Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[chineseblues]

No one here is cheerleeding for Hillary. She lost, she's not in the White House and she isn't president. You guys are focused on her tho (and not just today) instead of focusing on an investigation that is showing more and more that trumps campaign colluded with Russians. Ya know real illegal shit and not just some buttery males. Like pilferk said, time for you to visit reality for awhile.

I've heard a lot of speculation but no evidence yet. This is the reality of it.

You wouldn't know reality if it hit you in the face.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

No one here is cheerleeding for Hillary. She lost, she's not in the White House and she isn't president. You guys are focused on her tho (and not just today) instead of focusing on an investigation that is showing more and more that trumps campaign colluded with Russians. Ya know real illegal shit and not just some buttery males. Like pilferk said, time for you to visit reality for awhile.

I've heard a lot of speculation but no evidence yet. This is the reality of it.

You wouldn't know reality if it hit you in the face.

Let's see the evidence.

[tim_m]

So i called it. White man with a gun kills 58 and injures over 500, Trump basically says crazy man with a gun shit happens offers no solution like sensible gun laws. Isil sympathizer from Russia plows down pedestrians on a bike trail killing 8 and injuring dozens within hours Trump calls for ending diversity visa program by which perpetrator entered the US. If you don't see the problem here you are blind as a fucking bat.

I agree we can use more sensible gun laws. We also don't need a diversity visa program. We don't have a diversity problem. No one has a right to come here.

Regardless my point was he immediately had some solution for this but not the psycho white man.

[pilferk]

No one here is cheerleeding for Hillary. She lost, she's not in the White House and she isn't president. You guys are focused on her tho (and not just today) instead of focusing on an investigation that is showing more and more that trumps campaign colluded with Russians. Ya know real illegal shit and not just some buttery males. Like pilferk said, time for you to visit reality for awhile.

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who sees how transparent this is. 

Or how wide the double standard is when it comes to requiring "evidence" before starting to suspect something fishy is going on.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

So i called it. White man with a gun kills 58 and injures over 500, Trump basically says crazy man with a gun shit happens offers no solution like sensible gun laws. Isil sympathizer from Russia plows down pedestrians on a bike trail killing 8 and injuring dozens within hours Trump calls for ending diversity visa program by which perpetrator entered the US. If you don't see the problem here you are blind as a fucking bat.

I agree we can use more sensible gun laws. We also don't need a diversity visa program. We don't have a diversity problem. No one has a right to come here.

Regardless my point was he immediately had some solution for this but not the psycho white man.

Both are different situations though. One is an American that had no prior record to red flag him and we don't know his motivation other than obvious mental illness. . The other came here on a diversity program visa from overseas, yelled Allahu Akbar during the attack & If I remember correctly was someone the FBI was interested in a few years ago. He now   wants an ISIS flag in his hospital room.  Banning bump stocks ( these are fuckin stupid and have no practical use) and calling for improving background searches I could get on board  with and yes Trump could have brought these up as solutions. One was a psycho American white man and the other a psycho central Asian man. Their ethnicity doesn't really make a big difference as much as their religious motivation and country of origin.. 
 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

No one here is cheerleeding for Hillary. She lost, she's not in the White House and she isn't president. You guys are focused on her tho (and not just today) instead of focusing on an investigation that is showing more and more that trumps campaign colluded with Russians. Ya know real illegal shit and not just some buttery males. Like pilferk said, time for you to visit reality for awhile.

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who sees how transparent this is. 

Or how wide the double standard is when it comes to requiring "evidence" before starting to suspect something fishy is going on.

I know everyone likes a pat on the back sometimes, so there ya go.

Yes, something fishy could be going on. That is what the Mueller investigation is for.

In comparison, we have actual evidence on Hillary. Anything to comment on the Donna Brazile article? This should infuriate anyone who is a democrat & wasn't in the tank for her.  Very well could be the worst thing she's ever done.

[pilferk]

No one here is cheerleeding for Hillary. She lost, she's not in the White House and she isn't president. You guys are focused on her tho (and not just today) instead of focusing on an investigation that is showing more and more that trumps campaign colluded with Russians. Ya know real illegal shit and not just some buttery males. Like pilferk said, time for you to visit reality for awhile.

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who sees how transparent this is. 

Or how wide the double standard is when it comes to requiring "evidence" before starting to suspect something fishy is going on.

I know everyone likes a pat on the back sometimes, so there ya go.

Yes, something fishy could be going on. That is what the Mueller investigation is for.

In comparison, we have actual evidence on Hillary. Anything to comment on the Donna Brazile article? This should infuriate anyone who is a democrat & wasn't in the tank for her.  Very well could be the worst thing she's ever done.

We have no more "evidence" on hrc than we have trump. Look at his sons admissions and emails. Look at the plea deal. Read between the lines a bit on the indictments. And far less evidence for much of the conservative spin that is presented here regarding hrc as....i don't even know what.... since the election is over and she lost. Oh, wait...yes i do. Misdirection. Witness fearless leaders unhinged tweet stream this morning.

On the inner workings of the dnc: Nope. I just dont care. They should get their shit together? Though i suspect if you took a hard look at the rnc sausage making, you wouldn't find much better in terms of ethical practices. Both parties organizations suck.

I said, when the rumblings of this came out during the election, it sucks..esp for Bernie supporters. But...indies in ct don't get to vote in the primaries, so it effects...and interests...me not a whit.

I'm not a dem, and as you can very clearly see from my posts during the election....I didn't particularly like her as a candidate either. If evan mcmullin (a republican, fyi) has been on cts ballot......

But thats the point: hillary didnt win, isnt an elected official, and has no influence on our daily lives. The continued hard on for her from conservatives/trump supporters says more about them than it does about her. The campaign is over. Why does she matter?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

No one here is cheerleeding for Hillary. She lost, she's not in the White House and she isn't president. You guys are focused on her tho (and not just today) instead of focusing on an investigation that is showing more and more that trumps campaign colluded with Russians. Ya know real illegal shit and not just some buttery males. Like pilferk said, time for you to visit reality for awhile.

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who sees how transparent this is. 

Or how wide the double standard is when it comes to requiring "evidence" before starting to suspect something fishy is going on.

I know everyone likes a pat on the back sometimes, so there ya go.

Yes, something fishy could be going on. That is what the Mueller investigation is for.

In comparison, we have actual evidence on Hillary. Anything to comment on the Donna Brazile article? This should infuriate anyone who is a democrat & wasn't in the tank for her.  Very well could be the worst thing she's ever done.

We have no more "evidence" on hrc than we have trump. Look at his sons admissions and emails. Look at the plea deal. Read between the lines a bit on the indictments. And far less evidence for much of the conservative spin that is presented here regarding hrc as....i don't even know what.... since the election is over and she lost. Oh, wait...yes i do. Misdirection. Witness fearless leaders unhinged tweet stream this morning.

On the inner workings of the dnc: Nope. I just dont care. They should get their shit together? Though i suspect if you took a hard look at the rnc sausage making, you wouldn't find much better in terms of ethical practices. Both parties organizations suck.

I said, when the rumblings of this came out during the election, it sucks..esp for Bernie supporters. But...indies in ct don't get to vote in the primaries, so it effects...and interests...me not a whit.

I'm not a dem, and as you can very clearly see from my posts during the election....I didn't particularly like her as a candidate either. If evan mcmullin (a republican, fyi) has been on cts ballot......

But thats the point: hillary didnt win, isnt an elected official, and has no influence on our daily lives. The continued hard on for her from conservatives/trump supporters says more about them than it does about her. The campaign is over. Why does she matter?

She matters because she was in positions of power and misused and abused those positions greatly. We should care about this & she should be held accountable.

You can thank Hillary for Trump being in the White House. Bernie Sanders would have had a good chance to get the nomination if Hillary didn't stack the deck for herself. And Bernie would have likely beaten Trump in the general election. No one had enthusiasm for Hillary. Yeah, I know Ive said this way back when but it still holds true. Even Elizabeth Warren says the nomination was rigged for Hillary.

Bottom line, no one should skate by if they've broken the law. This goes for Trump as well. If those dots can be connected with some evidence put him on trial. 

[pilferk]

She matters because she was in positions of power and ALLEGEDLY misused and abused those positions greatly. We should care about this & she should be held accountable.

First of all, fixed that bit, above, for you, with the bit in bold.  But leaving it out proves my point.  Thanks!  You've already judged her guilty.   But I note..you're a lot more careful when it comes to Trump. One wonders why that might be, eh?

Second, Sure.  But that's not what I asked.  I asked why does SHE matter? What effect is she currently having (other than her existence pissing off conservatives)?  I can point to 10 people in the Trump organization who have allegedly (and sometimes more than allegedly...sometimes admittedly or "documentedly") done the same thing.   5 of them have resigned (most recently Tom Price).

And which is the more immediate, pressing, need for resources? Granny? Or the leader of the free world?  And which should be of primary concern to the american people.  Because ONE is sure getting a LOT more focus than the other in the conservative spin room (and by certain posters here).  And it's not the one based in need (or reality).  It's the one being used as a political tool, that their followers adopt hook, line, and sinker.  The feigned outrage notwithstanding.

On top of that, given this administrations issues with the truth, and Trumps stated goals (and practice) to use his bully pulpit to squash (or try to) political advesaries....THERE'S actual reason to question their impartiality.  But I notice no mention of that. Because the conservatives have read all the memes, bought into all the Fox News/Breitbart (you know Bannon is the original source of the Uranium one story, right? that he funded Schweizer's book? And that none of the "facts" in that book were ever verified or peer reviewed?) propaganda and judged she's guilty (witness your own first sentence, prior to correction, above)...so it doesn't matter one whit what the ACTUAL facts of the case are (for example, on Uranium One...which YOU mentioned which is complete an utter hogwash) or whether it's ACTUALLY already been investigated.

Because, the truth is...the HRC focus isn't fueled by a sense of justice from those spoon feeding this propaganda to the masses (and leaving out actual facts and details that debunk or tarnish those accusations....like the guy (Giustra) who donated most of the money attributed to having been from "Uranium One"....140 of the 145 million to be exact...SOLD HIS SHARES IN THAT COMPANY THREE YEARS BEFORE THE SALE OR THE DONATIONS HAPPENED? ).  There are lies, damn lies, an conservative spin.  It's fueled by hate, and a burning need to switch topics from the guy(s) that is actually STILL doing newsworthy shit. Misdirection.

I'd also add: DB says pretty categorically in her book that what HRC did wasn't illegal with the DNC.  Just unethical.  So....nothing to really investigate.  That doesn't make it less slimy, but it sure makes it less relevant.

I find it really ODD, considering how much I dislike HRC, how flawed a candidate I think she was, and how utterly slimy I think she is that I'm left to sit here and "defend" her.  I rather like the part where I get to call her irrelevant....but it is ASTOUNDING how little people buying into the conservative spin will actually check the facts and events its based on.  Even when the evidence is put right in their faces.

They'll wiggle, they'll question why you linked huffpost instead of the washington post (even though it's there, too).  They won't engage in the simplest 30 second google search to look at a fact check site to see what's being fed to them is dog shit.  You questioned my echo chamber comments earlier......but what else is the above if not that? 

No one should skate by. This goes for Trump as well. If those dots can be connected with some evidence put him on trial.

See the Sessions stories (esp the updated one in the NYT) this morning?  Another nice, big, dot. Followed by a Trump tirade about HRC, for, I suspect, exactly the reasons I've laid out: Misdirection of his base.

Edit: No, we can't thank Hillary for Trump.  We can thank people that voted for him. Period.  It's their responsibility...whatever happens from here on out.  Because he won. That's the way elections work.  You can't vote "against" someone, whatever your internal reasoning is.  You vote for someone, or you don't vote. Own it.

And damn it, I have more important shit to do.  Changing my book mark so it's not dropping me on this page anymore to read.  I'm tired of being the voice of reason and reality......its a thankless, frustrating job that does no good. 

Enjoy the spin room.  Just don't eat before entering, you might puke.

[sandman]

happy anniversary!!! 


MULLANE: Explaining Trump?s election to Blue Jerseyans

By JD Mullane

Posted Nov 7, 2017 at 8:24 PM
     
In a shock one year ago today, Donald Trump defeated Hillary Clinton. Progressives are in disbelief. Here?s why Trump is president, and it ain?t ?the Russians.?

It was certain that Hillary Clinton would be president.

The pollsters said so, as did the pundits and Pulitzer-winning journos who appear on TV.

Then, shortly before 9 p.m. Eastern time, on Nov. 8, 2016, it flipped. Reliably Democratic blue states turned Republican red for Donald Trump.

It shocked. Still does. Explanations have been offered, the most popular being Trump?s alleged collusion with the Russians to rig the election.

Whatever. Trumpians will celebrate today, the one-year anniversary of the Manhattan billionaire builder?s stunning and unlikely election as our 45th president.

Trumpers today will walk with a spring in their step. They may even break out into ?O! What a Beautiful Morning!? YouTube video compilations of sour-faced lefty network anchors at the moment they realized Hillary lost will be replayed, and enjoyed.

If you are a Hillary supporter, you might ask, ?When do I awake from this orange nightmare??

Not happening. Even a year later, Trump would beat Clinton, according to a report in Tuesday?s Washington Post. This revoltin? predicament is probably why several thousand people will gather at Philadelphia?s City Hall at 6 o?clock tonight to scream helplessly at the sky to protest Trump?s election. (The event is called ?Scream Helplessly at the Sky.?)

It?s hard to get a handle on it here in the deep-blue state of New Jersey, but progressives must face reality. Nationally, Democrats have been reduced to a regional party clustered on the coasts and within large, impoverished cities. Republicans and independents own America.

The party?s demise happened over the Barack Obama years, as Dems lost more than 1,000 elected seats at state and local levels, and most of the governorships and state legislatures, culminating in Trump?s election.

Still in denial? You may suffer from Pauline Kael syndrome. Pauline Kael was the sharp, politically liberal film critic for The New Yorker who rarely ventured from Manhattan. In 1972, when Richard Nixon swamped Democrat George McGovern for the presidency, she was puzzled.

?I only know one person who voted for Nixon,? Kael said. ?Where (all these Nixon voters) are, I don?t know.?

(Sometimes her quote is recast as, ?How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him.?

Some 62 million people voted for Trump, more than six times the population of Manhattan and the Garden State combined.

How did it happen?

White working-class men without college degrees were fed up and voted like a minority voting bloc in reliably Democratic Rust Belt states, including my own, Pennsylvania.

There, in heavily Democratic Lower Bucks County, where I live, I noticed Trump signs on lawns that I knew to be the homes of Democrats who had voted for Obama, twice.

Among them was Chuck Clayton, of Levittown, a lifelong Democrat, party committeeman, and chairman of the Bristol Township Zoning Board. Chuck had Trump signs on his house. He showed me a stack of them in the bed of his pickup truck and told me he was giving them mostly to ? gulp! ? other Democrats.

A straight-talking union carpenter, Chuck explained his problem with his party. It abandoned loyal guys like him, who had been its backbone for decades. Work for him had dried up under Obama, as builders employed cheap labor of illegal immigrants.

So it was with each of the Democrats in Levittown who had planted Trump yard signs.

They told me they felt they had fallen from the middle class. All they wanted were good-paying jobs, not extended unemployment. They preferred their old private medical insurance, not lousy ?Obamacare.?

They also didn?t want endless, pointless wars, since many of them had children or extended family serving in the military.

For some, it was also personal. After Hillary described Trump?s supporters as ?deplorables,? her infamous catch-all word for white men she deemed racist, sexist, misogynistic homophobes who also hate/fear Muslims, one Democratic Trump supporter told me, ?She reminds divorced men of their first wife.?

Yowza.

All that these ordinary mugs heard from smug Republicans is the ?beauty? of capitalism?s ?creative destruction,? which is how Republicans explain their disastrous trade deals that sent union jobs to Mexico to pay workers centavos on the dollar.

All these working men heard from smug Democrats is that the party had an EBT card to buy a chicken for every pot, although maybe not for deplorable middle-age males who didn?t go to college.

A year ago, millions of these people went to the polls and tossed a hand grenade into the political establishment, aiming to bring it down.

[PermissionToLand]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

[C0ma]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

[allwaystired]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Good points, and I think in most cases you'd be absolutely right.

But Trump......a mentally unwell, homicidal, racist, sexist, maniac, hell bent on selling not just America, but the environment and the world downriver for a few more bucks for him and his cronies? Yeah- they can say it! We're talking next-level lunacy here.

When's his state visit to the UK again?! Oh, yeah, he's not coming now because he's too scared of an entire nation who absolutely despise him, and the embarrassment that the protests would cause him, alongside the difficulty of using his tactic of total denial.

Ah, I dunno. I despair of this shit. Feel pretty sorry for the many, many rational, intelligent Americans, living in a beautiful country and having to deal with all this. Can't blame anyone for speaking out, musicians or otherwise. It's a difficult time for them.

[PermissionToLand]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i’m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I’d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:“If you’re a Trump dummy and you don’t like progressives, Don’t come to my show asshole.” Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Ah, the old "tolerate intolerance" argument. You might as well argue it is hypocritical to have police use force against violent criminals to preserve peace and order. This argument has been thoroughly debunked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/should-we-tolerate-the-intolerant

And I highly doubt he will actually enforce any kind of policy to keep Trump supporting fans out of his shows. He was simply making it clear that they are not welcome.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

There's no room for open mindedness and tolerance for fascists.

[sandman]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Ah, the old "tolerate intolerance" argument. You might as well argue it is hypocritical to have police use force against violent criminals to preserve peace and order. This argument has been thoroughly debunked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/should-we-tolerate-the-intolerant

And I highly doubt he will actually enforce any kind of policy to keep Trump supporting fans out of his shows. He was simply making it clear that they are not welcome.

Triggered 

[sandman]

awesome week for trump. successful meetings with China, got criminal scumbags released from a communist country, progress on tax reform, economy doing well, middle class improving, progress in the middle east, Dems and Hollywood exploding, SNL making fun of the democratic party, savage tweets triggering SJWs....Al Frankenstein!!! classic.

gotta get Tax Reform done or he's got nothing major to point to. tough battle since he is fighting the GOP and dems.

Drain the Swamp!

 

[chineseblues]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

[PermissionToLand]

The point is dont be a fuckin snowflake and bitch and cry about your prez and hope others do the same. It may make you feel better having your favorite band criticize your prez, but i?m guessing u would feel different if gnr shows turned into pro-trump rallies.

Personally i hate it either way because it divides your audience. I?d rather 50,000 people come together for one day and celebrate music.

You should know that using the word "snowflake" discredits your opinion in adult company.

But when they look down upon some of their fans for not sharing said opinion or tell the audience how they should vote, what they should think, etc I have a real problem with that. GNR has been pretty good about not doing this.

When has any artist ever directly told their fans what to think or who to vote for? Even announcing support for a candidate is very different from TELLING fans to vote for them. Eminem told any of his fans who support Trump that he does not want them as fans. He did not tell them what to think in any way.

I don't have a horse in this race... As I don't really care one way or another what an entertainers political point of view is... I'm using their entertainment as an escape from 'reality' for the 1-3+ hours that they are performing. If I got my feathers all ruffled anytime anyone took a shot at the right I'd have a pretty shallow pool of performers to follow.

However that last point about Eminem... don't you think that could be viewed as an ultimatum? Same as the recent David Crosby quote:?If you?re a Trump dummy and you don?t like progressives, Don?t come to my show asshole.? Seems pretty close minded and non inclusive, everything that 'liberals' are supposed to be about?

Ah, the old "tolerate intolerance" argument. You might as well argue it is hypocritical to have police use force against violent criminals to preserve peace and order. This argument has been thoroughly debunked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/deconstructing-the-tolerance-paradox-why-conservatives-go-to-line-is-garbage-666a1bf04a65

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/should-we-tolerate-the-intolerant

And I highly doubt he will actually enforce any kind of policy to keep Trump supporting fans out of his shows. He was simply making it clear that they are not welcome.

Triggered 

Just the kind of juvenile ad-hominem dodge I expected. You can't counter my argument so you resort to tone policing.

Also, nothing in my post suggested I was angry whatsoever. So you've even failed at your own weak attempt at an ad-hominem fallacy. I swear it's like you're trying to prove that nobody should take anything you say seriously by acting like the biggest child possible...

[sandman]

Do you think Franken should resign over this issue?

Who doesnt? There is actual evidence of him sexually assaulting a woman. Shocked you would even ask that.