Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

Well, America proves it's ... America. Yet again. Sure, Dems picked up the House, but in any rational society, this would have been a blue tsunami.

A damning indictment of this country's true nature.

IDK, man.

They picked up a 25 seat (at least...and probably closer to 30 once the CA districts come in) majority in the House.  That means no more single party rule.
They picked up 300+ State Rep and Senate seats.
They picked up about 7 governorships
They won the total vote by 9+% (which is 2% points more than the tea party won by in the initial "Red Wave" during Obama's administration).

They lost some senate seats in a BRUTAL environment where they were already +9 going in (aka of the 30 something seats up, repubs were only defending 10, I think?..the rest were all Dem seats).  Any expectation of taking the senate was (and I said this over in the politics thread) a distant pipe dream.  Yes, it sucks that ALL the close high profile Senate races broke to the Repubs (or, so it looks so far).  And yes, you're going to hear the Repubs crow that that's a HUGE win for Trump (ignoring he lost MAJOR margins from 2016 in each of those races) because he campaigned (on hate, misogyny, and racism) in those states.  But the fact is, the Repubs face a similar brutal road in 2020....and we'll have to see if the Trump "shine" is as effective then (because it's a sure thing that it lost some luster, given the margins, in 2018).

And sure, they lost the rock star races in squeakers.  But given the demographics of those 3 races, I'm not shocked. Black woman in Georgia, black man in Florida, and a Democrat in Texas?  If anything, I'm shocked by how CLOSE they were.  I was hoping they'd pull at least one of them out, too, but....I'm hardly surprised they didn't.

But make no mistake: This was a winning night for the Dems.  They did what they had to do.  And those governorships?  The reason the dems "won" by +9 and still didn't take 50+ seats? Gerrymandering. And having Dem governors at the helm of some of those gerrymandered states is going to help, tremendously.  As are all those state rep and senate pick ups.  You saw blue penetrate into the repub suburbs, and push the Repub party older and more rural in terms of demographics.  There's progress, there...and a lot of it.  I know it's not what you guys wanted, but it's certainly not a head hanger!

One other thing to keep in mind: Wisconsin, Michigan, PA, and to some extent Ohio (Dem Senator but Repub Gov), all moved considerably bluer last night.  If Trump had lost those states in 2016, Clinton would be president.  If he loses them in 2020...he's gonna have a VERY tough path to 270.

Get off the ledge. The dems did just fine.

[poorlakers]

Is it not a good thing that we (USA) have checks & balances - even with politics?

[tim_m]

Well, America proves it's ... America. Yet again. Sure, Dems picked up the House, but in any rational society, this would have been a blue tsunami.

A damning indictment of this country's true nature.

IDK, man.

They picked up a 25 seat (at least...and probably closer to 30 once the CA districts come in) majority in the House.  That means no more single party rule.
They picked up 300+ State Rep and Senate seats.
They picked up about 7 governorships
They won the total vote by 9+% (which is 2% points more than the tea party won by in the initial "Red Wave" during Obama's administration).

They lost some senate seats in a BRUTAL environment where they were already +9 going in (aka of the 30 something seats up, repubs were only defending 10, I think?..the rest were all Dem seats).  Any expectation of taking the senate was (and I said this over in the politics thread) a distant pipe dream.  Yes, it sucks that ALL the close high profile Senate races broke to the Repubs (or, so it looks so far).  And yes, you're going to hear the Repubs crow that that's a HUGE win for Trump (ignoring he lost MAJOR margins from 2016 in each of those races) because he campaigned (on hate, misogyny, and racism) in those states.  But the fact is, the Repubs face a similar brutal road in 2020....and we'll have to see if the Trump "shine" is as effective then (because it's a sure thing that it lost some luster, given the margins, in 2018).

And sure, they lost the rock star races in squeakers.  But given the demographics of those 3 races, I'm not shocked. Black woman in Georgia, black man in Florida, and a Democrat in Texas?  If anything, I'm shocked by how CLOSE they were.  I was hoping they'd pull at least one of them out, too, but....I'm hardly surprised they didn't.

But make no mistake: This was a winning night for the Dems.  They did what they had to do.  And those governorships?  The reason the dems "won" by +9 and still didn't take 50+ seats? Gerrymandering. And having Dem governors at the helm of some of those gerrymandered states is going to help, tremendously.  As are all those state rep and senate pick ups.  You saw blue penetrate into the repub suburbs, and push the Repub party older and more rural in terms of demographics.  There's progress, there...and a lot of it.  I know it's not what you guys wanted, but it's certainly not a head hanger!

One other thing to keep in mind: Wisconsin, Michigan, PA, and to some extent Ohio (Dem Senator but Repub Gov), all moved considerably bluer last night.  If Trump had lost those states in 2016, Clinton would be president.  If he loses them in 2020...he's gonna have a VERY tough path to 270.

Get off the ledge. The dems did just fine.

Completely agree, it is not all doom and gloom. We got the house so the president doesn't have carte blanche to do whatever the hell he wants anymore. Like you said the 3 states that put him in the white house went to democrat governors last night. So they get to draw the maps for 2020. We are gonna have a 30 seat lead in the house. But what last night was really about is women. They showed up in record numbers and told the old white guys time is up. A historic number of more then 100 women will be in  Congress, the first 2 native american women got elected, the first two muslim women got elected. Massachusetts elected its first black woman to congress. 8 women were elected governor last night. New York elected the youngest person ever to congress also a woman. This was the year of the woman and its about damn time. All is not lost in the "rockstar" races. Florida passed the amendment to restore voting rights of over 1 million felons. That will play huge in 2020 most of them are black voters. Abrams in Georgia doesn't look like its going to conclude in the near future. in Texas Beto only lost by 220k votes less than 3 percent. Cruz won that seat in 2012 by over a million votes. Hillary lost by 9%. Beto took it down 7%. Beto got more votes then Hillary. Texas is really starting to change. It couldn't quite do it this year but by 2020 who knows? Democrats had huge nights in state houses. In Texas we flipped 12 seats, 5 of them were women. There's a lot of things for democrats and women to hang their hats on from last night.

[tim_m]

I see New Yorkers are crying for an electoral college cause boo hoo they can't nominate a republican that can win the governor race. Here's an idea nominate someone who can appeal to the moderate democrats and independents in the urban areas like NYC. I suggest they look in the mirror and figure out  why people in urban areas are fleeing the Republican party like they're on fire.

[tim_m]

And just a day after the election we have another mass shooting by a psychotic white guy, but brown people are our biggest threat so says Trump. Notice how quiet the right got about the caravan now that the election is over? Trumps gone back to to his anti press and election fraud spiel.. 

[pilferk]

And just a day after the election we have another mass shooting by a psychotic white guy, but brown people are our biggest threat so says Trump. Notice how quiet the right got about the caravan now that the election is over? Trumps gone back to to his anti press and election fraud spiel.. 

And protests in the streets over Trumps potentially illegal/unconstitutional Acting AG appointment (who, it's obvious, was appointed specifically to stymie the Mueller investigation).

I just.....I honestly don't know how the Repubs can continue on their constant rationalization. He's making them look like fools.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

And just a day after the election we have another mass shooting by a psychotic white guy, but brown people are our biggest threat so says Trump. Notice how quiet the right got about the caravan now that the election is over? Trumps gone back to to his anti press and election fraud spiel.. 

Having thousands of immigrants  possibly come into our country illegally has nothing to do with their skin color nor does a mentally ill nutjob.  Not always about race. 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Floriduh once again proving that we are incompetent when it comes to elections.   

 
The state that brought you the 2000 presidential recount will try to outdo itself in ’18
https://www.bradenton.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article221379125.html

Florida teacher finds ‘provisional ballot box’ in storage area
https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/florida-teacher-finds-provisional-ballot-box-in-storage-area/


Woman in Minnesota Receives Broward County Ballot in the Mail
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/woman-in-minnesota-receives-broward-county-ballot-in-the-mail/

[tim_m]

And just a day after the election we have another mass shooting by a psychotic white guy, but brown people are our biggest threat so says Trump. Notice how quiet the right got about the caravan now that the election is over? Trumps gone back to to his anti press and election fraud spiel.. 

Having thousands of immigrants  possibly come into our country illegally has nothing to do with their skin color nor does a mentally ill nutjob.  Not always about race. 

Coming here to seek political asylum is not illegal. If you really think it has nothing to do with race i have a few bridges for sale you might be interested in.

[tim_m]

And just a day after the election we have another mass shooting by a psychotic white guy, but brown people are our biggest threat so says Trump. Notice how quiet the right got about the caravan now that the election is over? Trumps gone back to to his anti press and election fraud spiel.. 

And protests in the streets over Trumps potentially illegal/unconstitutional Acting AG appointment (who, it's obvious, was appointed specifically to stymie the Mueller investigation).

I just.....I honestly don't know how the Repubs can continue on their constant rationalization. He's making them look like fools.

And that, he can only keep him as interim for 70 days, beyond that he needs senate confirmation. Mueller is apparently finalizing his report. This is too much of a coincidence.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

And just a day after the election we have another mass shooting by a psychotic white guy, but brown people are our biggest threat so says Trump. Notice how quiet the right got about the caravan now that the election is over? Trumps gone back to to his anti press and election fraud spiel.. 

Having thousands of immigrants  possibly come into our country illegally has nothing to do with their skin color nor does a mentally ill nutjob.  Not always about race. 

Coming here to seek political asylum is not illegal. If you really think it has nothing to do with race i have a few bridges for sale you might be interested in.

If someone wants asylum they need to apply for asylum, not simply jump the fence.

There's a difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal one.

It has everything to do with following the law or breaking the law.

[pilferk]

Having thousands of immigrants  possibly come into our country illegally has nothing to do with their skin color nor does a mentally ill nutjob.  Not always about race. 

Fake. News.

First off, they're a month or more away.  It's almost like saying Canada is about to invade Texas, right now.  The urgency is a false flag.

Second, they're not trying to come here illegally.  They plan to seek asylum.  Which is LEGAL.

Third, their numbers dwindle every day.

Fourth, that last caravan of THOUSANDS in April that you all went on and on about? Yeah, it ended up being about 1000 people when it reached the border.  Guess how many of them tried to illegally cross the border. LESS THAN 12.  And the regular border patrol handled all of that, and the asylum requests, without needing 5k troops to do the paperwork for them (which is all they can do...US troops can not engage in law enforcement actions on US soil).

It was a tactic to rouse the rabble, get Repubs all in a lather, so they would go out and vote because Republican engagment/enthusiasm was in the toilet.  And it looks like it worked, to some extent.  But...I doubt you'll hear mention of it again unless the President needs a political distraction.

Sir, you've been had. Again.

[pilferk]

Floriduh once again proving that we are incompetent when it comes to elections.   

 
The state that brought you the 2000 presidential recount will try to outdo itself in ’18
https://www.bradenton.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article221379125.html

Florida teacher finds ‘provisional ballot box’ in storage area
https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/florida-teacher-finds-provisional-ballot-box-in-storage-area/


Woman in Minnesota Receives Broward County Ballot in the Mail
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/woman-in-minnesota-receives-broward-county-ballot-in-the-mail/

They suck, for sure.

Note: That's Detzner and Scott's purview, you know.  The Repubs oversee the election system, and have pretty much since 2000.  And it still sucks.

Having said that: It's a democracy.  I know YOU'RE not saying all votes shouldn't be counted, but Trump and Scott are.

Count. every. vote.

That's how it works.  If the system sucks so bad it makes that process super slow, blame the people in charge of the overall system, and hold them accountable by voting them out of office.

[pilferk]

If someone wants asylum they need to apply for asylum, not simply jump the fence.

There's a difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal one.

It has everything to do with following the law or breaking the law.

And....those in the caravan have voiced their intent to do just that.  Not to jump the fence.  I know the conservative media brushes by that piece of info, because it's inconvenient (as it was back in April) but it's the case.

Again, last April, there were less than a dozen attempted illegal crossings from members of THAT caravan.

You're being sold a bill of goods that just isn't true.

Applying for asylum is done AT THE BORDER, usually.  Not before.  It's not like applying for a visa.

NOW, Trump is trying to force all asylum seekers to do that via ports of call, but whether that EO is constitutional/legal is being challenged.  Until that challenge is done....they're doing what is LEGALLY ALLOWED for the to do.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Floriduh once again proving that we are incompetent when it comes to elections.   

 
The state that brought you the 2000 presidential recount will try to outdo itself in ’18
https://www.bradenton.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article221379125.html

Florida teacher finds ‘provisional ballot box’ in storage area
https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/florida-teacher-finds-provisional-ballot-box-in-storage-area/


Woman in Minnesota Receives Broward County Ballot in the Mail
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/woman-in-minnesota-receives-broward-county-ballot-in-the-mail/

They suck, for sure.

Note: That's the Detzner and Scott's purview, you know.  The Repubs oversee the election system, and have pretty much since 2000.  And it still sucks.

Having said that: It's a democracy.  I know YOU'RE not saying all votes shouldn't be counted, but Trump and Scott are.

Count. every. vote.

That's how it works.  If the system sucks so bad it makes that process super slow, blame the people in charge of the overall system, and hold them accountable by voting them out of office.

Count every real votest and don't count the made up ones. Broward Co supervisor of elections has a history of corruption. Ballots are showing up in private vehicles and they seem to be finding democratic votes ,  doesn't that seem odd?

[pilferk]

Count every real votest and don't count the made up ones. Broward Co supervisor of elections has a history of corruption. Ballots are showing up in private vehicles and they seem to be finding democratic votes ,  doesn't that seem odd?

Proof that they're made up and showing up in private vehicles?  I mean, if you're talking about the teacher who found a box of provisionals AT A POLLING PLACE, that was mistakenly put in a closet during clean up...I'd suggest you take that little mixup up with the polling chief at the polling place.  Because it's their responsibility to make sure shit like that doesn't happen. Their mistake, however, shouldn't disenfranchise the voters who cast those ballots. It has all the markings and signatures to validate it's legitimacy...you count them.

I know what the conspiracy theory is, but I haven't seen anything concrete provided that shows that votes are being fabricated.  And ACTUAL voter fraud is EXCEEDINGLY rare in the US.  That's a pretty serious allegation, and it seems like it should be accompanied by some proof/evidence and not just cries of "BUT THEY TOLD ME I WON ON TUESDAY"!!! and "EVIL LEFTISTS ARE STEALING THE ELECTION"!!!! because they don't like the results that are coming in. 

I have to say, though, this was pretty much what I expected the playbook to be from the Repub leadership had they lost on Tuesday, so seeing it now isn't really surprising.  Its just a bit of a delayed reaction.

The fact is: Broward has been slow to fully count in EVERY election since 2000.  Their system sucks for such a populace county, which you can 100% blame on the state.

And it's a largely democratic county.  So it's not really a surprise when the votes they are slow to count skew democratic.

And the Broward County supervisor has her job because the Repubs let her keep it.  So, again, if that's your issue, I'd take it up with your Republican leadership. If your point is that every politician who has proven corrupt, committed fraud, or malfezence in the past should be removed from office...I agree with you.   But it's not my state (though I do pay taxes to them).  Maybe you should ask Scott and Dezner why she still has a job?  As an aside: Wasn't Scott accused of Medicare Fraud?

Every vote counts.  It's what makes us all equal in this country.  So, unless you can prove the vote is made up (and, FYI, this isn't MY opinion, it's the SC's opinion on voting rights), beyond a shadow of a doubt, then...yeah...count it.

And if things go crazy, you challenge in court (like they did in 2000) and every vote that gets challenged can be reviewed by an independent panel (again). 

This isn't the presidency.  The urgency of 2000 isn't there.  With or without Florida, Repubs hold their majority (even if AZ goes blue) in the Senate and can conduct regular business.

So, I'll say it again: Count. Every. Vote.

I don't think Nelson has enough outstanding votes, at this point, to catch up.  Either way, it's going to a manual recount anyway.  But for constitutional sake...let it play out the way it's supposed to.

Stopping those vote counts not only looks bad for the Repubs, it is voter supression and it's illegal.

[pilferk]

FYI: Florida Law Enforcement apparently found no accusations of voter fraud, vote manipulation, or any sort of improper handling of votes.  They have elected to not open an investigation at this time.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2018/11/09/after-scott-requested-investigation-law-enforcement-says-no-voter-fraud-allegations-found-690552

After the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said Thursday night it would investigate two local election officials at the request of Gov. Rick Scott, the agency now says that because no voter fraud allegations were made, it is no longer pursuing an investigation.

“What changed is that this morning we spoke with the Department of State and they indicated they had no criminal allegations of fraud,” FDLE spokesperson Gretl Plessinger told POLITICO in an email. “So, after speaking to them, we offered our assistance in the event any criminal allegations are identified.”

[Dr. Blutarsky]

This is where I saw the accusation of ballots being transported in private vehicles.  Dont know how to post a twitter link on here but this is the copy and paste version.  Its definitely worth looking into.



Marco Rubio
✔
@marcorubio

This video,posted by an Independent Cong candidate in 18 (who was endorsed by Bernie Sanders in 16) purports to show BrowardCounty ballots being transported from polling places in private cars.

Has anyone in local media looked into this claim or asked elections dept about it?
Tim Canova
✔
@Tim_Canova

Caught On Video: Concerned citizen sees ballots being transported in private vehicles & transferred to rented truck on Election night. This violates all chain of custody requirements for paper ballots. Were the ballots destroyed & replaced by set of fake ballots? Investigate now!

[pilferk]

This is where I saw the accusation of ballots being transported in private vehicles.  Dont know how to post a twitter link on here but this is the copy and paste version.



Marco Rubio
✔
@marcorubio

This video,posted by an Independent Cong candidate in 18 (who was endorsed by Bernie Sanders in 16) purports to show BrowardCounty ballots being transported from polling places in private cars.

Has anyone in local media looked into this claim or asked elections dept about it?
Tim Canova
✔
@Tim_Canova

Caught On Video: Concerned citizen sees ballots being transported in private vehicles & transferred to rented truck on Election night. This violates all chain of custody requirements for paper ballots. Were the ballots destroyed & replaced by set of fake ballots? Investigate now!

Yeah, a random twitter accusation doesnt hold enough water for me.  Especially in light of what fdle has since said. There is way too much bullshit tweeted out to take it seriously.

Theres also reportedly security footage of mail trucks, loaded with ballots, sitting at a usps lot that were purposefully not delivered in a dem district til after 7 pm so they wouldnt be counted.

All bs until someone actually reputable reports it.

And no, Marco Rubio is not credible in this case.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Whatever your political leanings, it is a damn shame it has come to this again. 65 of the 67 FL counties had no problems with voting.  But yet again, Broward and Palm Beach find a way to screw it up.


Judge Rules In Gov. Scott’s Favor In Broward Elections Records Request

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/11/09/judge-rules-in-gov-scotts-favor-in-broward-elections-records-request/

WASHINGTON (CBSMiami/NSF) – A Broward judge has ruled in favor of Gov. Rick Scott and says Broward Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes must “allow immediate” viewing and copying of records that have been requested.
The judge added that it must be completed by 7 p.m.

The lawsuit in Broward filed against Snipes claimed that her office was withholding crucial voter information and has blocked access to the office. At the emergency hearing on Friday, Scott’s lawyers said this was a “simple” case about access to Broward ballots. It’s not about how votes are counted or inspecting ballots.

“This information Supervisor of Elections should have already compiled and saved,” he added, “It should take 10 minutes to do.”
An attorney for Snipes said she, “never told them she wouldn’t provide the information.” Snipe’s attorney noted that the records request was made just 26 hours before and the information requested was “fundamental to count the vote.”

Snipes attorney added that the Scott didn’t believe Snipes was moving fast enough to finish the vote tabulation.

Scott has filed a second lawsuit against Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Susan Bucher, accuses her of refusing to allow Scott’s representatives to personally witness the ballot counting. The suit also accuses Bucher of keeping the county canvassing board from performing its duties