Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[tim_m]

Exactly. Specifically, the insane amount on conspiracies they wound around George Soros makes an explicit display of their direct responsibility.

So far, every person who has received a package has been DIRECTLY mentioned by Trump in a personal attack. Even (if the newest reports are true) De Niro.

And yet, it's the Dems and the Media who have to tone it down.  I mean, Trump clearly, at his rally last night, is taking his own advice (NOT).

What drives me nuts is that the GOP can successfully spin a narrative about Dems being mobs based on peaceful protests of an accused sexual predator being elected to the head of the judicial branch, but Democrats can't make a crisis out of the attempted MURDER of 10 major democratic figures. The establishment of the party needs to be replaced, plain and simple. A party leader who can't make a mountain out of a mountain is not doing one of his most basic job duties.

I agree completely, it is time to start burning the old man boys club to the fucking ground. Lets get some younger people in. Lets get more women in there. I hope women come out in droves and start voting these assholes out.

[pilferk]

What drives me nuts is that the GOP can successfully spin a narrative about Dems being mobs based on peaceful protests of an accused sexual predator being elected to the head of the judicial branch, but Democrats can't make a crisis out of the attempted MURDER of 10 major democratic figures. The establishment of the party needs to be replaced, plain and simple. A party leader who can't make a mountain out of a mountain is not doing one of his most basic job duties.

The dems have been TERRIBLE at message for awhile now.  Obama was better, but he seems to be the only one in the whole party that can manage it.

PART of that is they are still playing by the "old" rules.

The other part is....who is the party leader right now?  The Repubs have the cheeto in chief with a bully pulpit who is completely willing to say anything (true or not) to whip up a crisis (even when it isn't really one).  Dems don't have anyone like that in the party right now.

The one thing Repubs are really good at is message, even if its based on complete bullshit.  Notice the "mob" message has now become the de facto groupthing talking point.  And the migrant caravan has been turned into the boogeyman by the entire party.  Neither of those things are actually "things", but the entire Republican political machine is talking about them.  Hell, even the thing that's hurting them right now (the pre-existing condition lie) stems from the entire party parroting the same obvious lie by every candidate.

You don't get that kind of continuity of message from Dems. Ever.  Even when it's based on fact.  They can't even manage a contiguous message calling out Repubs for those lies mentioned above weeks before an election.

[pilferk]

Anyone else think that maybe the point of these bombs were to not go off or at the very least the maker is incompetent? I mean think about it 10 bombs so far, not one detonation. The odds of that can't be very high. As for who might be behind it, just based on the labels it would appear the person is trying to make it seem they are from democrats. One would think if a democrat is behind this they wouldn't make the from label say Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

Its hard to tell.  They were all intercepted before they were actually opened, so that's a big part of it.  Law Enforcement is trained to deal with this stuff so they DON'T go off.

They may have been designed not to explode, so they just intimidate the victims.  But still...

And it looks like they may have all originated out of a post office in Southern Florida.

I also agree: Everything we ACTUALLY know about these packages makes it unlikely this was a democrat.  Is it impossible? No.  Is it the scenario that logic jumps to first? No. No way.  Not unless you have a burning need to rationalize and defend something for reasons of political bias.

On a different note, perhaps we should start talking about the midterms. Early voting is underway in many states. I don't know about turnout around the country, but here in Texas through Wednesday it is HUGE. I mean presidential year levels. So far it is  just slightly behind 2016. However, it is blowing the 2014 midterms away. We are seeing anywhere from 5-12% increase over 2014. Which i think is great news. This democracy thing works best when we actually participate.

It's going to be interesting.

I suspect Dems will take the house back...but by how much is a big question.  The Repubs are doing a good job of rousing the rabble with lies (about fake tax cuts) and fake crisis (dem mobs and asylum caravans) to try to SCARE them to the polls.  Repubs tend to turn out in higher numbers for midterms, but this is a VERY different cycle than normal.

I still think the Senate is a lost cause this election.  Conditions were just terrible going in, in terms of which states had Senate elections this term.  Most were already held by dems, and loss opportunites far outweighed pickup opportunites.  I think best case scenario is Dems pick up one seat (and I think that's a long shot) and worst case is they lose 3 seats.  I suspect what actually happens is they stay about even or lose one.  But we'll see.

What IS interesting is that it looks like Dems might pick up a BUNCH of governors seats.  That's interesting for a bunch of reasons and it, too, has some Senate implications.

[tim_m]

Its hard to tell.  They were all intercepted before they were actually opened, so that's a big part of it.  Law Enforcement is trained to deal with this stuff so they DON'T go off.

They may have been designed not to explode, so they just intimidate the victims.  But still...

And it looks like they may have all originated out of a post office in Southern Florida.

I also agree: Everything we ACTUALLY know about these packages makes it unlikely this was a democrat.  Is it impossible? No.  Is it the scenario that logic jumps to first? No. No way.  Not unless you have a burning need to rationalize and defend something for reasons of political bias.

Very true, it still does seem quite unlikely not one would detonate.

Yeah that seems to be the latest info we have. No new packages though thankfully.

[tim_m]

It's going to be interesting.

I suspect Dems will take the house back...but by how much is a big question.  The Repubs are doing a good job of rousing the rabble with lies (about fake tax cuts) and fake crisis (dem mobs and asylum caravans) to try to SCARE them to the polls.  Repubs tend to turn out in higher numbers for midterms, but this is a VERY different cycle than normal.

I still think the Senate is a lost cause this election.  Conditions were just terrible going in, in terms of which states had Senate elections this term.  Most were already held by dems, and loss opportunites far outweighed pickup opportunites.  I think best case scenario is Dems pick up one seat (and I think that's a long shot) and worst case is they lose 3 seats.  I suspect what actually happens is they stay about even or lose one.  But we'll see.

What IS interesting is that it looks like Dems might pick up a BUNCH of governors seats.  That's interesting for a bunch of reasons and it, too, has some Senate implications

It is definitely going to be interesting. I am encouraged by the early numbers i am hearing here in Texas and around the country. If these numbers continue no matter what side you are on that is a good thing. We should ALL be involved. The fact that we are seeing early numbers similar to early numbers in 2016 is a good thing. Some even think we could see turnout that rivals 1966 or even 1914. The place i went to said they had 1200 on day one and expected even more on day two. Also encouraging i saw a lot of women. They started coming in droves while i was in line waiting.

I think you are right about the Senate. Seems like it could break 52-48 but we will see. I don't trust polls like i used to cause people don't answer unknown numbers, especially younger people. I saw a good number of young women at my polling place. The House i see no scenario we don't take it. In recent polls i do see some Republican senate race leads narrowing though. In Texas, the latest poll shows Cruz with only 5 point lead. Can O'Rourke make that up in 11 days? We will see. That's one where i wonder about the polling. A lot of his supporters are my age and younger and we don't answer unknown numbers.

Yes, that is what the numbers tell us, hopefully its accurate. It looks like Gillium will win in Florida. I would love to see the woman in Georgia become governor and become the states first black governor.

[tim_m]

Package 11 found in Florida addressed to Cory Booker.

[tim_m]

And another being investigated at NYC facility.

[tim_m]

12th package sent to James Clapper.

[DeN]

I don't think these suspicious packages were meant to explode by any means, they were sent to scare
people with a clear message : "you have the right to vote democrat...but if you do, remember of what
we can do to powerful opponents, now imagine what we could do to common people like you"

[tim_m]

And the first thing the president says about the new  bombs? "Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this 'Bomb' stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows - news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!" 

[LunsJail]

Someone in Florida has been arrested.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say this wasn't the sharpest knife sending these.

[pilferk]

Definitely seems like a democrat: 

Mail bombing suspect identified as 56-year-old Florida man Cesar Sayoc Jr.

He was taken into custody after police raided a home in the town of Plantation, Florida.

Sayoc's van had dozens of pictures of Trump and pro-Trump statements covering almost every window.

The suspect is a registered Republican, according to records.

I'm very glad they got the guy (presumably) and I hope there are no more packages out there (If I were Stormy Daniels or Avenatti, for example, I'd be VERY careful with my mail for the next week or so).

But, now that we've got some insight, I think we can safely say: This guys mental illness/obsession was certainly enabled/enhanced by Trump's rhetoric.  And though I'm sure the conservatives will be loathe to admit it, he deserves some of the burden here.  Not the lions share. Not most of it.  There are always going to be crazies out there.  But this isn't some guy reading catcher in the rye and thinking Holden is actually speaking to him.  This is someone attacking people Trump is attacking.  People he is identifying as enemies of the state.  This guy probably fancies himself a patriot.....and given Trumps rhetoric, I'm not shocked by that.

Edit: Another package. This one sent to Senator Kamella Harris found in Sacremento, CA.

[tim_m]

So we have a native American Trumper sending bombs to Trump political foes. That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one. When did we step into the twilight zone.

[tim_m]

So Trump just said he'd probably pass on calling the targets of the bombs. There is something seriously wrong with this man.

[PermissionToLand]

What drives me nuts is that the GOP can successfully spin a narrative about Dems being mobs based on peaceful protests of an accused sexual predator being elected to the head of the judicial branch, but Democrats can't make a crisis out of the attempted MURDER of 10 major democratic figures. The establishment of the party needs to be replaced, plain and simple. A party leader who can't make a mountain out of a mountain is not doing one of his most basic job duties.

The dems have been TERRIBLE at message for awhile now.  Obama was better, but he seems to be the only one in the whole party that can manage it.

PART of that is they are still playing by the "old" rules.

The other part is....who is the party leader right now?  The Repubs have the cheeto in chief with a bully pulpit who is completely willing to say anything (true or not) to whip up a crisis (even when it isn't really one).  Dems don't have anyone like that in the party right now.

The one thing Repubs are really good at is message, even if its based on complete bullshit.  Notice the "mob" message has now become the de facto groupthing talking point.  And the migrant caravan has been turned into the boogeyman by the entire party.  Neither of those things are actually "things", but the entire Republican political machine is talking about them.  Hell, even the thing that's hurting them right now (the pre-existing condition lie) stems from the entire party parroting the same obvious lie by every candidate.

You don't get that kind of continuity of message from Dems. Ever.  Even when it's based on fact.  They can't even manage a contiguous message calling out Repubs for those lies mentioned above weeks before an election.

That's just it; the GOP has given them the template. It's been sitting in their lap for decades and they still haven't realized it. Not only that, it's the most simple plan imaginable: repeat simplistic talking points until you are blue in the face. Drive it into the thick skulls of average Americans until it can only have finally sunk in.

[tim_m]

Just reading about the bomber, this guy is seriously a whole new level of crazy.

[LunsJail]

What drives me nuts is that the GOP can successfully spin a narrative about Dems being mobs based on peaceful protests of an accused sexual predator being elected to the head of the judicial branch, but Democrats can't make a crisis out of the attempted MURDER of 10 major democratic figures. The establishment of the party needs to be replaced, plain and simple. A party leader who can't make a mountain out of a mountain is not doing one of his most basic job duties.

The dems have been TERRIBLE at message for awhile now.  Obama was better, but he seems to be the only one in the whole party that can manage it.

PART of that is they are still playing by the "old" rules.

The other part is....who is the party leader right now?  The Repubs have the cheeto in chief with a bully pulpit who is completely willing to say anything (true or not) to whip up a crisis (even when it isn't really one).  Dems don't have anyone like that in the party right now.

The one thing Repubs are really good at is message, even if its based on complete bullshit.  Notice the "mob" message has now become the de facto groupthing talking point.  And the migrant caravan has been turned into the boogeyman by the entire party.  Neither of those things are actually "things", but the entire Republican political machine is talking about them.  Hell, even the thing that's hurting them right now (the pre-existing condition lie) stems from the entire party parroting the same obvious lie by every candidate.

You don't get that kind of continuity of message from Dems. Ever.  Even when it's based on fact.  They can't even manage a contiguous message calling out Repubs for those lies mentioned above weeks before an election.

That's just it; the GOP has given them the template. It's been sitting in their lap for decades and they still haven't realized it. Not only that, it's the most simple plan imaginable: repeat simplistic talking points until you are blue in the face. Drive it into the thick skulls of average Americans until it can only have finally sunk in.

All good points.  It's one reason Hillary lost to Trump.  He boiled his message down to 3 talking points that, while ridiculous (the wall), they were simple to understand.  Hillary drove me crazy during the debates when she kept telling people to refer to HillaryClinton.com to read her plan.  Um......no Hillary, tell us what you want to do.  That's why I'm watching the debate!

[pilferk]

We are airlifting troops to the border, to provide logistics support (because anything else is illegal/unconstitutional), for a caravan that is as far from our southern border as North Dakota is.

But its not all a political scheme to try to scare repubs into voting in a week.

The last caravan that got the repubs in a kerfluffle back in april (go ahead, revisit the posts in this thread on the subject) resulted in less than a dozen attempted illegal crossings...all of which were caught using regular resources.

Many more applied for asylum....which is perfectly legal.

Lies, spin, and more lies.

[PermissionToLand]

Well, America proves it's ... America. Yet again. Sure, Dems picked up the House, but in any rational society, this would have been a blue tsunami.

A damning indictment of this country's true nature.

[ITARocker]

Well, America proves it's ... America. Yet again. Sure, Dems picked up the House, but in any rational society, this would have been a blue tsunami.

A damning indictment of this country's true nature.

Overall the evil devil racist sexist misogynist Trump still holding up well The blue wave looks like a warm shower