Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[AxlsMainMan]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.

There is actual evidence of Trump bragging to Billy Bush about sexually assaulting women, and yet your shock and outrage is strangely, yet predictably, reserved for Al Franken.

[GypsySoul]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.

Actually, the sexual assault part (him grabbing her and forcibly kissing her) isn't "actual evidence," it's he said, she said.  (He said he doesn't remember it the way she does.) 

As for the picture, he's not physically touching her so it's not "assault".  At most, it's a juvenile/moronic stunt enacted by a comedian.

If this was the extent of his sexual aggression, I don't see any reason for him to resign.

There is actual evidence of Trump bragging to Billy Bush about sexually assaulting women, and yet your shock and outrage is strangely, yet predictably, reserved for Al Franken.

Bragging isn't actual evidence of sexually assaulting anyone.


Just my perspective as both a female and a Republican.

[chineseblues]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.

So you believe Roy Moore (should he win) and Donny boy should resign as well? Shocked you couldn't see why I asked it.

[chineseblues]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.

Actually, the sexual assault part (him grabbing her and forcibly kissing her) isn't "actual evidence," it's he said, she said.  (He said he doesn't remember it the way she does.) 

As for the picture, he's not physically touching her so it's not "assault".  At most, it's a juvenile/moronic stunt enacted by a comedian.

If this was the extent of his sexual aggression, I don't see any reason for him to resign.

There is actual evidence of Trump bragging to Billy Bush about sexually assaulting women, and yet your shock and outrage is strangely, yet predictably, reserved for Al Franken.

Bragging isn't actual evidence of sexually assaulting anyone.


Just my perspective as both a female and a Republican.

Confessing to grabbing women by the pussy because he can get away with it is not evidence of sexual assault?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.

Actually, the sexual assault part (him grabbing her and forcibly kissing her) isn't "actual evidence," it's he said, she said.  (He said he doesn't remember it the way she does.) 

As for the picture, he's not physically touching her so it's not "assault".  At most, it's a juvenile/moronic stunt enacted by a comedian.

If this was the extent of his sexual aggression, I don't see any reason for him to resign.

There is actual evidence of Trump bragging to Billy Bush about sexually assaulting women, and yet your shock and outrage is strangely, yet predictably, reserved for Al Franken.

Bragging isn't actual evidence of sexually assaulting anyone.


Just my perspective as both a female and a Republican.

Confessing to grabbing women by the pussy because he can get away with it is not evidence of sexual assault?

Ever heard of someone that was full of shit boasting about something female related?   Its juvenile and stupid, but that isn't exactly evidence.

[chineseblues]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.

Actually, the sexual assault part (him grabbing her and forcibly kissing her) isn't "actual evidence," it's he said, she said.  (He said he doesn't remember it the way she does.) 

As for the picture, he's not physically touching her so it's not "assault".  At most, it's a juvenile/moronic stunt enacted by a comedian.

If this was the extent of his sexual aggression, I don't see any reason for him to resign.

There is actual evidence of Trump bragging to Billy Bush about sexually assaulting women, and yet your shock and outrage is strangely, yet predictably, reserved for Al Franken.

Bragging isn't actual evidence of sexually assaulting anyone.


Just my perspective as both a female and a Republican.

Confessing to grabbing women by the pussy because he can get away with it is not evidence of sexual assault?

Ever heard of someone that was full of shit boasting about something female related?   Its juvenile and stupid, but that isn't exactly evidence.

So are you now saying you voted for a man to be president that is full of shit? You can't have it both ways, either it's the truth or trump is a serial liar. Neither option is a good one for a president.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

From Moore to Franken, freakiness knows no party: Kennedy

By Lisa Kennedy Montgomery Published November 16, 2017



It's a tale of tawdry tentacles in the Senate as the latest Al Franken allegations add a layer of intrigue to potential senator Roy Moore's ongoing crises.

Roy Moore used to be famous for the Ten Commandments, but now it's nearly 10 women who are commanding the spotlight and tanking his chances of becoming a U.S. Senator.

With numerous accusers whittling themselves out of the woodwork each day, Moore is suffocating under the weight of gossip and his improbable innocence. Deep red Alabama is going to have to decide who they'll send to the Senate, but it's got embattled Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's panties in a bundle: what on earth can they do about joy boy Roy?

If he's guilty, he's a creepy pederast with more glitches than the new iPhone, and he's just crazy enough to stay in the race.

In the meantime, current Senator Al Franken could resign and Republicans will no doubt war game to try and flip his seat to a fellow elephant, which would make the senatorial math even fuzzier. There are a couple of scenarios here: Franken could resign and the numbers would most likely stay the same, or he could stay and wound his party causing optical challenges in the midterms. The Moore situation is far more fluid.

In the off chance he wins, it would be wildly hypocritical of the GOP to threaten unseating the tighty whitey because they're unhappy with the results. It's hard to criticize Democrats who are trying to do the exact same thing to the president.

Franken's troubles further complicate that as he's used the hashtag #MeToo on social media, and Dems no longer have the moral high ground as freakiness knows no party.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/11/16/from-moore-to-franken-freakiness-knows-no-party-kennedy.html

[chineseblues]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Ah, the old "tolerate intolerance" argument. You might as well argue it is hypocritical to have police use force against violent criminals to preserve peace and order. This argument has been thoroughly debunked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/should-we-tolerate-the-intolerant

And I highly doubt he will actually enforce any kind of policy to keep Trump supporting fans out of his shows. He was simply making it clear that they are not welcome.

Triggered 

Just the kind of juvenile ad-hominem dodge I expected. You can't counter my argument so you resort to tone policing.

Also, nothing in my post suggested I was angry whatsoever. So you've even failed at your own weak attempt at an ad-hominem fallacy. I swear it's like you're trying to prove that nobody should take anything you say seriously by acting like the biggest child possible...

He proved that ages ago with his posts in the election thread. It's all snowflakes, triggered bullshit because he can't have an actual intelligent conversation.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Congrats to Doug Jones for being the eventual winner and turning Alabama blue next month since Moore is too egotistical to see that he is damaged goods now. These charges were obviously sat on only to be revealed when they could inflict the maximum political damage. Very dirty politics and these women are being used as tools, but I also believe the accusations happen to be true.  Someone needed to tell Moore 'not to my knowledge' isn't a good answer when defending yourself.

[chineseblues]

Congrats to Doug Jones for being the eventual winner and turning Alabama blue next month since Moore is too egotistical to see that he is damaged goods now. These charges were obviously sat on only to be revealed when they could inflict the maximum political damage. Very dirty politics and these women are being used as tools, but I also believe the accusations happen to be true.  Someone needed to tell Moore 'not to my knowledge' isn't a good answer when defending yourself.

Like the way trump brought out bills accusers at the debate? That kind of dirty politics?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Congrats to Doug Jones for being the eventual winner and turning Alabama blue next month since Moore is too egotistical to see that he is damaged goods now. These charges were obviously sat on only to be revealed when they could inflict the maximum political damage. Very dirty politics and these women are being used as tools, but I also believe the accusations happen to be true.  Someone needed to tell Moore 'not to my knowledge' isn't a good answer when defending yourself.

Like the way trump brought out bills accusers at the debate? That kind of dirty politics?

Those women were called bimbos and liars by Hillary.

[chineseblues]

Congrats to Doug Jones for being the eventual winner and turning Alabama blue next month since Moore is too egotistical to see that he is damaged goods now. These charges were obviously sat on only to be revealed when they could inflict the maximum political damage. Very dirty politics and these women are being used as tools, but I also believe the accusations happen to be true.  Someone needed to tell Moore 'not to my knowledge' isn't a good answer when defending yourself.

Like the way trump brought out bills accusers at the debate? That kind of dirty politics?

Those women were called bimbos and liars by Hillary.

Why is it always okay when your guy does it?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Congrats to Doug Jones for being the eventual winner and turning Alabama blue next month since Moore is too egotistical to see that he is damaged goods now. These charges were obviously sat on only to be revealed when they could inflict the maximum political damage. Very dirty politics and these women are being used as tools, but I also believe the accusations happen to be true.  Someone needed to tell Moore 'not to my knowledge' isn't a good answer when defending yourself.

Like the way trump brought out bills accusers at the debate? That kind of dirty politics?

Those women were called bimbos and liars by Hillary.

Why is it always okay when your guy does it?

The Clinton women didn't all stay silent for 30+ years and go public a month before an election. Different situation.

[tim_m]

But you still do believe Moore's accusers.

[chineseblues]

Congrats to Doug Jones for being the eventual winner and turning Alabama blue next month since Moore is too egotistical to see that he is damaged goods now. These charges were obviously sat on only to be revealed when they could inflict the maximum political damage. Very dirty politics and these women are being used as tools, but I also believe the accusations happen to be true.  Someone needed to tell Moore 'not to my knowledge' isn't a good answer when defending yourself.

Like the way trump brought out bills accusers at the debate? That kind of dirty politics?

Those women were called bimbos and liars by Hillary.

Why is it always okay when your guy does it?

The Clinton women didn't all stay silent for 30+ years and go public a month before an election. Different situation.

It amazes me how many mental hoops you have to jump through to continue to defend trump.


For anyone interested, this is the best breakdown I've seen of the collusion between trump and Russia. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7donxv/comment/dpzcemd?st=1Z141Z3&sh=c386b9f1

[sandman]

I?m just not as intelligent as you, chineseblues, and all your sjw compadres. No need to be nasty about it.

[damnthehaters]

Trump definitely has his faults, but hearing you liberals cry on a daily basis is getting so friggen old.  Be careful what you say, because many of those bitching are complete hypocrites that never seem to find fault in themselves or their democratic leaders.  And yes, the few times GNR members have spoken up on certain topics, I've laughed.  Didn't hear them speak up when certain democrats have done the same stuff.    

In the past, democratic leaders have been horrible on trade, horrible negotiators, messed up the economy, created racial divides, have been cheating in the White House, have lied, etc.  But for some reason, Trump tops all of this huh?  A childish narcissist is worse than all that right?    

Some of these comments are     My favorite...."he's a racist".  Where do you get that from...CNN and the liberal media?  Let me tell you, the liberal media pushes the democratic agenda, which in part, is to appeal to minorities...to get votes.  The democrats play minorities like pawns.  

  

[sandman]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Ah, the old "tolerate intolerance" argument. You might as well argue it is hypocritical to have police use force against violent criminals to preserve peace and order. This argument has been thoroughly debunked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/should-we-tolerate-the-intolerant

And I highly doubt he will actually enforce any kind of policy to keep Trump supporting fans out of his shows. He was simply making it clear that they are not welcome.

Triggered 

Just the kind of juvenile ad-hominem dodge I expected. You can't counter my argument so you resort to tone policing.

Also, nothing in my post suggested I was angry whatsoever. So you've even failed at your own weak attempt at an ad-hominem fallacy. I swear it's like you're trying to prove that nobody should take anything you say seriously by acting like the biggest child possible...

Are u a psychiatrist?

I hope u find a safe place for the weekend so u can deal with your feelings.

I say we keep political discussions in the Jungle where they belong, and leave this thread to focus on the great topic it was set up for.

[damnthehaters]

Yes, you choose. I believe in the ideas of democracy. Freedom of speech is necassary for democracy, so Eminem, Axl, you, me, mentally ill or not, addict or not can say what they/we want about what they/we want.

Here's the problem though.  For those people who believe in this, they shouldn't then bitch when Trump voices his opinions, right?  Or are Presidents supposed to sit back, keep their opinions in, and be politically correct? 

[PermissionToLand]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Ah, the old "tolerate intolerance" argument. You might as well argue it is hypocritical to have police use force against violent criminals to preserve peace and order. This argument has been thoroughly debunked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/should-we-tolerate-the-intolerant

And I highly doubt he will actually enforce any kind of policy to keep Trump supporting fans out of his shows. He was simply making it clear that they are not welcome.

Triggered 

Just the kind of juvenile ad-hominem dodge I expected. You can't counter my argument so you resort to tone policing.

Also, nothing in my post suggested I was angry whatsoever. So you've even failed at your own weak attempt at an ad-hominem fallacy. I swear it's like you're trying to prove that nobody should take anything you say seriously by acting like the biggest child possible...

Are u a psychiatrist?

I hope u find a safe place for the weekend so u can deal with your feelings.

I say we keep political discussions in the Jungle where they belong, and leave this thread to focus on the great topic it was set up for.

Uh, nothing I said had anything to do with psychiatric evaluation. Way to make a fool of yourself yet again...

Could you try any harder to prove my point? Go ahead, throw out some more meaningless alt right buzzwords because you HAVE NO ARGUMENT. Prove my point yet again, dullard.

Ironically, it is clearly you who is getting upset and "triggered" into lashing out with your favorite buzzwords because you cannot counter opposing opinions like an adult and you need a "safe space". The height of hypocrisy.

Trump definitely has his faults, but hearing you liberals cry on a daily basis is getting so friggen old.  Be careful what you say, because many of those bitching are complete hypocrites that never seem to find fault in themselves or their democratic leaders.  And yes, the few times GNR members have spoken up on certain topics, I've laughed.  Didn't hear them speak up when certain democrats have done the same stuff.    

In the past, democratic leaders have been horrible on trade, horrible negotiators, messed up the economy, created racial divides, have been cheating in the White House, have lied, etc.  But for some reason, Trump tops all of this huh?  A childish narcissist is worse than all that right?    

Some of these comments are     My favorite...."he's a racist".  Where do you get that from...CNN and the liberal media?  Let me tell you, the liberal media pushes the democratic agenda, which in part, is to appeal to minorities...to get votes.  The democrats play minorities like pawns.

Jesus Christ, you are a piece of work. Totally unsubstantiated cries of hypocrisy with no evidence given whatsoever and then trying to paint the entire left wing with that imaginary brush. Get fucking real.

Tell me, when has a Democrat bragged about sexually assaulting women? When has a Democrat said there are "some good Nazis" or called Mexicans rapists? What planet are you living on? The cognitive dissonance is suffocating.

The next part of your post is pure, unadulterated bias. Dems are "bad on trade"? NAFTA, PNTRC and CAFTA were all bipartisan, do you know a single thing about anything you speak of? "Horrible negotiators"? The Iran deal and the Paris agreement were literal historic milestones and massive achievements in foreign negotiation, which Trump has now sabotaged and set us back horrifically on. Again, you clearly know nothing of what you speak. "Messed up the economy"? Oh, you mean like Clinton giving us a massive economic expansion and leaving with a SURPLUS? Or Obama saving us from the disaster Bush created? Crack a damn economics textbook for once in your life. "Created racial divides"... I would LOVE to see a source for that ridiculous claim. I'll wait.

And on top of all that, you actually have the gall to claim Trump is not a racist? He announced his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and said there are good Nazis. If that is not racist, nothing is. You are arguing that the sky is purple. Do not gaslight us, you coward. Disgusting and reprehensible.

Here's the problem though.  For those people who believe in this, they shouldn't then bitch when Trump voices his opinions, right?  Or are Presidents supposed to sit back, keep their opinions in, and be politically correct? 

The first amendment only protects people from GOVERNMENT censorship. It says nothing about the court of public opinion. Trump has the right to defend child molester Roy Moore and literal Fascist Nazis, and we have the right to call him a cretin and scum of the earth for saying it.