Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Temporary ban on Muslims was clumsy, but I get the reasoning behind it. Banning travel to the US for specific nationals originating from specific countries where ISIS has influence would accomplish the same thing without offending an entire religion.

When he announced he was running, he did not specify a difference between legal and illegal immigration from Mexico. Press has been dogging him on this ever since even though he's clarified his remarks for several months now and many are ignoring that part.

 I totally agree the hate toward Trump is really unfair, its dirty politics from the Democrats and republican establishment. But Trump also shoots himself in the foot a lot as well. What not well thought out statement will he make as President if he wins and how will it affect things? Say, toward another world leader?

[COMAMOTIVE]

I hate how much bullshit and lies are twisted on Trump by the media

He comes out against Illegal immigration and somehow that gets twisted into hating Hispanics. That's bullshit. He says a temporary ban on Muslims until something can be figured out to make sure only good ones come in, that gets turned into he is kicking all Muslims out of the country. Drives me crazy. Hate the guy for legit reasons but at least stop hating him for shit he hasn't even said.

Not a fan and I don't even think he's a Republican at all - but you are dead on about this -
Not that he even ever helps himself, but it's been a brutal job by the media despite the overabundance of coverage

[tim_m]

There's plenty legit reasons to criticize Trump, such as inciting violence. When you got a candidate running for president telling supporters at his rally to beat protesters and hoping they get carried out on a stretcher. Or that he'll pay the legal bills for the guy that sucker punched a protester you got problems. Anyone that is ok with this has issues.

[COMAMOTIVE]

There's plenty legit reasons to criticize Trump, such as inciting violence. When you got a candidate running for president telling supporters at his rally to beat protesters and hoping they get carried out on a stretcher. Or that he'll pay the legal bills for the guy that sucker punched a protester you got problems. Anyone that is ok with this has issues.

Pretty sure what you just stated was the point of the previous poster's comment. Regardless, it doesn't matter - Trump is an idiot who is starting to wear thin - Hillary is going to smoke him in the general, should he hang on to get the nod 

[Axlfreek]

Mexican flag hung by construction worker at Vancouver's Trump Tower


"Diego Saul Reyna, a steel framer, hung the flag from the top floor of the project which is under construction, to show Donald Trump how vital Mexican workers are to his business.
?From the concrete pouring, finishing, drywall, taping, wood forming and general labour, Mexicans were there, building it,? Reyna wrote on Facebook Saturday. ?The comments Trump has made about us, did not stop us from doing the high quality work we have always done, in our home country or when we migrate to north america [sic].
?MR Trump, we did our best work, your tower here in Vancouver is premium quality, and we were a crucial part of it, not just Mexicans but immigrants as a whole.?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/construction-worker-flies-mexican-flag-from-roof-of-trump-tower-in-vancouver-1.3518991

[Drew]

Here's the thing, Drew: The uninsured immigrants?  They account for roughly 8% of the self pay (which, fyi, is a misnomer...self pay really means "no insurance and unlikely to collect any funds for that care") health care provided in this country.

The roughly 8% is a problem for me. That should be 0% coverage being paid to illegal immigrants. That small percentage will only grow larger. But again, people hear the word "free" and think how wonderful. Free healthcare. Free education. Nothing is free! When it comes to illegals, there is a legal and responsible way to become a citizen that should be enforced. Why reward someone who's broken the law with free cash, free education, and free healthcare? I've been paying for my health insurance for almost twenty years. There's been malpractice and fraud through out those years, but since the healthcare passed, my premiums went up and my co-pays went up. Why all of a sudden. And still, you have Clinton and Sanders welcoming more immigrants to break the law and enter the U.S illegally. I'm all for immigration no matter where one might be from. But do it the correct way and enforce the law. Don't continue to entice people to break immigration laws and cross borders illegally by giving them "free" healthcare, education, etc.

[tim_m]

There's plenty legit reasons to criticize Trump, such as inciting violence. When you got a candidate running for president telling supporters at his rally to beat protesters and hoping they get carried out on a stretcher. Or that he'll pay the legal bills for the guy that sucker punched a protester you got problems. Anyone that is ok with this has issues.

Pretty sure what you just stated was the point of the previous poster's comment. Regardless, it doesn't matter - Trump is an idiot who is starting to wear thin - Hillary is going to smoke him in the general, should he hang on to get the nod 

Yep i just got a new poll update and Cruz is hot on his trail and seems like a good possibility to win Wisconsin primary tomorrow. Meanwhile Sanders is gaining on Clinton as well. Should be a wild finish and possibly contested conventions.

[tim_m]

Here's the thing, Drew: The uninsured immigrants?  They account for roughly 8% of the self pay (which, fyi, is a misnomer...self pay really means "no insurance and unlikely to collect any funds for that care") health care provided in this country.

The roughly 8% is a problem for me. That should be 0% coverage being paid to illegal immigrants. That small percentage will only grow larger. But again, people hear the word "free" and think how wonderful. Free healthcare. Free education. Nothing is free! When it comes to illegals, there is a legal and responsible way to become a citizen that should be enforced. Why reward someone who's broken the law with free cash, free education, and free healthcare? I've been paying for my health insurance for almost twenty years. There's been malpractice and fraud through out those years, but since the healthcare passed, my premiums went up and my co-pays went up. Why all of a sudden. And still, you have Clinton and Sanders welcoming more immigrants to break the law and enter the U.S illegally. I'm all for immigration no matter where one might be from. But do it the correct way and enforce the law. Don't continue to entice people to break immigration laws and cross borders illegally by giving them "free" healthcare, education, etc.

There ere other reasons why premiums and co pays have gone up. It's not as cut and dry as most think and it's not directly related to obamacare as most assume. FYI illegals do not get things like obamacare. They get emergency care only.

[pilferk]

Here's the thing, Drew: The uninsured immigrants?  They account for roughly 8% of the self pay (which, fyi, is a misnomer...self pay really means "no insurance and unlikely to collect any funds for that care") health care provided in this country.

The roughly 8% is a problem for me. That should be 0% coverage being paid to illegal immigrants. That small percentage will only grow larger. But again, people hear the word "free" and think how wonderful. Free healthcare. Free education. Nothing is free! When it comes to illegals, there is a legal and responsible way to become a citizen that should be enforced. Why reward someone who's broken the law with free cash, free education, and free healthcare? I've been paying for my health insurance for almost twenty years. There's been malpractice and fraud through out those years, but since the healthcare passed, my premiums went up and my co-pays went up. Why all of a sudden. And still, you have Clinton and Sanders welcoming more immigrants to break the law and enter the U.S illegally. I'm all for immigration no matter where one might be from. But do it the correct way and enforce the law. Don't continue to entice people to break immigration laws and cross borders illegally by giving them "free" healthcare, education, etc.

Except...read what I wrote, again. You're not getting it, which is entirely the point.

They don't get coverage, presently.  Thus "self pay".  But....they may need emergent care.  Or..is your proposal that healthcare facilities should refuse treatment and allow them to die?

And, as you point out, nothing is free. So...if they get 0% coverage from anywhere...that means health care facilities are covering 100% of the cost of care...and passing that on to a small pool of consumers who use their services and somehow pay.  Now..the medicare patients can't cover that gap..they barely cover their own costs.  The medicaid funding can't cover that...they're short by about 50% in covering their own costs.  You don't collect, really, anything on patients who are "self pay" (and, again, 92% of those folks are citizens and don't pay..so losing the 8% wouldn't actually have much of an effect...so spare me the "kick them all out of the country" thing...besides being unrealistic, in terms of health care, they're a drop in the bucket).  So....those charges are passes along to the commercial insurance companies by charging them WAY over cost of services.  And here's the kicker: Your insurer knows it.  That's been SOP for 40 years or so.  But...as costs increase...so do charges.  So now insurers are covering increased costs for the care of THEIR customers, and those that can't pay (or are underinsured, like medicaid).   That's a MUCH smaller pool of people than, say, "All taxpayers".

If you're asking the question "why has it happened since healthcare passed"...you are, again, making my point.  You're assuming a correlation simply based on timing, rather than actually looking at causes.  Do some research.  And by that, I mean non-partisan, actual, research that isn't being used by some politician, on either side of the aisle, as a talking point.  Costs keep going up.  And that increase has been steeper over the past decade, and specifically the past 5 years, than at any other time prior.  And the market effects have almost NOTHING to do with Obamacare.  Supply costs, direct labor costs, and an almost DOUBLING of malpractice insurance premiums in some subspecialties. 

7 years ago, a Gyn/Ob (which is considered a high risk specialty) paid roughly $125,000 per year in malpractice insurance for a practice (2 to 3 docs).  That number today? $230,000.  Similar subspecialties like Neurosurgery, Cardiac Surgery, and Vascular Surgery have seen like increases.

That has zero to do with Obamacare. How do you think providers offset that increase?  Oh, right...Obamacare. 

[Drew]

They don't get coverage, presently.  Thus "self pay".  But....they may need emergent care.  Or..is your proposal that healthcare facilities should refuse treatment and allow them to die?

As long as the U.S. has leaders that don't enforce immigration laws, illegals are going to continue to enter this country and use emergency health care facilities and other facilities much more often which will only make that small percentage rise over time and cause a strain on the system. Why can't the immigration law be enforced? Why should someone here illegal and breaking the law be able to receive emergent free health care when millions of Americans who are paying insurance, high premiums, high co-pays to get the same emergent care illegals receive for free? Of course the medical industry is going to pass this cost on to the paying consumer. It's outrageous! So you have people like Obama, Clinton, and Sanders wanting to continue to give illegals all this "free" stuff. If immigration laws were enforced  it would have an effect on the cost the medical industry takes on by giving to people who are here illegally. People play God every day in this world. People make a personal choice to break the law and cross into the U.S illegally. Why should the American people take on the responsibility for providing medical and government services paid for by the U.S. tax payer to deal with illegals breaking the law? I don't think it's my responsibility or the U.S. citizens responsibility to pay taxes to take care these people. The immigration problem just didn't start, it's been going on for a long time. Who's going to pay for "free" healthcare to illegals who don't want to buy insurance? Who's going to pay for the "free" education given to illegals? Obama, Clinton and Sanders don't want to answer that question. The answer is...the U.S. tax payer is going to pay that cost.

[pilferk]

They don't get coverage, presently.  Thus "self pay".  But....they may need emergent care.  Or..is your proposal that healthcare facilities should refuse treatment and allow them to die?

As long as the U.S. has leaders that don't enforce immigration laws, illegals are going to continue to enter this country and use emergency health care facilities and other facilities much more often which will only make that small percentage rise over time and cause a strain on the system. Why can't the immigration law be enforced? Why should someone here illegal and breaking the law be able to receive emergent free health care when millions of Americans who are paying insurance, high premiums, high co-pays to get the same emergent care illegals receive for free? Of course the medical industry is going to pass this cost on to the paying consumer. It's outrageous! So you have people like Obama, Clinton, and Sanders wanting to continue to give illegals all this "free" stuff. If immigration laws were enforced  it would have an effect on the cost the medical industry takes on by giving to people who are here illegally. People play God every day in this world. People make a personal choice to break the law and cross into the U.S illegally. Why should the American people take on the responsibility for providing medical and government services paid for by the U.S. tax payer to deal with illegals breaking the law? I don't think it's my responsibility or the U.S. citizens responsibility to pay taxes to take care these people. The immigration problem just didn't start, it's been going on for a long time. Who's going to pay for "free" healthcare to illegals who don't want to buy insurance? Who's going to pay for the "free" education given to illegals? Obama, Clinton and Sanders don't want to answer that question. The answer is...the U.S. tax payer is going to pay that cost.

Yup, thanks for completely making my original point for me 

[GeorgeSteele]

Yes, it's always the illegal immigrants, if not for them, our lives would be so much better.  I'm reminded of the story where the banker and the worker have 12 cookies, the banker takes 11 and says to the worker, "watch out, an immigrant is going to take your cookie." 

[tim_m]

Here's the thing, Drew: The uninsured immigrants?  They account for roughly 8% of the self pay (which, fyi, is a misnomer...self pay really means "no insurance and unlikely to collect any funds for that care") health care provided in this country.

The roughly 8% is a problem for me. That should be 0% coverage being paid to illegal immigrants. That small percentage will only grow larger. But again, people hear the word "free" and think how wonderful. Free healthcare. Free education. Nothing is free! When it comes to illegals, there is a legal and responsible way to become a citizen that should be enforced. Why reward someone who's broken the law with free cash, free education, and free healthcare? I've been paying for my health insurance for almost twenty years. There's been malpractice and fraud through out those years, but since the healthcare passed, my premiums went up and my co-pays went up. Why all of a sudden. And still, you have Clinton and Sanders welcoming more immigrants to break the law and enter the U.S illegally. I'm all for immigration no matter where one might be from. But do it the correct way and enforce the law. Don't continue to entice people to break immigration laws and cross borders illegally by giving them "free" healthcare, education, etc.

Except...read what I wrote, again. You're not getting it, which is entirely the point.

They don't get coverage, presently.  Thus "self pay".  But....they may need emergent care.  Or..is your proposal that healthcare facilities should refuse treatment and allow them to die?

And, as you point out, nothing is free. So...if they get 0% coverage from anywhere...that means health care facilities are covering 100% of the cost of care...and passing that on to a small pool of consumers who use their services and somehow pay.  Now..the medicare patients can't cover that gap..they barely cover their own costs.  The medicaid funding can't cover that...they're short by about 50% in covering their own costs.  You don't collect, really, anything on patients who are "self pay" (and, again, 92% of those folks are citizens and don't pay..so losing the 8% wouldn't actually have much of an effect...so spare me the "kick them all out of the country" thing...besides being unrealistic, in terms of health care, they're a drop in the bucket).  So....those charges are passes along to the commercial insurance companies by charging them WAY over cost of services.  And here's the kicker: Your insurer knows it.  That's been SOP for 40 years or so.  But...as costs increase...so do charges.  So now insurers are covering increased costs for the care of THEIR customers, and those that can't pay (or are underinsured, like medicaid).   That's a MUCH smaller pool of people than, say, "All taxpayers".

If you're asking the question "why has it happened since healthcare passed"...you are, again, making my point.  You're assuming a correlation simply based on timing, rather than actually looking at causes.  Do some research.  And by that, I mean non-partisan, actual, research that isn't being used by some politician, on either side of the aisle, as a talking point.  Costs keep going up.  And that increase has been steeper over the past decade, and specifically the past 5 years, than at any other time prior.  And the market effects have almost NOTHING to do with Obamacare.  Supply costs, direct labor costs, and an almost DOUBLING of malpractice insurance premiums in some subspecialties. 

7 years ago, a Gyn/Ob (which is considered a high risk specialty) paid roughly $125,000 per year in malpractice insurance for a practice (2 to 3 docs).  That number today? $230,000.  Similar subspecialties like Neurosurgery, Cardiac Surgery, and Vascular Surgery have seen like increases.

That has zero to do with Obamacare. How do you think providers offset that increase?  Oh, right...Obamacare. 

You can't forget the outrageous costs with prescription drugs either. That is another huge part of the problem.

[pilferk]

You can't forget the outrageous costs with prescription drugs either. That is another huge part of the problem.

Yup.

There's other factors, too.  I just wanted to give a couple of examples.

[pilferk]

Yes, it's always the illegal immigrants, if not for them, our lives would be so much better.  I'm reminded of the story where the banker and the worker have 12 cookies, the banker takes 11 and says to the worker, "watch out, an immigrant is going to take your cookie." 

This is what happens when people fixate on a talking point (or talking points), rather than understanding, and discussing, an actual issue.

[Drew]

This is what happens when people fixate on a talking point (or talking points), rather than understanding, and discussing, an actual issue.

FYI...it's NOT a talking point. It's from my own personal experience. And after almost twenty years of my insurance premiums, co-pays, etc. have been the same, it only changes once Obama's health-care comes in to play. I'm not crazy enough to believe that malpractice claims haven't reason over the past twenty years, medications haven't risen over the past twenty years, and hospitals and other health care providers haven't taken on any extra cost. Of course they have. No one here has been able to explain why I never had increases to the effect I've experienced recently. For people to just throw out the excuses well the insurance companies and hospitals are going to raise prices on everything and blame it on Obama's health care so they can make more profit is a real stretch. I think these companies could have come up with a hundred more logical excuses to raise prices that have direct effects on insurance policies over the past twenty years.

When a President and potential Presidents welcome illegals into this country with "free" handouts, it's going to have a major impact on the average hard working U.S. citizen.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

One of the big failings of Obamacare is that there are no price controls. The price of health care and prescription drugs keep rising and the government subsidizes the cost of insurance. This is a dream of insurance companies as they can raise premiums knowing the government will pay part of it.

If a republican gets in office Obamacare will end, affecting many of those who relied on those subsidies. Also, people who had insurance policies that were deemed substandard under Obamacare and were cancelled will be able to buy more affordable insurance again. 

[pilferk]

This is what happens when people fixate on a talking point (or talking points), rather than understanding, and discussing, an actual issue.

FYI...it's NOT a talking point. It's from my own personal experience. And after almost twenty years of my insurance premiums, co-pays, etc. have been the same, it only changes once Obama's health-care comes in to play. I'm not crazy enough to believe that malpractice claims haven't reason over the past twenty years, medications haven't risen over the past twenty years, and hospitals and other health care providers haven't taken on any extra cost. Of course they have. No one here has been able to explain why I never had increases to the effect I've experienced recently. For people to just throw out the excuses well the insurance companies and hospitals are going to raise prices on everything and blame it on Obama's health care so they can make more profit is a real stretch. I think these companies could have come up with a hundred more logical excuses to raise prices that have direct effects on insurance policies over the past twenty years.

When a President and potential Presidents welcome illegals into this country with "free" handouts, it's going to have a major impact on the average hard working U.S. citizen.

It has been explained to you.  You don't want to actually read whats being written, and explained to you. Or you don't understand it. In either case...you're making my point. 

Costs have increased more over the past 7 years than at any other similar point in history. And those increases have NOTHING to do with Obamacare. In fact, the spike began BEFORE the health care law was passed.

Torte law (ie: increased awards in cases of malpractice, beyond the scope of reasonable damages) have nothing to do with Obamacare.

Supply cost increases have nothing to do with Obamacare. It has to do with corporations being left to run unchecked, market factors (like the spike in energy costs, which increased costs to produce and deliver...and were not (and probably never will be) "given back" when costs decreased,  a demand issue outside our country, and some estoteric trade agreement laws dating back to the Clinton and Bush II eras.

You can insist they do correlate to Obamacare...but you have no proof.  While there has been contrary evidence laid out for you.  You're essentially saying "since the timing coincides, it has to be true".  That's false logic at it's finest.

That's fixating on a talking point.

This is not the place for a master class in how healthcare works. I've given you the basics, which you'd rather ignore.  You're a voter and a citizen.  Go out and do some research that is NOT fueled by partisan politics on either side instead of asking for the information to be spoon fed to you.  Or don't. And continue to make my point for me.

[pilferk]

One of the big failings of Obamacare is that there are no price controls. The price of health care and prescription drugs keep rising and the government subsidizes the cost of insurance. This is a dream of insurance companies as they can raise premiums knowing the government will pay part of it.

Yes, I agree.  And that's largely because Obama dreamed of a world where he'd get bi-partisan support for the legislation, and weakened it, drastically, because of it.  Those cost controls aren't in there because they were viewed, by the Republicans, as interfering with private business.  Fair enough. It got him precisely 0 votes, so....

And FYI: the government actually doesn't subsidize it all.  Esp on the medicaid side of the fence.  State to state, reimbursement rates are down, on average.  Those cost increases are actually being met with a DECREASE in reimbursed funds.  Medicare is better..but even then it's less.

You and I, largely, are paying for it through increased premiums. That's actually one of my issues with the legislation, too,...is that it does nothing to mediate that.  Not for us, and not for those left to buy insurance in the marketplace.  There was no meaningful move toward torte reform, which was promised by BOTH sides, to help offset increases.  They basically only tackled 30% of the problem. 

I am no huge fan of the Obamacare legislation.  It definitely has issues.  And we might disagree on what those are...I don't know.  But where I draw the line is "blaming" it for things that it actually has no part of.

You can say it's problematic in that it doesn't have cost controls, but....that's not a direct effect.  It is not directly leading to those cost increases..it's just not actively stopping them.  In addition...the Repubs could introduce and pass a cost control legislation any time they want to.  And I'm pretty sure it would be signed into law.

If a republican gets in office Obamacare will end, affecting many of those who relied on those subsidies. Also, people who had insurance policies that were deemed substandard under Obamacare and were cancelled will be able to buy more affordable insurance again. 

1) I doubt it would make it through appeals, unless the Repubs somehow manage a 2/3's majority in the senate. That looks beyond them for this election cycle. I'd say doubly so if Trump is the nom (though Wisconsin changed everything) because you'll lose a chunk of the Repub base, you'll lose the independants, and that party will likely see record low turnout...even if you take into account "The Hillary Factor".

2) They can try to pass legislation that guts it or radically changes it, but even that will be hard, given the current budgetary and logistical challenges.  If they do, it would take roughly a decade to detangle it, completely.  So its here for awhile, and so is the individual mandate.

3) I think, with the current slate of Repub candidates, and the division in the party.....you should brace yourself for at least 4 more years of Democratic presidential control.  Because things are looking pretty dour with 7 months to go.

And, if that happens, Obamacare is never going to be significantly repealed.  In fact, if anything, you might see a move toward single payor.  That's the system that BOTH Dem candidates supported, at one time or another.  All depends on how the legislative elections go.

I'm voting for Godzilla, because all 4 of the obvious noms are crap, IMHO.

Godzilla 2016.

[GeorgeSteele]

Pilferk, whether it's Bernie or Hillary, I don't think we're going to see single payer anytime soon.  Assuming we're stuck with private insurance, what would be the most effective measures to reduce costs?

Republicans have often supported allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines.  First of all, I've never been entirely clear on why that's disallowed to begin with.  Second, at least on the surface, I don't see how allowing that would be incompatible with Obamacare.  And theoretically, it seems that providing more choice/competition would help reduce premiums.  I don't often agree on Republican platforms, but this one doesn't seem unreasonable.  How about we do away with state licensing completely and have just a single federal insurance license?

As for tort law reform, I can see how that would reduce costs, but wouldn't a limitation on damages just punish victims and reward wrongful conduct?