ARTICLE: My thoughts on the future of Guns N' Roses

[Bodhi]

It is interesting the way fans like us still look at music in terms of "albums" and "b-sides", but couldn't it be said that all songs released today are just songs?  The grouping together of songs is irrelevant now with the way digital music services have taken over.  When I grew up and had only "Use Your Illusion 2" in my walkman then I was  forced to listen to only those songs in a specific order.  Today if someone doesn't want to listen to "Shotgun Blues" for example,  they don't even need to skip over it, they just don't even put it on their playlist.  So "albums" as we knew them really don't exist anymore.  An "album" is pretty much just a folder name with a date for the fans reference when they are looking up songs.  How many fans today just look up the song titles and don't even read what "album" it was originally on.  Pretty crazy.

[mortismurphy]

You're saying you want the albums the way they are but you'd like certain songs as B-sides. I other words, you want to eat the cake and have it too.
I guess this makes sense to you. 

You obviously have difficulties with comprehension. I said that if I was Mike Clink sitting in a producers chair in 1991 I would have tried to persuade the band to put Get in the Ring and Bad Apples out as a b-side. Since I'm neither Mike Clink nor am I in the year 1991, I hardly think that applies to my own feelings today with the albums as they are now, nearly twenty-five years old. As I said, we are dealing with hypothetical post-dated scenarios here, hindsight. 

Anyway, glad we managed to sort out the fact that no album is perfect to you. Maybe the next one will be?!! 

I can think of quite a few albums which are 'perfect'. Hendrix's three Experience albums are perfect. Sticky Fingers is perfect.

[jarmo]

IF things were all rainbows and fluffy clouds, maybe you wouldn't have to come here and whine. IF.

Whatever you think of other bands' albums is irrelevant.

Now, IF you understood who this site as for, then that would truly be something special....



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

I knew before you played your hand that you had an ulterior rhetorical motive for pursuing this discussion. I theorised that it was not just a polite largely inconsequential discussion on the old GN'R albums and their various good points and shortcomings. I had not quite worked out the direction you were heading but I certainly knew the toddler politics would reveal themselves eventually.

[rebelhipi]

It is interesting the way fans like us still look at music in terms of "albums" and "b-sides", but couldn't it be said that all songs released today are just songs?  The grouping together of songs is irrelevant now with the way digital music services have taken over.  When I grew up and had only "Use Your Illusion 2" in my walkman then I was  forced to listen to only those songs in a specific order.  Today if someone doesn't want to listen to "Shotgun Blues" for example,  they don't even need to skip over it, they just don't even put it on their playlist.  So "albums" as we knew them really don't exist anymore.  An "album" is pretty much just a folder name with a date for the fans reference when they are looking up songs.  How many fans today just look up the song titles and don't even read what "album" it was originally on.  Pretty crazy.

Albums are still around, its just easier to get around them with spotify playlists, youtube ect.
I still listen to albums start to finish. never using streaming sites.

It depends on how you want your music.

[The Wight Gunner]

It is interesting the way fans like us still look at music in terms of "albums" and "b-sides", but couldn't it be said that all songs released today are just songs?  The grouping together of songs is irrelevant now with the way digital music services have taken over.  When I grew up and had only "Use Your Illusion 2" in my walkman then I was  forced to listen to only those songs in a specific order.  Today if someone doesn't want to listen to "Shotgun Blues" for example,  they don't even need to skip over it, they just don't even put it on their playlist.  So "albums" as we knew them really don't exist anymore.  An "album" is pretty much just a folder name with a date for the fans reference when they are looking up songs.  How many fans today just look up the song titles and don't even read what "album" it was originally on.  Pretty crazy.

Albums are still around, its just easier to get around them with spotify playlists, youtube ect.
I still listen to albums start to finish. never using streaming sites.

It depends on how you want your music.

Which goes to prove that albums sales are no barometer to how well received the thing truly is.  There are plenty of listened to albums that have not seen my money, yet I've loved 'em.  I just have no need in owning a copy. The accepted range of +/- 3-5 million CD sales reflect a healthy interest, there is little proof of how many listened to taker there have been, at a guess, I'd say a ratio of 3 or 4 to one listens v purchases feels about right 

[Bodhi]

It is interesting the way fans like us still look at music in terms of "albums" and "b-sides", but couldn't it be said that all songs released today are just songs?  The grouping together of songs is irrelevant now with the way digital music services have taken over.  When I grew up and had only "Use Your Illusion 2" in my walkman then I was  forced to listen to only those songs in a specific order.  Today if someone doesn't want to listen to "Shotgun Blues" for example,  they don't even need to skip over it, they just don't even put it on their playlist.  So "albums" as we knew them really don't exist anymore.  An "album" is pretty much just a folder name with a date for the fans reference when they are looking up songs.  How many fans today just look up the song titles and don't even read what "album" it was originally on.  Pretty crazy.

Albums are still around, its just easier to get around them with spotify playlists, youtube ect.
I still listen to albums start to finish. never using streaming sites.

It depends on how you want your music.

Of course you can still do it that way, but technology has made it where that is not the only way.  The main change is you used to have to buy the album to get a certain song, now most people (myself included) bypass that option and just hunt the songs down that they want.  The idea of an album is just that, it's an idea, it's not really a real thing anymore if you think about it.  Everything is just out there and can be streamed a thousand different ways.  It's only an album of you choose to listen to it that way.

I only mentioned this because someone mentioned how the Illusions could have been a perfect album if it was one album, but they no longer need to be listened to or even purchased as two albums anymore.  It's just a collection of 30 songs that happened to come out in the same day.  Kids and new fans today don't care about sequencing or anything like that.  If they want Civil War to come after November Rain ion their  iPhone that is what is going to happen.  They aren't going to care that the picture on their phone changed from red and yellow to blue and purple.

I know bands that put out Bsides on spotify and iTunes all the time, they aren't really considered Bsides, they are just the latest song by that band.

[Bodhi]

It is interesting the way fans like us still look at music in terms of "albums" and "b-sides", but couldn't it be said that all songs released today are just songs?  The grouping together of songs is irrelevant now with the way digital music services have taken over.  When I grew up and had only "Use Your Illusion 2" in my walkman then I was  forced to listen to only those songs in a specific order.  Today if someone doesn't want to listen to "Shotgun Blues" for example,  they don't even need to skip over it, they just don't even put it on their playlist.  So "albums" as we knew them really don't exist anymore.  An "album" is pretty much just a folder name with a date for the fans reference when they are looking up songs.  How many fans today just look up the song titles and don't even read what "album" it was originally on.  Pretty crazy.

Albums are still around, its just easier to get around them with spotify playlists, youtube ect.
I still listen to albums start to finish. never using streaming sites.

It depends on how you want your music.

Which goes to prove that albums sales are no barometer to how well received the thing truly is.  There are plenty of listened to albums that have not seen my money, yet I've loved 'em.  I just have no need in owning a copy. The accepted range of +/- 3-5 million CD sales reflect a healthy interest, there is little proof of how many listened to taker there have been, at a guess, I'd say a ratio of 3 or 4 to one listens v purchases feels about right 

Chinese Democracy is a perfect example of this.  Album streams didn't count towards sales back in 2008 like they do now.  The record probably would have topped he chart with all those MySpace streams it had.

[jarmo]

I knew before you played your hand that you had an ulterior rhetorical motive for pursuing this discussion. I theorised that it was not just a polite largely inconsequential discussion on the old GN'R albums and their various good points and shortcomings. I had not quite worked out the direction you were heading but I certainly knew the toddler politics would reveal themselves eventually.

There was no motive. I don't feel like spending that much energy on you, thinking and planning ahead. Waste of time in my opinion.

You're like a bad clown. Somewhat amusing, but forgettable. 

But it's ironic that you don't consider any GN'R album "perfect". Yet more proof about what you lack compared to many others who post here. Not saying people need to think every GN'R album is perfect, but for most people GN'R is special, or they wouldn't come to a fan site to begin with.
 

Chinese Democracy is a perfect example of this.  Album streams didn't count towards sales back in 2008 like they do now.  The record probably would have topped he chart with all those MySpace streams it had.

Correct. Streams didn't count, and yet we have "fans" labeling it a failure and claiming it was on sale for $1.99 the week after its release....




/jarmo

[GnR-NOW]

I knew before you played your hand that you had an ulterior rhetorical motive for pursuing this discussion. I theorised that it was not just a polite largely inconsequential discussion on the old GN'R albums and their various good points and shortcomings. I had not quite worked out the direction you were heading but I certainly knew the toddler politics would reveal themselves eventually.

There was no motive. I don't feel like spending that much energy on you, thinking and planning ahead. Waste of time in my opinion.

You're like a bad clown. Somewhat amusing, but forgettable. 

But it's ironic that you don't consider any GN'R album "perfect". Yet more proof about what you lack compared to many others who post here. Not saying people need to think every GN'R album is perfect, but for most people GN'R is special, or they wouldn't come to a fan site to begin with.
 

Chinese Democracy is a perfect example of this.  Album streams didn't count towards sales back in 2008 like they do now.  The record probably would have topped he chart with all those MySpace streams it had.

Correct. Streams didn't count, and yet we have "fans" labeling it a failure and claiming it was on sale for $1.99 the week after its release....




/jarmo

Plus a lot of new releases do a massive price drop promotion after their initial release

[brazil66]

I hope We see New music. Gnr have always toured th?ir New music before the album comes out. I agr?e w?th regards to album sequencing as mentioned above but there are a good number of fans that like an album in hand...me included. It will be interesting to see If or how gnr will release th?ir music and what format. I did not agr?e w?th everything Bumblefoot said However i do like the idea of releasing for example six singles over say 6 touring cycles over a period of 18-24 months. The album could be released towards the end of the tour. Take a 6 month break and repeat again w?th the next gnr album. I can always remember Axl saying that h? wanted to release three albums and tour for a real long Time. Maybe the last tour of the final album could be the last and Then just do residencies...ie Vegas..the joint..and use that format for touring the world....r?sidence in san Paulo, Vegas, London, Mexico city, New york, Sydney, Tokyo. Mumbai, Moscow...and play venues holding 3-5000. People. Some could be done as 9-12 dates like Vegas or just 3-6 dates...

Th?se are my possible thoughts of gnr in the future, bottom Line i just Want to the band and Axl happy. All have work ?d. So hard in getting chinese out and tourins many venues and countries. It is hard work..but i hope everything happens organically and everyone lives are good and healthy...

[mortismurphy]

I knew before you played your hand that you had an ulterior rhetorical motive for pursuing this discussion. I theorised that it was not just a polite largely inconsequential discussion on the old GN'R albums and their various good points and shortcomings. I had not quite worked out the direction you were heading but I certainly knew the toddler politics would reveal themselves eventually.

There was no motive. I don't feel like spending that much energy on you, thinking and planning ahead. Waste of time in my opinion.

You're like a bad clown. Somewhat amusing, but forgettable. 

Yes there was. Everyone else here was merely discussing the original GN'R discography. Even with the person called Damnthehaters, who disagrees me on most things and I am quite sure would like to see the back of me, we had a fair exchange of views on Democracy. Under normal circumstances, if I did not feel you possessed the mind of a toddler, I would have assumed you were merely inquiring about my opinions on that subject and wanted a discussion on the respective merits of Appetite, Illusion and CD. But,

Yet it's ironic that a person who's so concerned about, and whose opinion is so invested in, the amount of music released, would rather have less music than what we got.

If you had 15 songs less released, imagine how annoyed you'd be now!

A rhetorical ulterior motive.

Ironically I do not think you are actually that interested in 'Guns N' Roses conversations' on here. You have no interest in them whatsoever. I never see you discussing Appetite or Illusion - or even CD that much - as separate from an argument (which you have usually instigated). Everything you post basically falls into two categories.

A/ It is either uninteresting advertising (''whoop I doo da, jee whiz, there is a new Crue v GNR poll on Blabbermouth'') or

B/ Ultra defensive replies to perceived slights against Axl/Nugnr.

I have never once seen you post something which does not fall into these two categories!

But it's ironic that you don't consider any GN'R album "perfect".

Bit unfair really as Appetite would make my top ten list of my own personal favourite rock albums. It would probably make my numero uno in fact if you further restricted that list to the genre of ''hard rock''.

Yet more proof about what you lack compared to many others who post here.

I was not aware that there was some criteria of human achievement one would need to fulfill in order to post here. What an odd philosophy? I cannot even get my head around that comment and all those other odd comments you make about requiring 'positivity', and needing to see some evidence of 'positive' thinking. The fact you cannot mention the fact that GN'R undersold by 10% in one given venue in one given country says it all really.

Not saying people need to think every GN'R album is perfect, but for most people GN'R is special, or they wouldn't come to a fan site to begin with.

I would say GN'R were very special but I see no reason to state why since I am clearly dealing with a two year old.

[D-GenerationX]

Ironically I do not think you are actually that interested in 'Guns N' Roses conversations' on here. You have no interest in them whatsoever. I never see you discussing Appetite or Illusion - or even CD that much - as separate from an argument (which you have usually instigated).

He only even talks to a handful of us, really.  All the people he allegedly cannot stand.

You are the man, in that regard, by the way.  This?  What you have been going through, you and him?  That used to be my deal.  I was the you before you.

But, you know the drill.  A newer, cuter model comes along...and the eyes wander.

[troccoli]

Before I even get started I would like to make the disclaimer that Jarmo and I have disagreed in the past on various things so understand that I am not blowing smoke here.  Not my style.  Without further adieu:

I see nothing wrong with Jarmo mentioning those two acoustic club shows in 2010 here in the US.  Not only did they happen, but he's just doing the same thing others here did already.  They nitpicked at some facts from the article so he nitpicked back.  Fair is fair after all.

As for GNR playing stadiums in other countries vs. here in the US: for whatever reason (and I'm not convinced anyone really knows for sure) hard rock and heavy metal are much more popular in other countries.  The popularity of that type of music seems to wax and wane here in the US, but it never seems to get old in the rest of the world.  Secondly, I think it is unfair to compare Motely and GNR here.  The version of Motley currently touring has all the "popular" (whatever term you want to use) members.  I am not slagging the current line-up of Guns.  I think they are super talented, the shows have been great, they are all really nice, etc.  But are you really telling me that if Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven (or even the UYI lineup for that matter) toured the US they wouldn't be able to sell out stadiums/arenas?  Please. 

On another topic, I think it's hard to judge whether a venue is sold-out or not by appearance alone.  With some of the "recent" tragedies (fires, trampling, etc.) in this country involving oversold venues, many venues are not allowed to sell to full capacity anymore.  As for stadiums/arenas, sometimes they appear that they weren't sold out.  For example some places don't sell seats behind the stage.  I think you would have to know how many tickets were allotted and how many were sold to determine sell-out status.  Am I saying this is what happened with GNR?  I have no idea, but it's certainly a possibility.  As a fan of GNR I want them to sell-out because I think it makes them happy and it makes them (and the crew) money, which they need for their families and all that.  As for smaller venues I am all for that. 

As for Vegas, I wish (as a fan; I'm sure the band wouldn't be a fan of this) they were handing out tickets on the street for GNR!

[mortismurphy]

The empty aisles in front and touts offloading tickets for 1/3 the price are probably good indicators that a venue has not sold out, combined with a more than passing acquaintance of that arena when it is at full capacity. I actually got offered free tickets by somebody who was working at the venue; unfortunately this was after I had purchased the tickets!

Ironically I do not think you are actually that interested in 'Guns N' Roses conversations' on here. You have no interest in them whatsoever. I never see you discussing Appetite or Illusion - or even CD that much - as separate from an argument (which you have usually instigated).

He only even talks to a handful of us, really.  All the people he allegedly cannot stand.

You are the man, in that regard, by the way.  This?  What you have been going through, you and him?  That used to be my deal.  I was the you before you.

But, you know the drill.  A newer, cuter model comes along...and the eyes wander.

Oh, stop with the jealousy. You make me blush. He still ultimately has eyes only for you. I'm merely the 'Acca Dacca $1.99' man.

[jarmo]

A rhetorical ulterior motive.

I asked a question, and expected an answer. If that's an ulterior motive, then we're all guilty of it.
Ironically there was nothing surprising about your answers.

Ironically I do not think you are actually that interested in 'Guns N' Roses conversations' on here. You have no interest in them whatsoever. I never see you discussing Appetite or Illusion - or even CD that much - as separate from an argument (which you have usually instigated). Everything you post basically falls into two categories.

Maybe it says more about you than me...
In other words, you really have no clue.

Bit unfair really as Appetite would make my top ten list of my own personal favourite rock albums. It would probably make my numero uno in fact if you further restricted that list to the genre of ''hard rock''.

Cool, so maybe you can go and hang out in Dead Horse and talk about how great that album is?

I was not aware that there was some criteria of human achievement one would need to fulfill in order to post here. What an odd philosophy? I cannot even get my head around that comment and all those other odd comments you make about requiring 'positivity', and needing to see some evidence of 'positive' thinking. The fact you cannot mention the fact that GN'R undersold by 10% in one given venue in one given country says it all really.

Of course you can't understand the simple concept that I've explained to you multiple times that a fan site is aimed at fans. Not people who love Appetite.

Maybe I was at the show you keep posting your facts about. But looking back, three years ago, it's not exactly the first thing that comes to my mind! You on the other hand....

He only even talks to a handful of us, really.  All the people he allegedly cannot stand.

You're still talking about me but you're not interested in discussions. I mean, you get upset when things aren't serious enough and then the next minute you tell us all how this isn't serious, it's only a rock band.

You're quite selective aren't you. One minute you want a serious discussion but only on your terms and as long as you can be right. When that changes, you start telling us how you're not interested in it anymore and you run away.

As for GNR playing stadiums in other countries vs. here in the US: for whatever reason (and I'm not convinced anyone really knows for sure) hard rock and heavy metal are much more popular in other countries.  The popularity of that type of music seems to wax and wane here in the US, but it never seems to get old in the rest of the world.   

Telling this to certain people only gets you the "but GN'R played clubs" response.
Yes they did, weeks after finishing the arena tour that probably just visited the same cities.

On another topic, I think it's hard to judge whether a venue is sold-out or not by appearance alone.  With some of the "recent" tragedies (fires, trampling, etc.) in this country involving oversold venues, many venues are not allowed to sell to full capacity anymore.  As for stadiums/arenas, sometimes they appear that they weren't sold out.  For example some places don't sell seats behind the stage.  I think you would have to know how many tickets were allotted and how many were sold to determine sell-out status.  Am I saying this is what happened with GNR?  I have no idea, but it's certainly a possibility.  As a fan of GNR I want them to sell-out because I think it makes them happy and it makes them (and the crew) money, which they need for their families and all that.  As for smaller venues I am all for that. 

It's not really an issue of how many tickets were sold. The comment arose from the fact that a certain poster just had to nitpick on the fact that the original article said that GN'R always sells good when they tour in the UK. He used the phrase sell out. The poster couldn't take it and had to chime in that "nooo, the show I went to wasn't sold out!".





/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

I think we have all exhausted the use of superlatives aimed at Appetite Jarmo. But how is loving Appetite above everything else, exclusive from being a 'fan'? That is a new one! 'Because my favourite GN'R album is Appetite, I am not considered a 'fan'!' Never heard that one before! (I think GN'R''s fanbase has just taken a 90% reduction!).

[sky dog]

Mortis, agree with you....Hendrix's 3 studio albums a pretty damn close to perfect. However, I would take out Noel Redding's songs...Little Miss Strange and She's So Fine....Sticky is 100% perfect.

[jarmo]

I think we have all exhausted the use of superlatives aimed at Appetite Jarmo. But how is loving Appetite above everything else, exclusive from being a 'fan'? That is a new one! 'Because my favourite GN'R album is Appetite, I am not considered a 'fan'!' Never heard that one before! (I think GN'R''s fanbase has just taken a 90% reduction!).

Nice spin there!

There's a lot of casual rock fans, who necessarily wouldn't call themselves GN'R fans, who love that album.
They even go to the shows and don't post about them not being sold out!  




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

Mortis, agree with you....Hendrix's 3 studio albums a pretty damn close to perfect. However, I would take out Noel Redding's songs...Little Miss Strange and She's So Fine....Sticky is 100% perfect.

I like She's So Fine. Little Miss Strange is a bit average maybe but it is pleasurable enough. Noel has the English rock sound which is very different from where Hendrix's sound comes from. The idea was for Mitch to get a song also. Jimi wanted their contributions. He wanted the Experience to be thought of as a proper a band and not merely a solo vehicle.

I actually really like the psychedelic bizarre bits on those albums like EXP.

I think we have all exhausted the use of superlatives aimed at Appetite Jarmo. But how is loving Appetite above everything else, exclusive from being a 'fan'? That is a new one! 'Because my favourite GN'R album is Appetite, I am not considered a 'fan'!' Never heard that one before! (I think GN'R''s fanbase has just taken a 90% reduction!).

Nice spin there!

There's a lot of casual rock fans, who necessarily wouldn't call themselves GN'R fans, who love that album.
They even go to the shows and don't post about them not being sold out!  

Still do not get how I'm not supposed to be a 'fan' because my favourite album is Appetite? This requires some explanation!