Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[chineseblues]

So what is your solution? ( other than pointing the finger at 'us guys' which I don't know what that even means.)

The solution is you (as a country) do your part to help the refugees your policies and wars helped create. You don't get to invade countries and cause all this shit then sit back and say 'fuck you, stay out' Your government is now cancelling visas that have been granted to people that have been vetted and who have been law abiding all because they come from Muslim countries. Are you really okay with that? If you actually agree with this ban, then you clearly have no idea about history. Every American who isn't a native is an immigrant. You are encouraging and applauding trump piss on the centuries of values that made up America.

Not even 2 weeks in and already your government is talking about military action against Iran, China and Mexico! Seriously this guy was a better choice than Hillary? Really? I want whatever drugs you're on.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

So what is your solution? ( other than pointing the finger at 'us guys' which I don't know what that even means.)

The solution is you (as a country) do your part to help the refugees your policies and wars helped create. You don't get to invade countries and cause all this shit then sit back and say 'fuck you, stay out' Your government is now cancelling visas that have been granted to people that have been vetted and who have been law abiding all because they come from Muslim countries. Are you really okay with that? If you actually agree with this ban, then you clearly have no idea about history. Every American who isn't a native is an immigrant. You are encouraging and applauding trump piss on the centuries of values that made up America.

Not even 2 weeks in and already your government is talking about military action against Iran, China and Mexico! Seriously this guy was a better choice than Hillary? Really? I want whatever drugs you're on.

Military action against Mexico? Where did you see that?  Sounds like fake news.

China is building military bases in international waters and Iran is launching test missiles in violation of UN treaties, so maybe we should say nothing about that?


I dont agree with a Muslim ban, but I do agree with better vetting for people who want to enter the US from countries that have a marginally effective government that cant address radical Islamists within their borders. These people can take advantage of a currently  ineffective vetting system we have in place now and hide among the refugees. For example, If I gave you a bowl full of M&M's and said only 3 out of 40 of them were cyanide, would you eat from that bowl?


What is happening in the middle East isn't all the fault of the USA. Certainly we've made mistakes but everything cant be blamed on us. I do agree that the US has stuck their nose in too many things they had no business in. If it doesn't threaten our national security or the lives of American citizens we need to stay out of it. ( Iraq and Libya interventions were a big mistake) Id like to see the US take more advantage of our own natural resources and tell the middle east to keep their oil.

I have great respect for our country's immigrants. We would not be the country we are today without them. On a personal level , most of my family came to the US as immigrants, but they came here LEGALLY. Worked hard for everything and did not ask for a handout and they assimilated into their new country, learned the language  and were proud to be new Americans while having great pride for their heritage.  The family line that did not immigrate here was Native American and we know they were royally screwed over ( and still are).

Lets try to keep it civil, I like a good debate but no need to attack each other personally.  The only drugs I'm on occasionally is what my state voted to make legal for medical reasons last fall....

 

[chineseblues]

Everything you don't know is fake news? Trump told Mexicans president in a phone call last week that if his government couldn't stop the cartels then maybe he would send in troops to do it himself. It's being reported widely from people inside the whitehouse.

You say you welcome people coming in legally, well the whitehouse has cancelled visas from those 7 countries he has banned travel from. The visa holders went through getting and were coming in legally. You think that's okay? He fired his AG for going against the ban she thought was unlawful. You have a guy on the security council that has no business on there. You have a whitehouse that is antiscience, anti women's rights, anti immigrants, anti environment etc etc if he is still there in 4 years you probably won't have much of a country left. Be honest, is this really the kind of shit you want?

Edit: you want extra getting for countries that can't control radical Islamic terrorists? How about your homegrown terrorists? You can't stop people who are bound and determined to hurt others. Doesn't matter where they are from. You have more radical Christian terrorists in your country than you do Islamic ones bud.

[tim_m]

It's quite telling that the country where most of the terrorists that have carried out attacks on American soil is not on trumps ban list (Saudi Arabia). It also happens to be a country where trump has hotels. This guy is destroying America. Every single day it gets even more outlandish, Hollywood couldn't even make this shit up.

You're forgetting two countries.

Not forgetting them, was just making a point that he won't add Saudi Arabia because it would hurt his own business interests. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the American people. He is looking out for himself only!

He does business in those other two countries not on the list as well i believe.

[pilferk]

For example, If I gave you a bowl full of M&M's and said only 3 out of 40 of them were cyanide, would you eat from that bowl?

I'm largely staying out since a) civility in the thread took a flyer awhile back (on both sides) and b) I'm letting Trumps actions speak for themselves right now (and they're speaking volumes, IMHO).

But you've proven yourself better than parroting conservative talking points (and shouting "fake news" when confronted with information you don't like).  Don't start now.

That bowl of m&ms you're talking about? It would need to be roughly the size of 6 olympic swimming pools, given historic numbers, and contain about 600 million M&Ms (or is it skittles, again?).  Ditch the M&M example. We've covered it earlier in the thread, debunked it with actual numbers, and it's not apt. Its particularly egregious when you use the example while, yourself, leveling a "fake news" charge against something widely being reported, sourced by multiple white house staffers.

Back to my hiatus.....

[Dr. Blutarsky]

For example, If I gave you a bowl full of M&M's and said only 3 out of 40 of them were cyanide, would you eat from that bowl?

I'm largely staying out since a) civility in the thread took a flyer awhile back (on both sides) and b) I'm letting Trumps actions speak for themselves right now (and they're speaking volumes, IMHO).

But you've proven yourself better than parroting conservative talking points (and shouting "fake news" when confronted with information you don't like).  Don't start now.

That bowl of m&ms you're talking about? It would need to be roughly the size of 6 olympic swimming pools, given historic numbers, and contain about 600 million M&Ms (or is it skittles, again?).  Ditch the M&M example. We've covered it earlier in the thread, debunked it with actual numbers, and it's not apt. Its particularly egregious when you use the example while, yourself, leveling a "fake news" charge against something widely being reported, sourced by multiple white house staffers.

Back to my hiatus.....

I have not seen anywhere in the news where Trump said that he was going to invade Mexico. It just sounded similar to the report that he removed the MLK bust. So I said it sounded like fake news. I did find this when I searched for the story:

Mexican government says Trump never threatened to send troops to Mexico  http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-trump-20170201-story.html

I still wouldn't eat from the swimming pool full of skittles, M&M's or whatever candy it could be filled with. It only takes one.

[pilferk]

I have not seen anywhere in the news where Trump said that he was going to invade Mexico. It just sounded similar to the report that he removed the MLK bust. So I said it sounded like fake news. I did find this when I searched for the story:

Mexican government says Trump never threatened to send troops to Mexico  http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-trump-20170201-story.html

I still wouldn't eat from the swimming pool full of skittles, M&M's or whatever candy it could be filled with. It only takes one.

Mult white house staffers and sources said he threatened to send troops to deal with the drug cartels moving narcos over the border "if Mexico didn't take steps".  Mexico's denial was very specific, with pretty narrow wording.   In truth, that's not "invading"...but it's certainly violating Mexicos sovereignty. Yes, there is a difference between "invasion" and "forced collaboration", but I'm not keen on either one, or the suggestion of either one.

Also, see the reports of his call with Australias PM...and ensuing tweet storm.

If that last bit is true...you might not want to leave the house. Ever.  Your odds are better to get hit by a car, shot while you walk down the street, or be injured by wildlife.  So....really...you're already eating from the pool.

The point is...the odds are so infinitely small that they post a singular danger to YOU, specifically, that the analogy isn't apt. It's fear mongering. You're better than that.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

One more candy bowl comment and Ill leave it alone.......promise.

What we need is a system in place to remove the cyanide candy from the rest of the well meaning candy. That is what Trump is trying to do. Cant say I am completely on board with how he is doing it, but he is taking action Ill give him that.

The odds are that I personally will never be involved with a terrorist attack. But it doesn't mean I shouldn't be concerned with one possibly happening in the US.

I'm glad to see you back on this thread,  Pilferk.  We have had some good discussions. 

[pilferk]

One more candy bowl comment and Ill leave it alone.......promise.

What we need is a system in place to remove the cyanide candy from the rest of the well meaning candy. That is what Trump is trying to do. Cant say I am completely on board with how he is doing it, but he is taking action Ill give him that.

The odds are that I personally will never be involved with a terrorist attack. But it doesn't mean I shouldn't be concerned with one possibly happening in the US.

I'm glad to see you back on this thread,  Pilferk.  We have had some good discussions. 

Then driving should be illegal. so should guns  And all animals should be killed.

Because thats the equivalent of the "action" he's taking.

Sometimes "some action" is NOT better than "no action".

If you want to say there is some sort of make sense way we can improve security.....sure. This is not it. Ths is actually, imho, the exact opposite of that.

As for being "back"....nah, this will likely be my last post for a long time. The candy comment is a pet peeve. I stumbled in this mornng, when i saw the thread was "on top" in the jumgle, and read the lsst 4 or 5 posts to see if it was still...hostile? That hostility, to me, is exactly the problem. It diffuses accountabillity and just keeps people rooting for "their guy".

Anyway...maybe i'll pop in in 2018....

[chineseblues]

One more candy bowl comment and Ill leave it alone.......promise.

What we need is a system in place to remove the cyanide candy from the rest of the well meaning candy. That is what Trump is trying to do. Cant say I am completely on board with how he is doing it, but he is taking action Ill give him that.

The odds are that I personally will never be involved with a terrorist attack. But it doesn't mean I shouldn't be concerned with one possibly happening in the US.

I'm glad to see you back on this thread,  Pilferk.  We have had some good discussions. 

Then driving should be illegal. so should guns  And all animals should be killed.

Because thats the equivalent of the "action" he's taking.

Sometimes "some action" is NOT better than "no action".

If you want to say there is some sort of make sense way we can improve security.....sure. This is not it. Ths is actually, imho, the exact opposite of that.

As for being "back"....nah, this will likely be my last post for a long time. The candy comment is a pet peeve. I stumbled in this mornng, when i saw the thread was "on top" in the jumgle, and read the lsst 4 or 5 posts to see if it was still...hostile? That hostility, to me, is exactly the problem. It diffuses accountabillity and just keeps people rooting for "their guy".

Anyway...maybe i'll pop in in 2018....

The hostility is probably my fault. I don't have a dog in this fight really as I'm not American and don't live in the states. I just see what this idiot is doing to your country and I cannot fathom how anyone could support him or his policies. The guy really is pissing off pretty much every single ally that US has. Nothing he has done so far is helping the American people, in fact it's to the contrary. The rest of the world is looking at you guys and are thinking what the hell happened?

[chineseblues]

For example, If I gave you a bowl full of M&M's and said only 3 out of 40 of them were cyanide, would you eat from that bowl?

I'm largely staying out since a) civility in the thread took a flyer awhile back (on both sides) and b) I'm letting Trumps actions speak for themselves right now (and they're speaking volumes, IMHO).

But you've proven yourself better than parroting conservative talking points (and shouting "fake news" when confronted with information you don't like).  Don't start now.

That bowl of m&ms you're talking about? It would need to be roughly the size of 6 olympic swimming pools, given historic numbers, and contain about 600 million M&Ms (or is it skittles, again?).  Ditch the M&M example. We've covered it earlier in the thread, debunked it with actual numbers, and it's not apt. Its particularly egregious when you use the example while, yourself, leveling a "fake news" charge against something widely being reported, sourced by multiple white house staffers.

Back to my hiatus.....

I have not seen anywhere in the news where Trump said that he was going to invade Mexico. It just sounded similar to the report that he removed the MLK bust. So I said it sounded like fake news. I did find this when I searched for the story:

Mexican government says Trump never threatened to send troops to Mexico  http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-trump-20170201-story.html

I still wouldn't eat from the swimming pool full of skittles, M&M's or whatever candy it could be filled with. It only takes one.

(WASHINGTON) ? President Donald Trump warned in a phone call with his Mexican counterpart that he was ready to send U.S. troops to stop ?bad hombres down there? unless the Mexican military does more to control them, according to an excerpt of a transcript of the conversation obtained by The Associated Press.

https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4657474/donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-mexico-bad-hombres/%3Fsource%3Ddam?client=safari

[GeorgeSteele]

The Skittles, M&Ms, pez, candy, whatever analogy is completely inappropriate, even ignoring the fact that the 3 out of 40 math is way off (as Pilferk noted, it's 3 out of hundreds of millions).  But the bottom line is that if you don't eat candy, no one is worse for the wear (probably better off actually), but if you turn your back on refugees, thousands of innocent people die. 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

For example, If I gave you a bowl full of M&M's and said only 3 out of 40 of them were cyanide, would you eat from that bowl?

I'm largely staying out since a) civility in the thread took a flyer awhile back (on both sides) and b) I'm letting Trumps actions speak for themselves right now (and they're speaking volumes, IMHO).

But you've proven yourself better than parroting conservative talking points (and shouting "fake news" when confronted with information you don't like).  Don't start now.

That bowl of m&ms you're talking about? It would need to be roughly the size of 6 olympic swimming pools, given historic numbers, and contain about 600 million M&Ms (or is it skittles, again?).  Ditch the M&M example. We've covered it earlier in the thread, debunked it with actual numbers, and it's not apt. Its particularly egregious when you use the example while, yourself, leveling a "fake news" charge against something widely being reported, sourced by multiple white house staffers.

Back to my hiatus.....

I have not seen anywhere in the news where Trump said that he was going to invade Mexico. It just sounded similar to the report that he removed the MLK bust. So I said it sounded like fake news. I did find this when I searched for the story:

Mexican government says Trump never threatened to send troops to Mexico  http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-trump-20170201-story.html

I still wouldn't eat from the swimming pool full of skittles, M&M's or whatever candy it could be filled with. It only takes one.

(WASHINGTON) ? President Donald Trump warned in a phone call with his Mexican counterpart that he was ready to send U.S. troops to stop ?bad hombres down there? unless the Mexican military does more to control them, according to an excerpt of a transcript of the conversation obtained by The Associated Press.

https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4657474/donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-mexico-bad-hombres/%3Fsource%3Ddam?client=safari

If this conversation really took place, Trump totally overstepped his bounds. I say if since it's an unnamed source.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

The Skittles, M&Ms, pez, candy, whatever analogy is completely inappropriate, even ignoring the fact that the 3 out of 40 math is way off (as Pilferk noted, it's 3 out of hundreds of millions).  But the bottom line is that if you don't eat candy, no one is worse for the wear (probably better off actually), but if you turn your back on refugees, thousands of innocent people die. 

We need a better vetting system, I'm certainly not advocating we turn our back on them.  We can certainly do our part for humanitarian reasons, but I heard something this morning that make absolutely nosense. Apparently Obama put in place an agreement to take Syrian refugees from Australia! They're already out of harms way in Australia. We're interested in saving Australia money at our own expense ?  This was the subject of the phone call between Trump and the Australian prime minister. Apparently Trump hung up on him if the unnamed source is being accurate.

[chineseblues]

With all the shit talking he does in the press and on twitter do you honestly believe he didn't say it?

[Voodoochild]

I can understand why they would ask for social media pages, take a look at the recent lone wolf terrorist attacks. They had pretty much outed themselves as converts to radical Islam on social media  prior to their murder of innocent citizens.

You can do that with proper investigation and official orders and selected individuals. Screwing privacy and human rights for any foreigner that the airport security want to check shouldn't be the only resource there.

I can agree with that. But coming to the US is not a right if you are not a citizen or don't have a visa.

Of course, but nobody is talking about illegal immigrants. The CNN link I posted is clearly talking about ANY foreign. Could be myself - I do a lot of business trips and I visited the US at least once a year.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

With all the shit talking he does in the press and on twitter do you honestly believe he didn't say it?

  Yeah he does talk some shit but when it comes to unnamed sources I take it with a grain of salt.  I dont recall any time that Obama had a private conversation with a world leader leak to the press, or George W. for that matter.

[chineseblues]

With all the shit talking he does in the press and on twitter do you honestly believe he didn't say it?

  Yeah he does talk some shit but when it comes to unnamed sources I take it with a grain of salt.  I dont recall any time that Obama had a private conversation with a world leader leak to the press, or George W. for that matter.

Maybe because they weren't batshit crazy? This is what we've come to really, George W. Is actually being looked at like a not so bad president anymore. The guy was dumb as rocks but hey at least he's not going to nuke anyone! If the US isn't at war by summer it will be a fucking miracle!

[Dr. Blutarsky]

With all the shit talking he does in the press and on twitter do you honestly believe he didn't say it?

  Yeah he does talk some shit but when it comes to unnamed sources I take it with a grain of salt.  I dont recall any time that Obama had a private conversation with a world leader leak to the press, or George W. for that matter.

Maybe because they weren't batshit crazy? This is what we've come to really, George W. Is actually being looked at like a not so bad president anymore. The guy was dumb as rocks but hey at least he's not going to nuke anyone! If the US isn't at war by summer it will be a fucking miracle!

Technically we are at war right now, we are still involved in bombing runs and covert operations in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

[chineseblues]

With all the shit talking he does in the press and on twitter do you honestly believe he didn't say it?

  Yeah he does talk some shit but when it comes to unnamed sources I take it with a grain of salt.  I dont recall any time that Obama had a private conversation with a world leader leak to the press, or George W. for that matter.

Maybe because they weren't batshit crazy? This is what we've come to really, George W. Is actually being looked at like a not so bad president anymore. The guy was dumb as rocks but hey at least he's not going to nuke anyone! If the US isn't at war by summer it will be a fucking miracle!

Technically we are at war right now, we are still involved in bombing runs and covert operations in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

And if trump has his way you will be at war with Iran, China and Mexico in the next few months as well! Good luck finding allies to help you with those fights.