Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[DeN]

Birds of a feather flock together...

[GypsySoul]

The simple turn of a phase and someone in now subjected to homosexual jokes??

This shows what's wrong with the world.   

[jarmo]

The simple turn of a phase and someone in now subjected to homosexual jokes??

This shows what's wrong with the world.  

Of course. Easiest joke to make.



What I find more interesting is that after he says any of these things, he's always quick to point out how the media will report what he just said. It's obvious he needs to be idolized and he makes fun of the free media for not blindly idolizing everything he says or does.





/jarmo

[chineseblues]

The simple turn of a phase and someone in now subjected to homosexual jokes??

This shows what's wrong with the world.   

How many straight men do you see saying they "fell in love" with another man?

Anyway Gypsy you really need to lighten up,  at least I didn't say he had blood coming out of his where ever...

[sandman]

i'm assuming the comment I bolded above is sarcasm; therefore, I will not respond to that comment. is this a correct assumption?

obviously, we want to work with our allies. As Trump has proven, he even wants to work with those that are not considered allies. he has at least made an effort with NK. he has been credited by many in that region. I think he has worked well with many foreign leaders. stating his view that certain situations are not favorable to the US does not alienate us. we continue to work with leaders around the globe.

No, not sarcasm. But I see people defend his behavior all the time. I don't get it.

So many things have happened in the last two to three years that would've been unbelievable when I was a kid.

I see people quoting RT articles as if they were the absolute truth. They don't seem to realize that if you had posted and quoted Soviet news in the 1980s, people would've laughed at you!

I think Trump's comments about the media were a little too strong.

Little too strong would be something like "They write a lot of things that I don'a agree with and therefore I don't support those outlets".

Do you know what the enemies of the people are? For example ultra right wing fanatics who want to remove democracy. That's a real enemy. Or someone who's prepared to kill innocent people because they don't share their beliefs.

however, most of our journalists have become extremely partisan. it is difficult to find truly non-partisan coverage. we used to be able to count on the media to investigate politicians and bring us the truth. but they have been exposed. and many have gone all in for their side and will never provide insights that make their side look bad.

a good example is all the journalists that refused to report on children being separated at the border under Obama. they did not want bad press for their golden child. so they didn't make a big deal about it. as a result, it continued for years. if they had raised the issue, it could have been fixed in 2014. then it would have stopped and not occurred since then. but their partisanship took precedence over their responsibilities as journalists. as a result, children continued to be put in cages and suffer for several more years. does that make some in the press enemies of the people? maybe that language is too harsh for you, but I think we all can admit there is a serious problem.  

Media has always been that way.

You're saying that Fox News were huge Obama supporters? Not really....

There's nothing new in this. There's always been left, liberal, conservative etc media.

But now we have all these web sites which give voices to people who, in the past, no one would've paid attention to. Now they're suddenly the standard of truth.




Also, why is Trump still doing these appearances? Is there a presidential campaign that's been going on since 2016 that I'm not aware of? 






/jarmo

ok, so when you said:

"if you voted for this government, you think it's ethical to lie"

you were not being sarcastic. that's what you actually believe. and well, Jarmo, i'll just ask you this. do you think the people that voted for Hillary think it's ethical to cheat? do you think people that voted for Hillary think it's ethical to start unnecessary wars and kill innocent people and pursue regime change and nation building?

when you go to vote, you typically have 2 choices. and I'm surprised that you do not understand this, but it's very likely people do not agree 100% with either candidate.

in 2016, many americans did not like either candidate at all. many liberals did not want to vote for hillary. there were countless stories about americans having to choose the lesser of 2 evils. i have many liberal friends, and they all said something to the effect of "i will hold my nose when i push the button for Hillary."  

so if you did not like either candidate, you could choose not to vote, which I am a huge proponent of. or you pick the one that your beliefs more closely align with, or that you trust the most, or whatever.

but the problem today, is that people like you, Jarmo, assume the worst about people who vote a different way than you would, or have different beliefs than you. that is unfortunate.

that also seems out of character for you. I've never seen you attack fellow poster's character before and baselessly accuse other members of your forum of being unethical. that's not who you are. so i take this as another example of trump derangement syndrome.    

and this is what lifelong politicians and the media want. they want us divided. sadly, too many people make it easy for them. and in reality, we probably agree on more than we disagree.

[jarmo]

ok, so when you said:

"if you voted for this government, you think it's ethical to lie"

you were not being sarcastic. that's what you actually believe. and well, Jarmo, i'll just ask you this. do you think the people that voted for Hillary think it's ethical to cheat? do you think people that voted for Hillary think it's ethical to start unnecessary wars and kill innocent people and pursue regime change and nation building?

when you go to vote, you typically have 2 choices. and I'm surprised that you do not understand this, but it's very likely people do not agree 100% with either candidate.

in 2016, many americans did not like either candidate at all. many liberals did not want to vote for hillary. there were countless stories about americans having to choose the lesser of 2 evils. i have many liberal friends, and they all said something to the effect of "i will hold my nose when i push the button for Hillary."  

so if you did not like either candidate, you could choose not to vote, which I am a huge proponent of. or you pick the one that your beliefs more closely align with, or that you trust the most, or whatever.

but the problem today, is that people like you, Jarmo, assume the worst about people who vote a different way than you would, or have different beliefs than you. that is unfortunate.

that also seems out of character for you. I've never seen you attack fellow poster's character before and baselessly accuse other members of your forum of being unethical. that's not who you are. so i take this as another example of trump derangement syndrome.    

Why are you bringing up Hillary? Does it make you feel better?


If you voted for someone and can't say what they've done is wrong, because you voted for the person, then you must be supporting that behavior. Simple as that.

So I'm asking you, do you agree with everything your president is doing? Do you think it's ok to lie like he does? Does it set a great example of how a leader should be?

Is it ok to keep going on and on about the word socialism when you know many of the people don't even know what the hell it actually is? Especially since it's being used to scare people.

and this is what lifelong politicians and the media want. they want us divided. sadly, too many people make it easy for them. and in reality, we probably agree on more than we disagree.

Interesting.

How exactly is Trump bringing people together? By pointing out that the media is the enemy of the people? By feeding people fear? By questioning his own government agencies?



I'm aware that many elections are a matter of lesser of two evils. But many times people are able to say that they disagree with someone they voted for. Nowadays it seems like it's not because then you're the enemy! With the media. That is scary!



/jarmo

[sandman]

ok, so when you said:

"if you voted for this government, you think it's ethical to lie"

you were not being sarcastic. that's what you actually believe. and well, Jarmo, i'll just ask you this. do you think the people that voted for Hillary think it's ethical to cheat? do you think people that voted for Hillary think it's ethical to start unnecessary wars and kill innocent people and pursue regime change and nation building?

when you go to vote, you typically have 2 choices. and I'm surprised that you do not understand this, but it's very likely people do not agree 100% with either candidate.

in 2016, many americans did not like either candidate at all. many liberals did not want to vote for hillary. there were countless stories about americans having to choose the lesser of 2 evils. i have many liberal friends, and they all said something to the effect of "i will hold my nose when i push the button for Hillary."  

so if you did not like either candidate, you could choose not to vote, which I am a huge proponent of. or you pick the one that your beliefs more closely align with, or that you trust the most, or whatever.

but the problem today, is that people like you, Jarmo, assume the worst about people who vote a different way than you would, or have different beliefs than you. that is unfortunate.

that also seems out of character for you. I've never seen you attack fellow poster's character before and baselessly accuse other members of your forum of being unethical. that's not who you are. so i take this as another example of trump derangement syndrome.    

Why are you bringing up Hillary? Does it make you feel better?

I think it's 100% obvious why I mentioned Hillary. I used the most recent presidential election to make a point that when you vote, you don't necessarily agree on everything with the person you voted for. I was trying to have a serious back and forth and address some shocking accusations you made against me personally, and other trump supporters. you specifically criticized my character, so I responded to address that.   

you know this, and you know why I brought up Hillary. yet you still have to respond in a childish and petty manner, by asking a pathetic, condescending question.

so essentially, same old shit in these threads. most of the people that post in this thread, act in the same way. which is cool. we're not solving any world problems in here. just a place to pass some free time. so i'll answer your question with the level of maturity it deserves.

YES!!!! I love bringing up Hillary because it reminds you and all the other butt-hurt liberals who the most powerful man in the world is. that win by trump was epic, and the effects of it will be felt for generations. no one can ever take that away.

[jarmo]

Butt-hurt? 

You failed to answer any of the questions, while acting like your feelings were hurt. So who's butt-hurt?


My point still stands. You voted for a person and fail to acknowledge that he's made any bad decisions or acted in a matter that you think is not ok, makes you a supporter of said actions!

We know Hillary lost. This isn't about an election two years ago. It's about now.

We're trying to talk about now, but you keep going back to your epic win in 2016.... That's the problem.

Questioning you about what's happened since is met with "but Hillary..." or "but we won".... That's just silly. Just answer the questions, they're pretty basic.




Here's more: Do you think right wing extremism is bad? Are nazis bad? Yes/No?

What do you think of trade wars that end up hurting farmers so the government has to bail them out? Do you support that kind of politics, and if so, why? Isn't the whole idea of a free market that if your business fails, you need to find something else?



Answer the questions. Don't just focus on one line that's not even important. Even if it makes you feel better!



Edited to add: I don't buy this "But Trump isn't a politician, he's different". Different how? He needs to make deals like any other politician. He's not exactly a common ordinary average Joe. Just like all those politicians people dislike. You can point out how these career politicians have very little in common with the ordinary person, which is true, but neither does Trump. Unless you're a rich person. Then you might have a point. A lot of politicians seems to have lost touch with what they are supposed to do, serve the people instead of serving the interests of a select few....





/jarmo

[sandman]

Butt-hurt? 

You failed to answer any of the questions, while acting like your feelings were hurt. So who's butt-hurt?


My point still stands. You voted for a person and fail to acknowledge that he's made any bad decisions or acted in a matter that you think is not ok, makes you a supporter of said actions!

We know Hillary lost. This isn't about an election two years ago. It's about now.

We're trying to talk about now, but you keep going back to your epic win in 2016.... That's the problem.

Questioning you about what's happened since is met with "but Hillary..." or "but we won".... That's just silly. Just answer the questions, they're pretty basic.




Here's more: Do you think right wing extremism is bad? Are nazis bad? Yes/No?

What do you think of trade wars that end up hurting farmers so the government has to bail them out? Do you support that kind of politics, and if so, why? Isn't the whole idea of a free market that if your business fails, you need to find something else?



Answer the questions. Don't just focus on one line that's not even important. Even if it makes you feel better!



Edited to add: I don't buy this "But Trump isn't a politician, he's different". Different how? He needs to make deals like any other politician. He's not exactly a common ordinary average Joe. Just like all those politicians people dislike. You can point out how these career politicians have very little in common with the ordinary person, which is true, but neither does Trump. Unless you're a rich person. Then you might have a point. A lot of politicians seems to have lost touch with what they are supposed to do, serve the people instead of serving the interests of a select few....

/jarmo

really? so if i don't come in here and condemn something, that means i support them? that's hilarious!!! i'm surprised that you are seriously posting ridiculous comments like this.

I could assume that you support ANTIFA and attacking trump supporters with violence, but i'm not 5 years old.  although with the way you are lecturing me and asking me questions, i am having flashbacks to being scolded by nuns when i was a child.

but yes, i am critical of trump on certain things. and when i feel like mentioning those things in this thread, i do.

[jarmo]

I'm really confused.I don't know what your idea of a discussion is.

Obviously it doesn't involve you taking any kind of stand or share any of what you actually believe in.


I knew you'd bring up Antifa. It was expected.
No, I don't support extremism or violence to prove a point. That didn't feel like it was a big deal to just type those words. Easy.... Maybe it's just me.

Still waiting for YOUR answers! 




/jarmo

[pilferk]

I'm really confused.I don't know what your idea of a discussion is.

Obviously it doesn't involve you taking any kind of stand or share any of what you actually believe in.


I knew you'd bring up Antifa. It was expected.
No, I don't support extremism or violence to prove a point. That didn't feel like it was a big deal to just type those words. Easy.... Maybe it's just me.

Still waiting for YOUR answers! 


/jarmo

I did warn you.

[jarmo]

Yeah, I know.

I always find it somewhat amusing to be called condescending when in reality I don't recall claiming to be right or knowing better than anyone else.

I just don't understand certain things, or can't relate to certain ways of thinking. And when asking for some explanations, there's none to be had!



There's all these ideas about "elitist liberals" and whatnot. Sure, some people are like that. Others just can't understand what the hell makes people do the things they do.

Meanwhile, wasn't conservatism about elitism to begin with?





/jarmo

[pilferk]

Yeah, I know.

I always find it somewhat amusing to be called condescending when in reality I don't recall claiming to be right or knowing better than anyone else.

With a LOT of the Trumpers, "condescending" is asking questions, asking for factual basis, or talking to them like you have a 8th grade education. For some reason, multi-syllable words really seem to get under their skin (sandman and the Senator both complain about this kind of stuff, frequently, here...if it's more than 4 or 5 lines, they seem to be offended by it).  They are, literally, the anti-intellectuals who want to be able to cling to "alternate facts".  It is what it is.

It's also ironic when someone spends paragraphs bemoaning how the media is trying to divide us...and then goes into a rah rah ditto head, sports themed, cheer fest over their candidate and lording it over his "butt hurt opponents".  Symptomatic of (and I would say largely perpetuating) exactly what they just railed against.

The hypocrisy is not in short supply, I promise you that.

I just don't understand certain things, or can't relate to certain ways of thinking. And when asking for some explanations, there's none to be had!

Yup.

I mean, I wish I could tell you different, but that's the modus operandi.  Run in, spout talking points, yell MAGA, and when asked for data or answers or....anything....you get called a liberal/leftie and instead of answers, you get "whataboutism" and "we won".

As I said, we just don't feed him anymore.  He's not alone in his penchant for acting that way, either.  But....there you have it.

There's all these ideas about "elitist liberals" and whatnot. Sure, some people are like that. Others just can't understand what the hell makes people do the things they do.

Meanwhile, wasn't conservatism about elitism to begin with?

/jarmo

Yeah, back in the 70's and 80's.  When conservative largely meant FISCALLY conservative.

The neocons changed all that.  It started to become, once Clinton balanced the budget in the 90's, as much about social conservatism (which is now trending more toward nationalism) as it has been about fiscal conservatism.

Now, the Republican party has an odd duality: It's Old, rich, white men (and women, but in lesser amounts) and young, uneducated (edit: undereducated would probably be a better term. HS diplomas at best, no college), white men and women. 

There are certainly exceptions, but that's the basic demographics of the party, in bulk.

So NOW, the "elitism" is applied to those who have educations, depend on data, etc.  Because, you know, damn your knowledge and experience and information that shows things contrary to the way I want to believe things are/should be....or the way they were 40 or 50 years ago.

Anyway, none of this is going to answer any of your questions any more than he has.

It'll just make you wonder WTF is going on over here on this side of the ocean.  And that...I can't answer.

[sandman]

I'm really confused.I don't know what your idea of a discussion is.

Obviously it doesn't involve you taking any kind of stand or share any of what you actually believe in.


I knew you'd bring up Antifa. It was expected.
No, I don't support extremism or violence to prove a point. That didn't feel like it was a big deal to just type those words. Easy.... Maybe it's just me.

Still waiting for YOUR answers! 




/jarmo

that's the difference between you and me. I don't assume you support the ugly, extreme aspects of the left. I would never even ask you if you support ANTIFA. cause that implies that I think there's a chance that you do. but I have enough respect for you as a fellow posted in this forum, that I am not even going to think that you may support a terrorist group like ANTIFA.

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

Jarmo - I want you to read that again, so here you go....

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

it's disgusting to me that you actually believe there is a chance I support nazis.

we were having a fine discussion. I was sharing my thoughts on trump, but as is usually the case in this thread, one side starts making negative accusations of the other side. rather than both sides showing respect and considering other points of view. it's been like this for years. it is what it is. some people just can't help themselves.

[sandman]

Yeah, I know.

I always find it somewhat amusing to be called condescending when in reality I don't recall claiming to be right or knowing better than anyone else.

With a LOT of the Trumpers, "condescending" is asking questions, asking for factual basis, or talking to them like you have a 8th grade education. For some reason, multi-syllable words really seem to get under their skin (sandman and the Senator both complain about this kind of stuff, frequently, here...if it's more than 4 or 5 lines, they seem to be offended by it).  They are, literally, the anti-intellectuals who want to be able to cling to "alternate facts".  It is what it is.

Hey Taxman - thanks for your unprovoked comments about me and Senator B.

I think there are some people in this thread that have not heard how smart you are. please remind us.

[jarmo]

that's the difference between you and me. I don't assume you support the ugly, extreme aspects of the left. I would never even ask you if you support ANTIFA. cause that implies that I think there's a chance that you do. but I have enough respect for you as a fellow posted in this forum, that I am not even going to think that you may support a terrorist group like ANTIFA.

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

Jarmo - I want you to read that again, so here you go....

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

it's disgusting to me that you actually believe there is a chance I support nazis.

we were having a fine discussion. I was sharing my thoughts on trump, but as is usually the case in this thread, one side starts making negative accusations of the other side. rather than both sides showing respect and considering other points of view. it's been like this for years. it is what it is. some people just can't help themselves.

Do you know WHY I asked? Because when a right wing extremist drove into protestors, the guy you voted for didn't really wanna say anything bad about those extremists....

I don't know why it's so difficult to say it.

Fine, it's offensive to you. That's your opinion. Personally I think it's a matter of taking a stance against something horrible.
You think it's offensive to be asked to take a stance against right wing extremists. Fine. I don't really agree considering the world we live in where some even think nazis are socialists....


For the record, I never claimed I believed you supported them. I just wanted you to come out and say it. Instead of dancing around it like a certain leader....


What you label accusations is just someone looking for answers from people who support a politician (yes I called him the P-word) that he can't understand.


You mentioned ethics earlier. And I told you that, in my opinion, if someone voted for a person and has no issues with what's been said/done, then they obviously must share those ideals. Ideals such as the conspiracy theory that Obama isn't a citizen of the USA. Or that there is such a thing as an "alternative fact".

In addition, the person who was going on and on about that birth certificate conspiracy theory sure likes to keep certain things about himself private... Ethics?





/jarmo
 

[tim_m]

For instance, his tax returns. Where are they? He promised during the campaign he'd release them. He promised to divest from his business. He has not. A direct violation of the emoulent clause.

[PermissionToLand]

What those 2 do advocate is higher taxes and more government control over people's lives in general.  Ever known the government to run anything efficiently?

"We are the richest country in the world so I deserve to have ( insert entitlement here)".   

Do you not even hear how incredibly simplistic you are making economic policy, one of the most complex things in the world, out to be?

And the government runs healthcare much more effectively, as seen in countless countries. You realize that by claiming government cannot run anything effectively, you are taking an extremist position, right? Most reasonable intellectuals on either side will admit that government and private enterprise both have certain things they do better than the other, and to some extent, need each other in order to balance things out.

"I am an American so I deserve to have the entitlement of freedom of speech". "I am an American so I deserve to have the entitlement of bearing arms". Do you see the massive flaw in your argument there?

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

Jarmo - I want you to read that again, so here you go....

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

Then stop carrying water for the guy who says there are good Nazis and can't condemn them? And stop supporting a party which repeats white supremacist talking points word-for-word? https://splinternews.com/tucker-carlsons-racist-dog-whistle-of-the-night-is-whit-1829454231

That was Jarmo's whole point; that you cannot condemn Trump or any of the right's excesses. By actively avoiding even addressing them, much less condemning, you are being an enabler of their actions.

Let me repeat that for you:

By actively avoiding even addressing them, much less condemning, you are being an enabler of their actions.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

What those 2 do advocate is higher taxes and more government control over people's lives in general.  Ever known the government to run anything efficiently?

"We are the richest country in the world so I deserve to have ( insert entitlement here)".   

Do you not even hear how incredibly simplistic you are making economic policy, one of the most complex things in the world, out to be?

And the government runs healthcare much more effectively, as seen in countless countries. You realize that by claiming government cannot run anything effectively, you are taking an extremist position, right? Most reasonable intellectuals on either side will admit that government and private enterprise both have certain things they do better than the other, and to some extent, need each other in order to balance things out.

"I am an American so I deserve to have the entitlement of freedom of speech". "I am an American so I deserve to have the entitlement of bearing arms". Do you see the massive flaw in your argument there?

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

Jarmo - I want you to read that again, so here you go....

when you ask me if I support nazis; that is highly offensive. and I shouldn't have to post in here that I do not.

Then stop carrying water for the guy who says there are good Nazis and can't condemn them? And stop supporting a party which repeats white supremacist talking points word-for-word? https://splinternews.com/tucker-carlsons-racist-dog-whistle-of-the-night-is-whit-1829454231

That was Jarmo's whole point; that you cannot condemn Trump or any of the right's excesses. By actively avoiding even addressing them, much less condemning, you are being an enabler of their actions.

Let me repeat that for you:

By actively avoiding even addressing them, much less condemning, you are being an enabler of their actions.

Ammendments in the constitution are not entitlements, they are rights granted to Americans by the founders.

Ive do work for the government on one of my contracts I have, I see the inefficiency firsthand. Things that happen there would never fly in the private sector. 

[jarmo]

Ive do work for the government on one of my contracts I have, I see the inefficiency firsthand. Things that happen there would never fly in the private sector. 

I have no doubts that there's inefficiency in the government or public sector. Or even in the private sector.... Human nature....

But still, it seems like an extreme way of dealing with it. How abut making them more efficient instead of prohibiting?



Also, sometimes the government is better at speeding things up than the private sector. Just look at something like cars. Laws were passed that car manufacturers had to live by. Otherwise they'd have little interest in making their cars better in certain aspects.




/jarmo