Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[Dr. Blutarsky]

FACT CHECK: Did Trump Make It Easier For The Mentally Ill To Get Guns?

ABC late night host Jimmy Kimmel claimed that President Donald Trump ?signed a bill that made it easier for people with severe mental illness to buy guns legally? during a Monday segment.

Kimmel?s claim was part of a longer monologue arguing for greater gun control measures in the wake of a Las Vegas mass shooting that left nearly 60 dead and over 500 wounded.

Verdict: True

Trump did scrap an Obama-era regulation concerning mental illness reporting for gun background checks. Given the narrow scope of application for this regulation, however, Trump?s legislative move did not effectively prevent most mentally ill Americans from being barred from legally purchasing firearms.

Fact Check:

The ?bill? that Kimmel referred to in his monologue was House Joint Resolution (H.J.) 40, signed into law by Trump on February 28. The legislative move ?disapprove[d]? of ? removed ? a rule finalized by the Social Security Administration (SSA) in December 2016 under then President Barack Obama. The rule, although it never went into full effect, was intended to ?reduce gun violence? by improving ?reporting to the background check system? in place for firearm purchasers.

The new rule required the SSA to report a list of Americans with mental impairment to the FBI?s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Should any of these Americans then seek to purchase a firearm, their mental condition would appear on legally mandated background checks and block the transaction. Many states already report residents? mental health records to NICS.

Under the SSA?s now-scrapped rule, individuals had to meet a few criteria before the SSA reported them to the NICS as someone mentally unfit to purchase a gun.

Under the rule, a person first had to file a disability claim with SSA for Social Security welfare benefits citing mental impairment. SSA then had to confirm that that claimant?s ?impairment(s) meets or medically equals? requirements of the SSA?s Mental Disorder Listing Of Impairments (or the ?blue book?). Claimants, finally, must be so ?incapable of managing benefit payments? that they receive their Social Security benefit payments through a ?representative payee.?

If and only if these criteria were met would a person?s name have been forwarded by SSA to NICS. These are not easy criteria to meet.

The SSA blue book?s requirements for qualifying mental illnesses, for instance, usually include provisions relating to an inability to function in ?normal work and social conditions.? Social Security disability benefits are meant to serve as an income supplement for Americans who cannot work either enough or at all; qualifications are purposely set to weed out potentially fraudulent claims for free government welfare.

SSA claims examiners evaluate the notes of claimants? mental health professionals in addition to questionnaires that are sent to claimants? acquaintances. This scrutinized evaluation even has been known to insufficiently consider the cyclical nature of many mental ailments and in turn deny otherwise deserving and needy claimants.

On top of that, the Social Security beneficiaries whose names would be forwarded by SSA to NICS would have also required the services of a ?representative payee? ? not only must qualifying people be too mentally impaired to be able to fully work, they must also be too mentally impaired to fully manage and make use of benefit checks on their own.

Kimmel?s claim that Trump made it ?easier? for people with ?severe mental illness? to legally purchase guns is true. By removing this SSA rule, some Americans on Social Security disability who would not have passed gun background tests after December 2017, when the rule was slated to go into full effect, now could pass.

Data on Social Security beneficiaries and mental illness in America, however, contextualize just how few people for whom it became ?easier? to legally purchase guns. A report by the SSA identified 81,000 Social Security beneficiaries in fiscal year 2015 who met the hurdles for their names to be forwarded to NICS.

On the other hand, the National Alliance On Mental Illness (NAMI) and National Institutes Of Health (NIH) estimate that there around 10 million U.S. adults suffer from ?serious mental illness? each year.

The Obama Administration SSA rule thus only accounted for less than one percent of the millions of Americans with serious mental illness from legally purchasing firearms.

This is not to suggest that all people with severe mental illness are dangerous candidates for gun ownership. The nature of mental ailments vary, and under SSA blue book guidelines, even people with eating disorders and other mental issues with dubious connections to increased tendencies of violence could have had their names forwarded to NICS under the rule.

Studies actually suggest mentally ill people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators of gun violence. Numerous mental health and activist organizations have advanced this and other arguments against the Obama Administration?s SSA rule.

Trump?s scrapping of the SSA rule, moreover, does not erode federal restrictions on people with severe mental illness from purchasing firearms. The Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended by the Brady Act of 1993, prohibits people ?adjudicated [deemed] as ?mental defective?? from purchasing a firearm.

Kimmel claimed that Trump ?made it easier for people with severe mental illness to buy guns legally.? Trump did scrap a rule that required SSA to report Social Security beneficiaries with severe mental illness, but the narrow scale of its application ? i.e. Americans deemed sufficiently mentally ill to qualify for welfare benefits that they cannot even directly receive ? towards its goal of keeping guns out of the hands of Americans with mental illness does not support Kimmel?s claim. Trump?s move did not significantly alter the capability for Americans with ?severe mental illness? from legally purchasing a gun.

http://thepoliticalinsider.com/trump-mentally-ill-guns/

[Bridge]

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/politics/7997320/axl-rose-mike-pence-nfl-pr-stunt-national-anthem

Axl Rose criticizes vice president Mike Pence for PR stunt at a football game.

[chineseblues]

Axl isn't wrong.

[allwaystired]

Axl isn't wrong.

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

[fra]

Axl isn't wrong.

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

[Bridge]

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

I disagree.  Shut up and sing.  Shut up and act.  I don't need singers and actors telling me about politics any more than electricians or plumbers.

Axl is entitled to his opinions but he also admitted (during his 2012 Jimmy Kimmel appearance) that he's never even voted, which would make me take his opinions even less seriously.

[allwaystired]

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

I disagree.  Shut up and sing.  Shut up and act.  I don't need singers and actors telling me about politics any more than electricians or plumbers.

Axl is entitled to his opinions but he also admitted (during his 2012 Jimmy Kimmel appearance) that he's never even voted, which would make me take his opinions even less seriously.

People are free to ignore thise views though of course. I like it when people say what they think in general, aniut whatever. Too many people in the world that say nothing....

[rebelhipi]

Axl isn't wrong.

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

Agreed.

[doooodickiebr]

Axl isn't wrong.

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

Agreed.

Then maybe you should tune in to CNN or CSPAN. Music and entertainment are an escape from all that bullshit.

[allwaystired]

Axl isn't wrong.

I wish Axl spoke his mind a bit more- he's obviously got pretty strong views about politics and such, and I'd love to hear more of them. I'm not one who thinks musicians should just 'play music and shut up'.

Agreed.

Then maybe you should tune in to CNN or CSPAN. Music and entertainment are an escape from all that bullshit.

Says who? You must really dislike a lot of the GNR back catalogue if you feel like that....

[Bridge]

Then maybe you should tune in to CNN or CSPAN. Music and entertainment are an escape from all that bullshit.

Yep.

Alice Cooper said this in 2004....

I call it treason against rock 'n' roll because rock is the antithesis of politics. Rock should never be in bed with politics.  When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the ROLLING STONES as loud as I could.  So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick.

If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are.  Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal.

It's true what I said, that most of us dropped out of school to chase girls, drink beer, and play rock n roll, and don't read the Washington Journal (which, by the way, doesn't even EXIST, so you see how much I know).

[allwaystired]

I'd argue though that all great rock and roll musoc has been protest music. It's a major part of it. It's certainly a major part of gnr music....

[sandman]

I'd argue though that all great rock and roll musoc has been protest music. It's a major part of it. It's certainly a major part of gnr music....

I strongly disagree with every word of this statement.

[allwaystired]

I'd argue though that all great rock and roll musoc has been protest music. It's a major part of it. It's certainly a major part of gnr music....

I strongly disagree with every word of this statement.

I can't think of a great rock and roll band, at any point in history who hasn't had at least a few songs regarding politics/topical commentary/protest - if you can think of any, I'm all ears. It seems to be a staple of the genre.

How can you 'strongly disagree' that GNR have NOT made protest/commentary music a major part of their music? Civil War? Chinese Democracy? One In A Million? To name three of the top of my head.

As I said, people are free to ignore what's being said and just enjoy the music, but you can't deny it's there- and always has been.

[allwaystired]

Then maybe you should tune in to CNN or CSPAN. Music and entertainment are an escape from all that bullshit.

Yep.

Alice Cooper said this in 2004....

I call it treason against rock 'n' roll because rock is the antithesis of politics. Rock should never be in bed with politics.  When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the ROLLING STONES as loud as I could.  So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick.

If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are.  Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal.

It's true what I said, that most of us dropped out of school to chase girls, drink beer, and play rock n roll, and don't read the Washington Journal (which, by the way, doesn't even EXIST, so you see how much I know).

Well, he's a weird one- sure he SAYS all that......

.....then he performs 'Elected' - written as a satire on the Nixon era -onstage, with caricatures of Trump and Clinton onstage, fighting and kissing. If that's not bringing politics into music, then I don't know what is!

[sandman]

I'd argue though that all great rock and roll musoc has been protest music. It's a major part of it. It's certainly a major part of gnr music....

I strongly disagree with every word of this statement.

I can't think of a great rock and roll band, at any point in history who hasn't had at least a few songs regarding politics/topical commentary/protest - if you can think of any, I'm all ears. It seems to be a staple of the genre.

How can you 'strongly disagree' that GNR have NOT made protest/commentary music a major part of their music? Civil War? Chinese Democracy? One In A Million? To name three of the top of my head.

As I said, people are free to ignore what's being said and just enjoy the music, but you can't deny it's there- and always has been.

what's are the protest songs on AFD?  GnR's defining album.

what were they protesting in "One in a Million?"  (not sure I want an answer to this question.)

I do not believe CD is a protest song. I've never studied the lyrics, but I thought it was another contradiction and that it was essentially about Axl's mind.

Civil War obviously. but you said it was a "MAJOR" part of GnR music. I think we have one song.

as for your other comment about rock music in general, I do not consider the Stones, Led Zep, the Who, Queen (4 of the biggest rock bands of all time) to be "political/protest" bands. I do not put the Beatles in that category either, despite Lennon's activism and post-beatles career. i could go on and on.

is SOME rock based on great protest/political themes or very much inspired by current events. yes, absolutely.

[allwaystired]

I'd argue though that all great rock and roll musoc has been protest music. It's a major part of it. It's certainly a major part of gnr music....

I strongly disagree with every word of this statement.

I can't think of a great rock and roll band, at any point in history who hasn't had at least a few songs regarding politics/topical commentary/protest - if you can think of any, I'm all ears. It seems to be a staple of the genre.

How can you 'strongly disagree' that GNR have NOT made protest/commentary music a major part of their music? Civil War? Chinese Democracy? One In A Million? To name three of the top of my head.

As I said, people are free to ignore what's being said and just enjoy the music, but you can't deny it's there- and always has been.

what's are the protest songs on AFD?  GnR's defining album.

what were they protesting in "One in a Million?"  (not sure I want an answer to this question.)

I do not believe CD is a protest song. I've never studied the lyrics, but I thought it was another contradiction and that it was essentially about Axl's mind.

Civil War obviously. but you said it was a "MAJOR" part of GnR music. I think we have one song.

as for your other comment about rock music in general, I do not consider the Stones, Led Zep, the Who, Queen (4 of the biggest rock bands of all time) to be "political/protest" bands. I do not put the Beatles in that category either, despite Lennon's activism and post-beatles career. i could go on and on.

is SOME rock based on great protest/political themes or very much inspired by current events. yes, absolutely.

I sort of lump 'topical social commentary' in with politics (i.e. using politics in its broad terminology).

Yeah, let's not get into One In Million! I mean, there's definitely something going on there...but best to avoid quite what I guess!

I'd say CD definitely was - references to the Falon Gong, and all those liner notes that never actually got into the final addition. I think Riad and the Bedouins too was dealing with some pretty big issues. 

Take for instance the line "Captain America's been torn apart, now he's a court jester with a broken heart" from Appetite.  I've always seen that as commentary on the notion of the American dream.

The Stones have featured politics heavily (Dirty Work, Sittin On A Fence, You Got The Silver being the most obvious examples). Led Zeppelin not so much, but still dabbled (Misty Mountain Hop etc). The Who were really political I think - Won't Get Fooled Again, The Kids are Alright, and maybe even the whole of Quadrophenia really. Queen I don't know too much about musically really- but Brian May seems pretty outspoken these days on a lot of issues in the UK. Beatles were for sure- Revolution, Taxman, Blackbird, Get Back - Come Together was even written as a campaign song for Timothy Leary's campaign to run as Governer of California!

I just think that most bands have politics in some form as quite a central part of their DNA. I think that comes from the fact that anyone that is driven and outspoken enough to be in a successful band is pretty much inevitably going to have strong views on things, and politics/social commentary is one of the first things people have strong views on! I always think it's good to hear those views from people, if they've got them - even if I don't like them. I also think there are cultural/geographical differences too though. I'm from the UK, and debates and discussions about politics are very much a part of daily life. You don't find many people that don't discuss politics really, in some shape or form- and I think that has translated in a lot of the bands/music that has come out of the UK. I don't know how much other of that in depth political debate goes on in other countries and societies obviously.

Going back to the original point- if Axl has got these strong views, surely it's a shame if he isn't using them to create some fantastic passionate art, in whatever form? Hell-imagine if he translated his rage at the Trump administration into fantastic, angry music! It could be truly incredible..... 

[sandman]

i'll just say, I do not view GnR as a political band. they don't even talk about politics, except for just a couple examples in recent years.

as for the stones, when you have nearly 400 songs, at some point you will probably touch on a "social" or political issue. I think in the last 10 years, they became more political, but not really in their defining years in the 60s and 70s.

but my original point was simply that plenty of great rock n roll was not political. at all.

I think all your points are major stretches; however, that's what music is about. everyone interprets it differently and it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. it's all about what it means to you. 

[allwaystired]

i'll just say, I do not view GnR as a political band. they don't even talk about politics, except for just a couple examples in recent years.

as for the stones, when you have nearly 400 songs, at some point you will probably touch on a "social" or political issue. I think in the last 10 years, they became more political, but not really in their defining years in the 60s and 70s.

but my original point was simply that plenty of great rock n roll was not political. at all.

I think all your points are major stretches; however, that's what music is about. everyone interprets it differently and it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. it's all about what it means to you. 

Good point. I don't really view GNR as a political band either really- but I think they've dabbled, and it's made for good music, so I'd be keen for them to dabble again! The original CD liner notes suggested it's something Axl feels strongly about - whether that's reflected in the rest of the band, as ever, we have no idea! 

[ITARocker]

Imho it's good when music portraits a point of view on life in general but that's it.

A lot of Musicians  when they talk (or sing) about politics are just a bunch of hypocrites or they look like fishes out of water... For example someone like ENIMEN should be really allowed  to say "If you support Trump, you can fuck all the way off forever" Look at his face, look at his life in general...what a fuckin mess... I mean... Almost every musician has a story of drugs use, suicide attempts, arrests , whatever... How can they be more genuine than politicians they are talking about??

You should have a righteous background to talk about politics in a certain way.  You can't set yourself up as a moral leader or something like that when your life is everything but a model of coherence