Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[tim_m]

Clown vs. Dirtball i like that. Not that it is funny the clown won. Quite the opposite.

Agreed.  Ever since it began, this election has been one that churned the stomach.

Same here, i jut want to make it clear, i i no way like Hillary or really support her. In the primary i voted for Sanders all the way. I by no means thought Hillary was a great or even a good choice. They are both terrible choices. I did vote for Hillary in the election and that's not to say i don't recognize her issues and there are many of them. Just as Trump has many issues that are concerning but Hillary for all her issues at least has experience. This buffoon Trump hasn't got a clue what he's doing, what's going on or what he can actually do. Like the wall that's a pipe dream, deporting 11 million people pipe dream etc. All that said, i think we kinda got what we deserved. Millennials again didn't show up. Apparently 46% of eligible voters didn't show up. Then you have over 50k people write in a vote for a fucking ape! A real deceased Ape!

[pilferk]

i wonder if health insurance companies will still pay for pre-existing conditions if the Affordable Care Act is repealed. 

ACA may be safe. I believe they'd need 2/3 majority to get rid of it. They aren't even close in either house.

Unfortunately, not true.

You don't have to actually repeal something to repeal it....You can gut it with re-regulation and modification of existing legislation, functionally repealing it.

We'll see how down the road they get with that.  But they don't need to get 2/3rds to basically completely change/eradicate it.

[pilferk]

Clown vs. Dirtball i like that. Not that it is funny the clown won. Quite the opposite.

Especially apt given the evil clown sighting epidemic that was going on a month or so ago.

[faldor]

Only in America can a person accused of sexual assault by more then a dozen women, become president.  I really have to wonder what the women who still supported him  

Funny, I was saying the same things when America TWICE voted Bill Clinton into presidency.  You know, all the sexual indiscretions Hillary enabled and helped cover up?

Difference is those women with the exception of Jones seemingly lied and Broaddick's claim seems sketchy. Don't you think you'd remember the day you were raped? Also with Clinton we don't have him on any tape bragging about sexually assaulting women, saying inappropriate things about a 10 year old girl as well as his own daughter. Maybe the stuff about Bill is true maybe it isn't. The claims against Trump are more believable simply because of the things we have proof of him saying. Just the way he talks about ivanka make my skin crawl.

I don't know. Are we pretending the whole Monica Lewinsky thing didn't happen? Not sure how that behavior is deemed acceptable.

Certainly it isn't acceptable for a man to cheat on his wife. It was consensual though. What Trump is being accused of and facing civil suit for is sexual assault and statutory rape.

Well so far, that's the only thing that's been proven as far as I know. Everything else is allegations. We'll see how it all plays out, but innocent until proven guilty used to be a mantra we lived by. Now it seems to be the polar opposite, actually it's been that way for decades now.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

i wonder if health insurance companies will still pay for pre-existing conditions if the Affordable Care Act is repealed. 

If people are able to purchase health insurance across state lines, due to the increased competition between insurance companies I think many will still pay for pre-existing because they wont want to lose the business to a competitor.

The ACA isnt working well. Many people are choosing to pay the fine instead of purchasing coverage, so less money in the pool than they were expecting. Many doctors are overbooked and others have chosen to go into a concierge practice, taking themselves out of the loop. That is what happened to my doctor, so I couldn't keep my doctor. My family got on Obamacare right from the beginning , it helped us financially but each year it has been less. This coming year my premium went up $100 a month and I had to take a step down in my plan. So more money for less coverage. This is the trend. And I am one of the lucky ones. The ACA is taking on water all on its own and there have been no fixes or patches to improve the situation. I believe Hillary's goal was to make it single payer since the ACA wasn't faring so well.

I think a bare bones single payer may work,   so catastrophic could be covered. But the government bureaucracy that would run it would need to be very efficient and that is an unknown if that could happen. then people can purchase additional insurance on top of that from any insurance company in the country. Think that would be a good hybrid.

[TheBaconman]

Watching Clintons loser speech yesterday made me laugh

Only in politics...

Its not like the Cleveland Indians came out after.  We had the best pitchers, we had the best fielding, we had the best managers, we won the vote of the people....   

But you lost haha

So obviously it wasn't that good at all.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Watching Clintons loser speech yesterday made me laugh

Only in politics...

Its not like the Cleveland Indians came out after.  We had the best pitchers, we had the best fielding, we had the best managers, we won the vote of the people....   

But you lost haha

So obviously it wasn't that good at all.

I actually thought it was the one time we have seen her this whole election that she seemed honest and heartfelt.

The democrats have themselves to blame by electing probably the worst candidate they could have. She was an insider , elitist and bringing more of the same in a change election. And many couldnt trust her due to her own actions by the cover up on the email server. She could have leveled with the American People as soon as it came out and shed be better off. But her arrogance and above the law mentality doomed her. 

Another factor, Trump heard the concerns of many working class from suburban and rural areas that have been pretty much ignored over the last several years. A big reason why he did so well in the Midwest rust belt. Their businesses, factories and livelihoods were being eroded and no one was hearing their concerns. Untill now. They were also fed up I'm sure by being referred to bigots and racists when the vast majority of them are not.

[GeorgeSteele]

Another factor, Trump heard the concerns of many working class from suburban and rural areas that have been pretty much ignored over the last several years. A big reason why he did so well in the Midwest rust belt. Their businesses, factories and livelihoods were being eroded and no one was hearing their concerns. Untill now. They were also fed up I'm sure by being referred to bigots and racists when the vast majority of them are not.

That was the big factor, indeed.  Trump did not ignore them, he lied to them by telling them he'll bring back their factory jobs.  Spoiler alert, he won't.  Hillary ignored them because she knows there's not much that can be done for that segment of the country.  We're talking about people with all advantages needed to succeed in this country, being white and in America for generations, but yet are still struggling.  Ultimately, that's down to their own inability to compete in a global, technology-driven economy.  The smart, skilled, educated and capable ones from those areas tend to leave and move to the cities.  They rightfully fear immigrants coming into this country who have a stronger work ethic, are smarter and ready to compete, and who, unlike them, within a generation almost always achieve success in this country.  Frankly, the only hope for rural America is a leftist government that will give them a welfare state to survive because they have very little to contribute.
 

[sandman]

Another factor, Trump heard the concerns of many working class from suburban and rural areas that have been pretty much ignored over the last several years. A big reason why he did so well in the Midwest rust belt. Their businesses, factories and livelihoods were being eroded and no one was hearing their concerns. Untill now. They were also fed up I'm sure by being referred to bigots and racists when the vast majority of them are not.

That was the big factor, indeed.  Trump did not ignore them, he lied to them by telling them he'll bring back their factory jobs.  Spoiler alert, he won't.  Hillary ignored them because she knows there's not much that can be done for that segment of the country.  We're talking about people with all advantages needed to succeed in this country, being white and in America for generations, but yet are still struggling.  Ultimately, that's down to their own inability to compete in a global, technology-driven economy.  The smart, skilled, educated and capable ones from those areas tend to leave and move to the cities.  They rightfully fear immigrants coming into this country who have a stronger work ethic, are smarter and ready to compete, and who, unlike them, within a generation almost always achieve success in this country.  Frankly, the only hope for rural America is a leftist government that will give them a welfare state to survive because they have very little to contribute.
 

wow. it's so interesting how seemingly overnight, the tables have turned and the Republican party is the one of the working class, and the Democrats are the "you need to work harder" party that is connected and controlled by the big banks.

I think a big reason Hillary lost was that she had no clear message. she made general/BS/empty promises that all politicians make ("i want to invest in your future", "i support families", I will invest in education").

here in PA, there were Hillary commercials on non-stop. but they all were negative and just showed Trump saying stupid things, or had life-long, everyday republicans saying why they can't vote trump. no message. it's implied that its more of the same and continuation of Obama. not awful since he has better than 50% approval, but not good enough. she needed to be more specific and get a message across. "i'm a woman, and trump is a pig" didn't work.

everyone knows Trumps messages:
- MAGA
- build a wall (and mexico will pay for it)
- make better deals
- bring back jobs
- start winning again

everyone could tell you those things in a second. hell, everyone could tell you Bernie's message and he hasn't been in the spotlight in months.

she ran a horrible campaign.

[pilferk]

Another factor, Trump heard the concerns of many working class from suburban and rural areas that have been pretty much ignored over the last several years. A big reason why he did so well in the Midwest rust belt. Their businesses, factories and livelihoods were being eroded and no one was hearing their concerns. Untill now. They were also fed up I'm sure by being referred to bigots and racists when the vast majority of them are not.

That was the big factor, indeed.  Trump did not ignore them, he lied to them by telling them he'll bring back their factory jobs.  Spoiler alert, he won't.  Hillary ignored them because she knows there's not much that can be done for that segment of the country.  We're talking about people with all advantages needed to succeed in this country, being white and in America for generations, but yet are still struggling.  Ultimately, that's down to their own inability to compete in a global, technology-driven economy.  The smart, skilled, educated and capable ones from those areas tend to leave and move to the cities.  They rightfully fear immigrants coming into this country who have a stronger work ethic, are smarter and ready to compete, and who, unlike them, within a generation almost always achieve success in this country.  Frankly, the only hope for rural America is a leftist government that will give them a welfare state to survive because they have very little to contribute.
 

wow. it's so interesting how seemingly overnight, the tables have turned and the Republican party is the one of the working class, and the Democrats are the "you need to work harder" party that is connected and controlled by the big banks.

You mean: How the R's have portrayed them, and a segment of the populace has bought in, right?

Because voting records matter. And that's not how the actual votes have gone for the past 20 years. Not even the past 4 years. That was Trumps message....those are the promises he made.  And people believed them.  Lets see him make good.  Then maybe we can look at actually swapping labels.  I'd invite you to look at his proposed cabinet members, though.....because we're getting a peek at his thought process in that.  Do you see Washington outsiders in there? Or populists?  I see career politicians and more of the same.

The facts are the facts though.  Manufacturing is not coming back.....not the way it was. No matter what Trump says.  So it will be interesting how that segment of the electorate responds if (when) those promises fall to shit. And what the level of outrage/backlash is.

I think a big reason Hillary lost was that she had no clear message. she made general/BS/empty promises that all politicians make ("i want to invest in your future", "i support families", I will invest in education").

She had 800 pages of policy on her web site. 

He had just over 100.

In terms of "slogans"...sure, he might have had more catchy messages...but in terms of "empty" promises...Trump trumps HRC every day and twice on Sunday.  Winning didn't change that. Lets not re-write history, here.

here in PA, there were Hillary commercials on non-stop. but they all were negative and just showed Trump saying stupid things, or had life-long, everyday republicans saying why they can't vote trump. no message. it's implied that its more of the same and continuation of Obama. not awful since he has better than 50% approval, but not good enough. she needed to be more specific and get a message across. "i'm a woman, and trump is a pig" didn't work.

It "didn't work" because, mostly it didn't motivate voters to go out and vote.  I would suggest her less than flattering likeability and her scandals...including the FBI letter a week before the election...had more to do with that than "message".  Exit polls seem to bear that out too. But, sure....the reality TV star was a bit more entertaining, alone, on a stage.

It "worked", though, in that it won her the popular vote...so it resounded with more voters than it didn't. Her issue was state based. Trump made promises that resonated with certain voters in those states. She didn't make the same cases.

Trump didn't motivate his voters very well, either, though....he won with less votes than Romney had, or McCain before him. And again, I'd say some of that had to do with "trumps a pig".  He did a good job of (legally) supressing the Dem vote, though, by demonizing HRC.  She obviously didn't do AS good a job of that.

everyone knows Trumps messages:
- MAGA
- build a wall (and mexico will pay for it)
- make better deals
- bring back jobs
- start winning again

everyone could tell you those things in a second. hell, everyone could tell you Bernie's message and he hasn't been in the spotlight in months.

she ran a horrible campaign.

She ran a horrible campaign. On that we agree. And the dems did themselves no favors picking her (however you think that was done..by hook or by crook) as their nominee.  If they had run...well...pretty much ANYONE else in the party...Warren, Sanders, Malloy, Blumenthal, WHO THE FUCK EVER...we wouldn't be having this conversation, nor would there be protests in just about every major city.  THEY put themselves in a vulnerable position...and we went from talking about the potential death and splintering of the red party to discussing the same thing about the blue party...in 24 hours.

It happened.  Now we go forward.  Barring some kind of crazy unfaithful electors nuttiness next month...or some weird scandal that comes out of the woodwork that gets him impeached before taking office....he's the President for the next 4 years.  We'll see what that means in about 70 days or so.

[Bridge]

I actually thought it was the one time we have seen her this whole election that she seemed honest and heartfelt.

Agreed.  My father is a devout Republican and he said, "if she had behaved like that all along, she would've won the election."

[sandman]

I actually thought it was the one time we have seen her this whole election that she seemed honest and heartfelt.

Agreed.  My father is a devout Republican and he said, "if she had behaved like that all along, she would've won the election."

I thought the same thing. a lot of people hate politicians, and are sick of the phony smiles and fake accents. but she can't change who she is. 

[GeorgeSteele]

wow. it's so interesting how seemingly overnight, the tables have turned and the Republican party is the one of the working class, and the Democrats are the "you need to work harder" party that is connected and controlled by the big banks.

I'm not a registered Dem, so I can't speak for all of them, but as someone who mostly votes Democratic, here's what I think.  I think America was and still is a great country, primarily because anyone from any rung of society can achieve great things with hard work and talent.  I think many Republicans would agree with me on that, but where I part ways with them is that I think the great system we have that rewards such achievement is not sustainable in the long-term if all wealth is concentrated in a tiny segment of the population, if minorities are being shot at random and systematically screwed by our justice system, if climate change is ignored, if assault weapons are easily obtainable, etc. 

However, the reality is that not everyone is an exceptional overachiever, so the question of how to provide the opportunity of a reasonable quality of life for all is difficult and is becoming more difficult in a global economy where robots are replacing unskilled labor.  Trump's answer was to lie, Hillary ignored the problem, Bernie proposed expanding the welfare state.  I can't see how any option other than Bernie's would work for rural America.  I don't think it's a question of them having to work harder to compete, I just think for the most part, they're just not capable or competent (in terms of skills needed for this economy).  That's not to say Bernie would have won had he run instead of Hillary, as I find it impossible to believe that that part of the country would embrace a Jewish socialist.   

Also, a quick word on last night's coordinated protest of Trump's victory in every major U.S. city.  WTF are they doing?  Every major city voted overwhelmingly for Hillary.  Who are they targeting in those cities?  They're so desperate to maintain their narrative of 'fighting the power' even in cases like this when it wasn't the 'power' that elected Trump but the exact opposite. 

[sandman]

Another factor, Trump heard the concerns of many working class from suburban and rural areas that have been pretty much ignored over the last several years. A big reason why he did so well in the Midwest rust belt. Their businesses, factories and livelihoods were being eroded and no one was hearing their concerns. Untill now. They were also fed up I'm sure by being referred to bigots and racists when the vast majority of them are not.

That was the big factor, indeed.  Trump did not ignore them, he lied to them by telling them he'll bring back their factory jobs.  Spoiler alert, he won't.  Hillary ignored them because she knows there's not much that can be done for that segment of the country.  We're talking about people with all advantages needed to succeed in this country, being white and in America for generations, but yet are still struggling.  Ultimately, that's down to their own inability to compete in a global, technology-driven economy.  The smart, skilled, educated and capable ones from those areas tend to leave and move to the cities.  They rightfully fear immigrants coming into this country who have a stronger work ethic, are smarter and ready to compete, and who, unlike them, within a generation almost always achieve success in this country.  Frankly, the only hope for rural America is a leftist government that will give them a welfare state to survive because they have very little to contribute.
 

wow. it's so interesting how seemingly overnight, the tables have turned and the Republican party is the one of the working class, and the Democrats are the "you need to work harder" party that is connected and controlled by the big banks.

You mean: How the R's have portrayed them, and a segment of the populace has bought in, right?

Because voting records matter. And that's not how the actual votes have gone for the past 20 years. Not even the past 4 years. That was Trumps message....those are the promises he made.  And people believed them.  Lets see him make good.  Then maybe we can look at actually swapping labels.  I'd invite you to look at his proposed cabinet members, though.....because we're getting a peek at his thought process in that.  Do you see Washington outsiders in there? Or populists?  I see career politicians and more of the same.

The facts are the facts though.  Manufacturing is not coming back.....not the way it was. No matter what Trump says.  So it will be interesting how that segment of the electorate responds if (when) those promises fall to shit. And what the level of outrage/backlash is.

I think a big reason Hillary lost was that she had no clear message. she made general/BS/empty promises that all politicians make ("i want to invest in your future", "i support families", I will invest in education").

She had 800 pages of policy on her web site. 

He had just over 100.

In terms of "slogans"...sure, he might have had more catchy messages...but in terms of "empty" promises...Trump trumps HRC every day and twice on Sunday.  Winning didn't change that. Lets not re-write history, here.

here in PA, there were Hillary commercials on non-stop. but they all were negative and just showed Trump saying stupid things, or had life-long, everyday republicans saying why they can't vote trump. no message. it's implied that its more of the same and continuation of Obama. not awful since he has better than 50% approval, but not good enough. she needed to be more specific and get a message across. "i'm a woman, and trump is a pig" didn't work.

It "didn't work" because, mostly it didn't motivate voters to go out and vote.  I would suggest her less than flattering likeability and her scandals...including the FBI letter a week before the election...had more to do with that than "message".  Exit polls seem to bear that out too. But, sure....the reality TV star was a bit more entertaining, alone, on a stage.

It "worked", though, in that it won her the popular vote...so it resounded with more voters than it didn't. Her issue was state based. Trump made promises that resonated with certain voters in those states. She didn't make the same cases.

Trump didn't motivate his voters very well, either, though....he won with less votes than Romney had, or McCain before him. And again, I'd say some of that had to do with "trumps a pig".  He did a good job of (legally) supressing the Dem vote, though, by demonizing HRC.  She obviously didn't do AS good a job of that.

everyone knows Trumps messages:
- MAGA
- build a wall (and mexico will pay for it)
- make better deals
- bring back jobs
- start winning again

everyone could tell you those things in a second. hell, everyone could tell you Bernie's message and he hasn't been in the spotlight in months.

she ran a horrible campaign.

She ran a horrible campaign. On that we agree. And the dems did themselves no favors picking her (however you think that was done..by hook or by crook) as their nominee.  If they had run...well...pretty much ANYONE else in the party...Warren, Sanders, Malloy, Blumenthal, WHO THE FUCK EVER...we wouldn't be having this conversation, nor would there be protests in just about every major city.  THEY put themselves in a vulnerable position...and we went from talking about the potential death and splintering of the red party to discussing the same thing about the blue party...in 24 hours.

It happened.  Now we go forward.  Barring some kind of crazy unfaithful electors nuttiness next month...or some weird scandal that comes out of the woodwork that gets him impeached before taking office....he's the President for the next 4 years.  We'll see what that means in about 70 days or so.

I say she had no CLEAR message, and you point to 800 pages of policy on her website??? it's that thinking that shows she is out of touch. everyone knows politicians will not deliver on all of their promises, but Trump provided a specific plan on how to address the illegal immigration issue (a problem for the US for decades), and specific ideas regarding trade deals, preventing companies from leaving the U.S., etc.  maybe "empty" wasn't the right word since we'd have to wait to judge, but the examples I provided for Hillary are generic promises that all politicians repeat in their sleep.

her commercials did not work in PA, that's for sure. a dem stronghold for years that Obama won easily, so it was a MAJOR upset for her to lose PA. do they show the commercials as much in CA and NY, where her victory was guaranteed? not sure, but from what I've heard from co-workers in NY (and MD), commercials were on far less frequently. I pretty much have the negative trump ads memorized word for word, and I don't watch much TV. I hear "i don't remem-BER" in my sleep.

the Republicans have a great opportunity now with full control. but they are so divided i'm sure they will squander it. I hope trump continues his assault on them and changes how things are done in Washington.

a few years ago, Obama said to the Republicans "You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election."

somehow the Republicans won a bunch, despite their party being a mess.  

[sandman]

wow. it's so interesting how seemingly overnight, the tables have turned and the Republican party is the one of the working class, and the Democrats are the "you need to work harder" party that is connected and controlled by the big banks.

I'm not a registered Dem, so I can't speak for all of them, but as someone who mostly votes Democratic, here's what I think.  I think America was and still is a great country, primarily because anyone from any rung of society can achieve great things with hard work and talent.  I think many Republicans would agree with me on that, but where I part ways with them is that I think the great system we have that rewards such achievement is not sustainable in the long-term if all wealth is concentrated in a tiny segment of the population, if minorities are being shot at random and systematically screwed by our justice system, if climate change is ignored, if assault weapons are easily obtainable, etc. 

However, the reality is that not everyone is an exceptional overachiever, so the question of how to provide the opportunity of a reasonable quality of life for all is difficult and is becoming more difficult in a global economy where robots are replacing unskilled labor.  Trump's answer was to lie, Hillary ignored the problem, Bernie proposed expanding the welfare state.  I can't see how any option other than Bernie's would work for rural America.  I don't think it's a question of them having to work harder to compete, I just think for the most part, they're just not capable or competent (in terms of skills needed for this economy).  That's not to say Bernie would have won had he run instead of Hillary, as I find it impossible to believe that that part of the country would embrace a Jewish socialist.   

Also, a quick word on last night's coordinated protest of Trump's victory in every major U.S. city.  WTF are they doing?  Every major city voted overwhelmingly for Hillary.  Who are they targeting in those cities?  They're so desperate to maintain their narrative of 'fighting the power' even in cases like this when it wasn't the 'power' that elected Trump but the exact opposite. 

good points all around.

I didn't see the news or hear much about the protests (went to bed early last night after getting 2 hours sleep the night before, and have been busy at work all day today) so I am not sure i fully understand, but they should listen to Obama. your candidate lost. move on, volunteer, and do something to make your life better on your own. and do what you can to help your party win future elections. I think there is a bit of the "everyone gets a trophy" syndrome here. some of these young kids do not know how to handle losing.

[WAR41]

wow. it's so interesting how seemingly overnight, the tables have turned and the Republican party is the one of the working class, and the Democrats are the "you need to work harder" party that is connected and controlled by the big banks.

I'm not a registered Dem, so I can't speak for all of them, but as someone who mostly votes Democratic, here's what I think.  I think America was and still is a great country, primarily because anyone from any rung of society can achieve great things with hard work and talent.  I think many Republicans would agree with me on that, but where I part ways with them is that I think the great system we have that rewards such achievement is not sustainable in the long-term if all wealth is concentrated in a tiny segment of the population, if minorities are being shot at random and systematically screwed by our justice system, if climate change is ignored, if assault weapons are easily obtainable, etc. 

However, the reality is that not everyone is an exceptional overachiever, so the question of how to provide the opportunity of a reasonable quality of life for all is difficult and is becoming more difficult in a global economy where robots are replacing unskilled labor.  Trump's answer was to lie, Hillary ignored the problem, Bernie proposed expanding the welfare state.  I can't see how any option other than Bernie's would work for rural America.  I don't think it's a question of them having to work harder to compete, I just think for the most part, they're just not capable or competent (in terms of skills needed for this economy).  That's not to say Bernie would have won had he run instead of Hillary, as I find it impossible to believe that that part of the country would embrace a Jewish socialist.   

Also, a quick word on last night's coordinated protest of Trump's victory in every major U.S. city.  WTF are they doing?  Every major city voted overwhelmingly for Hillary.  Who are they targeting in those cities?  They're so desperate to maintain their narrative of 'fighting the power' even in cases like this when it wasn't the 'power' that elected Trump but the exact opposite. 

Hey all, registered Republican here who does not like Donald Trump but could not vote Hillary.  I am one of those people who 'threw their vote away' by voting for Gary Johnson.  Don't worry, I don't live in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, etc.  Being that I live in NY I knew Hillary would win so I wanted to hopefully get the Libertarian party to 5% popular vote so that they have more federal funding in the next election (didn't happen).

I didn't come here to argue, but mostly just to say that while I think the DNC got what they deserved in this election I am in no way happy about the result.  It still feels like a strange dream that Donald Trump actually won this election, but the more reading I do the more it makes sense.  One of the more interesting things I've read in the aftermath of the election was written by Will Rahn of CBS.  I think it describes the media's role in the result of this election very well. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/

Regarding the protests last night.  I was walking home through Union Square in NYC and got stuck in that mess.  What a bunch of pricks.  I was trying to get home to my wife and daughter and instead a bunch a college aged babies wouldn't let me through the crowd and in fact shoved me as I was saying 'excuse me' while I was trying to walk through.  So then I led with my elbow made it through the group who refused to move for me. 

Quoting lyrics from one of my non-favorite GNR bands regarding a Trump presidency: "Hope for the best but expect the worst". 

[pilferk]

I say she had no CLEAR message, and you point to 800 pages of policy on her website??? it's that thinking that shows she is out of touch. everyone knows politicians will not deliver on all of their promises, but Trump provided a specific plan on how to address the illegal immigration issue (a problem for the US for decades), and specific ideas regarding trade deals, preventing companies from leaving the U.S., etc.  maybe "empty" wasn't the right word since we'd have to wait to judge, but the examples I provided for Hillary are generic promises that all politicians repeat in their sleep.

Read what I wrote.

I said "He might have had better slogans, but when it comes to empty promises, Trump trumps HRC every day of the week, and twice on Sunday". And pointed to actual policy proposals to bear that out.

Other than a wall, and deportation forces (both of which would a)bankrupt the country and b)be logistically impossible) what specific proposals did he give?  Renegotiate trade deals? Impossible, unless the other parties involved agree...and not under the power of the president anyway. And if he just orders us to stop complying, he'll be in a trade war that we will lose (witness our trade deficit...and remember we don't manufacture much anymore). Nothing stopped congress from doing that up til now, either. Obama certainly didn't object. Prevent companies from leaving? How?

THOSE ARE EMPTY PROMISES. They are words with no actual workable plans behind them.  That's the very definition of empty promises.  "There are going to be great plans, believe me". "We're going to bring back manufacturing, big league".  

her commercials did not work in PA, that's for sure. a dem stronghold for years that Obama won easily, so it was a MAJOR upset for her to lose PA. do they show the commercials as much in CA and NY, where her victory was guaranteed? not sure, but from what I've heard from co-workers in NY (and MD), commercials were on far less frequently. I pretty much have the negative trump ads memorized word for word, and I don't watch much TV. I hear "i don't remem-BER" in my sleep.

It was an upset.

BUT, PA was a swing state for awhile...It voted R in the 80's, and D (mostly by close margins...3 or 4 pts) in the 90's and 00's.  MICHIGAN is the far bigger surprise in the flip, to me.

They didn't work at getting voters out in her strongholds.  The urban voters, her strongholds, stayed home.  The rural voters stayed home LESS for Trump.  He flipped exactly 2 counties....To me, that shows her unlikeableness, and general opinion of her scandals and corruption, more than message.  The fact the Trump commercials STUCK with you is, actually, proof they "worked".

No matter what her message was, those rural voters weren't voting for her.  They vote for the guy with the R after his name EVERY TIME.  Message didn't matter there. They did it in 2012 and 2008, too....when you can't really argue with Obama's message.

the Republicans have a great opportunity now with full control. but they are so divided i'm sure they will squander it. I hope trump continues his assault on them and changes how things are done in Washington.

They're not that divided.  And they will get their agenda through for 2 years and then we'll see where we are.  

a few years ago, Obama said to the Republicans "You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election."

somehow the Republicans won a bunch, despite their party being a mess.  

I agree, 100%. Elections have consequences. I do think it's amusing that Repubs are saying it now, after spending 8 years being obstructionists and not accepting Obama's election/reelection, but....I said the same thing then, and I'll say it again now.

But the Repubs did spend the better part of 8 years being obstructionists.  They don't have a super majority in the Senate....at best it'll be 52-48, depending on the runoff in Louisiana.  They have 2 years to prove the the voters that their way works and will have to fight their way through the Senate to get stuff done.  The house will definitely push through their agenda easily, though. If they're not carefuly, they'll usher in a blue wave in 2018, and then Trump will basically be marginalized.  

I hope the Repubs succeed, actually, over the next 4 years and we grow and prosper, and diversity doesn't get squashed under the boot heel in it's wake.  But if you ask me what I think the actual likelihood is that Trump will change the way Washington works, and will "drain the swamp", and make meaningful, effective, change that benefits the middle class......I'd say not good.  But we'll see....

[tim_m]

I say she had no CLEAR message, and you point to 800 pages of policy on her website??? it's that thinking that shows she is out of touch. everyone knows politicians will not deliver on all of their promises, but Trump provided a specific plan on how to address the illegal immigration issue (a problem for the US for decades), and specific ideas regarding trade deals, preventing companies from leaving the U.S., etc.  maybe "empty" wasn't the right word since we'd have to wait to judge, but the examples I provided for Hillary are generic promises that all politicians repeat in their sleep.

Read what I wrote.

I said "He might have had better slogans, but when it comes to empty promises, Trump trumps HRC every day of the week, and twice on Sunday". And pointed to actual policy proposals to bear that out.

Other than a wall, and deportation forces (both of which would a)bankrupt the country and b)be logistically impossible) what specific proposals did he give?  Renegotiate trade deals? Impossible, unless the other parties involved agree...and not under the power of the president anyway. And if he just orders us to stop complying, he'll be in a trade war that we will lose (witness our trade deficit...and remember we don't manufacture much anymore). Nothing stopped congress from doing that up til now, either. Obama certainly didn't object. Prevent companies from leaving? How?

THOSE ARE EMPTY PROMISES. They are words with no actual workable plans behind them.  That's the very definition of empty promises.  "There are going to be great plans, believe me". "We're going to bring back manufacturing, big league".  

her commercials did not work in PA, that's for sure. a dem stronghold for years that Obama won easily, so it was a MAJOR upset for her to lose PA. do they show the commercials as much in CA and NY, where her victory was guaranteed? not sure, but from what I've heard from co-workers in NY (and MD), commercials were on far less frequently. I pretty much have the negative trump ads memorized word for word, and I don't watch much TV. I hear "i don't remem-BER" in my sleep.

It was an upset.

BUT, PA was a swing state for awhile...It voted R in the 80's, and D (mostly by close margins...3 or 4 pts) in the 90's and 00's.  MICHIGAN is the far bigger surprise in the flip, to me.

They didn't work at getting voters out in her strongholds.  The urban voters, her strongholds, stayed home.  The rural voters stayed home LESS for Trump.  He flipped exactly 2 counties....To me, that shows her unlikeableness, and general opinion of her scandals and corruption, more than message.  The fact the Trump commercials STUCK with you is, actually, proof they "worked".

No matter what her message was, those rural voters weren't voting for her.  They vote for the guy with the R after his name EVERY TIME.  Message didn't matter there. They did it in 2012 and 2008, too....when you can't really argue with Obama's message.

the Republicans have a great opportunity now with full control. but they are so divided i'm sure they will squander it. I hope trump continues his assault on them and changes how things are done in Washington.

They're not that divided.  And they will get their agenda through for 2 years and then we'll see where we are.  

a few years ago, Obama said to the Republicans "You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election."

somehow the Republicans won a bunch, despite their party being a mess.  

I agree, 100%. Elections have consequences. I do think it's amusing that Repubs are saying it now, after spending 8 years being obstructionists and not accepting Obama's election/reelection, but....I said the same thing then, and I'll say it again now.

But the Repubs did spend the better part of 8 years being obstructionists.  They don't have a super majority in the Senate....at best it'll be 52-48, depending on the runoff in Louisiana.  They have 2 years to prove the the voters that their way works and will have to fight their way through the Senate to get stuff done.  The house will definitely push through their agenda easily, though. If they're not carefuly, they'll usher in a blue wave in 2018, and then Trump will basically be marginalized.  

I hope the Repubs succeed, actually, over the next 4 years and we grow and prosper, and diversity doesn't get squashed under the boot heel in it's wake.  But if you ask me what I think the actual likelihood is that Trump will change the way Washington works, and will "drain the swamp", and make meaningful, effective, change that benefits the middle class......I'd say not good.  But we'll see....

They won't succeed because Trump really has no plans. At least nothing he can realistically deliver on aside from Obamacare for which he has no plan to replace it. The sad truth about this election is that many people voted for this turkey simply because he was not a washington insider elite beholden to special interest. People who voted for him are going to quickly find out that he has no idea what he's doing, what he is actually allowed to do or how to do it.  He is an elite though and if they actually think he's gonna help the every day american blue collar worker they are gonna be sorely disappointed. This is a man with a long history of stiffing employees, not contributing to his foundation and ripping people off with Trump University and not paying taxes. The only time he cares about the average american is when he checks to see who he's stepping on. Ultimately he's gonna be more of the same.

[tim_m]

i wonder if health insurance companies will still pay for pre-existing conditions if the Affordable Care Act is repealed. 

ACA may be safe. I believe they'd need 2/3 majority to get rid of it. They aren't even close in either house.

Unfortunately, not true.

You don't have to actually repeal something to repeal it....You can gut it with re-regulation and modification of existing legislation, functionally repealing it.

We'll see how down the road they get with that.  But they don't need to get 2/3rds to basically completely change/eradicate it.

Yeah apparently there's some kinda special budgetary rule they can use to repeal certain parts of it but not it in its entirety.

[tim_m]

Only in America can a person accused of sexual assault by more then a dozen women, become president.  I really have to wonder what the women who still supported him  

Funny, I was saying the same things when America TWICE voted Bill Clinton into presidency.  You know, all the sexual indiscretions Hillary enabled and helped cover up?

Difference is those women with the exception of Jones seemingly lied and Broaddick's claim seems sketchy. Don't you think you'd remember the day you were raped? Also with Clinton we don't have him on any tape bragging about sexually assaulting women, saying inappropriate things about a 10 year old girl as well as his own daughter. Maybe the stuff about Bill is true maybe it isn't. The claims against Trump are more believable simply because of the things we have proof of him saying. Just the way he talks about ivanka make my skin crawl.

I don't know. Are we pretending the whole Monica Lewinsky thing didn't happen? Not sure how that behavior is deemed acceptable.

Certainly it isn't acceptable for a man to cheat on his wife. It was consensual though. What Trump is being accused of and facing civil suit for is sexual assault and statutory rape.

Well so far, that's the only thing that's been proven as far as I know. Everything else is allegations. We'll see how it all plays out, but innocent until proven guilty used to be a mantra we lived by. Now it seems to be the polar opposite, actually it's been that way for decades now.

Yes innocent until proven guilty, so let's give him a pass on all the allegations until they're proven. If you take those all away and give him due process on those lets consider what we do have. We have him on tape boasting about sexually assaulting women. We have him on tape boasting that he'd be dating a girl who at the time was 10. Which tells us he found her sexually attractive. That screams pedophile. A man doesn't say something like that about someone who he finds unattractive. Then we have the incestuous comments about Ivanka. Even if we give him a pass until proven guilty on the accusations. He is still guilty of saying some seriously creepy shit that sends of tons of red flags.