ARTICLE: My thoughts on the future of Guns N' Roses

[jarmo]

When he posts things like GN'R books certain venues only because that being the demand. He never says it's his opinion. It's presented as a fact and he will argue about it.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Not all of them.

But there is an alternate, equally valid, POV. And you are just as dismissive of IT, many times.  So........

And...you say it right there.  You're not claiming they're "facts".  They're interpretations based on your perceptions.

Given that....isn't is viable for someone who DOES have the facts to alert you to misconceptions/misinterpretations/false assumptions?

Even if I am only giving opinions, I always, always, always, always give rationale to explain why I think what I do.  Doesn't mean I'm right, but I feel you have to be able to support a pemise or theory you pout out there.

In Fernando's case, he's not giving me his opinion.  He's speaking from a position of fact.  But without anything to support it, I don't know how seriously I have to take it.

[D-GenerationX]

When he posts things like GN'R books certain venues only because that being the demand. He never says it's his opinion. It's presented as a fact and he will argue about it.

If I'm guilty of anything, its giving you FAR too much credit to be able to separate the two, it appears.

[pilferk]

That may have been too strong a term.  Because you are right, you don't treat me like that.  Some do, but I would not put you in their number.

Perhaps a better way to put it would "...the usual brigade of people who lament that I can't just fall in line."  Just about any disagreement I have can be traced back to that disconnect.  

I often come away from a day of posting here thinking a silent nod is the only acceptable response, according to some.  I think a lot of my "whining" is simply a case of "wait...does that sound a little off to anyone else?"

Which I consider innocuous.  But I tend to get pushback that suggest that even daring to ask that question is totally inappropriate.

Again, I don't think you should "fall in line", either. But an OPEN MIND might be nice, sometimes (and yes, you can lament that you aren't always presented with them, on the opposition, either).

I think you have a valid POV.  I think the near constant rescitation, though, makes it lose something in translation, at times.  

And...I sort of wish you were open to, and willing to accept, the alternatives. Not, necessarily, that they are the more likely to have happened, but at least their validity.  But se la vie.

But none of that is really pertinent to THIS discussion.  I just want to make sure MY position is clear.

 

[D-GenerationX]

No, I gotcha.  We're all good, pilfek.

I see what you are saying.

[FunkyMonkey]

So when someone who actually is in a position to know comes in, and says "That's incorrect".....I think that's where the armchair ends...

I don't think he's arguing Fernando doesn't know what he's talking about.  I believe his point is, coming in saying you're wrong without saying what is right doesn't advance things.

[jarmo]

If I'm guilty of anything, its giving you FAR too much credit to be able to separate the two, it appears.

It's not about me, it's about hoe you're wrong.

Maybe you're wrong again...


/jarmo

[pilferk]

Even if I am only giving opinions, I always, always, always, always give rationale to explain why I think what I do.  Doesn't mean I'm right, but I feel you have to be able to support a pemise or theory you pout out there.

In Fernando's case, he's not giving me his opinion.  He's speaking from a position of fact.  But without anything to support it, I don't know how seriously I have to take it.

Yes.

Because he is in a position to know the facts. We aren't.  And his position also carries with it an understable restriction on information sharing.

You take it seriously (or not) because of who he is, what he does, how long he's been doing it, and what his resume says.  Or at least more seriously than random folks like us playing armchair QB.  Thus, gravitas.

You can certainly take the anti-establishment position that "they" all lie, that "they" all are fountains of misinformation, I guess.

But...you can't really argue that he, inherently, KNOWS more about this topic than we do.  We surmise.  We assume.  We conjecture.

[jarmo]

You said what I said earlier, with a different accent.... 



/jarmo

[pilferk]

I don't think he's arguing Fernando doesn't know what he's talking about.  I believe his point is, coming in saying you're wrong without saying what is right doesn't advance things.

No, I get that.

And I"m saying: It does.  To a point.

It doesn't give us information.  But it corrects factual mistakes or incorrect assumptions.  You don't, necessarily, need information to get that. And it, in turn, advances the conversation because we now sorta know what ISN'T true.

You might want might want more info.  It would add more context.

But it's abcense doesn't stall things.

[D-GenerationX]

So when someone who actually is in a position to know comes in, and says "That's incorrect".....I think that's where the armchair ends...

I don't think he's arguing Fernando doesn't know what he's talking about.  I believe his point is, coming in saying you're wrong without saying what is right doesn't advance things.

Exactly.

I don't think anything was accomplished by him throwing that out there in the fashion he did.  That's all I was saying.

Not that's he's wrong.  Not that I'm right.  But rather that the conversation was not moved forward by any of this. 

[D-GenerationX]

But...you can't really argue that he, inherently, KNOWS more about this topic than we do.  We surmise.  We assume.  We conjecture.

True.

Keep in mind though, he never even said what he was correcting.  Demand in Philly, demand overall, the 2002 tour.  What was he even talking about?

Compare his vague answer to something along these lines :

"I can't get into the 2002 tour because there is litigation involved there.  But I can tell you that we did look at bigger venues in 2012, and actually had offers to do a leg of the tour in them.  But we thought it made more sense for us to keep it simple and do the smaller venues at that time."

In 2 sentences he has established :

- I am incorrect about their level of demand
- I am incorrect about their not attempting to look at bigger venues

Right?

[JAEBALL]

team brazil > stephen hawking

 

If they can get ol' Axl to finally put out the next friggin album (gulp) soon, I'd say they accomplished the equivalent of discovering The Big Bang Theory.

Oh I very much agree... Mucho props to them if it happens.

As far as Fernando coming in and telling DX that he is wrong... Fernando might very well be telling the truth and DX may very well be wrong about everything... but if he doesn't say why or what or how or when... well he really left it on a tee for DX to swing away.

I don't agree with the comparison to an expert like Hawking or any other guy in the know about a field. Fernando obviously has a vested interest in squashing any negative notion about his client's affairs.

As for DX, he is obviously stating his opinions, the readers here should understand by now that they are not fact, even if he states them in a way which comes off like it.

[D-GenerationX]

As for DX, he is obviously stating his opinions, the readers here should understand by now that they are not fact, even if he states them in a way which comes off like it.

100% correct.

In fairness, I only ever get that "this guy thinks he knows everything" routine from a handful of folks, the truly overemotional.

I always point to pilferk.  We disagree on everything, and never have an uncivil conversation.  But, to be honest, if he was coming at me with that tired "why are you here" type crap, that would not be the case.

Jarmo just indirectly indicted himself up the page, frankly.  He trying to make the case he just said the same thing as pilferk, but "in a different accent".  Yeah, it was a different something, alright.  But it wasn't an accent.

[jarmo]

Jarmo just indirectly indicted himself up the page, frankly.  He trying to make the case he just said the same thing as pilferk, but "in a different accent".  Yeah, it was a different something, alright.  But it wasn't an accent.

Yeah, because these two really differ a whole lot:

Here's the context for you, he's actually in the business and works with the artist you're a fan of.

Obviously he will know things you won't have a clue about. Why not just make peace with this fact? It's not that weird of a concept.
Everybody can't know everything about everything.

You're not as right as you want to be about GN'R. Sorry.
That's life.

Because he is in a position to know the facts. We aren't.  And his position also carries with it an understable restriction on information sharing.

You take it seriously (or not) because of who he is, what he does, how long he's been doing it, and what his resume says.  Or at least more seriously than random folks like us playing armchair QB.  Thus, gravitas.

You can certainly take the anti-establishment position that "they" all lie, that "they" all are fountains of misinformation, I guess.

But...you can't really argue that he, inherently, KNOWS more about this topic than we do.  We surmise.  We assume.  We conjecture.

Pretty much the same thing.

Except I didn't sugarcoat it to your liking... I don't like to generalize and put everybody in the same boat with you. I know there are fans out there who don't work with the band and so on, but they can think freely without coming up with mostly negative facts theories....

Sorry again. 


Aren't you one of those who seem to question my credibility over and over again? And now yours is in question....





/jarmo

[Slashrose]

anyone have any concrete news of the current situation of guns n roses ? Where you're going Axl ?

[JAEBALL]

anyone have any concrete news of the current situation of guns n roses ? Where you're going Axl ?

Nobody knows.

[mortismurphy]

''You (DGX) are wrong about most of the things you said in all of your posts in this thread''. Here is the specific quotation Fernando replied to (so presumably this is what he disagreed with most),

Hmm...maybe.  I think that's your high end, that figure.

Problem is, at least hear, we don't really have a venue that size.  We have a few that can seat a few thousand.  But you get over that, you have to go Wells Fargo, which is 20,000.  No shot they are filling that, and then you'd have to hang a shitload of black curtains over unsold seats.

The point I have been making, is that this is not specific to my town.  That's going to be the case in just about any 20,000 seat arena, thus making it unlikely those sorts of venues would be the goto move when it comes time to schedule.

Clear Channel lost a fortune in 2002 because they booked these basketball/hockey arenas that weren't close to being full.  I think that is the case now, as well.

So are we right in saying that Fernando believes,

- GN'R can play Wells Fargo, 20,000 capacity?

- GN'R can play any 20,000 capacity arena? (Correct me if I am wrong but this was focused on North America?)

- that the 2002 arena tour was a sell out?

- That Clear Channel did not lose a fortune on the 2002 tour?

[EmilyGNR]

anyone have any concrete news of the current situation of guns n roses ? Where you're going Axl ?

Guns N? Roses guitarist DJ Ashba?s recent resignation has left a void in the current lineup, but drummer Frank Ferrer says there are no hard feelings ? and he promises Ashba?s departure won?t impact the group?s future plans.

Ferrer shared the news during his appearance on the Geoff Lenox Show yesterday, admitting that even though there doesn?t seem to have been much direct contact between Axl Rose and the other members of GNR, everything is fine; as he put it, ?we?re still forging ahead.? ?It?s not really news,? he added. ?It?s, like, there?s a plan in place, and it?s happening, so that?s all I can say.?


Read More: Guns N' Roses Drummer Says the Band Is Still 'Forging Ahead' | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/guns-n-roses-2015-update/?trackback=tsmclip

 

[sofine11]

?It?s, like, there?s a plan in place, and it?s happening, so that?s all I can say.?

New album?