ARTICLE: My thoughts on the future of Guns N' Roses

[pilferk]

I agree.

But if you are going to make the decision to say nothing publicly that support your claims, why chime in?

Wouldn't it make more sense to sit around with others also in the inner circle and call up some of the posts they feel are offbase and just have a laugh with each other about it?

The rest of that inner circle has the context that supports why its so offbase.  None of us do.

The sky is purple.

No it's not

Prove it.

I'm not really in a position to do that, right this second, but....I can tell you, for sure, the sky is not purple.

Sometimes factually correcting someone's mistake/inaccuracy is enough of a reason to weigh in, without the need to provide further specificity.  That, to me, is pretty much what he's done.

And when you're discussing stuff like attendance, reasoning, and financials of tours he was involved in planning and executing....I think simply saying "Those assumptions are not correct" is enough to do that.

And when you're talking about CC in 2002.....I can at least weigh in a bit on that: I'm pretty sure (like 99.9%) CC didn't lose their shirts on the '02 tour, up to the point of cancellation.  They MIGHT have lost money on the Midwest leg, given what was projected for ticket sales.....but even that wasn't a sure thing.  That comes from reading some of the legal filings that are "out there" and talking with someone I knew, at the time, in promotions at CC (who is now working for TM). 

What gets me, though, is this:

People (and I'm pointing no fingers) bitch about a lack of contact with management.

When we finally DO get some contact (however brief it might ultimately be), people bitch because we have contact....but they can't really say too much.

You really can't have it all.  That's not the way this industry....and heck, not the way MOST industries...work.

[pilferk]

Hawkings was a great deadline pick up for the Jays!

Let's go Jays!

Man is older than dirt and still getting people out.

Think I could convince Mo to come out of retirement?

[TheBaconman]

Hawkings was a great deadline pick up for the Jays!

Let's go Jays!

Hahahaha.  That team looks like a monster now.

Ben Revere was my Dad's favorite current Phillies player.  He was crushed by that trade.

pops is welcome to join the jays band wagon.   Nows the time

This country was waiting for a new guns album and a new tour.  

But we are settling for the best baseball team in the world!

Let's go jays!

[D-GenerationX]

The sky is purple.

No it's not

Prove it.

I'm not really in a position to do that, right this second, but....I can tell you, for sure, the sky is not purple.

Sometimes factually correcting someone's mistake/inaccuracy is enough of a reason to weigh in, without the need to provide further specificity.  That, to me, is pretty much what he's done.

Kind of a reach here as color is a widely established and universal fact of life.  We can all see the sky is not purple.

What's going on here, to try and salvage this strained analogy, is that I am being told the sky is not purple...only I'm not allowed to have a look and see.

Just trust him.  It ain't purple.  And if I can't accept things on those terms, I'm being unreasonable.

[TheBaconman]

Hawkings was a great deadline pick up for the Jays!

Let's go Jays!

Man is older than dirt and still getting people out.

Think I could convince Mo to come out of retirement?

I honestly thought I had a chance to make the jays roster at the start of the year.   Now not so much.  

I could still be a first base coach.    I would be at that

I think I could make Oaklands starting roster.  But I would turn down there offer

I think Axl would be a Jays fan!    He gets it

He would probably write a song about the Jays

Would be something like this

Let's go Jays!   Let's do it baby!

[D-GenerationX]

People (and I'm pointing no fingers) bitch about a lack of contact with management.

When we finally DO get some contact (however brief it might ultimately be), people bitch because we have contact....but they can't really say too much.

You really can't have it all.  That's not the way this industry....and heck, not the way MOST industries...work.

I never said word one about anything he has said.  But if you are going to puff out your chest, at that point, its time for a conversation.

A lot of our fanbase gives them a hard time.  I'm not one of them, however.

[pilferk]

The sky is purple.

No it's not

Prove it.

I'm not really in a position to do that, right this second, but....I can tell you, for sure, the sky is not purple.

Sometimes factually correcting someone's mistake/inaccuracy is enough of a reason to weigh in, without the need to provide further specificity.  That, to me, is pretty much what he's done.

Kind of a reach here as color is a widely established and universal fact of life.  We can all see the sky is not purple.

What's going on here, to try and salvage this strained analogy, is that I am being told the sky is not purple...only I'm not allowed to have a look and see.

Just trust him.  It ain't purple.  And if I can't accept things on those terms, I'm being unreasonable.

Sure, but the guy who's telling you is an expert on the subject.

And the reason you can't see is because...you literally CAN'T see.

So to expound he would basically have to relay a lifetime of experience, knowledge, and an ability TO see....in order to explain.

I'm not trying to make you out to be an unintelligent heathen, here.  But the fact is....he's in a much better position to not only know this stuff, but to understand it.  Because he's lived it.  And surely you can see why this might not be the place to conduct a master class in Band Management.

I have this happen to me, at work, constantly.  I work amongst clinical folks with very little tech savy/understanding.  I often have to tell them their conception is wrong, or that they're doing something wrong, or that what they're asking for...as simple as it seems in their brain...is technologically much more difficult or impossible.

And, mostly, I ask them to trust me....because that's my line of expertise.  And elaborating is a) going to take far more time than they want to spend 2) likely be far more technical that they will have an ability to understand without, essentially, a corporate decision support master class and 3) going to take away time I really need to be focusing forward on productive solutions (like theirs).

And I'm sure many of them feel the same way you do about this.  But, at the end of the day, I have 20 years of experience in the field.  They don't. I'm nationally published and recognized in my field (Not to boast).  Who would you find more compelling, regardless of whether I took the time to spend 2 or 3 hours crafting a detailed explanation?

[damnthehaters]

Not for nothing DX, but....Fernando's gravitas and experience in the specifics that we're armchair-ing about sort of lends weight to his words that another, random, forum denizen isn't going to have.

I agree.

But if you are going to make the decision to say nothing publicly that support your claims, why chime in?

Wouldn't it make more sense to sit around with others also in the inner circle and call up some of the posts they feel are offbase and just have a laugh with each other about it?

The rest of that inner circle has the context that supports why its so offbase.  None of us do.

Maybe he chimes in to let it be known that you just don't always know what your talking about.    

[pilferk]

People (and I'm pointing no fingers) bitch about a lack of contact with management.

When we finally DO get some contact (however brief it might ultimately be), people bitch because we have contact....but they can't really say too much.

You really can't have it all.  That's not the way this industry....and heck, not the way MOST industries...work.

I never said word one about anything he has said.  But if you are going to puff out your chest, at that point, its time for a conversation.

A lot of our fanbase gives them a hard time.  I'm not one of them, however.

Note bolded part, above, in original quote.

[D-GenerationX]

People (and I'm pointing no fingers) bitch about a lack of contact with management.

When we finally DO get some contact (however brief it might ultimately be), people bitch because we have contact....but they can't really say too much.

You really can't have it all.  That's not the way this industry....and heck, not the way MOST industries...work.

I never said word one about anything he has said.  But if you are going to puff out your chest, at that point, its time for a conversation.

A lot of our fanbase gives them a hard time.  I'm not one of them, however.

Note bolded part, above, in original quote.

Dude...please.

[D-GenerationX]

Maybe he chimes in to let it be known that you just don't always know what your talking about.    

So he shakes his head disapprovingly at me, and I shrug my shoulders at him.

Getting way back to the very first point that started all this : what are we accomplishing here?

[pilferk]

Maybe he chimes in to let it be known that you just don't always know what your talking about.    

So he shakes his head disapprovingly at me, and I shrug my shoulders at him.

Getting way back to the very first point that started all this : what are we accomplishing here?

For you? Maybe nothing.

For those following along? Context.

[pilferk]

People (and I'm pointing no fingers) bitch about a lack of contact with management.

When we finally DO get some contact (however brief it might ultimately be), people bitch because we have contact....but they can't really say too much.

You really can't have it all.  That's not the way this industry....and heck, not the way MOST industries...work.

I never said word one about anything he has said.  But if you are going to puff out your chest, at that point, its time for a conversation.

A lot of our fanbase gives them a hard time.  I'm not one of them, however.

Note bolded part, above, in original quote.

Dude...please.

Nope, sorry....I wrote it cause I meant it.

I  VERY SPECIFICALLY added that part to make it obvious I wasn't singling you out in that bit.

And those two groups of folks don't HAVE to be the same population to put Management in a lose-lose situation.

[D-GenerationX]

Maybe he chimes in to let it be known that you just don't always know what your talking about.    

So he shakes his head disapprovingly at me, and I shrug my shoulders at him.

Getting way back to the very first point that started all this : what are we accomplishing here?

For you? Maybe nothing.

For those following along? Context.

Perhaps I just have a higher bar.  It happens.

I'll probably start to see things in a different light when someone other than the usual brigade of people that think I need to shut the fuck up (no matter what I'm saying) support the premise this was a meaningful exchange, these past few pages.

I'm certainly open to that outcome.

[damnthehaters]

Maybe he chimes in to let it be known that you just don't always know what your talking about.    

So he shakes his head disapprovingly at me, and I shrug my shoulders at him.

Getting way back to the very first point that started all this : what are we accomplishing here?

For you? Maybe nothing.

For those following along? Context.

Exactly!  To DX, he will just continue to go on claiming things like their fact

[pilferk]

Perhaps I just have a higher bar.  It happens.

I'll probably start to see things in a different light when someone other than the usual brigade of people that think I need to shut the fuck up (no matter what I'm saying) support the premise this was a meaningful exchange, these past few pages.

I'm certainly open to that outcome.

You can have the highest bar you want to have. You can set it impossibly/unattainably high, if you want (and I'm not saying you are, here).  But then..you're also the one who's having their assumptions corrected by the expert...so it could be less about bars, and more about ego.  Just sayin'

For the record, I don't think (and haven't ever thought) you should shut the fuck up.

I find the use of the "repeat" button...and not just for you, but for many, many, many topics around here....to be tiresome.  It's why I lurk, and post a lot less in the main topic forum than I used to.

But this? This sorta hit home.  Because we all play armchair QB here, in regards to GnR, a LOT.  There is a LOT of "what if" that we play (me included).  

So when someone who actually is in a position to know comes in, and says "That's incorrect".....I think that's where the armchair ends...when you're talking to Peyton Manning (or, hell, even Eli).

That's not to say they can't make a mistakes....they can.  But I'm going to lend a lot more credence to them than my own (or any other armchair QBs) musings...even if they don't want to elaborate.

[D-GenerationX]

Exactly!  To DX, he will just continue to go on claiming things like their fact

I never claim anything as fact.  That's your strawman.  Well, not just you, but anyone that trots that out there.

I talk about how things look based on what I can see.  From what I can glean by what is available to me.

My detractors seem to be united by the idea that if I can't say anything nice, I shouldn't say anything at all.  Which would be great...if we were all 8 years old.

[jarmo]

But if you are going to make the decision to say nothing publicly that support your claims, why chime in?

Wouldn't it make more sense to sit around with others also in the inner circle and call up some of the posts they feel are offbase and just have a laugh with each other about it?

The rest of that inner circle has the context that supports why its so offbase.  None of us do.

Here's the context for you, he's actually in the business and works with the artist you're a fan of.

Obviously he will know things you won't have a clue about. Why not just make peace with this fact? It's not that weird of a concept.
Everybody can't know everything about everything.

You're not as right as you want to be about GN'R. Sorry.
That's life.




/jarmo

[pilferk]

I never claim anything as fact.  That's your strawman.  Well, not just you, but anyone that trots that out there.

I talk about how things look based on what I can see.  From what I can glean by what is available to me.

My detractors seem to be united by the idea that if I can't say anything nice, I shouldn't say anything at all.  Which would be great...if we were all 8 years old.

Not all of them.

But there is an alternate, equally valid, POV. And you are just as dismissive of IT, many times.  So........

And...you say it right there.  You're not claiming they're "facts".  They're interpretations based on your perceptions.

Given that....isn't is viable for someone who DOES have the facts to alert you to misconceptions/misinterpretations/false assumptions?

[D-GenerationX]

For the record, I don't think (and haven't ever thought) you should shut the fuck up.

That may have been too strong a term.  Because you are right, you don't treat me like that.  Some do, but I would not put you in their number.

Perhaps a better way to put it would "...the usual brigade of people who lament that I can't just fall in line."  Just about any disagreement I have can be traced back to that disconnect.  

I often come away from a day of posting here thinking a silent nod is the only acceptable response, according to some.  I think a lot of my "whining" is simply a case of "wait...does that sound a little off to anyone else?"

Which I consider innocuous.  But I tend to get pushback that suggest that even daring to ask that question is totally inappropriate.