Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[jarmo]

Really? Does anyone here think the world is safer now after eight years or more dangerous. I think the overwhelming response would say the world is more dangerous now. Yes, extremism has been around for ever. Islamic terrorism is taking it to a new extreme now. Europe is now starting to pay the price for it's immigration problems. I don't want the same terrorism flowing over the borders like European countries have experienced. These Islamic terrorist are pouring into these countries as refugees and look how fast this has already backfired on France and Belgium.

So which way is it?

You're blaming the guy because the world isn't safer, and I pointed out it's never gotten safer.
Remember the Cold War?

Europe has had acts of terror before Obama set foot in the White House.
That's my point.



/jarmo

[GeorgeSteele]

I get the point you are trying to make, but that's like giving President Bush credit for the Boston Red Sox winning their first World Series since 1918 because was in office.

And we all know if it happened during the previous administration how much it would be hyped....

/jarmo

Without a doubt... That is the same President that landed a jet on an aircraft carrier with a Mission Accomplished Banner. He probably would have fast roped out of a Black Hawk on national television with his face painted like a Navy SEAL to make the announcement.

Which is why I stand by the fact that no matter who was in the chair in the Oval Office (or if they fall into my Political Party of choice) when OBL went down, no one but the SEAL Team, the Special Forces Pilots, and the boots on the ground intelligence experts who uncovered this should get an ounce of credit.

Primarily, that's right, but I think there's something to be said for having the administration in charge direct those forces to where they should prioritize their resources.  Bush started a war in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 (actually, against a regime that was maybe the most effective in the region in suppressing radical Islam, but that's another discussion) and that war drained resources that could otherwise have been directed towards counter-terrorism efforts, including hunting down OBL.  I think winding down the war in Iraq during Obama's administration certainly contributed to allowing those parts of the military to focus on the more important anti-terrorism matters.   

[Drew]

Without a doubt... That is the same President that landed a jet on an aircraft carrier with a Mission Accomplished Banner. He probably would have fast roped out of a Black Hawk on national television with his face painted like a Navy SEAL to make the announcement.

Which is why I stand by the fact that no matter who was in the chair in the Oval Office (or if they fall into my Political Party of choice) when OBL went down, no one but the SEAL Team, the Special Forces Pilots, and the boots on the ground intelligence experts who uncovered this should get an ounce of credit.

And after that poor choice by George W. Bush we had Obama labeling ISIS as "JV" and 'On the run.' That's pretty clear Obama is clueless.

Your exactly right about who should receive credit for killing Osama.

So which way is it?

You're blaming the guy because the world isn't safer, and I pointed out it's never gotten safer.
Remember the Cold War?

Europe has had acts of terror before Obama set foot in the White House.
That's my point.

It's this way. The U.S. is in a Presidential election year. Does the country want to continue downward this horrible path it's on with another crony, Hillary Clinton from the current administration or is it time to try and go in another direction and find someone who will do their best to protect this county first and foremost, fix the horrible immigration policies finally, and put polices in play that will boost the economy, and help employment and pay wages. We already know that the polices currently in play are not working.

[jarmo]

It's this way. The U.S. is in a Presidential election year. Does the country want to continue downward this horrible path it's on with another crony, Hillary Clinton from the current administration or is it time to try and go in another direction and find someone who will do their best to protect this county first and foremost, fix the horrible immigration policies finally, and put polices in play that will boost the economy, and help employment and pay wages. We already know that the polices currently in play are not working.

So you're saying Sanders is the best choice for a safer world?


Help employment? Isn't that what Obama has done?

Yeah, I get it. A millionaire who got a little loan from his dad surely must know how to make America great again.



/jarmo

[Drew]

So you're saying Sanders is the best choice for a safer world?


Help employment? Isn't that what Obama has done?

Yeah, I get it. A millionaire who got a little loan from his dad surely must know how to make America great again.

I did not know who Sanders was when I first heard about him. But after watching him in interviews, he scares me as well. He has a huge support with young people because they see him as another President that gives away "free money." "Free healthcare." "Free education." etc. This always sounds good but how is this going to be paid for? Funny how that doesn't seem to come up. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the average American worker who will get their paycheck cut even more with taxes with more of this "free stuff." Sanders has no policies to combat Islamic terrorism. We can't have another President like Obama who sends some musician to Paris after the attacks with our Secretary of State to sing some kum ba yah 'You've got a friend' song. Really?  Sanders also has no policy to deal with Immigration either and wants to let thousands and thousands of refugees  and illegals come into this country. The U.S. immigration policy has been horrible for a very long time and it's time to fix it. Didn't Hillary just admit last week she wants to cover millions of illegal immigrants with healthcare? Why should I and hard working American's have to pay for illegal immigrants healthcare. That's more ignorance from the left. There's a pathway to legal U.S. citizenship and it should be followed.

Wages still are low and only certain people are counted by this Administration when it comes to unemployment. That's how they cook the books. So no, he hasn't help the economy. My healthcare has gone up. My taxes have gone up greatly under this current President as well.

There isn't a candidate running for President that doesn't worry me or scare me. Just ones that scare me a lot more than others.

[C0ma]

There isn't a candidate running for President that doesn't worry me or scare me. Just ones that scare me a lot more than others.

That's where I'm at...

Hillary - While I believe the email situation is being blown out of proportion, you have to realize that if her name wasn't Clinton and she was say Lt. Smith in some DOD position tied to the State Department and he/she passed the same information (whether classified or post dated as classified) he/she wold face court martial and a potential stay in Leavenworth.

Sanders - I outlined my view above, while I believe he has a good heart and really wants every person on a level playing field... He (based on direct quotes I have heard) has little understanding of basic finance, and frankly I cannot get behind anyone who classifies themselves as a Socialist... that is a historically failed ideology.

Cruz - I have the greatest fear of all over someone who is going to push a social agenda based on their religion... and not to 'rate' a specific religion or flavor of a religion above or below another, but these evangelical Christians that attend these Mega Churches are random strip mall churches that take over failed KMarts and WalMarts scare me as much as anyone there is... For evangelicals on the right to attack Islam and Sharia Law for their intolerance yet can't go more than 5 minutes without telling you about the virtues of their religion and how everything you do is wrong because you don't follow it just makes me laugh out loud... Cruz could be the best candidate in decades based on experience, fiscal policy, national security, and foreign relations, but to me the crazy Christian interpretation is a deal breaker.

Trump - do I really need to even waste the key strokes on a description?

What do I do in November???

I almost see Celebrity Apprentice: Oval Office as the least scary of the four.

[jarmo]

Yeah, I figured you lean more to the right.


You talk of Sanders supporters as if they are dumb.
Ironic considering they probably see the other side as dumb Fox News watching zombies....




/jarmo

[COMAMOTIVE]

So you're saying Sanders is the best choice for a safer world?
. Didn't Hillary just admit last week she wants to cover millions of illegal immigrants with healthcare? Why should I and hard working American's have to pay for illegal immigrants healthcare. That's more ignorance from the left. There's a pathway to legal U.S. citizenship and it should be followed.

There is the argument, right?

Everything has a cost. Nothing is free. Not only has my family's healthcare already increased because of Obamacare, but my company's cost of providing healthcare has now skyrocketed...which affects profits...which ultimately affects my raise and bonus potential. This is the message that does not get out.
And I'm all for providing healthcare too..but NOT THIS WAY... middle class getting screwed again and again

[GeorgeSteele]

It's confusing to me the way people jump on Sanders with questions about 'how do we pay for this?' when he promotes universal healthcare, tuition-free public college, paid family leave, expanding social security, etc.  Where are the 'how do we pay for this' questions when the right pushes for trillions (yes, trillions) in tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy?  Or when yet another chicken hawk politician (right and left) pushes for never-ending wars abroad?

The U.S. is the wealthiest nation in the world.  If just about every other industrialized country can afford such social programs, then the U.S. can as well, without a doubt.

The kicker is, these things are not 'free'.  You pay taxes, you get social services in return.  Factoring in federal taxes, state taxes, social security, Medicare, sales taxes, etc., the percentage taxes paid by your average U.S. middle class family is not vastly different than what's paid in the EU.  The difference is, they get a return on their tax payments, while we get more and more of a redundant nuclear arsenal and stugots!

[COMAMOTIVE]

It's confusing to me the way people jump on Sanders with questions about 'how do we pay for this?' when he promotes universal healthcare, tuition-free public college, paid family leave, expanding social security, etc.  Where are the 'how do we pay for this' questions when the right pushes for trillions (yes, trillions) in tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy?  Or when yet another chicken hawk politician (right and left) pushes for never-ending wars abroad?

The U.S. is the wealthiest nation in the world.  If just about every other industrialized country can afford such social programs, then the U.S. can as well, without a doubt.

The kicker is, these things are not 'free'.  You pay taxes, you get social services in return.  Factoring in federal taxes, state taxes, social security, Medicare, sales taxes, etc., the percentage taxes paid by your average U.S. middle class family is not vastly different than what's paid in the EU.  The difference is, they get a return on their tax payments, while we get more and more of a redundant nuclear arsenal and stugots!

George...no end though?
If you are adding entitlement programs and your country has massive debt as we do, you can't just say "we pay taxes so they can pay for it"
Doesn't add up that way.
If they say we are closing Guantanamo and the cost of that would've paid for Obamacare....(ludicrous thought, but we'll play along for now) then ok...we have a give and take
What the senator is talking about is even making some Dems shake their head because it's complete fiction

[GeorgeSteele]

It's confusing to me the way people jump on Sanders with questions about 'how do we pay for this?' when he promotes universal healthcare, tuition-free public college, paid family leave, expanding social security, etc.  Where are the 'how do we pay for this' questions when the right pushes for trillions (yes, trillions) in tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy?  Or when yet another chicken hawk politician (right and left) pushes for never-ending wars abroad?

The U.S. is the wealthiest nation in the world.  If just about every other industrialized country can afford such social programs, then the U.S. can as well, without a doubt.

The kicker is, these things are not 'free'.  You pay taxes, you get social services in return.  Factoring in federal taxes, state taxes, social security, Medicare, sales taxes, etc., the percentage taxes paid by your average U.S. middle class family is not vastly different than what's paid in the EU.  The difference is, they get a return on their tax payments, while we get more and more of a redundant nuclear arsenal and stugots!

George...no end though?
If you are adding entitlement programs and your country has massive debt as we do, you can't just say "we pay taxes so they can pay for it"
Doesn't add up that way.
If they say we are closing Guantanamo and the cost of that would've paid for Obamacare....(ludicrous thought, but we'll play along for now) then ok...we have a give and take
What the senator is talking about is even making some Dems shake their head because it's complete fiction

No, of course there are limits.  The question is why less wealthy countries have further limits than we do. 

Also, Sanders has offered revenue proposals for his programs.  Public college tuition is paid for by a financial transactions tax as low as .005% per transaction.  Universal health care is paid for with a payroll tax that will be thousands less than what a middle class family currently pays in premiums.  Social security is expanded by removing the exemption on wages over $118,000 (why that exemption exists makes no sense to me).  Beyond that, do we need to have a military budget that is almost as much of the rest of the world combined? 

[westcoast_junkie]

There isn't a candidate running for President that doesn't worry me or scare me. Just ones that scare me a lot more than others.

and frankly I cannot get behind anyone who classifies themselves as a Socialist... that is a historically failed ideology.

No, it's not.  Socialism has proved to fit like hand in glove with the welfare state. What people sometimes seems to forget, is that with rights there's also follows a handfull of duties. And I don't even consider Bernie a Socialist,  but a socialdemocrat.

[tim_m]

So you're saying Sanders is the best choice for a safer world?


Help employment? Isn't that what Obama has done?

Yeah, I get it. A millionaire who got a little loan from his dad surely must know how to make America great again.

I did not know who Sanders was when I first heard about him. But after watching him in interviews, he scares me as well. He has a huge support with young people because they see him as another President that gives away "free money." "Free healthcare." "Free education." etc. This always sounds good but how is this going to be paid for? Funny how that doesn't seem to come up. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the average American worker who will get their paycheck cut even more with taxes with more of this "free stuff." Sanders has no policies to combat Islamic terrorism. We can't have another President like Obama who sends some musician to Paris after the attacks with our Secretary of State to sing some kum ba yah 'You've got a friend' song. Really?  Sanders also has no policy to deal with Immigration either and wants to let thousands and thousands of refugees  and illegals come into this country. The U.S. immigration policy has been horrible for a very long time and it's time to fix it. Didn't Hillary just admit last week she wants to cover millions of illegal immigrants with healthcare? Why should I and hard working American's have to pay for illegal immigrants healthcare. That's more ignorance from the left. There's a pathway to legal U.S. citizenship and it should be followed.

Wages still are low and only certain people are counted by this Administration when it comes to unemployment. That's how they cook the books. So no, he hasn't help the economy. My healthcare has gone up. My taxes have gone up greatly under this current President as well.

There isn't a candidate running for President that doesn't worry me or scare me. Just ones that scare me a lot more than others.

Sanders does have a plan for ISIS. It just doesn't involve us getting into another ground war. He wants a coalition of other Muslim countries to get in there and take care of their own garbage. Continuing to stick our nose into other Muslim countries isn't going to get rid of them. It is going to continue to make it worse.

[pilferk]

I did not know who Sanders was when I first heard about him. But after watching him in interviews, he scares me as well. He has a huge support with young people because they see him as another President that gives away "free money." "Free healthcare." "Free education." etc. This always sounds good but how is this going to be paid for? Funny how that doesn't seem to come up. Someone has to pay for it and it will be the average American worker who will get their paycheck cut even more with taxes with more of this "free stuff." Sanders has no policies to combat Islamic terrorism. We can't have another President like Obama who sends some musician to Paris after the attacks with our Secretary of State to sing some kum ba yah 'You've got a friend' song. Really?  Sanders also has no policy to deal with Immigration either and wants to let thousands and thousands of refugees  and illegals come into this country. The U.S. immigration policy has been horrible for a very long time and it's time to fix it. Didn't Hillary just admit last week she wants to cover millions of illegal immigrants with healthcare? Why should I and hard working American's have to pay for illegal immigrants healthcare. That's more ignorance from the left. There's a pathway to legal U.S. citizenship and it should be followed.

Wages still are low and only certain people are counted by this Administration when it comes to unemployment. That's how they cook the books. So no, he hasn't help the economy. My healthcare has gone up. My taxes have gone up greatly under this current President as well.

There isn't a candidate running for President that doesn't worry me or scare me. Just ones that scare me a lot more than others.

GAH....I've stayed out til now, but the healthcare shit displays such a stunning lack of information on the industry, I have to step in.

Here's the thing, Drew: The uninsured immigrants?  They account for roughly 8% of the self pay (which, fyi, is a misnomer...self pay really means "no insurance and unlikely to collect any funds for that care") health care provided in this country. 

The other 92%? All US citizens.

That's the first point.  Your "tax dollars" (note quotes...because if they are uninsured currently, your tax dollars aren't supporting anything as yet) are not, by and large, supporting health care for the illegal. And under Hillary's plan (which also call for adding the rest of the 92% to the insurance rolls), far more of those dollars would be supporint US citizens than not.  Even if we deported every uninsured illegal in the country, it would amount to about 1.5 years worth of growth in the Medicaid/Medicare enrollment.  If that.  Those that tell you otherwise are fear mongering to get you to act in a very particular way. But there's also MUCH more to this issue that isn't being accounted for.

Guess why your insurance premiums are so high? Because Medicaid..the STATE piece of the "free healthcare" system you despise so much pays somewhere between .30 and .40 cents on the dollar for care provided.  In my state, it's .32 cents.

Guess what percentage of patients are on Medicaid in most states?  25% to 35%.  And an even higher % of pediatric patients.  That means, for most providers, you are LOSING money on about 1/3 of your patients. Pontentially a LOT of money.

You break even on Medicare, which pays about .70 on the dollar.  That's about another 1/3 of your patients.

So...wanna guess why charges to private insurance (that is...the people working who have insurance either through work or the marketplace) are so high?  Because providers can't fund a losing business.  Because they'd like to be able to pay their outrageous medical malpractice insurance fees and still make a living so that maybe THEY can afford to make a living wage (or reinvest in the institution). So..someone has to pay more.  Those insurers are charged (and they know it, it's part of the negotiating process) roughly 125% of what they SHOULD be, normally.  Guess what that does to your premiums? You are paying FAR more, in increased insurance premiums, than you are in taxes to support Medicare and Medicaid.

So...want to know how to get around that? You get EVERYONE INSURED that you can in private insurance.  The more in that pool, the smaller that extra percentage tacked on has to be.  So then charges can come down and you even the playing field.  This isn't theory, FYI.  This is real world financial analysis from one of the largest, best known, healthcare facilities on the PLANET...that was on the verge of leading the charge by budgeting an 80 million dollar annual reduction in their charges (til the state stepped in and decided to invent a new tax, and levy it against non-profit hospitals...and that tax, FYI, had ZERO to do with offsetting medicaid cost increases). IT WAS WORKING!!

And here's the rub: You can't say "Well then don't take care of certain people".  That's not an option.  Doctors operate under an oath.  They HAVE to provide emergent care to people in dire need.  Not for profit hospitals are literally NOT ALLOWED to turn patients away seeking treatment for a disease or injury.  EVERY PROVIDER is required to take Medicaid (and most are required to take Medicare).

Not to mention, you are left with, ultimately, deciding to play god if you say "Dont take care of these people or those people".  You literally have to decide who can live, and who can't.

Look, you want to talk other issues....great.  I'm probably out.  I've been down the politics road here at HTGTH before, and I got bored.  But healthcare?  Nope, sorrynotsorry.  There's too much talk going on from people who have NO IDEA what they're talking about...on both sides of the aisle...on this topic to let it go.  You are talking about people like they are dollars.  They aren't.  They are people.  You are talking about life and death, here....with little to no knowledge on the topic you're discussing.  That's you're right, but honestly...it's offensive to read.

[pilferk]

There isn't a candidate running for President that doesn't worry me or scare me. Just ones that scare me a lot more than others.

That's where I'm at...

Hillary - While I believe the email situation is being blown out of proportion, you have to realize that if her name wasn't Clinton and she was say Lt. Smith in some DOD position tied to the State Department and he/she passed the same information (whether classified or post dated as classified) he/she wold face court martial and a potential stay in Leavenworth.

Sanders - I outlined my view above, while I believe he has a good heart and really wants every person on a level playing field... He (based on direct quotes I have heard) has little understanding of basic finance, and frankly I cannot get behind anyone who classifies themselves as a Socialist... that is a historically failed ideology.

Cruz - I have the greatest fear of all over someone who is going to push a social agenda based on their religion... and not to 'rate' a specific religion or flavor of a religion above or below another, but these evangelical Christians that attend these Mega Churches are random strip mall churches that take over failed KMarts and WalMarts scare me as much as anyone there is... For evangelicals on the right to attack Islam and Sharia Law for their intolerance yet can't go more than 5 minutes without telling you about the virtues of their religion and how everything you do is wrong because you don't follow it just makes me laugh out loud... Cruz could be the best candidate in decades based on experience, fiscal policy, national security, and foreign relations, but to me the crazy Christian interpretation is a deal breaker.

Trump - do I really need to even waste the key strokes on a description?

What do I do in November???

I almost see Celebrity Apprentice: Oval Office as the least scary of the four.

I'm with you..they all suck.

I'd like to write in a vote for Godzilla.  He would be less dangerous, and likely less destructive.

Since my state will almost assuredly vote in overwhelming numbers for whoever wins the Dem nom....I might even do that.

If not, I won't be voting for who I think will be a good candidate, but who I think will be the lesser evil (ie: ANYONE BUT TRUMP). In other words, I will be voting AGAINST someone, not FOR someone.  That's a terrible position to be in, going into an election.

[pilferk]

There is the argument, right?

Everything has a cost. Nothing is free. Not only has my family's healthcare already increased because of Obamacare, but my company's cost of providing healthcare has now skyrocketed...which affects profits...which ultimately affects my raise and bonus potential. This is the message that does not get out.
And I'm all for providing healthcare too..but NOT THIS WAY... middle class getting screwed again and again

FYI: That's likely not really a result of Obamacare. Or not mostly.  The timing doesn't immediately indicate causality.

It's probably the result of other factors, and is being BLAMED on Obamacare (either by your provider, or your favorite politician).

There are other market factors at work, actually.  Reimbursed care (ie: patients who actually pay for their care, somehow) has actually gone up, at most institutions, which SHOULD clear way for a reduction in charges (see my previous post....it was ALMOST here..but thanks Gov Malloy).

BUT, there has been a marked increase in indirect costs (supplies, etc). That has nothing to do with Obamacare.  There has been a marked, and continued, increase in malpractice premiums over the past decade or so (also nothing to do with Obamacare).  And there have been REDUCTION in medicaid reimbursement rates (also not because of Obamacare....but because of poor financial management by many state governments on things like State Employee pension plans) over the past 3 to 5 years. Those factors have resulted in increased charges.  The increase in reimbursed care has actually helped keep things slightly in check, if anything.

There's a LOT more going on in the market than Obamacare that are driving premiums up.  It's effect, from a financial analysis standpoint, is there...but it's not remotely the biggest causal in the equation.

[Thorned Rose]

A topic where everyone thinks they are right... yadda yadda...

I won't get into it much, but I do like Trump's immigration stance. Illegal immigrants really drag this country down. I have first hand experienced this, and know this. It's just factual.

If you're from another country, then become a citizen and come on over. Those that just come here because it is better, and do not pay taxes... well that speaks for itself. Nothing to say.

Trump is kinda silly, and I think would be a bad choice, but the basis of his ideas in general are good. He himself is just a goof I think.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Trump has some good ideas, but is really clumsy at portraying them and says things stream of consciousness. He also has some really bad ideas.

I'm happy there are more than 2 candidates to choose from this November, may people forget about that.

[tim_m]

Trump has some good ideas, but is really clumsy at portraying them and says things stream of consciousness. He also has some really bad ideas.

I'm happy there are more than 2 candidates to choose from this November, may people forget about that.

Most are just as awful as he is though. I do mostly like Kasich and i like Sanders. The rest its choosing the lesser of evils.

[D]

I hate how much bullshit and lies are twisted on Trump by the media

He comes out against Illegal immigration and somehow that gets twisted into hating Hispanics. That's bullshit. He says a temporary ban on Muslims until something can be figured out to make sure only good ones come in, that gets turned into he is kicking all Muslims out of the country. Drives me crazy. Hate the guy for legit reasons but at least stop hating him for shit he hasn't even said.