scandal. Each time I think "wow, that's GOT to be it for him" some other scandal just replaces it. Even his most ardent 'fans' must be looking at the mess he's creating and losing faith at the moment....even if they don't publicly admit it.

[pilferk]

It just seems to be drama after drama and scandal after scandal. Each time I think "wow, that's GOT to be it for him" some other scandal just replaces it. Even his most ardent 'fans' must be looking at the mess he's creating and losing faith at the moment....even if they don't publicly admit it.

I hope so.  There's no sign of it, though.....

[pilferk]

Looks like there's going to be a short term deal that opens the govt til Feb 15th. And, more importantly, gets everyone paid.

No money for the wall.

Maybe a small amount of money allocated for repairing existing structures.

Negotiations will continue (start?).

At least that's what's being reported right now....we'll see what he announces...and then what he signs.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Looks like there's going to be a short term deal that opens the govt til Feb 15th. And, more importantly, gets everyone paid.

No money for the wall.

Maybe a small amount of money allocated for repairing existing structures.

Negotiations will continue (start?).

At least that's what's being reported right now....we'll see what he announces...and then what he signs.

Good.

[tim_m]

I can't possibly be the only one thinking he agreed to this all the sudden today to create a distraction to the Roger Stone arrest.

[pilferk]

I can't possibly be the only one thinking he agreed to this all the sudden today to create a distraction to the Roger Stone arrest.

Partly, maybe.

I think mostly because air traffic controllers went into full blue flu mode, amd traffic in and around la guardia.....and many other airports...was a snarled mess. Those sorts of delays were onee cappers for the president/repubs, given public opinion.

[tim_m]

Just seems ironic he did it today after that news broke.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Maybe - but Stone was basically in and out and quite defiant as you'd expect - presenting an image that it's more of the same and he's not rolling on Trump anytime soon

I believe this was planned, probably earlier in the week - Trump knew he had to cave and doing it on a Friday allows less abuse in the media to his manhood for folding on the wall funding

Of course - give Schumer a chance to be an ahole and he never misses that opportunity. Couldn't just go on the air and say we're all moving on...nope
Has to say "The president learned his lesson" ..blah blah...he sucks too and middle America looks at him as a real problem too.

[tim_m]

Borrowing more money again this year to pay for the tax cuts that were supposed to pay for themselves. Are we winning yet?

[LunsJail]

It just seems to be drama after drama and scandal after scandal. Each time I think "wow, that's GOT to be it for him" some other scandal just replaces it. Even his most ardent 'fans' must be looking at the mess he's creating and losing faith at the moment....even if they don't publicly admit it.

I hope so.  There's no sign of it, though.....

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

[pilferk]

Some of the more hardcore Trump supporters I know have been a little quieter lately.  I don't think they're off the bandwagon but they're at least finding him harder to defend.

Same.

And it's been that way since November-ish.

[SV4GNR]

Na it's just useless to argue over nothing new has happened in the past few months. Trump wants what he wants and the democrats keep their heads buried in the sand and refuse to negotiate or like anything Trumps likes. At this point I almost think if Trump came out and said the wall is a horrible idea the democrats would start building it tomorrow lol.  Everyone has their own opinions and are entitled to them. People need to try to see where the other person is coming from and try to understand why they feel and beleive what they do. Not just hate and belittle the person because they don't have the same opinion you do.