Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[sandman]

i'm not a big fan of this tax plan. it's not really what I wanted. things I hate about it:
1. it did not simplify things as much as I had hoped.
2. it also helps the rich more on a percentage basis.
3. it reduces incentives to own a home.

Ditto.  Combined with "they didn't actually find a way to pay for them".

I really don't care if the tax plan helps you or not. the facts are the facts. it will help far more than it hurts, but it would not be at all surprising if someone on this board was in the minority of people it hurts.

I don't think it's that small of a minority. Maybe.  Maybe we all live in the same small town in CT (with high property values and taxes)? [Edit: That's not meant to point out a contributing factor.  Just a comment on the type of town we live in.]

based on info you have shared, for the 2017 tax year, you will reduce your taxable income by about $40,000 via the personal exemptions ($20,250) and itemizing (approx. $20K in write-offs via SALT, mortgage interest, charity).

I'm not comfortable sharing specifics (for obvious reasons) but your assumed numbers are far enough off, in these first two paragraphs, to make the rest of the example (as it pertains to me) not much matter. You got the household size and makeup right (so, consequently, the personal exemption number, too)...and that's about it.

The loss of personal exemptions, and the elimination of some of the write offs we took altogether (job expenses, for example) leave us on the outside.  And the elimination of those write offs put us at an "itemization level" where the standard deduction is the better option (but not by much). It's just not AS GOOD of an option as we have THIS year.

Which, again, is totally fine.  We can hack it. I'm not at all complaining. But it is what it is.  Without the lower rates and increased child tax credit.....we'd be looking at more like a 5k-6k increase.  So..there's that!

Based on the new rates, you will owe $8,599 in taxes minus the $6,000 in child tax credits for a total tax liability of $2,599.

    O man, do I wish.

I've generally heard 80% of Americans are getting a tax cut.

of the remaining 20%, only 5% are getting a tax increase of $10 or more. the large majority of those folks in the 5% are upper income (not the middle class) AND from high tax states (like CT).

But there is also a number of people included in the 20% getting tax increases that are in the middle class. a common issue is that they too live in high tax states. this is because of the $10K cap on SALT deductions. there is talk of states passing legislation to get around this.

so you are in a select group, but it makes sense that you and people you've talked to are in the same boat since you are paying that ridiculous CT state tax, probably high real estate taxes, and possibly a ton in mortgage interest.     

[sandman]

So did everyone figure out how much $$$ u get to keep from the gov?t in 2018? 

 

I went back to my last year's 1040 and adjusted the line items to reflect the changes in the new Trump tax plan. I estimate I'll be paying $4000 less in taxes a year under this tax plan.  And that is a big deal to me as I'm a small business that pays every year and that is a decent amount of money to me.  And I am in the the middle of the middle class.


 

that's awesome! congrats! glad to hear that. and glad to hear as a small business you are getting a nice chunk.

i'm in a similar spot. about a $4,500 to $5,500 reduction in what I will owe. so i'm cool with it.

but as I said in another post, not a huge fan of the tax plan overall. I feel like there was a bit of a missed opportunity here. but we'll see how everything pans out in the coming years.

when you have time to digest everything, i'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it.

[WAR41]

Does anyone know if the amount of money you can put into a retirement fund has changed?  It was $18K (not asking about situations for those who are close to retirement age).  Has the $18K changed at all? 

[sandman]

Does anyone know if the amount of money you can put into a retirement fund has changed?  It was $18K (not asking about situations for those who are close to retirement age).  Has the $18K changed at all? 

Yes, it increased $500 for 2018.  So you can put $18,500 into 401k in 2018.

No change on IRAs. That remains at $5,500.

I also started maxing out my HSA in recent years. Definitely another decent tool that can be utilized for funding retirement.

[WAR41]

Does anyone know if the amount of money you can put into a retirement fund has changed?  It was $18K (not asking about situations for those who are close to retirement age).  Has the $18K changed at all? 

Yes, it increased $500 for 2018.  So you can put $18,500 into 401k in 2018.

No change on IRAs. That remains at $5,500.

I also started maxing out my HSA in recent years. Definitely another decent tool that can be utilized for funding retirement.

Much appreciated Sandman.  Before the changes to the tax plan both my wife and I were going to need to max out our 401K to get down into another tax bracket.  Doesn't look like this is a problem anymore with the new brackets.  I still want to max out anyways. 

I screwed myself on the HSA for 2018.  Made a foolish mistake and didn't put enough in. 

[tim_m]

And how long before people having less to spend puts the economy in the shitter/

See, I don't think it's that bad (unless perception wrecks Consumer Confidence). It's just not that good, either.  At least not for the wage earners. Businesses fair better, for sure. But to parade this around like it's the second coming, or that it's some sort of savior of the middle class....that's political grandstanding for the rah rah ditto heads. I would hesitate to even call it a modest tax break for most of the middle class....who are likely now paying taxes on MORE of their income with LESS write offs available. Anecdotally, in our neck of the woods (small, suburban, firmly pegged middle class, in CT) it's a win some/lose some balancing act.  Some are seeing a 1 to 2k break, and a pretty equal number are seeing a 1 to 2k increase. Mes a mes.

What I think it is...for the lower and middle wage earners (aka the W2 sect), is basically a zero sum game, maybe slightly better (+1%, maybe?).  But the paltry amount it's "better" isn't enough to stimulate the economy, or support the "we'll grow out of the deficits with this tax cut, don't worry" mentality.

Businesses don't grow, or add jobs, just because they have extra cash. Hell, corporate america is sitting on the largest stockpile of cash in history. The only thing they're doing is going on mergers and acquisition sprees (I'm looking at you, disney), increasing dividends (slightly), or doing buybacks.  Surveyed CEOs (despite some notable PR opportunities that you may have seen) say they'll likely do more of the same with the tax breaks. Maybe they're lying....but the one thing I find dependable in this world is corporate greed, so....

And all that ignores the fact that the past 2 Republican presidents and Congresses have tried the same sorts of things, using the same sorts of logic.  And both have put us in Recessions (and yes, I'm aware that 9-11 had something to do with the Bush Jr. Recession...but so did trickle down).  I'm not sure why the Repubs think this time is any different...but we'll see.

OK, seriously, I gotta get back to school work for the next few weeks.

Enjoy the debate, everyone.

Corporations will either do that or pocket it for bonuses for their execs or hide it offshore. They never use tax break money for you know giving people a living wage or add jobs.

[WAR41]

And how long before people having less to spend puts the economy in the shitter/

See, I don't think it's that bad (unless perception wrecks Consumer Confidence). It's just not that good, either.  At least not for the wage earners. Businesses fair better, for sure. But to parade this around like it's the second coming, or that it's some sort of savior of the middle class....that's political grandstanding for the rah rah ditto heads. I would hesitate to even call it a modest tax break for most of the middle class....who are likely now paying taxes on MORE of their income with LESS write offs available. Anecdotally, in our neck of the woods (small, suburban, firmly pegged middle class, in CT) it's a win some/lose some balancing act.  Some are seeing a 1 to 2k break, and a pretty equal number are seeing a 1 to 2k increase. Mes a mes.

What I think it is...for the lower and middle wage earners (aka the W2 sect), is basically a zero sum game, maybe slightly better (+1%, maybe?).  But the paltry amount it's "better" isn't enough to stimulate the economy, or support the "we'll grow out of the deficits with this tax cut, don't worry" mentality.

Businesses don't grow, or add jobs, just because they have extra cash. Hell, corporate america is sitting on the largest stockpile of cash in history. The only thing they're doing is going on mergers and acquisition sprees (I'm looking at you, disney), increasing dividends (slightly), or doing buybacks.  Surveyed CEOs (despite some notable PR opportunities that you may have seen) say they'll likely do more of the same with the tax breaks. Maybe they're lying....but the one thing I find dependable in this world is corporate greed, so....

And all that ignores the fact that the past 2 Republican presidents and Congresses have tried the same sorts of things, using the same sorts of logic.  And both have put us in Recessions (and yes, I'm aware that 9-11 had something to do with the Bush Jr. Recession...but so did trickle down).  I'm not sure why the Repubs think this time is any different...but we'll see.

OK, seriously, I gotta get back to school work for the next few weeks.

Enjoy the debate, everyone.

Corporations will either do that or pocket it for bonuses for their execs or hide it offshore. They never use tax break money for you know giving people a living wage or add jobs.

Do you have documented cases of this happening?  I know this is the common argument but I've never seen anyone say "in 1994 IBM took that extra money and....".  Not trying to start an argument, just that I was an economics major in college.  I think it is foolish to believe companies would pocket money in favor of investing in new technologies/employees in order to make themselves more competitive in the marketplace and make more money in the long run than the tax cuts provide in the short run. 

[damnthehaters]

And how long before people having less to spend puts the economy in the shitter/

See, I don't think it's that bad (unless perception wrecks Consumer Confidence). It's just not that good, either.  At least not for the wage earners. Businesses fair better, for sure. But to parade this around like it's the second coming, or that it's some sort of savior of the middle class....that's political grandstanding for the rah rah ditto heads. I would hesitate to even call it a modest tax break for most of the middle class....who are likely now paying taxes on MORE of their income with LESS write offs available. Anecdotally, in our neck of the woods (small, suburban, firmly pegged middle class, in CT) it's a win some/lose some balancing act.  Some are seeing a 1 to 2k break, and a pretty equal number are seeing a 1 to 2k increase. Mes a mes.

What I think it is...for the lower and middle wage earners (aka the W2 sect), is basically a zero sum game, maybe slightly better (+1%, maybe?).  But the paltry amount it's "better" isn't enough to stimulate the economy, or support the "we'll grow out of the deficits with this tax cut, don't worry" mentality.

Businesses don't grow, or add jobs, just because they have extra cash. Hell, corporate america is sitting on the largest stockpile of cash in history. The only thing they're doing is going on mergers and acquisition sprees (I'm looking at you, disney), increasing dividends (slightly), or doing buybacks.  Surveyed CEOs (despite some notable PR opportunities that you may have seen) say they'll likely do more of the same with the tax breaks. Maybe they're lying....but the one thing I find dependable in this world is corporate greed, so....

And all that ignores the fact that the past 2 Republican presidents and Congresses have tried the same sorts of things, using the same sorts of logic.  And both have put us in Recessions (and yes, I'm aware that 9-11 had something to do with the Bush Jr. Recession...but so did trickle down).  I'm not sure why the Repubs think this time is any different...but we'll see.

OK, seriously, I gotta get back to school work for the next few weeks.

Enjoy the debate, everyone.

Corporations will either do that or pocket it for bonuses for their execs or hide it offshore. They never use tax break money for you know giving people a living wage or add jobs.

.

C?mon guys..🙄 No reason to be negative about this.  Ask yourself, are you just arguing this because a Republican passed it? 

 ?Never??  Many Businesses do indeed use this money for good.  Have you happened to here about all the businesses giving bonuses lately? Bonuses put money into people?s pockets.  More  $$$ in peoples pockets means they can help themselves and also spend more.  People spending more, helps the economy.  A thriving economy is good for the country.  I?ve also heard companies will be giving more to charity.  In my business, we will be adding much needed technology.  This is a good thing in my mind.  Very positive thing.  I mean you don?t have to complain about this. We already have Bernie Sanders for that, who obviously does not understand basic ecenomics. 😁. Actually, I?m sure it?s just because he?s got to keep his base.

?Both have put us into recessions?. Really?  Funny, I always thought it was Bill Clinton who played a major role in our economy crashing when he said ?every American deserves to live in a home?.  Then banks started lending to anyone and everyone, and years later, it came crashing down when people couldn?t keep up with payments.  Good movie came out about this a couple years ago.  But damn, guess I was wrong about that ...because Pilferk said so. 

I also remember a man name Ronald Regean, who?s tax cut was a very good thing for our country at the time...🤔

[tim_m]

And how long before people having less to spend puts the economy in the shitter/

See, I don't think it's that bad (unless perception wrecks Consumer Confidence). It's just not that good, either.  At least not for the wage earners. Businesses fair better, for sure. But to parade this around like it's the second coming, or that it's some sort of savior of the middle class....that's political grandstanding for the rah rah ditto heads. I would hesitate to even call it a modest tax break for most of the middle class....who are likely now paying taxes on MORE of their income with LESS write offs available. Anecdotally, in our neck of the woods (small, suburban, firmly pegged middle class, in CT) it's a win some/lose some balancing act.  Some are seeing a 1 to 2k break, and a pretty equal number are seeing a 1 to 2k increase. Mes a mes.

What I think it is...for the lower and middle wage earners (aka the W2 sect), is basically a zero sum game, maybe slightly better (+1%, maybe?).  But the paltry amount it's "better" isn't enough to stimulate the economy, or support the "we'll grow out of the deficits with this tax cut, don't worry" mentality.

Businesses don't grow, or add jobs, just because they have extra cash. Hell, corporate america is sitting on the largest stockpile of cash in history. The only thing they're doing is going on mergers and acquisition sprees (I'm looking at you, disney), increasing dividends (slightly), or doing buybacks.  Surveyed CEOs (despite some notable PR opportunities that you may have seen) say they'll likely do more of the same with the tax breaks. Maybe they're lying....but the one thing I find dependable in this world is corporate greed, so....

And all that ignores the fact that the past 2 Republican presidents and Congresses have tried the same sorts of things, using the same sorts of logic.  And both have put us in Recessions (and yes, I'm aware that 9-11 had something to do with the Bush Jr. Recession...but so did trickle down).  I'm not sure why the Repubs think this time is any different...but we'll see.

OK, seriously, I gotta get back to school work for the next few weeks.

Enjoy the debate, everyone.

Corporations will either do that or pocket it for bonuses for their execs or hide it offshore. They never use tax break money for you know giving people a living wage or add jobs.

.

C?mon guys..🙄 No reason to be negative about this.  Ask yourself, are you just arguing this because a Republican passed it? 

 ?Never??  Many Businesses do indeed use this money for good.  Have you happened to here about all the businesses giving bonuses lately? Bonuses put money into people?s pockets.  More  $$$ in peoples pockets means they can help themselves and also spend more.  People spending more, helps the economy.  A thriving economy is good for the country.  I?ve also heard companies will be giving more to charity.  In my business, we will be adding much needed technology.  This is a good thing in my mind.  Very positive thing.  I mean you don?t have to complain about this. We already have Bernie Sanders for that, who obviously does not understand basic ecenomics. 😁. Actually, I?m sure it?s just because he?s got to keep his base.

?Both have put us into recessions?. Really?  Funny, I always thought it was Bill Clinton who played a major role in our economy crashing when he said ?every American deserves to live in a home?.  Then banks started lending to anyone and everyone, and years later, it came crashing down when people couldn?t keep up with payments.  Good movie came out about this a couple years ago.  But damn, guess I was wrong about that ...because Pilferk said so. 

I also remember a man name Ronald Regean, who?s tax cut was a very good thing for our country at the time...🤔

Give me a break, Regan caused the biggest widening of the income gap in us history.

[WAR41]

Give me a break, Regan caused the biggest widening of the income gap in us history.

But if everyone has more spending power I fail to see how this is such a bad thing.  Outside of some thinking it is "not fair" that some one else got more money than them how can some one complain about having more money in their pockets? 

[damnthehaters]

And how long before people having less to spend puts the economy in the shitter/

See, I don't think it's that bad (unless perception wrecks Consumer Confidence). It's just not that good, either.  At least not for the wage earners. Businesses fair better, for sure. But to parade this around like it's the second coming, or that it's some sort of savior of the middle class....that's political grandstanding for the rah rah ditto heads. I would hesitate to even call it a modest tax break for most of the middle class....who are likely now paying taxes on MORE of their income with LESS write offs available. Anecdotally, in our neck of the woods (small, suburban, firmly pegged middle class, in CT) it's a win some/lose some balancing act.  Some are seeing a 1 to 2k break, and a pretty equal number are seeing a 1 to 2k increase. Mes a mes.

What I think it is...for the lower and middle wage earners (aka the W2 sect), is basically a zero sum game, maybe slightly better (+1%, maybe?).  But the paltry amount it's "better" isn't enough to stimulate the economy, or support the "we'll grow out of the deficits with this tax cut, don't worry" mentality.

Businesses don't grow, or add jobs, just because they have extra cash. Hell, corporate america is sitting on the largest stockpile of cash in history. The only thing they're doing is going on mergers and acquisition sprees (I'm looking at you, disney), increasing dividends (slightly), or doing buybacks.  Surveyed CEOs (despite some notable PR opportunities that you may have seen) say they'll likely do more of the same with the tax breaks. Maybe they're lying....but the one thing I find dependable in this world is corporate greed, so....

And all that ignores the fact that the past 2 Republican presidents and Congresses have tried the same sorts of things, using the same sorts of logic.  And both have put us in Recessions (and yes, I'm aware that 9-11 had something to do with the Bush Jr. Recession...but so did trickle down).  I'm not sure why the Repubs think this time is any different...but we'll see.

OK, seriously, I gotta get back to school work for the next few weeks.

Enjoy the debate, everyone.

Corporations will either do that or pocket it for bonuses for their execs or hide it offshore. They never use tax break money for you know giving people a living wage or add jobs.

.

C?mon guys..🙄 No reason to be negative about this.  Ask yourself, are you just arguing this because a Republican passed it? 

 ?Never??  Many Businesses do indeed use this money for good.  Have you happened to here about all the businesses giving bonuses lately? Bonuses put money into people?s pockets.  More  $$$ in peoples pockets means they can help themselves and also spend more.  People spending more, helps the economy.  A thriving economy is good for the country.  I?ve also heard companies will be giving more to charity.  In my business, we will be adding much needed technology.  This is a good thing in my mind.  Very positive thing.  I mean you don?t have to complain about this. We already have Bernie Sanders for that, who obviously does not understand basic ecenomics. 😁. Actually, I?m sure it?s just because he?s got to keep his base.

?Both have put us into recessions?. Really?  Funny, I always thought it was Bill Clinton who played a major role in our economy crashing when he said ?every American deserves to live in a home?.  Then banks started lending to anyone and everyone, and years later, it came crashing down when people couldn?t keep up with payments.  Good movie came out about this a couple years ago.  But damn, guess I was wrong about that ...because Pilferk said so. 

I also remember a man name Ronald Regean, who?s tax cut was a very good thing for our country at the time...🤔

Give me a break, Regan caused the biggest widening of the income gap in us history.

Well I?m glad all the other stuff may have made some sense.  As far as Reagan, his tax breaks were very good for the economy.  And in terms of the widening income gap, do you believe in socialism?  Socialism has never worked and for a country to flourish, you gotta have income gaps.  Did you know that the top 1% of this country pay around 40% of all federal income tax?  The top 10% pay nearly 75% of federal income tax.  It?s a good thing to have rich people.  Rich people pay the majority of taxes, they give the most to charity, they spend more in the economy, etc.  I?m definitely not in the top 10% and I?m not gonna complain.  We don?t ALL deserve the same thing. 

[damnthehaters]

Give me a break, Regan caused the biggest widening of the income gap in us history.

But if everyone has more spending power I fail to see how this is such a bad thing.  Outside of some thinking it is "not fair" that some one else got more money than them how can some one complain about having more money in their pockets? 

They complain because their party isn?t in office.  Whatever happens in the Whitehouse (even when it?s positive, like this situation), some will always complain.  And this goes for both sides.  However, they SHOULD NOT be complaining about these tax breaks if they understand basic economics.  It?s a good thing, and most people will be benefiting from it. 

[tim_m]

The biggest tax cuts are for the rich and that's not a good thing. You really think an extra  $40-50 off each paycheck is really gonna help that much? Imo this doesn't help those who need it most enough. It hurts students, it hurts teachers and police officers. This is not a good tax plan no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

[damnthehaters]

The biggest tax cuts are for the rich and that's not a good thing. You really think an extra  $40-50 off each paycheck is really gonna help that much? Imo this doesn't help those who need it most enough. It hurts students, it hurts teachers and police officers. This is not a good tax plan no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

The very first thing you said is wrong.  The biggest tax breaks ARE NOT for the rich.  The 3 biggest tax breaks are for the  2nd, 3rd, and 4th levels.  These range in yearly salaries of 10k-157k per year.

How exactly is this tax plan ?hurting? students, teachers, and police?  4 of the bottom 5 tax brackets will be getting taxed less...and this is the majority of the people in the country.  Many of them will bring home more money, and some won?t even be taxed.  Are you saying it?s bad, because they deserve more?  These people you mention will be bringing home more $$$ than they did under Obama?s tax plan!  But it?s bad because it?s not enough?  Lol. You?re sounding an awful lot like Bernie Sanders.  Socialism doesn?t work, and it?s a disgrace when people who are getting taxed less and bringing home more money, are bitching that they should get more.

Your response doesn?t change any of the facts I posted above.  The richest people in this country still pay the most BY FAR!  In this tax plan, the very top bracket is getting a tax break of 2.6%. Is that really what you are bitching about?  The fact that the people who pay the majority of this countries federal taxes, are now going to be getting a 2.6% break?  Not too mention, the majority of all others are getting tax breaks as well, and some aren?t even going to be paying taxes.  Seriously man....🤔🤔🤔

Along with that, I?m  gonna give you two examples where it doesn?t help the rich and even benefits the less fortunate.

1). For home owners, you now cannot deduct anything over 750k.  What this means is that if you own a 1 million dollar home...you will be paying more to the government than before.  This certainly doesn?t help the rich.

2). The standard deduction on taxable income has risen under this plan.  What this means is that more lower income people won?t even be paying taxes.  This is good for people making very little, right?

I?ll say it again....this is good for our country.  I?m not sure the people complaining about this, fully understand it.  Or, like I mentioned earlier...they?re just bitching because it?s not a Democrat doing it.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

The biggest tax cuts are for the rich and that's not a good thing. You really think an extra  $40-50 off each paycheck is really gonna help that much? Imo this doesn't help those who need it most enough. It hurts students, it hurts teachers and police officers. This is not a good tax plan no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

I'm not rich and I'm getting a tax cut so this plan is good for my family. An extra $4k a year I get to keep is very much a plus.
 
So if someone who makes much more than I do also gets to keep more of their own money that doesn't sway me to not like this tax plan.

[WAR41]

The biggest tax cuts are for the rich and that's not a good thing. You really think an extra  $40-50 off each paycheck is really gonna help that much? Imo this doesn't help those who need it most enough. It hurts students, it hurts teachers and police officers. This is not a good tax plan no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

Lol yes I do think $40-$50 per paycheck will help that much!  Put that away into a 401K and see what that money will be projected to be in the future!  Hell even an extra $10 per paycheck is great news to me.  Its crazy to me when people say what you're saying.  If that $40-$50 doesn't mean much to you then please send me that after each of your paychecks via PayPal.  I'll provide my PayPal info when you're ready. 

I also don't understand how it "hurts" students, teachers and police officers especially.  And quite frankly in case you haven't been following the news recently the pensions/salaries/benefits of teachers and police are out of control.  Even if it did "hurt" them I'm sure they'll still be doing just fine.

[WAR41]

Give me a break, Regan caused the biggest widening of the income gap in us history.

But if everyone has more spending power I fail to see how this is such a bad thing.  Outside of some thinking it is "not fair" that some one else got more money than them how can some one complain about having more money in their pockets? 

They complain because their party isn?t in office.  Whatever happens in the Whitehouse (even when it?s positive, like this situation), some will always complain.  And this goes for both sides.  However, they SHOULD NOT be complaining about these tax breaks if they understand basic economics.  It?s a good thing, and most people will be benefiting from it. 

I bolded what you said above.  As an economics major in college I think this is why I get so confused over the opposition to this bill, especially the corporate tax cuts. 

The best course I took in college was labor economics.  It was fascinating.  Some of the highlights for me were looking at the negative effects of tax increases (for both corporations and workers) on the workforce and how unions create artificial inflation and decrease our spending power.  A corporation's job is to maximize revenue.  If taxes go up and it is no longer feasible to operate in the US they will leave which we've seen over the last 20-30 years. Companies won't move operations back to the US overnight, but I think by the end of Trump's first term we'll see some manufacturing jobs return to the US that have vanished.  The Democrats can say all they want about Trump as a person in the next election, but if this guy puts more money in Americans' pockets and brings those blue collar jobs back to the United States who is going to vote against him?

The coal industry is another story 

[LunsJail]

The biggest tax cuts are for the rich and that's not a good thing. You really think an extra  $40-50 off each paycheck is really gonna help that much? Imo this doesn't help those who need it most enough. It hurts students, it hurts teachers and police officers. This is not a good tax plan no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

Lol yes I do think $40-$50 per paycheck will help that much!  Put that away into a 401K and see what that money will be projected to be in the future!  Hell even an extra $10 per paycheck is great news to me.  Its crazy to me when people say what you're saying.  If that $40-$50 doesn't mean much to you then please send me that after each of your paychecks via PayPal.  I'll provide my PayPal info when you're ready. 

I also don't understand how it "hurts" students, teachers and police officers especially.  And quite frankly in case you haven't been following the news recently the pensions/salaries/benefits of teachers and police are out of control.  Even if it did "hurt" them I'm sure they'll still be doing just fine.

I agree with many of your points on the benefit of the tax plan and labor economics. However, I will say that the pensions/salaries/benefits of teachers and police officers is going to vary greatly from one state to the next.  I live in a southern state and work in the mortgage business so I see what people make on a daily basis.  Teachers aren't that well paid and what police officers make in my town is a joke.  To the point where I don't know why anyone would take the risk and responsibility of being a police officer.

[damnthehaters]

Give me a break, Regan caused the biggest widening of the income gap in us history.

But if everyone has more spending power I fail to see how this is such a bad thing.  Outside of some thinking it is "not fair" that some one else got more money than them how can some one complain about having more money in their pockets? 

They complain because their party isn?t in office.  Whatever happens in the Whitehouse (even when it?s positive, like this situation), some will always complain.  And this goes for both sides.  However, they SHOULD NOT be complaining about these tax breaks if they understand basic economics.  It?s a good thing, and most people will be benefiting from it. 

I bolded what you said above.  As an economics major in college I think this is why I get so confused over the opposition to this bill, especially the corporate tax cuts. 

The best course I took in college was labor economics.  It was fascinating.  Some of the highlights for me were looking at the negative effects of tax increases (for both corporations and workers) on the workforce and how unions create artificial inflation and decrease our spending power.  A corporation's job is to maximize revenue.  If taxes go up and it is no longer feasible to operate in the US they will leave which we've seen over the last 20-30 years. Companies won't move operations back to the US overnight, but I think by the end of Trump's first term we'll see some manufacturing jobs return to the US that have vanished.  The Democrats can say all they want about Trump as a person in the next election, but if this guy puts more money in Americans' pockets and brings those blue collar jobs back to the United States who is going to vote against him?

The coal industry is another story 

I agree!

Basic Economics, unless we are missing something??🤔🧐  Sure wish more people would understand this so they wouldn?t get fooled by extreme leftists who want to trick and scare you, for votes.  Again, Bernie Sanders came out the other day saying with the deficit of 1 trillion that these tax breaks will create (not proven), we will have to cut Medicare and Social Security...lol. This is a scare tactic for the elderly and a lot of the younger generation.  Did Obama cut Social Security and Medicare when he put us in debt about 10 times that much, ha...??    NO

[tim_m]

The biggest tax cuts are for the rich and that's not a good thing. You really think an extra  $40-50 off each paycheck is really gonna help that much? Imo this doesn't help those who need it most enough. It hurts students, it hurts teachers and police officers. This is not a good tax plan no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

Lol yes I do think $40-$50 per paycheck will help that much!  Put that away into a 401K and see what that money will be projected to be in the future!  Hell even an extra $10 per paycheck is great news to me.  Its crazy to me when people say what you're saying.  If that $40-$50 doesn't mean much to you then please send me that after each of your paychecks via PayPal.  I'll provide my PayPal info when you're ready. 

I also don't understand how it "hurts" students, teachers and police officers especially.  And quite frankly in case you haven't been following the news recently the pensions/salaries/benefits of teachers and police are out of control.  Even if it did "hurt" them I'm sure they'll still be doing just fine.

I agree with many of your points on the benefit of the tax plan and labor economics. However, I will say that the pensions/salaries/benefits of teachers and police officers is going to vary greatly from one state to the next.  I live in a southern state and work in the mortgage business so I see what people make on a daily basis.  Teachers aren't that well paid and what police officers make in my town is a joke.  To the point where I don't know why anyone would take the risk and responsibility of being a police officer.

And the tax plan removes provisions allowing them to write off things like school supplies and uniforms. Police officers and teachers are already woefully underpaid. Now they're gonna be screwed even more. These are people who should be among the highest paid!