Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

Trump could learn from Pence's debate performance last night & he totally outperformed Trump if you compare the two.

If Trump just toned it down a little he'd be better off with the 2nd debate worth a slightly more reserved and humble approach. He still can be stern, but not a big mouth blowhard. Guess we'll see what happens.

Hopefully I can actually be able to watch the next debate, will depend on if have electricity and a roof on my house still when Sunday rolls around.....

Be safe, man!

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Trump could learn from Pence's debate performance last night & he totally outperformed Trump if you compare the two.

If Trump just toned it down a little he'd be better off with the 2nd debate worth a slightly more reserved and humble approach. He still can be stern, but not a big mouth blowhard. Guess we'll see what happens.

Hopefully I can actually be able to watch the next debate, will depend on if have electricity and a roof on my house still when Sunday rolls around.....

Be safe, man!

Thanks, as it turned out it wasn't bad as the TV/Media was hyping it out to be. Storm was out to sea just enough to spare the area from any major catastrophic damage.

Lost a gutter, a few roof shingles and palm frawns all over the yard, but that is about it. Never lost power, I an one of the lucky ones. And helps to be 8 miles inland.

[pilferk]

Thanks, as it turned out it wasn't bad as the TV/Media was hyping it out to be. Storm was out to sea just enough to spare the area from any major catastrophic damage.

Lost a gutter, a few roof shingles and palm frawns all over the yard, but that is about it. Never lost power, I an one of the lucky ones. And helps to be 8 miles inland.

Yeah, it seems like it's stayed JUST offshore of Florida, sparing lots of folks from the worst of it.  It's staying like 10-15 miles right off shore....literally the difference between catastrophe and just a bad blow.

And the storm..they just showed the actual track, and it's like wobbling back and forth..it'll cut in a few miles, and then cut out a few miles. Totally weird....and I don't think this one was "predictable".  One of those "push worst case because there's no way this thing actually just decides to play nice"...and then it did.

Now lets see if it really does the loop back.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I expect to hear this come up at the debate this coming sunday.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

Trump recorded having extremely lewd conversation about women in 2005

 By David A. Fahrenthold October 7 at 7:03 PM

Donald Trump bragged in vulgar terms about kissing, groping and trying to have sex with women during a 2005 conversation caught on a hot microphone, saying that ?when you?re a star, they let you do it,? according to a video obtained by The Washington Post.

The video captures Trump talking with Billy Bush, then of ?Access Hollywood,? on a bus with the show?s name written across the side. They were arriving on the set of ?Days of Our Lives? to tape a segment about Trump?s cameo on the soap opera.

The tape includes audio of Bush and Trump talking inside the bus, as well as audio and video once they emerge from it to begin shooting the segment.

In that audio, Trump discusses a failed attempt to seduce a woman, whose full name is not given in the video.

?I moved on her, and I failed. I?ll admit it,? Trump is heard saying. It was unclear when the events he was describing took place. The tape was recorded several months after he married his third wife, Melania.

?Whoa,? another voice said.

?I did try and f--- her. She was married,? Trump says.

Trump continues: ?And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ?I?ll show you where they have some nice furniture.??

?I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn?t get there. And she was married,? Trump says. ?Then all of a sudden I see her, she?s now got the big phony tits and everything. She?s totally changed her look.?

At that point in the audio, Trump and Bush appear to notice Arianne Zucker, the actress who is waiting to escort them into the soap-opera set.

?Your girl?s hot as s---, in the purple,? says Bush, who?s now a co-host of NBC?s ?Today? show.

?Whoa!? Trump says. ?Whoa!?

?I?ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her,? Trump says. ?You know I?m automatically attracted to beautiful ? I just start kissing them. It?s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don?t even wait.?

?And when you?re a star, they let you do it,? Trump says. ?You can do anything.?

?Whatever you want,? says another voice, apparently Bush?s.

?Grab them by the p---y,? Trump says. ?You can do anything.?

A spokeswoman for NBC Universal, which produces and distributes ?Access Hollywood,? declined to comment.

?This was locker-room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago. Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course ? not even close,? Trump said in a statement. ?I apologize if anyone was offended.?

After the video appeared online Friday afternoon, Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton wrote on Twitter: ?This is horrific. We cannot allow this man to become president.? Her running mate, Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.), told reporters, ?It makes me sick to my stomach,? while campaigning in Las Vegas.

Planned Parenthood Action Fund, which has endorsed Clinton, issued a statement from Executive Vice President Dawn Laguens saying: ?What Trump described in these tapes amounts to sexual assault.?

Trump was also criticized by members of his own party, including Sen. Kelly Ayotte (N.H.), who is running for reelection, and has said she will vote for Trump. ?His comments are totally inappropriate and offensive,? Ayotte said in a written statement.

One of Trump?s most prominent social-conservative supporters, Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, told BuzzFeed?s Rosie Gray: ?My personal support for Donald Trump has never been based upon shared values.?

Trump?s running mate, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, was at a diner in Toledo when the news broke ? about to view the diner?s collection of signed cardboard hot-dog buns, which includes one signed by Trump. But the reporters traveling with Pence were quickly ushered out of the diner by campaign staff, before they could ask Trump?s running mate about it, according to Politico. Politico reported that the journalists, traveling in Pence?s ?protective pool,? were not permitted to film Pence as he left the diner.

The tape appears at a time when Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, has sought to make a campaign issue out of his opponent?s marriage. Trump has criticized former president Bill Clinton for his past infidelity and criticized opponent Hillary Clinton as her husband?s ?enabler.?

?Hillary Clinton was married to the single greatest abuser of women in the history of politics,? Trump told the New York Times in a recent interview. ?Hillary was an enabler, and she attacked the women who Bill Clinton mistreated afterward. I think it?s a serious problem for them, and it?s something that I?m considering talking about more in the near future.?

Trump carried on a very public affair with Marla Maples ? his eventual second wife ? while still married to first wife Ivana Trump.

Trump has been criticized in this campaign for derogatory and lewd comments about women, including some made on TV and live radio. In an interview Wednesday with KSNV, a Las Vegas television station, Trump said that those comments were made for entertainment.

?A lot of that was done for the purpose of entertainment. There?s nobody that has more respect for women than I do,? he told the station.

?Are you trying to tone it down now?? asked the interviewer, Jim Snyder.

?It?s not a question of trying, it?s very easy,? said Trump.

The tape obtained by The Post seems to have captured Trump in a private moment, with no audience beyond Bush and a few others on the bus. It appears to have been shot around Sept. 16, 2005, which was the day media reports said Trump would tape his soap-opera cameo.

The video shows the bus carrying Trump and Bush turning down a street on the studio back lot. The two men cannot be seen.

?Oh, nice legs, huh?? Trump says.

?Oof, get out of the way, honey,? Bush says, apparently referencing somebody else blocking the view of Zucker.

The two men then exit the bus and greet Zucker.

?We?re ready, let?s go,? Trump says, after the initial greetings. ?Make me a soap star.?

?How about a little hug for the Donald?? Bush says. ?He just got off the bus.?

?Would you like a little hug, darling?? Zucker says.

?Absolutely,? Trump says. As they embrace, and air-kiss, Trump says, ?Melania said this was okay.?

The video then follows Trump, Bush and Zucker into the studio. Trump did appear on ?Days of Our Lives? in late October. In a tape of that cameo posted online, Zucker?s character asks Trump ? playing himself ? for a job at his business, and tells him suggestively, ?I think you?ll find I?m a very willing employee. Working under you, I think, could be mutually beneficial.?

Trump?s character gives her the brushoff.

?That?s an interesting proposition,? Trump says on-screen. ?I?ll get back to you.?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Trump does have a response though......He can remind Hillary that her husband cheated on her by sticking cigars inside of interns, then lied about it to the entire country.

Yeah, we're gonna get some more gutter politics. Like we needed more of that. There are some issues that the country faces that need some addressing.

C'mon Gary.....if only....

[tim_m]

Trump does have a response though......He can remind Hillary that her husband cheated on her by sticking cigars inside of interns, then lied about it to the entire country.

Yeah, we're gonna get some more gutter politics. Like we needed more of that. There are some issues that the country faces that need some addressing.

C'mon Gary.....if only....

While i agree we don't need more gutter politics this isn't something that can just be swept under the rug. Trump has to answer to these disgusting things he's on tape saying about this woman whomever she is. We have to make a distinction here. Bill did those things to Hillary and there's absolutely no excuse for it but she was the victim. Trump is not the victim he is the perpetrator of these despicable comments and actions against this woman. I would hope there is no way his supporters can possibly defend the things he is saying here. I don't care if it was just locker room banter this is unacceptable.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Trump does have a response though......He can remind Hillary that her husband cheated on her by sticking cigars inside of interns, then lied about it to the entire country.

Yeah, we're gonna get some more gutter politics. Like we needed more of that. There are some issues that the country faces that need some addressing.

C'mon Gary.....if only....

While i agree we don't need more gutter politics this isn't something that can just be swept under the rug. Trump has to answer to these disgusting things he's on tape saying about this woman whomever she is. We have to make a distinction here. Bill did those things to Hillary and there's absolutely no excuse for it but she was the victim. Trump is not the victim he is the perpetrator of these despicable comments and actions against this woman. I would hope there is no way his supporters can possibly defend the things he is saying here. I don't care if it was just locker room banter this is unacceptable.

I dont think Hillary was an innocent victim regarding Bill's affairs. She helped him cover them up and possibly even enabled him. But this is old news.

There is no way to defend what Trump said and he will pay a steep price politically. The election may now be decided in Hillary's favor. I know we've said before that this has got to do Trump in or that will finish him all thru this campaign and he comes out of it. But this is much different that the other statements he has made.

Locker room talk between 2 dudes about women is not all that uncommon. But they are not generally almost 60 years old and married or this crass. Trump always takes things one step too far.

He posted a video last night addressing the comments he made 11 years ago and apologized. That was a smart move but I dont see how he recovers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipBvoEDBOpw

The timing of this by the Washington Post seems all too convenient. While there is no excuse for this type of behavior, it is like they had this sexist bombshell card to play and they timed it this way on purpose. We have a debate tomorrow and Wikileaks last night released excerpts of here Goldman Sachs speeches which are quite revealing. But no one is talking about that. The media is working hard to elect Hillary.

Hillary will hit him over this from now till November 8th and hell be defending himself constantly. Meanwhile the focus is off her and we dont discuss policy or solutions to the country's problems. Only way Hillary can win, she cant run on her record, its all about Trump. And with this she won big time.

Personally,  I think the only way forward for the GOP to have a shot is for Trump to step aside and give Pence the top of the ticket. He did good against Kaine and he is a stand up guy with character. Perhaps a bit too far to the right for me, but after what Trump has said I think he's done. How do you recover from this??

What a train wreck Trump is 

[chineseblues]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the rape of the 13 year old girl turns out to be true either. I seriously can't understand how anyone could even consider voting for this guy. Wtf is wrong with people...

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the rape of the 13 year old girl turns out to be true either. I seriously can't understand how anyone could even consider voting for this guy. Wtf is wrong with people...

Most seem to be voting against a candidate rather than for one. 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Changing gears a bit.

Excerpts of Hillary Clinton?s Paid Speeches to Goldman Sachs Finally Leaked

Excerpts of Hillary Clinton?s remarks during paid speeches to Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley, and other groups were leaked online Friday afternoon by WikiLeaks. Clinton, who was paid upwards of $225,000 per speech, earned more than $22 million on the paid speaking circuit after resigning as secretary of state.

The excerpts are revealed in an email from Tony Carrk, the research director of the Clinton campaign, to John Podesta, the campaign chairman, and other top campaign officials. Carrk, who did not respond to a request for comment, highlighted in the memo the most politically damaging quotes from each paid speech, under headers including ?CLINTON ADMITS SHE IS OUT OF TOUCH,? ?CLINTON SAYS YOU NEED TO HAVE A PRIVATE AND PUBLIC POSITION ON POLICY,? and ?CLINTON REMARKS ARE PRO KEYSTONE AND PRO TRADE.?

The wealth Clinton accumulated was a topic at the paid events.

Discussing middle class economic anxieties, Clinton told a crowd at a Goldman Sachs-sponsored speech that she is now ?kind of far removed because the life I?ve lived and the economic, you know, fortunes that my husband and I now enjoy, but I haven?t forgotten it.?

But the discussions were also an opportunity for Clinton to speak candidly about policy, politics, and her approach to governing.

Touching on her view of developing financial regulations, Clinton declared to a crowd of Goldman Sachs bankers that in order to ?figure out what works,? the ?people that know the industry better than anybody are the people who work in the industry.?

At the Goldman Sachs Builders and Innovators Summit, Clinton responded to a question from chief executive Lloyd Blankfein, who quipped that you ?go to Washington? to ?make a small fortune.? Clinton agreed with the comment and complained about ethics rules that require officials to divest from certain assets before entering government. ?There is such a bias against people who have led successful and/or complicated lives,? Clinton said.

At a speech for Morgan Stanley on April 18, 2013, Clinton praised the Simpson-Bowles deficit reduction plan ? which would reduce corporate tax rates while raising the Social Security age. ?But Simpson-Bowles ? and I know you heard from Erskine earlier today ? put forth the right framework. Namely, we have to restrain spending, we have to have adequate revenues, and we have to incentivize growth. It?s a three-part formula,? she said.

Clinton also told a housing trade group in 2013 that on certain issues, she has ?a public and a private position.? ?If everybody?s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least,? said Clinton. ?So, you need both a public and a private position.?

The Intercept was the first media outlet to ask Clinton directly if she would release the transcripts of her paid speeches to Goldman Sachs. When approached at an event in Manchester, New Hampshire, Clinton laughed off the question.

The issue was raised again during the Democratic primary debates and in other media events. In February of this year, the New York Times editorial board called for Clinton to release her speech transcripts, declaring that voters ?have every right to know what Mrs. Clinton told these groups.?

According to reports, the campaign reviewed the speech transcripts but decided against releasing them out of fear that she would appear too friendly to banks and other donor interest groups.

But there are signs in the emails released by WikiLeaks that she also took a fairly progressive stance on certain topics, including health care reform.

During a talk in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 2013, Clinton praised the single-payer model for health care reform. ?If you look at the single-payer systems, like Scandinavia, Canada, and elsewhere, they can get costs down because, you know, although their care, according to statistics, overall is as good or better on primary care,? she said, adding that there were some drawbacks. ?They do impose things like waiting times, you know.?

But during the campaign this year, she dismissed the idea, declaring that single payer will ?never, ever? happen in the U.S. Audio obtained by The Intercept last week showed Clinton dismissing the concept of free health care during another private event with donors.






Full email excerpts can be found here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/wikileaks-appears-to-release-hillary-clintons-paid-speech-tr?utm_term=.abadwbLJe#.mp53QbAE7


 WikiLeaks Appears To Release Hillary Clinton?s Paid Speech Transcripts

Clinton?s paid speeches to Goldman Sachs and other financial firms were a point of contention during this year?s primary. A hacked email to campaign chairman John Podesta, made public Friday, appears to show excerpts Clinton?s research team flagged internally, including remarks she made about Wall Street and trade policy.

[tim_m]

Trump does have a response though......He can remind Hillary that her husband cheated on her by sticking cigars inside of interns, then lied about it to the entire country.

Yeah, we're gonna get some more gutter politics. Like we needed more of that. There are some issues that the country faces that need some addressing.

C'mon Gary.....if only....

While i agree we don't need more gutter politics this isn't something that can just be swept under the rug. Trump has to answer to these disgusting things he's on tape saying about this woman whomever she is. We have to make a distinction here. Bill did those things to Hillary and there's absolutely no excuse for it but she was the victim. Trump is not the victim he is the perpetrator of these despicable comments and actions against this woman. I would hope there is no way his supporters can possibly defend the things he is saying here. I don't care if it was just locker room banter this is unacceptable.

I dont think Hillary was an innocent victim regarding Bill's affairs. She helped him cover them up and possibly even enabled him. But this is old news.

There is no way to defend what Trump said and he will pay a steep price politically. The election may now be decided in Hillary's favor. I know we've said before that this has got to do Trump in or that will finish him all thru this campaign and he comes out of it. But this is much different that the other statements he has made.

Locker room talk between 2 dudes about women is not all that uncommon. But they are not generally almost 60 years old and married or this crass. Trump always takes things one step too far.

He posted a video last night addressing the comments he made 11 years ago and apologized. That was a smart move but I dont see how he recovers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipBvoEDBOpw

The timing of this by the Washington Post seems all too convenient. While there is no excuse for this type of behavior, it is like they had this sexist bombshell card to play and they timed it this way on purpose. We have a debate tomorrow and Wikileaks last night released excerpts of here Goldman Sachs speeches which are quite revealing. But no one is talking about that. The media is working hard to elect Hillary.

Hillary will hit him over this from now till November 8th and hell be defending himself constantly. Meanwhile the focus is off her and we dont discuss policy or solutions to the country's problems. Only way Hillary can win, she cant run on her record, its all about Trump. And with this she won big time.

Personally,  I think the only way forward for the GOP to have a shot is for Trump to step aside and give Pence the top of the ticket. He did good against Kaine and he is a stand up guy with character. Perhaps a bit too far to the right for me, but after what Trump has said I think he's done. How do you recover from this??

What a train wreck Trump is 

Pence still has some wacky beliefs that make Trump look tame. He has awful stances on women's rights and gay rights.

[chineseblues]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the rape of the 13 year old girl turns out to be true either. I seriously can't understand how anyone could even consider voting for this guy. Wtf is wrong with people...

Most seem to be voting against a candidate rather than for one. 

That is still scary as hell. I'm not from the US, but looking at this election from the outside has me scared shitless that Trump has a chance to win. His stance on many issues is enough to give people nightmares. Anyone who thinks the world needs more nukes should never ever be given the power that comes with being president of the US.

I get that some people don't like Clinton but the thought of her winning certainly wouldn't keep me up at night like Trump does. He is a dictator/disaster waiting to happen.

[tim_m]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the rape of the 13 year old girl turns out to be true either. I seriously can't understand how anyone could even consider voting for this guy. Wtf is wrong with people...

Most seem to be voting against a candidate rather than for one. 

That is still scary as hell. I'm not from the US, but looking at this election from the outside has me scared shitless that Trump has a chance to win. His stance on many issues is enough to give people nightmares. Anyone who thinks the world needs more nukes should never ever be given the power that comes with being president of the US.

I get that some people don't like Clinton but the thought of her winning certainly wouldn't keep me up at night like Trump does. He is a dictator/disaster waiting to happen.

My sentiments exactly. The thought of him having his hands on the nuclear football scares the holy shit out of me.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Here is an interesting theory that makes sense ( even more so within the last 48 hrs)

BREAKING: Hillary Conspired With Press to Nominate Trump

October 9, 2016

A bombshell ? the conspiracy theories were true after all: WikiLeaks documents released today proove Hillary Clinton?s campaign conspired with the DNC and the mainstream media to nominate Donald Trump as the Republican presidential candidate. Source here. https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784908158426869761

The documents show the Clinton campaign saw Trump as a ?Pied Piper candidate,? someone who could win the support of the electorate, but who would ultimately destroy the Republican Party in the process. The trick is, Hillary expected the media would not cover Trump enough, and they would not take his candidacy seriously. Her campaign sought to actively conspire with the DNC and the media in order to increase coverage of Trump as much as possible ? effectively making it impossible for a more qualified candidate to receive media exposure. This just screams of corruption and fraud at the highest level. Following this strategic initiative, the media coverage of Trump was insane ? every moment of his campaign was covered by every mainstream media outlet ? so much so that all other Republican candidates were unable to secure any coverage at all (with the exception of Cruz, and briefly Carson, who were also ?Pied Piper candidates.?) We now know this over bearing media coverage was all orchestrated by corrupt Democrats.

This kind of orchestrated manipulation of the electoral process by powerful politicians and media elites should make all Americans sick to their stomachs. If you have a soul in your body, and a brain in your head, you will vote for Donald Trump this November. If for no other reason than to create the greatest of all deterrents against this kind of sick media controlled electoral manipulation for future generations. Throw this back in their faces people. Enough is enough.

https://thestate.xyz/2016/10/09/breaking-hillary-conspired-with-press-to-nominate-trump/

[pilferk]

Here is an interesting theory that makes sense ( even more so within the last 48 hrs)

BREAKING: Hillary Conspired With Press to Nominate Trump

October 9, 2016

A bombshell ? the conspiracy theories were true after all: WikiLeaks documents released today proove Hillary Clinton?s campaign conspired with the DNC and the mainstream media to nominate Donald Trump as the Republican presidential candidate. Source here. https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/784908158426869761

The documents show the Clinton campaign saw Trump as a ?Pied Piper candidate,? someone who could win the support of the electorate, but who would ultimately destroy the Republican Party in the process. The trick is, Hillary expected the media would not cover Trump enough, and they would not take his candidacy seriously. Her campaign sought to actively conspire with the DNC and the media in order to increase coverage of Trump as much as possible ? effectively making it impossible for a more qualified candidate to receive media exposure. This just screams of corruption and fraud at the highest level. Following this strategic initiative, the media coverage of Trump was insane ? every moment of his campaign was covered by every mainstream media outlet ? so much so that all other Republican candidates were unable to secure any coverage at all (with the exception of Cruz, and briefly Carson, who were also ?Pied Piper candidates.?) We now know this over bearing media coverage was all orchestrated by corrupt Democrats.

This kind of orchestrated manipulation of the electoral process by powerful politicians and media elites should make all Americans sick to their stomachs. If you have a soul in your body, and a brain in your head, you will vote for Donald Trump this November. If for no other reason than to create the greatest of all deterrents against this kind of sick media controlled electoral manipulation for future generations. Throw this back in their faces people. Enough is enough.

https://thestate.xyz/2016/10/09/breaking-hillary-conspired-with-press-to-nominate-trump/

First off...the state is a conspiracy theory, ulra right wing, psueco-news site. 90% of the time, their shit is debunked, snopes worthy, bs.

Having said that.....the wikileaks pointer might fall in the other 10%.

Its a campaign strategy.

The rnc has one too. And it includes trying to manipulate the media to portray favorable positions and outcomes.

The conservatives supporting trump will ignore that their party of choice has, now and in the past, engaged in similar and worse dirty tricks. They have, in fact, conspired to get the dnc to nominate the least electable candidate ( dukakis, hrc, mondale) in the past, in pretty similar ways.

And the "media manipulation" we are talking sbout? Hrc/dnc Telling their surrogates to talk about how strong and difficult to defeat those candidates would be. Thats it. Its not like there are secret meetings between the media and hrc/dnc to set their press coverage. That kind of conspiracy theory nonsense is simply the spin machine, and its bunk.

The press is bad, not mostly because of bias, but because they have become entertainment over news, ratings over substance. And fox news was the first to really push that envelope...and were very successful/profitable at it. Trump got press because he got ratings. He was entertaining. Thats not hrcs doing.....and its understandable given trumps background/history.  But t doesnt make him a good candidate for president...in fact, imho, those traits that mKe him entertaining also makes him an exceptionally bad candidate.

I dont think this shows anything unusual or out of the ordinary, honestly. Its bad optics, i guess..lbut its not going to change minds.

And some of the the other wikileaks "snippets" are 6 words that project a terrible picture..til you read the whole context, that is. Its very much like last weeks speech snippets about Sanders supporters.

I'm much more concerned by the podesto/superpac collaboration that might have happened vs anything the media has talked about yet.  That stuff all makes for juicy sound bites that, after you read the entire context, and then they're pretty innocuous, in context. The rebubs will try to blow up the sound bites..lwe will see f they can overcome the noise f trumps video leak. So far.....not much luck.

[chineseblues]

Trump is in a bad mood right from the start tonight and already setting the stage against the moderators in case he loses the debate.

[pilferk]

To some extent, I feel like I could just copy and paste my reaction from the last debate. It was more of the same, but maybe taken to the next level.

In terms of a debate, she won, both on style and substance.  She looked presidential, had a much better grasp of the issues, and actually laid out some policy ideas this time.  She chose NOT to play fact checker this time which some are going to say will hurt her, but I think is a good move and allowed her to expand on her ideas.  She didn't interrupt him (except once, to point out that the thing he was accusing her of was AFTER her time at State) and she, better than Trump, actually stuck to the questions. I suspect some of her lack of counter punching last night was strategy: It was done to allow him to dig his own hole, and to not roll around in the mud with him.  I think that was probably a good strategy, given where she is right now. And it was effective in terms of actual DEBATE scoring.

He, again, managed about 20 minutes of civility before he went into full petulant child tantrum mode....but, in this debate, didn't have the 20 minutes of strong rhetoric to accompany it (like he did on trade in debate 1).  His optics (stalking her around the stage, humping his chair, scowling constantly, talking to himself) were AWFUL all night.  He essentially espoused facism, gave the president dictatorial powers, seemed to lack understanding of things like basic civics, foreign policy, and (oddly) economic growth.  You can tell the campaign tried to work on pivoting with him, and he pulled a Tim Kaine and just tried to pivot every single question (maybe because he couldn't answer? or maybe it was just strategy?). He didn't debate, so much as heckle all night (and not particularly well, IMHO...I think from that respect he did it better in the first debate).  He also spent some time reciting easily fact checked things, some of them bordering on facebook meme/snopes level of accuracy, which might play well to his base, but makes pretty much every other voter raise an eyebrow.  I've heard people say this was his "best debate performance".  I don't think it was really any better than the first debate....he wasn't terrible debate 1...it was, as I suspected, the Miss Universe stuff that killed him in the days after.  There were a number of similar moments in last nights debate...we'll see if any stick to the wall.

In terms of the polls and the election....the effect is, again, gonna be from what came before, and after.   This isn't going to move the needle one bit from where it was on Sunday (which, likely, is lower than what we are seeing in the polls right now..the weekends news will take a bit to show up).  His HRC hating base is going to LOVE what he did last night...it's their dream come true: Getting up there and yelling at, and ridiculing, HRC for 90 minutes in a national setting is what they love. It was pure spectacle for them.  But those folks were, pretty much, the same ones defending his comments on Friday and Saturday and into Sunday.  They weren't leaving.  And the first 20 minutes of last night ensures that the Repubs that left him over the weekend aren't likely coming back after what they saw.  For HRC...she didn't do anything to win any voters last night but, honestly, he didn't throw anything at her that's going to cost her votes, either.  The things he brought up are things that have been litigated in the courts of public opinion (and law) for almost THIRTY YEARS.  Is it fun for his base to bring them back up and roll around in them? Absolutely. But it's just political masturbation for those folks, at this point. She was steady, but not spectacular....which is probably what she needs to do right now. He's doing more damage to himself than anything she could probably do.

As an update: I'm still voting Cthulhu/Godzilla this year.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Trump won the debate last night. He put the "Grab them by the p---" tape in the rear view mirror and definitely threw Hillary off her game.

Trump had some stumbles, he always does. So not a grand slam or even a home run. Don't think he gained, just stopped the free fall he was in which is what he needed to do. We know he isn't polished as far as mannerisms, but he had some substance to him. Got a bit incoherent on foreign policy, probably his worst moment.

Hillary's "Abe Lincoln" response to the Wikileaks release of the Goldman Sachs speeches was laughable.

Still think she will win the election, too much of an uphill climb for Trump. He is is own worst enemy. Hillary should feel fortunate that Trump is the GOP nominee, anyone else she'd be done by now.

Bottom line, Trump lives to fight another day.

[pilferk]

Trump won the debate last night. He put the "Grab them by the p---" tape in the rear view mirror and definitely threw Hillary off her game.

How so?

I mean...the tape is still the topic of morning news shows this morning (and probably for the next few days).  Simply breezing past it, and not really addressing it in a substantial way isn't "putting it in his rear view"....at least not for most folks. He did nothing to pull voters back in who were offended by it. He showed no real contrition. He half heartedly apologized and then he basically fell back on trying to obfuscate by saying "Her husband has done worse"....which I don't think is a winning strategy except with his (already assured...and shrinking) base. And it's not putting things in his rear view mirror...at least not to me.  He "survived" it....in the very short term...but I'm not sure that's the same thing.

I'm also confused as to where you think Hillary was thrown "off her game", specifically. I just didn't see it.  I saw her not counter-punching back on his factual innaccuracies, but....I think that was by design.  She seemed poised and able to answer pretty much everything he threw at her (or the moderators did).  He, on the other hand, did not appear to be able to do the same.

Again, if you HATE HRC, you probably liked what you saw.  But that's not DEBATING. 

Trump had some stumbles, he always does. So not a grand slam or even a home run. Don't think he gained, just stopped the free fall he was in which is what he needed to do. We know he isn't polished as far as mannerisms, but he had some substance to him. Got a bit incoherent on foreign policy, probably his worst moment.

Way more stumbles than substance.

In fact, I missed the substance.  In almost every case of discussing policy, he was factually wrong.  The fact checkers are having a field day with his statements. He displayed a stunning inability to grasp the most basic concepts (like 3 branches of govt, what an independant prosecutor does, and how it works, foriegn policy, domestic policy....and the man advocated facism that Amnesty International would condemn and is functionally illegal in the US).  What substance? Ridiculing and "roasting" HRC isn't substance.....

His discussion of obamacare and alleppo are two great examples.

1) He basically, when asked about obamacare, said he would have "such good plans". but when pressed....that's all we got.  "Good plans".

2) He essentially couldn't talk about alleppo at all, and tried to pivot to Mosul (which has nothing to do with Syria).

Where was the substance? I've just read through the transcripts and STILL can't find it.

Hillary's "Abe Lincoln" response to the Wikileaks release of the Goldman Sachs speeches was laughable.

It was laughable (and maybe his best moment of the debate).

Except....it's also true.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/factchecking-the-second-presidential-debate/?platform=hootsuite

From the speech/email/wikileak in question:

Clinton (as quoted by Wikileaks): You just have to sort of figure out how to ? getting back to that word, ?balance? ? how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that?s not just a comment about today.

That, I think, has probably been true for all of our history, and if you saw the Spielberg movie, ?Lincoln,? and how he was maneuvering and working to get the 13th Amendment passed, and he called one of my favorite predecessors, Secretary Seward, who had been the governor and senator from New York, ran against Lincoln for president, and he told Seward, I need your help to get this done. And Seward called some of his lobbyist friends who knew how to make a deal, and they just kept going at it.

I mean, politics is like sausage being made. It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody?s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.

This is why context, for all those 6 word "gotchas" is important.

She basically said "You have to be willing to compromise" in the above statement. 

I know Trump seems to find that term offensive....but I'm not sure how anyone else could.

Still think she will win the election, too much of an uphill climb for Trump. He is is own worst enemy. Hillary should feel fortunate that Trump is the GOP nominee, anyone else she'd be done by now.

Agree.  I've said it time and again: If any of the past Republican candidates of my lifetime (with the possible exception of GWB) were on the ticket, they'd get my vote.  Over half of the other candidates running for the Repub nom this year would have gotten my vote over HRC, too.....and I think 12 of them would probably be leading in the polls right now (and that's probably the number I would have felt comfortable being president, too).

Bottom line, Trump lives to fight another day.

Yeah, I don't think anything that happened last night was going to prevent that, unless he literally or figuratively walked in and set himself on fire. If him NOT doing that is your metric for "winning"...then that's a pretty low bar.  But he's going to be down to his hardcore base...about 35-37% of voters...and he did nothing to expand that last night.  She didn't do anything to expand her voter block either...but at this point, she doesn't have to. She also didn't do anything to push any voters away. He's scoring more points for her than she is....the unforced errors are doing for her more than she could probably do for herself, at this point.

[tim_m]

The part of the debate where he said she'd be in jail if he were president was almost worse then his half asseed explanation of the tape. He clearly has no understanding of how a special prosecutor works. Even if he had the power as president to do it exactly the way he said how would he guarantee she'd be in jail? Is he gonna bribe the prosecutor to press charges? Just cause he has her investigated doesn't make charges a certainty. If it went to trial how would he assure a conviction? Bribe the jury? It was a flat out ridiculous statement.