ARTICLE: My thoughts on the future of Guns N' Roses

[D-GenerationX]

If you want to disregard those facts, fine. They spent the rest of 2010 on tour in Canada, South America, Europe, Australia and the Middle East. It was quite a busy year.

But we were discussing demand level in their home country of the United States.  

If anyone is disregarding facts here, its you.  As its a pretty established fact that one of these places are in the United States.

And you still choose to disregard the fact that it was basically only weeks after the arena tour ended. They basically went back to some of the places they had just visited on the arena tour.

Why would you do that? You tell me why you'd book shows in NYC (for example) again, instead of playing all NYC shows in November 2011?
Instead of you thinking "Wow, GN'R is coming back to my area so soon!", you go with "they played smaller places so there's no demand". Funny how your mind works...

We are talking major American cities here, Jarmo.  And this is one of the biggest names in rock.

If you are telling me not being able to find 3,000 people some of the more populated cities in the country to fill up a club to see Guns N' Roses is no big deal, you do that.  But its not a credible argument and suggests that you are a man that is simply unable, or rather just unwilling to address any sort of bad news.

We can't just stick our heads in the sand and ignore all this.  Well...YOU can, and have, but I'm not going to join you.

I'll be happy to stick my head in the sand. I think it sounds better than where your head is stuck.
Don't get offended, it's a joke!

I apologize in advance! 

LOLZ

I'm not offended, just bored by it.  Childish stuff like this just exposes you as a non-serious person incapable of having a serious discussion.

It's unfortunate.  Not a surprise, but unfortunate nonetheless.

[TheBaconman]

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

[mortismurphy]

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

[D-GenerationX]

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

If anything, that article goes pretty heavy the other way.  Its more of valentine than a rough critique, no?

[mortismurphy]

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

If anything, that article goes pretty heavy the other way.  Its more of valentine than a rough critique, no?

As I said I just skimmed it. I found it unreadable to be honest.

[D-GenerationX]

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

If anything, that article goes pretty heavy the other way.  Its more of valentine than a rough critique, no?

As I said I just skimmed it. I found it unreadable to be honest.

Well, it could have been written by someone here.  Labeling it anything all that critical is the alltime stretch.

[TheBaconman]

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

I didn't honestly think anything was wrong with your 80-90 percent comment. 

[mortismurphy]

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

[D-GenerationX]

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

[damnthehaters]

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

Mort, I found you!  Still waiting for your answer?

[damnthehaters]

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

[jarmo]

If you doubt the truthfulness of my observation, then ask yourself why I selected an approx figure of 80-90%? If I wanted to lie and skewer the figures because of alleged bias I would have probably said 60-70% or just said something like, ''the arena was only half full''.

Be careful using phrases such as "half full". Somebody might think you've lost your honest objectivity!

But we were discussing demand level in their home country of the United States.  

If anyone is disregarding facts here, its you.  As its a pretty established fact that one of these places are in the United States.

Haven't we done this before as well?
Didn't we establish that this is the same country where GN'R were playing arenas in 1993 (with most of the original band as you might recall) while they were still headlining stadiums in Europe....
So how's that for demand?

I'm disregarding facts? I just told you that in 2010 they had more than one show in the USA. No matter how much you wish for it not to be true, it's in fact true. They played surprise acoustic gigs in NYC.  You might not count those for obvious reasons but claiming they only played one gig in the USA in 2010 is, wrong.

We are talking major American cities here, Jarmo.  And this is one of the biggest names in rock.

If you are telling me not being able to find 3,000 people some of the more populated cities in the country to fill up a club to see Guns N' Roses is no big deal, you do that.  But its not a credible argument and suggests that you are a man that is simply unable, or rather just unwilling to address any sort of bad news.

I guess since it's Friday, it's time to disco around the question.
There's no bad news. You're making it up.

There's no demand? We've been through this bullshit already. With you. Multiple times.
A band with little demand don't get asked to headline festivals. Yes, even in your "home town country" of USA.

So, why didn't they just book all those shows in 2011? Why did they bother to go out on another US tour so soon after? Especially since there didn't seem to be any demand for the band? Eagerly awaiting your expertise answer.

I'm not offended, just bored by it.  Childish stuff like this just exposes you as a non-serious person incapable of having a serious discussion.

It's unfortunate.  Not a surprise, but unfortunate nonetheless.

Funny.

For a guy who's so all about busting balls and whatnot. But once I make a silly joke at your expense, it's childish.

But whatever Mr Deja Vu-X. Every discussion is the same. You can't take in information and use it. You just repeat what you "know". Free thinking... Riiight.

What's next? The lack of promotion for CD "discussion"?


/jarmo

[Ginger King]

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

But the Mariners played baseball in 1977.  Show me the album that the "original" members of GnR released, or the tour they went on?  Your analogy falls flat.

[D-GenerationX]

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

Obviously, not really apples to apples here.

The 1977 Mariners may have sucked, as did the teams for the next 20 or so years, but they were established.  They were part of a league and played all the games just like any team in the league.

But as it pertains to this band, the much heralded Rob Gardner era was never really a thing.

If a person told me they considered the 5 guys on AFD the original band, I would not correct them.  Could I?  Technically, yes.  But I suspect they'd roll their eyes at me, and it would be hard to find fault with them doing so.

[mortismurphy]

If you doubt the truthfulness of my observation, then ask yourself why I selected an approx figure of 80-90%? If I wanted to lie and skewer the figures because of alleged bias I would have probably said 60-70% or just said something like, ''the arena was only half full''.

Be careful using phrases such as "half full". Somebody might think you've lost your honest objectivity!

'Would'. Subjunctive mood Jarmo.

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

The original line up of GN'R was together for approximately two months. 1977-1995 is a period encompassing eighteen years. I'm not an expert on American sports but was that period really completely absent of any kind of success or attainment? Was there not players who played in 1994 who were also playing in 1996?.

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

Mort, I found you!  Still waiting for your answer?

I cannot remember the question. Was it the usual ''why are you here? Go away'' HTGTH shtick?

[D-GenerationX]

I'm disregarding facts? I just told you that in 2010 they had more than one show in the USA. No matter how much you wish for it not to be true, it's in fact true. They played surprise acoustic gigs in NYC.  You might not count those for obvious reasons but claiming they only played one gig in the USA in 2010 is, wrong.

And this is a big game changer, this big revelation?  My omission of some surprise acoustic gig fundamentally changes the argument being made?

No.  It does not.  

I guess since it's Friday, it's time to disco around the question.
There's no bad news. You're making it up.

We disagree.

A major American city, and you can't find 3,000 to show up to see one of the biggest names in rock.

Oh, but don't worry...this is no sort of barometer of how they might do filling arenas all over the country.

That makes zero sense.

Funny.

For a guy who's so all about busting balls and whatnot. But once I make a silly joke at your expense, it's childish.

I make jokes all the time.  As a throwaway line, while I'm making an actual point.

You use "jokes" in place of making an actual point.  Your "jokes" aren't a complement to a legit point, its a outright substitution for even making a legit point.

You're a non-serious person often incapable of having a serious discussion.  That's not my problem, and I've sort of lost interest trying to hold you hand through it either.  

I'll stick to some of these other folks that seem to be able get their shit together on their own.  Better use of my time.

[damnthehaters]

If you doubt the truthfulness of my observation, then ask yourself why I selected an approx figure of 80-90%? If I wanted to lie and skewer the figures because of alleged bias I would have probably said 60-70% or just said something like, ''the arena was only half full''.

Be careful using phrases such as "half full". Somebody might think you've lost your honest objectivity!

'Would'. Subjunctive mood Jarmo.

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

The original line up of GN'R was together for approximately two months. 1977-1995 is a period encompassing eighteen years. I'm not an expert on American sports but was that period really completely absent of any kind of success or attainment? Was there not players who played in 1994 who were also playing in 1996?.

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

Mort, I found you!  Still waiting for your answer?

I cannot remember the question. Was it the usual ''why are you here? Go away'' HTGTH shtick?

Yeah, just curious on why your here if you don't like the way GNR does things?  Honest question

[mortismurphy]

If you doubt the truthfulness of my observation, then ask yourself why I selected an approx figure of 80-90%? If I wanted to lie and skewer the figures because of alleged bias I would have probably said 60-70% or just said something like, ''the arena was only half full''.

Be careful using phrases such as "half full". Somebody might think you've lost your honest objectivity!

'Would'. Subjunctive mood Jarmo.

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

The original line up of GN'R was together for approximately two months. 1977-1995 is a period encompassing eighteen years. I'm not an expert on American sports but was that period really completely absent of any kind of success or attainment? Was there not players who played in 1994 who were also playing in 1996?.

I never asked about if the UK shows were sold out.   I was asking when the last time guns played the UK.  Mortis you answered that, thanks.  But then you had to add in your little part about how full the venue was.  That was unsolicited

At least nobody is trying to defend guns for touring often hahaha

It pertained to what you asked for though. And did you perceive it at the time as this ''big bias lie to make gnr look poor'' which Jarmo has made it out to be?

Mort, I found you!  Still waiting for your answer?

I cannot remember the question. Was it the usual ''why are you here? Go away'' HTGTH shtick?

Yeah, just curious on why your here if you don't like the way GNR does things?  Honest question

An album announcement would instantly change that. My main criticism of the band is their lack of new material. I do not have much hope left now but you never know - Axl might decide to release the Chinese leftovers?   

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, just curious on why your here if you don't like the way GNR does things?  Honest question

He's here because he's a fan of the band.  We're all here because we are fans of the band's music.

It's our fault the operational side is run pretty shabbily?  Not really.  I suppose it could be argued its our fault we point it out sometimes when others wish we'd just look at our shoes and never utter a critical word.  But do you really need to be protected from such things?  Is it our saying it that makes it real for you?

Let me ask you this question.  Do you think fans of other rock bands on par with GNR spend near this much time taking about their management?  I doubt that, highly.

Band managers are like refs in sports.  The only time they get brought up is when then mess up, and the best compliment you can pay them is when you say you never have to mention them at all.  Because they just do their job and do it well.

[damnthehaters]

If we are accepting the fact that Slash was an original member, where does that leave Duff who joined earlier and left one year later?

People get crazy with those designations, I think.

Like when the semantic police try and run names like Ole Beich, Rob Gardner, or even Tracii Guns up the flagpole to try and explain away band turnover recently.

I think realistically you have to consider the 5 guys that hit the big time in 1988 the originals in the eyes of the public.

I don't see it that way.  The Seattle Mariners were an expansion team in 1977.  They really didn't become relevant however until 1995 when Lou Pinella turned them into a playoff team with Ken Griffey JR., Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner, and ARod.  So is the 1977 team not original?  Is Griffey one of the originals just because they "became relevant" during his time?

But the Mariners played baseball in 1977.  Show me the album that the "original" members of GnR released, or the tour they went on?  Your analogy falls flat.

So a band isn't considered a "band" until they set foot on a stage or put an album out?  Not saying your wrong....Im honestly unsure?  I think there has to be something said for the "name" Guns N Roses being brought to the table.  Guns N Roses did in fact exist before the appetite crew.  But does it not count because they didn't produce anything yet?  Because just because the Mariners were "playing baseball" in 1977 doesn't mean they produced anything?  In baseball, you HAVE to to play.  In music, you don't HAVE to put out an album every year.