Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

It was more fun around here before it devolved to trading personal shots at one another.

Taking a break from this debate if you still call it that at this point. 

The only personal shot here by the "Anti-Trumpers" was the "warped little mind" shot...and I agree, it wasn't necessary or worthwhile.

BUT, the rest of the sentiment of that post is pretty dead on the mark.  If not specifically for you, for the conservative "group think" as a whole.

[tim_m]

So, it looks like you were right Piflrek, Cohen is gonna sing  like a canary and cooperate fully with the investigation. I am curious to see what he has to say. If he knows more then potential campaign finance laws violations. I believe the articles say there are a whopping 37 million documents. I would hate to have the job of sifting through that mess.

[tim_m]

We are now officially in a trade war with China who owns our asses. This will not end well.

[pilferk]

Watching the Repubs grasp at straws, and try to spin them into gold, with the IG report is actually laugh out loud funny.

I have a suggestion: Anyone buying into the Fox News spin...read the entire 500 page report. (I just finished it.)

Because literally the IG's conclusions are EXACTLY the opposite, across the board, compared to the Fox Spin.

No bias, no animus, and everything Comey did hurt Hillary, and helped Trump.

And the FBI agent and his lovers texts? Just texts.  No actual documentary, testimonial, or circumstantial evidence either one ever did anything.....repeat ANYTHING...of substance that violated FBI policy or was in any way detrimental to Trump or his campaign.

It all but says that it was blustery pillow talk.

What I find even more laughable from the Fox parrots is that they then tell people who are correcting them to read the report.  And when met with "I did...did  you?"...they go completely silent.

The Republican parties relationship with the truth is no longer just estranged....they have divorced over irreconcilable differences.

[pilferk]

We are now officially in a trade war with China who owns our asses. This will not end well.

Lets see how the market reacts to that.....so far, not so good.  But it's a long trading day before the weekend sets in.

[AxlsMainMan]

Can't even imagine the aneurysms and strokes our conservatives friends on here would be having if this had been Obama

[tim_m]

Can't even imagine the aneurysms and strokes our conservatives friends on here would be having if this had been Obama

They'd set their hair on fire.

[tim_m]

Watching the Repubs grasp at straws, and try to spin them into gold, with the IG report is actually laugh out loud funny.

I have a suggestion: Anyone buying into the Fox News spin...read the entire 500 page report. (I just finished it.)

Because literally the IG's conclusions are EXACTLY the opposite, across the board, compared to the Fox Spin.

No bias, no animus, and everything Comey did hurt Hillary, and helped Trump.

And the FBI agent and his lovers texts? Just texts.  No actual documentary, testimonial, or circumstantial evidence either one ever did anything.....repeat ANYTHING...of substance that violated FBI policy or was in any way detrimental to Trump or his campaign.

It all but says that it was blustery pillow talk.

What I find even more laughable from the Fox parrots is that they then tell people who are correcting them to read the report.  And when met with "I did...did  you?"...they go completely silent.

The Republican parties relationship with the truth is no longer just estranged....they have divorced over irreconcilable differences.

Wow that had to have taken some time.

[tim_m]

Any thoughts on Trump's comments on the lawn that he claims was just being sarcastic?

[tim_m]

Wow did you see him berate that reporter from CNN?

[pilferk]

Wow that had to have taken some time.

You'd think..but not so much.  There's a lot of filler, legal language/definitions (which you can skim), evidence documentation, and the like.

I mean, it's a solid 2 or 3 hours investment (make sure you have coffee or your favorite energy drink on standby), no lie.  But its not days of your life.

[tim_m]

Wow that had to have taken some time.

You'd think..but not so much.  There's a lot of filler, legal language/definitions (which you can skim), evidence documentation, and the like.

I mean, it's a solid 2 or 3 hours investment (make sure you have coffee or your favorite energy drink on standby), no lie.  But its not days of your life.

I bet it gave you a nice reprieve from what you are supposed to be doing though, lol.

[pilferk]

I bet it gave you a nice reprieve from what you are supposed to be doing though, lol.

Sort of.

But I'm paying for it, now.  Writing to finish up the rest of a group research poster presentation on fathers day.

Meh, could be worse though.

[tim_m]

So now it appears Roger Stone met with a Russian operative in 2016 wanting $2 million from Trump for dirt on Hillary.

[tim_m]

The first lady wears a jacket that says i really don't care to meet with migrant children separated from their parents. Who's bright idea was this? Even they had to know the optics would be terrible.

[sandman]

The first lady wears a jacket that says i really don't care to meet with migrant children separated from their parents. Who's bright idea was this? Even they had to know the optics would be terrible.

after all of this time, you still think the Trump camp worries about "optics"?  come on man, you gotta start paying attention.

yes, your liberal media will twist it in a way to make the First Lady look bad. but they don't care. and that's one reason people love them. she owns the media. she is alpha AF.

[sandman]

Some of the pictures of border kids that haunt me most are from 2014. Here's why | Will Bunch

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/will_bunch/border-crisis-immigration-barack-obama-donald-trump-20180624.html

this is a great article from a hard core liberal writer in Philly. he is highly respected and has been doing political commentary for years. he admits that many liberals ignored kids being detained under Obama, even though it was widely reported.

I at least give this guy credit for doing some soul searching and admitting his bullshit.

the sad thing is, we depend on our media as a tool to help keep politicians in check. but because of blind partisanship, the media has failed us.

the bigger question is, what else is getting missed?

[pilferk]

Some of the pictures of border kids that haunt me most are from 2014. Here's why | Will Bunch

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/will_bunch/border-crisis-immigration-barack-obama-donald-trump-20180624.html

this is a great article from a hard core liberal writer in Philly. he is highly respected and has been doing political commentary for years. he admits that many liberals ignored kids being detained under Obama, even though it was widely reported.

I at least give this guy credit for doing some soul searching and admitting his bullshit.

the sad thing is, we depend on our media as a tool to help keep politicians in check. but because of blind partisanship, the media has failed us.

the bigger question is, what else is getting missed?

The pictures this administration circulated and passed off as being "theirs"? Those pictures?

Of kids who were held in border patrol "cages" for somewhere between 24 and 48 hours before being moved to shelters in 2014? Those kids?

Yeah, I think the outrage was a bit more subdued back then because

a) It wasn't based on a horrifically bad policy, it was based on an unforeseen surge in unaccompanied minors showing up practically out of nowhere

b) It was a relatively short duration stay based on surge capacity (sort of like being in the hallway in the ED vs a room when the place is full)

c) The Obama administration actually worked to make sure it DIDN'T and WASN'T happening for any longer than necessary. They explained what was going on, when asked about it (they didn't lie or obfuscate or hide it....witness the pictures you are seeing), they said the situation was not ideal or planned.  And they laid out their plans and steps to fix it, within a couple weeks of the surge overwhelming them. They weren't pulling families apart, they were dealing with kids who showed up on our doorstep WITHOUT adult supervision.  They brought on additional shelters and resources to specifically help reunite those kids with family in the US (many of their parents were already here).  Something like 75% to 80% of those kids were actually REUNITED with family by the former administration....and relatively quickly (within 21 days, in most cases).

So....in short....the two things being compared here weren't remotely the same thing.

Obama:
Took a shit ton of unaccompanied minors who suddenly showed up at the border, moved them from a lock up facility to a shelter ASAP, and reunited most of them with family. In other words, their policy was to comfort and reunite those that had been separated.  Again, that's not media spin or bias.  It's documented as history.

Trump:
Took accompanied minors away from their families at the border, kept them in lockups for a week or so til they could find someplace, ANYPLACE (aka juvenile detention centers and tent cities and, yes, some shelters) they could throw them, and pledged to keep them from their families as a deterrent to other immigrants/asylum seekers.  They kept piss poor documentation on who belongs to who, and where they all are, to the point kids are having a hard time contacting (and the government is now having a hard time finding) their parents.  Not only was the whole thing stupid and cruel but it was done with such operational ineptness it's astounding.

If you can't see the differences here (and I'm relatively sure you won't admit there are any), then the issue isn't with the media's portrayal.  And it's certainly not with the level of coverage.

Yes, the media fucked up and used pictures they were given and labeled them as the thing they were told they were, without doing further investigation.  Shame on them for believing this administration.  I agree.

I am no friend to "big media" and their play for ratings in the 24 hour news cycle.  But neither am I for this insane attack on the free press for pure partisanship reasons, either.  The blind partisanship argument goes both ways: Attacking the media for reporting things you don't like because they shatter your world view is a much larger issue.

Those tin foil hats are tight, hot, and uncomfortable.  No thanks.

[pilferk]

And to be clear: I'm not saying there shouldn't be outrage over some of the things that happened in 2010 and 2014 and 2015.

There should.  And from what I remember, there was. The country was also wallowing in an economic climate that tended to get most of the attention and most of the 24 hour ratings...I mean news...cycle.

But the degrees of outrage are different between the two, and for good reason.

One saw people behaving badly down stream from the actual policy, which was widely considered to be good (aka reunite these kids ASAP with loved ones).

One saw those UPSTREAM behaving deplorably, and enabling (and encouraging) deplorable behavior downstream.  It was rotten from top to bottom, and it was espoused by the guy at the very top.  This wasn't a "the buck stops here" situation, where POTUS is stuck with bad behavior from an underling they need to explain.  This was POTUS exhibiting the despicable behavior.

Objections over how an administration handled an unplanned humanitarian crisis vs Objections over an administration CAUSING, and then badlyl handling, a very much avoidable humanitarian crisis.

I would also point out that "but the other guy" arguments wear very thin.  Cry Hillary.  Cry Obama.  Neither are currently the POTUS or running the country. Neither of their past actions are excuses for this POTUS.  And given how much conservatives cried, complained, and hated those two figures...citing them as justification of anything is at least as, and maybe more, hypocritical than anything you're trying to point out here.

To sum up: When the POTUS does something deplorable (and this was) you have a choice: You can cry foul....or you can bend and twist and make leaps of logic, and point to the other guys, and wiggle and wobble and ENABLE that deplorable-ness, which makes you complicit in it.  Your choice.

[pilferk]

Harley shipping jobs overseas to fight against Trump tariffs.

Edit: And now the president is threatening an American company for making a business decision, and one that's sort of a no brainer, that he forced them to make through his policy.

You can't make this shit up.