Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[Dr. Blutarsky]

We fund NATO at the highest percentage of GDP and have the largest responsibility, yet Europe is at more risk than we are if war ended up breaking out with Russia.  So I don't see any problem asking other countries to pony up financially.

Trump does not support Putin's proposal to allow his government to interview American officials. So you are not correct there.

Regarding inviting Putin to the White House, he probably wants a do-over of sorts. Better to meet with advisories than not to, but hoping for a tougher stance from Trump 2nd round.

 And WTF does Sycophantic hypocrisy fueled by obvious tribalism, containing obvious double standards and overly dramatic histronics mean?  Seriously??  You are trying too hard to have the appearance that your opinion is more valid than mine. If you copy and paste my sentences with 1000 word rebuttals on how I am so wrong  I wont be shocked.  And Id rather not be dragged into another pissing match with you.  Ill leave it at that....

   

[pilferk]

We fund NATO at the highest percentage of GDP and have the largest responsibility, yet Europe is at more risk than we are if war ended up breaking out with Russia.  So I don't see any problem asking other countries to pony up financially.

NO. WE. DON'T.

This is a fundamentally intellectually dishonest claim. OR it demonstrates a complete misunderstanding on how NATO funding actually works.  You can pick.  For the President, who has been corrected over and over again, it's the first one.

Look up how NATO is actually funded. The specifics.

The claim the President makes misrepresents how it actually works. It's a lie.  A baldface one, at that.  If you'd like me to explain it, in detail, I will, but you tend to get prickly when I do stuff like that (you know, all that intellectual discourse you call pretentious). Either way, what he's saying is patently false....and you're repeating it here.  

GDP, and any % of GDP calculation, and NATO funding are not related at all.

Also, the percentages he quotes, even IN his lies, are grossly wrong,even when considering the thing he's ACTUALLY talking about.

ALSO FYI: The only time Article 5 has ever been invoked was after 9/11....to aid the US. 

Trump does not support Putin's proposal to allow his government to interview American officials. So you are not correct there.

Today.

Yesterday, he was talking about what an intriguing offer was, and said he was considering it. Specifically that bit. And Sanders confrimed it in the press briefing YESTERDAY, when asked about it.

That changed at today's press briefing, which is why I qualified. Today, he's against it (after getting blasted, again, in the press over it, even on Fox). That reversal might ALSO have something to do with the Senate introducing and voting 98-0 on a resolution suggesting that it NOT happen. Maybe.

We'll see what he says, tomorrow.

Regarding inviting Putin to the White House, he probably wants a do-over of sorts. Better to meet with advisories than not to, but hoping for a tougher stance from Trump 2nd round.

So, after having a HORRIFIC performance in Helsinki, and while being roundly criticized for his performance...you make overtures, within hours, to get cozier?

You're back to making excuses, again.

And WTF does Sycophantic hypocrisy fueled by obvious tribalism, containing obvious double standards and overly dramatic histronics mean?  Seriously??  You are trying too hard to have the appearance that your opinion is more valid than mine. If you copy and paste my sentences with 1000 word rebuttals on how I am so wrong  I wont be shocked.  And Id rather not be dragged into another pissing match with you.  Ill leave it at that....

Look it up.

I'm not trying to do any such thing.  I know that you want to minimize the criticism that way to make it sting less, but....it's there for all to read.  You created a massive, hypocritical, double standard, and "someone" pointed it out. 

Keep clutching those pearls.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

  You created a massive, hypocritical, double standard, and "someone" pointed it out. 

Keep clutching those pearls.

Its a message board. Lighten up.

You hate Trump, I get it.  This is pointless. 

[pilferk]

Its a message board. Lighten up.

Ahhh, the old standby. The mantra of those that have truly lost the point.  Right up there with Godwins law.

"It's only the internet...."
"It's just a message board....."
"It's only social media....."

 

It's a thread on politics.  If you don't expect serious discussion.....might I suggest reading Trump's twitter feed, instead?

You hate Trump, I get it.  This is pointless. 

I understand your need to dismiss it as that.  But I'm confident the context helps other readers (if there are any...if not, for posterity) see the difference between "hate", and reasonable, principled, disagreement.  When you are socially progressive and fiscally conservative, this President is LITERALLY the embodiment of the exact opposite spectrum of the political ideology.  And it doesn't help when you've watched/paid attention to this guy (as so many of his supporters have NOT), since the mid 80's, and know he's always been this kind of bullying, schmucky buffoon with shady business practices and a penchant for lying.  Trump is a modern day, less ethical, more narcissistic, less intelligent/intellectually curious, P.T. Barnum.  Always has been, always will be.  That's not hate.  It's just (well documented) history.   I don't think history is being re-written during his presidency...at least not so far. Here's hoping the lightning bolt of the gravitas of the office strikes soon.

FYI: Cute edit on the title/subject to your post, too.  I mean, I suspected you might have a little crush, but....I'm glad you just came out and admitted it.  You should hold out hope, though (we all hold out hope FOR you): Someday, you may get over him. 

Lighten up..right?

[pilferk]

For those interested:

Our ACTUAL NATO annual dues (which are about 22% of their budget....meaning the rest of the alliance pays roughly 78% of the NATO budget): $440 million based on NATO's approximately 2 billion annual budget.

Not that it matters (or is relevant, since it's not how any of this is determined...it's based on population), but that works out to about .002% of GDP (18.57 trillion).

Or roughly $1.33 per year, per person, in the US.

And, to be clear, Trump has not asked for any changes in that cost sharing percentage.  And not one country, in NATO, is delinquent on their cost sharing contributions/dues.

So...no NATO member is "costing tax payers" any money, in the US.  Nobody OWES the US any "back funding".  All that is a lie by this President.

[pilferk]

So, Russia is still trying to hack political candidates:

http://fortune.com/2018/07/19/microsoft-russia-hack-2018-election-campaigns/


We now know (after last weeks indictmets) this is all being done with the sign off and full support of Putin.

And yet, we're literally inviting him to a front row seat to election season to, once again, shake hands and have secret one on one meetings with our President.

Makes TOTAL sense.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Its a message board. Lighten up.

Ahhh, the old standby. The mantra of those that have truly lost the point.  Right up there with Godwins law.

"It's only the internet...."
"It's just a message board....."
"It's only social media....."

 

It's a thread on politics.  If you don't expect serious discussion.....might I suggest reading Trump's twitter feed, instead?

You hate Trump, I get it.  This is pointless. 

I understand your need to dismiss it as that.  But I'm confident the context helps other readers (if there are any...if not, for posterity) see the difference between "hate", and reasonable, principled, disagreement.  When you are socially progressive and fiscally conservative, this President is LITERALLY the embodiment of the exact opposite spectrum of the political ideology.  And it doesn't help when you've watched/paid attention to this guy (as so many of his supporters have NOT), since the mid 80's, and know he's always been this kind of bullying, schmucky buffoon with shady business practices and a penchant for lying.  Trump is a modern day, less ethical, more narcissistic, less intelligent/intellectually curious, P.T. Barnum.  Always has been, always will be.  That's not hate.  It's just (well documented) history.   I don't think history is being re-written during his presidency...at least not so far. Here's hoping the lightning bolt of the gravitas of the office strikes soon.

FYI: Cute edit on the title/subject to your post, too.  I mean, I suspected you might have a little crush, but....I'm glad you just came out and admitted it.  You should hold out hope, though (we all hold out hope FOR you): Someday, you may get over him. 

Lighten up..right?

I fixed the subject line. That is what posting after midnight will do.

Ill agree to disagree and leave it at that.  When you cant concede an inch or try to see a different point of view than your own doesn't make it an engaging or  intriguing debate to get any deeper into.
 

[tim_m]

It's not that we hate him. We don't know him personally. It's the facts that he cozies up to dictators, his disregard for rule of law, his complete lack of understanding of what a president can and cannot do that a president should fully understand. It's that he sides with an enemy of the us over our own intelligence agencies. It is that the things he does truly horrify us with what he's doing to america and makes us fearful for what america will be in the near future. I've got a 15 almost 16 year old biracial niece and i'm terrified at what kinda country will be left for her.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

It's not that we hate him. We don't know him personally. It's the facts that he cozies up to dictators, his disregard for rule of law, his complete lack of understanding of what a president can and cannot do that a president should fully understand. It's that he sides with an enemy of the us over our own intelligence agencies. It is that the things he does truly horrify us with what he's doing to america and makes us fearful for what america will be in the near future. I've got a 15 almost 16 year old biracial niece and i'm terrified at what kinda country will be left for her.

What you describe as facts is the media's portrayal of him. Yes, horrible job how he handled the Putin situation. He walked it back pathetically but nevertheless he needed to.

 We are all concerned about what kind of country will be left for the next generation,  I hope they will be able to get an education or good trade, find a good job and support themselves.  And for them to keep a decent percentage of what they work hard for and not have to pay 75% of their income to social programs.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Punk icon Johnny Rotten defends Trump, slams 'left-wing media'
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/27/johnny-rotten-defends-donald-trump-slams-left-wing/

Punk icon John Lydon, better known by his stage name Johnny Rotten, defended U.S. President Donald Trump against the “left-wing media” during a Monday interview in London.

The former Sex Pistols frontman, who became a U.S. citizen in 2013, said on ITV’s “Good Morning Britain” that Mr. Trump is “a complicated fellow” but doesn’t deserve being labeled a racist by his liberal opponents.

“What I dislike is the left-wing media in America are trying to smear the bloke as a racist, and that’s completely not true,” the 61-year-old said. “There’s many, many problems with him as a human being, but he’s not that, and there just might be a chance something good will come out of that situation, because he terrifies politicians.”

Mr. Lydon said Mr. Trump is like a “political Sex Pistol” whose purpose is to rattle the status quo. After co-host Piers Morgan described Mr. Trump as “the archetypal anti-establishment character,” Mr. Lydon added: “Dare I say, a possible friend.”

The former lead singer also declared his support for Brexit, saying he stands with Britain’s “working class” who voted to exit the European Union in June.

“Where do I stand on Brexit? Well, here it goes: The working class have spoke, and I’m one of them, and I’m with them,” Mr. Lydon said, raising his fist. “And there it is.”

[tim_m]

The man has clearly had a few too many drugs. People who aren't racist don't constantly use racial slurs.

[pilferk]

The man has clearly had a few too many drugs. People who aren't racist don't constantly use racial slurs.

Remember, celebrities should stay out of politics, though, and shouldn't weigh in. In addition, their political preferences should never influence or be depicted in their art. (unless, of course, they're conservatives)

If your celebrity endorsements are from folks like Ted Nugent and Johnny Rotten....I'm not sure that's the thing I would want to advertise.  But, hey......

I'd also add, Johnny's flip flopped on this pretty dramatically:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/john-lydon-interview-brexit-eu-donald-trump-president-racist-nigel-farage-sex-pistols-a7653451.html

Almost seems like maybe he said stuff (likely both times) to get his name in the press or further his image or something? Nah, not him! 

[pilferk]

It's not that we hate him. We don't know him personally. It's the facts that he cozies up to dictators, his disregard for rule of law, his complete lack of understanding of what a president can and cannot do that a president should fully understand. It's that he sides with an enemy of the us over our own intelligence agencies. It is that the things he does truly horrify us with what he's doing to america and makes us fearful for what america will be in the near future. I've got a 15 almost 16 year old biracial niece and i'm terrified at what kinda country will be left for her.

Yeah, tim! It's all the boogeyman! He's gonna GETCHA!

I mean, never mind there is actual video of Trump doing/saying this stuff, actual actions that we can look at and objectively quantify, actual executive orders we can see, and interviews with him from both before and after he took office, along with 30 years of public life, and all that "in trumps own words" (or the various messages that come from PropagandaSec...I mean  PressSec) to pretty much document EVERY SINGLE THING you mention above.  The only subjective part of your entire post is the last 2 sentences.

The EVIL MSMoogyman is making you THINK you see and hear things that aren't real.  Even if they're unedited video and audio, or tweets/retweets on his feed, or worse yet LIVE video. 

So don't believe your eyes and ears, tim.  Believe the CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, and their talking points!  Believe THIS president (just don't fact check! That's VERBOTEN!!)! Believe the PressSec (but again, NO FACT CHECKING!! AND NO FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS!!!!). Believe them when they tell you that your eyes and ears lie to you, tim!  Only the bright and shining light that is Trump can lead you to truth!!

Can I get an "All Hail Trump"?!  Hallelujah!

[pilferk]

...and there it is, the full Trump playbook...he's back to it being a hoax again!!

[pilferk]

Punk icon Johnny Rotten defends Trump, slams 'left-wing media'
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/27/johnny-rotten-defends-donald-trump-slams-left-wing/

Punk icon John Lydon, better known by his stage name Johnny Rotten, defended U.S. President Donald Trump against the “left-wing media” during a Monday interview in London.

The former Sex Pistols frontman, who became a U.S. citizen in 2013, said on ITV’s “Good Morning Britain” that Mr. Trump is “a complicated fellow” but doesn’t deserve being labeled a racist by his liberal opponents.

“What I dislike is the left-wing media in America are trying to smear the bloke as a racist, and that’s completely not true,” the 61-year-old said. “There’s many, many problems with him as a human being, but he’s not that, and there just might be a chance something good will come out of that situation, because he terrifies politicians.”

Mr. Lydon said Mr. Trump is like a “political Sex Pistol” whose purpose is to rattle the status quo. After co-host Piers Morgan described Mr. Trump as “the archetypal anti-establishment character,” Mr. Lydon added: “Dare I say, a possible friend.”

The former lead singer also declared his support for Brexit, saying he stands with Britain’s “working class” who voted to exit the European Union in June.

“Where do I stand on Brexit? Well, here it goes: The working class have spoke, and I’m one of them, and I’m with them,” Mr. Lydon said, raising his fist. “And there it is.”

Welcome to 2017. While Johnny was defending himself against racism claims.

When, in 2016, he said very different things.

Wonder what he'd say this year?

PS: A month later, in April, for a Newsweek interview, he's already started to slag on Trump and #AlternateFacts.  He goes so far as to call Trump's presidency "amateur hour".

Crazy what someone seeking publicity for an album will do to get their name in the press,eh?

[sandman]

For those interested:

Our ACTUAL NATO annual dues (which are about 22% of their budget....meaning the rest of the alliance pays roughly 78% of the NATO budget): $440 million based on NATO's approximately 2 billion annual budget.

Not that it matters (or is relevant, since it's not how any of this is determined...it's based on population), but that works out to about .002% of GDP (18.57 trillion).

Or roughly $1.33 per year, per person, in the US.

And, to be clear, Trump has not asked for any changes in that cost sharing percentage.  And not one country, in NATO, is delinquent on their cost sharing contributions/dues.

So...no NATO member is "costing tax payers" any money, in the US.  Nobody OWES the US any "back funding".  All that is a lie by this President.

no one is interested. trust me.

Trump (and SB) is referencing the indirect costs, which is an important and more practical measure. we pay nearly 4% of GDP, by far the highest percentage. other countries should pay more and they know it.

[sandman]

It's not that we hate him. We don't know him personally. It's the facts that he cozies up to dictators, his disregard for rule of law, his complete lack of understanding of what a president can and cannot do that a president should fully understand. It's that he sides with an enemy of the us over our own intelligence agencies. It is that the things he does truly horrify us with what he's doing to america and makes us fearful for what america will be in the near future. I've got a 15 almost 16 year old biracial niece and i'm terrified at what kinda country will be left for her.

if you are terrified, buy a dog.

what scares you...
roaring economy?
lowest unemployment rates for blacks and hispanics?
ISIS decimated?
world peace???

#winning

[tim_m]

It's not that we hate him. We don't know him personally. It's the facts that he cozies up to dictators, his disregard for rule of law, his complete lack of understanding of what a president can and cannot do that a president should fully understand. It's that he sides with an enemy of the us over our own intelligence agencies. It is that the things he does truly horrify us with what he's doing to america and makes us fearful for what america will be in the near future. I've got a 15 almost 16 year old biracial niece and i'm terrified at what kinda country will be left for her.

if you are terrified, buy a dog.

what scares you...
roaring economy?
lowest unemployment rates for blacks and hispanics?
ISIS decimated?
world peace???

#winning

Don't you get tired of repeating the same lies over and over?

[pilferk]

It's not that we hate him. We don't know him personally. It's the facts that he cozies up to dictators, his disregard for rule of law, his complete lack of understanding of what a president can and cannot do that a president should fully understand. It's that he sides with an enemy of the us over our own intelligence agencies. It is that the things he does truly horrify us with what he's doing to america and makes us fearful for what america will be in the near future. I've got a 15 almost 16 year old biracial niece and i'm terrified at what kinda country will be left for her.

if you are terrified, buy a dog.

what scares you...
roaring economy?
lowest unemployment rates for blacks and hispanics?
ISIS decimated?
world peace???

#winning

Don't you get tired of repeating the same lies over and over?

I wonder the same thing, tim.  I had written up a nice post contradicting each assertion, one by one.

Then I realized: i've done that before.  For each and every one of them.  Each claim is misleading or gives Trump credit for something for which he has done NOTHING to warrant it. 

And every time I ask for examples of things Trump has done to warrant credit, I get crickets (or conservative talking points that have no basis in data, history, or fact).

I'm very quickly coming to the conclusion that sandman is really just here to troll.  Because other than one, single conversation over flu ridden tax math, he doesn't really do anything but pop in, yell slogans, and walk away. 

Given that...I'm just not going to bother. Because he's either trolling or he's just one of those poor, gaslit MAGA-bots who are incapable of seeing anything other than what's presented to them on Fox News.  Neither of those is worth the time and effort of a response.

[tim_m]

Here's a topic i think, i hope we can all agree sets a dangerous precedent. The CNN reporter banned from the WH today for asking Trump legitimate questions.