ARTICLE: My thoughts on the future of Guns N' Roses

[damnthehaters]

If you doubt the truthfulness of my observation, then ask yourself why I selected an approx figure of 80-90%? If I wanted to lie and skewer the figures because of alleged bias I would have probably said 60-70% or just said something like, ''the arena was only half full''.

Be careful using phrases such as "half full". Somebody might think you've lost your honest objectivity!

'Would'. Subjunctive mood Jarmo.

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

The original line up of GN'R was together for approximately two months. 1977-1995 is a period encompassing eighteen years. I'm not an expert on American sports but was that period really completely absent of any kind of success or attainment? Was there not players who played in 1994 who were also playing in 1996?.

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

Mort, I found you!  Still waiting for your answer?

I cannot remember the question. Was it the usual ''why are you here? Go away'' HTGTH shtick?

Yeah, just curious on why your here if you don't like the way GNR does things?  Honest question

An album announcement would instantly change that. My main criticism of the band is their lack of new material. I do not have much hope left now but you never know - Axl might decide to release the Chinese leftovers?   

Did you enjoy Chinese?  If not, you may be disappointed. 

[jarmo]

And this is a big game changer, this big revelation?  My omission of some surprise acoustic gig fundamentally changes the argument being made?

No.  It does not.

It just proves your old "facts don't matter to me because I know better" routine.

We disagree.

A major American city, and you can't find 3,000 to show up to see one of the biggest names in rock.

Oh, but don't worry...this is no sort of barometer of how they might do filling arenas all over the country.

That makes zero sense.

Is this Philadelphia by any chance?
I mean, if it is. Then that city really must be the barometer on which all things are measured.

What? Riots aren't a common occurrence in other cities? But it happened in Philadelphia...

You use "jokes" in place of making an actual point.  Your "jokes" aren't a complement to a legit point, its a outright substitution for even making a legit point.

You're a non-serious person often incapable of having a serious discussion.  That's not my problem, and I've sort of lost interest trying to hold you hand through it either.  

I'll stick to some of these other folks that seem to be able get their shit together on their own.  Better use of my time.

The jokes are jokes. Not part of some bigger picture. If you start making some comments about my head being stuck in sand, you just set it up nicely for me to respond. Logic.


Yeah, you go ahead. Play with the kids who don't actually try to make you think for once.
Who let's you disregard facts and forget that you don't have answers to uncomfortable questions such as "why book a tour weeks after finishing the previous one in the same markets if there's so little demand?".

I'm all about serious discussions. I don't run away crying because I need to be right all the time.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

And this is a big game changer, this big revelation?  My omission of some surprise acoustic gig fundamentally changes the argument being made?

No.  It does not.

It just proves your old "facts don't matter to me because I know better" routine.

We disagree.

A major American city, and you can't find 3,000 to show up to see one of the biggest names in rock.

Oh, but don't worry...this is no sort of barometer of how they might do filling arenas all over the country.

That makes zero sense.

Is this Philadelphia by any chance?
I mean, if it is. Then that city really must be the barometer on which all things are measured.

What? Riots aren't a common occurrence in other cities? But it happened in Philadelphia...

You use "jokes" in place of making an actual point.  Your "jokes" aren't a complement to a legit point, its a outright substitution for even making a legit point.

You're a non-serious person often incapable of having a serious discussion.  That's not my problem, and I've sort of lost interest trying to hold you hand through it either.  

I'll stick to some of these other folks that seem to be able get their shit together on their own.  Better use of my time.

The jokes are jokes. Not part of some bigger picture. If you start making some comments about my head being stuck in sand, you just set it up nicely for me to respond. Logic.


Yeah, you go ahead. Play with the kids who don't actually try to make you think for once.
Who let's you disregard facts and forget that you don't have answers to uncomfortable questions such as "why book a tour weeks after finishing the previous one in the same markets if there's so little demand?".

I'm all about serious discussions. I don't run away crying because I need to be right all the time.



/jarmo

Last word.

[jarmo]

You really are the serious discussion participant of the month. Congrats.

Did you enjoy Chinese?  If not, you may be disappointed. 

What does it say about a person when an album is that important to them? They can't seem to enjoy a band without it....
Maybe one of our experts can weigh in....




/jarmo

[damnthehaters]

Yeah, just curious on why your here if you don't like the way GNR does things?  Honest question

He's here because he's a fan of the band.  We're all here because we are fans of the band's music.

It's our fault the operational side is run pretty shabbily?  Not really.  I suppose it could be argued its our fault we point it out sometimes when others wish we'd just look at our shoes and never utter a critical word.  But do you really need to be protected from such things?  Is it our saying it that makes it real for you?

Let me ask you this question.  Do you think fans of other rock bands on par with GNR spend near this much time taking about their management?  I doubt that, highly.

Band managers are like refs in sports.  The only time they get brought up is when then mess up, and the best compliment you can pay them is when you say you never have to mention them at all.  Because they just do their job and do it well.

You can point it out all you want, but it is what it is.  GNR has lost fans over the years because of things they have done or how they have handled things.  But I don't worry about it.  Would I like more music, of course.  But what is coming on here and bringing up what I believe to be the bands flaws (on a daily basis) really gonna do about it?  I've made comments on here in the past that aren't in support of GNR, but then I move on.  And that's the point.  I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't say anything negative or something that doesn't support the band.  What they are saying, is why does it have to be repeated over and over and over.  Because it gets to a point where if you bitch that much....then why are you here?  

I really don't know what fans of other rock bands do nor do I care.

[D-GenerationX]

You really are the serious discussion participant of the month. Congrats.

I posted all sorts of serious discussion points.  You responded with a bunch on nonsense, twice in a row.  I'm bored with it.  After 3 years, I'm just bored with it.

That led me to believe we were now simply engaged in a battle to see who could get the last word.  Guess this post puts me back in the lead on that front. 

It will also be my exit from this pointless exercise.  Do what you want.

[D-GenerationX]

You can point it out all you want, but it is what it is.  GNR has lost fans over the years because of things they have done or how they have handled things.  But I don't worry about it.  Would I like more music, of course.  But what is coming on here and bringing up what I believe to be the bands flaws (on a daily basis) really gonna do about it?  I've made comments on here in the past that aren't in support of GNR, but then I move on.  And that's the point.  I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't say anything negative or something that doesn't support the band.  What they are saying, is why does it have to be repeated over and over and over.  Because it gets to a point where if you bitch that much....then why are you here?  

I really don't know what fans of other rock bands do nor do I care.

Conversations evolve.  Points are made, counterpoints are made, topics shift.

Are you arguing that if something comes up, the topic shifts a bit, but then gets back to the original point...we should just stop talking to one another?

If someone comes into a thread 7 pages in, should they just get a bunch of posts from people telling them that their response can be found back on page 2?

[jarmo]

I posted all sorts of serious discussion points.  You responded with a bunch on nonsense, twice in a row.  I'm bored with it.  After 3 years, I'm just bored with it.

Which part was nonsense? All the parts with facts you want to disregard and the questions you don't want to answer?

It's fine to admit that you don't want to answer questions. Or say "I don't know". It's completely normal.
You seem to not be able to do this so you try to insult me by saying I post nonsense. Or you just ignore it and act like nothing.

This is your tactic to always being right.

I admit, I made one silly joke after you set me up for an open goal. Couldn't resist. I assumed a big man like yourself would have some kind of thick skin. But we can't always be right!

By the way, aren't you one of the guys who kept making comments about how it's not serious, it's only a rock band?


/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

I thought it was overall good but a bit of a mixed bag. There are masterpieces on there (TWAT, Better) and turds on there (Scraped, If the World, This I Love). Most of the songs fall between the two extremes . TWAT, Better, IRS, The Blues and Madagascar are my favourites. I also would add Oh My God to that list of Grade A material.

[jarmo]

Does that differ from the old albums?




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I thought it was overall good but a bit of a mixed bag. There are masterpieces on there (TWAT, Better) and turds on there (Scraped, If the World, This I Love). Most of the songs fall between the two extremes . TWAT, Better, IRS, The Blues and Madagascar are my favourites. I also would add Oh My God to that list of Grade A material.

When people ask me, I say the same 3 things :

- Its good, not great
- There are a few standout tracks that stand up with anything the real band ever did
- If you choose to give it a spin, prepare yourself that it sounds very little like the GNR you know

I would put 'There Was A Time' in an alltime top 10 list.  I think songs like 'IRS' and 'Street Of Dreams' aren't all that much different than band most people know.

I think the most interesting song is absolutely 'Prostitute'.  I love the song, think its very well done.  But I don't think it sounds a thing like Guns N' Roses.  So you are sort of put in a weird spot where you know its one of the strongest tracks on the album, but you am unlikely to recommend it because you can already see faces being made and people just finding it too different.

[D-GenerationX]

Does that differ from the old albums?

The overall tone and sound absolutely are.

For instance, I never gave anyone UYI I or UYI II, yet had to give them a bunch of qualifiers about how its not going to sound like GNR and to just please give it a chance.

You absolutely have to do that with CD.  So, its different in that sense.

[mortismurphy]

Does that differ from the old albums?




/jarmo

Illusion is a spotty release (Shotgun Blues, My World). I would say Appetite is pretty flawless except perhaps Anything Goes.

[jarmo]

In other words, nothing's perfect....



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

In other words, nothing's perfect....



/jarmo

If they had used You Could Be Mine instead of Anything Goes Appetite would be absolute perfection.

Also if Illusion had been one album it could have been a masterpiece. I would have put out songs like Get In The Ring and Shotgun Blues as b-sides.

[D-GenerationX]

If they had used You Could Be Mine instead of Anything Goes Appetite would be absolute perfection.

Eh, I don't know.

That song is a perfect example of why I'd take Matt over Steven, 10 times out of 10.

Is Steven nailing the drums in that one?

[mortismurphy]

If they had used You Could Be Mine instead of Anything Goes Appetite would be absolute perfection.

Eh, I don't know.

That song is a perfect example of why I'd take Matt over Steven, 10 times out of 10.

Is Steven nailing the drums in that one?

I prefer Steven and apparently the song was written during post-production for Appetite so it is theoretically possible that a Steven version of YCBM could have been included on Appetite.

[jarmo]

Also if Illusion had been one album it could have been a masterpiece. I would have put out songs like Get In The Ring and Shotgun Blues as b-sides.

But then you would have less music!

Wasn't more better?



/jarmo

[damnthehaters]

You can point it out all you want, but it is what it is.  GNR has lost fans over the years because of things they have done or how they have handled things.  But I don't worry about it.  Would I like more music, of course.  But what is coming on here and bringing up what I believe to be the bands flaws (on a daily basis) really gonna do about it?  I've made comments on here in the past that aren't in support of GNR, but then I move on.  And that's the point.  I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't say anything negative or something that doesn't support the band.  What they are saying, is why does it have to be repeated over and over and over.  Because it gets to a point where if you bitch that much....then why are you here?  

I really don't know what fans of other rock bands do nor do I care.

Conversations evolve.  Points are made, counterpoints are made, topics shift.

Are you arguing that if something comes up, the topic shifts a bit, but then gets back to the original point...we should just stop talking to one another?

If someone comes into a thread 7 pages in, should they just get a bunch of posts from people telling them that their response can be found back on page 2?

Maybe you just don't reply to everything because we know what your response will be.  I think it's a bit of you responding the way you do, that gets topics out of hand or off subject.  Listen, you and mort can respond however you like.  I'm just saying we've all heard it too many times.  We all know how you guys feel.  

[mortismurphy]

Also if Illusion had been one album it could have been a masterpiece. I would have put out songs like Get In The Ring and Shotgun Blues as b-sides.

But then you would have less music!

Wasn't more better?



/jarmo

Not really if they stuck them out as b-sides like Oasis.