ARTICLE: My thoughts on the future of Guns N' Roses

[mortismurphy]

There is not rationality or reasoning with you, is there? Kids playground politics. That is all it is, kids playground politics.

[jarmo]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

There is not rationality or reasoning with you, is there? Kids playground politics. That is all it is, kids playground politics.

So go post on an exciting and innovative AC/DC forum if you don't like the politics here.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

[mortismurphy]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

[jarmo]

No, I don't. Are you so concerned about your so called objectivity that you had to jump in and point out the little error the writer had made in a positive article about GN'R?

Of course you are.
The only things worth commenting on for you were those!

It had nothing to do with me? Well, since you're free to point out the errors of others, why can't I?
Mainly your errors and failure at free thinking.

You focus on the wrong things. Move on and go troll an AC/DC site. I'm sure there's things you can't be happy about in that universe as well. 



/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

[mortismurphy]

No, I don't. Are you so concerned about your so called objectivity that you had to jump in and point out the little error the writer had made in a positive article about GN'R?

Of course you are.
The only things worth commenting on for you were those!

It had nothing to do with me? Well, since you're free to point out the errors of others, why can't I?
Mainly your errors and failure at free thinking.

You focus on the wrong things. Move on and go troll an AC/DC site. I'm sure there's things you can't be happy about in that universe as well. 



/jarmo

But I merely saw it as an error of poor journalism, not of GN'R.

[mortismurphy]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

I repeat, please tell me where I have denied that this is gnr because of band defections.

[EmilyGNR]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

I repeat, please tell me where I have denied that this is gnr because of band defections.

Do you enjoy making things up? Delusionary much?

I clearly said AC/DC is down a few original members and a drummer, so It wasn't really AC/DC.

Go troll their forum and whine 

[mortismurphy]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

I repeat, please tell me where I have denied that this is gnr because of band defections.

Do you enjoy making things up? Delusionary much?

I clearly said AC/DC is down a few original members and a drummer, so It wasn't really AC/DC.

Go troll their forum and whine 

That joke/insult would only make sense if I had at some point in the past implied that gn'r are 'not gn'r because they lack original members'. Since I have never made that remark, it raises the point why you would make that joke in the first place?

[EmilyGNR]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

I repeat, please tell me where I have denied that this is gnr because of band defections.

Do you enjoy making things up? Delusionary much?

I clearly said AC/DC is down a few original members and a drummer, so It wasn't really AC/DC.

Go troll their forum and whine 

That joke/insult would only make sense if I had at some point in the past implied that gn'r are 'not gn'r because they lack original members'. Since I have never made that remark, it raises the point why you would make that joke in the first place?

You clearly need to reread my post.

I said nothing about any supposed joke, nor did I mention GNR- I stated that AC/DC were down a few original members and a drummer and suggested you go whine on an AC/DC forum about that.

You have perception and assumption issues 

[mortismurphy]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

I repeat, please tell me where I have denied that this is gnr because of band defections.

Do you enjoy making things up? Delusionary much?

I clearly said AC/DC is down a few original members and a drummer, so It wasn't really AC/DC.

Go troll their forum and whine 

That joke/insult would only make sense if I had at some point in the past implied that gn'r are 'not gn'r because they lack original members'. Since I have never made that remark, it raises the point why you would make that joke in the first place?

You clearly need to reread my post.

I said nothing about any supposed joke, nor did I mention GNR- I stated that AC/DC were down a few original members and a drummer and suggested you go whine on an AC/DC forum about that.

You have perception and assumption issues 

Why would I moan about that? The line-up they have still possesses Angus and two musicians who are virtually honourary originals on account of their longevity (Cliff Williams, 1977-; Brian, 1980-). And Chris Slade is a familiar face.

[EmilyGNR]

This coming from the guy who had to chime in on a positive article about GN'R and point out that the shows weren't 100% sold out.... Funny.



/jarmo

Do you lack that much confidence in your band that a mere statement of fact in an innocuous conversation which had nothing to do with you anyhow, makes you go into full on red alert Defcon 4 mode? Can GN'R not exist and survive, selling at only 90%? What a low opinion you have of their resilience and ability to survive. GN'R are actually physically unable to not sell out. You do not even allow this band to have a slightly under par 'day at the office'.

I've heard they are down a few original members and a drummer too though, so it's not really AC/DC.

Are you implying that I have stated that GN'R are not GN'R because they are ''down a few original members''? I would not want a new album if that was so. Please find this statement that I have made.

Kindergarten 'na na nanana' politics.

Optimists see: A glass half full.

Pessimists see: A glass half empty.

Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because it's tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim, too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus. Why do these things always happen to me?! 

I repeat, please tell me where I have denied that this is gnr because of band defections.

Do you enjoy making things up? Delusionary much?

I clearly said AC/DC is down a few original members and a drummer, so It wasn't really AC/DC.

Go troll their forum and whine 

That joke/insult would only make sense if I had at some point in the past implied that gn'r are 'not gn'r because they lack original members'. Since I have never made that remark, it raises the point why you would make that joke in the first place?

You clearly need to reread my post.

I said nothing about any supposed joke, nor did I mention GNR- I stated that AC/DC were down a few original members and a drummer and suggested you go whine on an AC/DC forum about that.

You have perception and assumption issues 

Why would I moan about that? The line-up they have still possesses Angus and two musicians who are virtually honourary originals on account of their longevity (Cliff Williams, 1977-; Brian, 1980-). And Chris Slade is a familiar face.

Super! Go to an AC/DC forum and amaze them with this speshull knowledge.   

You can also comment on their amazing diversity.

Hurry!

[mortismurphy]

Toddler politics.

[EmilyGNR]

Toddler politics.

Here's a link, they are accepting mewling quim memberships now, you will fit right in mortis 

http://www.acdcfans.net/forum/

[jarmo]

But I merely saw it as an error of poor journalism, not of GN'R.

Yes I get that. And it was the only thing you commented on. Nothing regarding whether or not you agree (yeah right) or disagree.
Why the need to be such a Debbie Downer?



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

No, I don't buy your negative outlook.

The band has played shows in the USA every year on their tours between 2010 and 2014.
So instead of one US tour in 2011, you got multiple over the years.

I'm surprised you didn't think about this already.

We just fundamentally disagree on some (what I consider) rather basic points regarding their current status in their home country.

- 2010, they played 1 show in the United States.  1 show.  At it was at the annual motorcycle rally in Sturgis, North Dakota.  Does this support an argument for high demand?

- 2012 (first half) they played a 15 date club tour.  This was not done out of the goodness of their hearts.  No one willingly plays a smaller place when bigger places can be filled.  Even as absurdly small as some of these places will, they were not filled.  This is a situation where anything less than 100% capacity in a major city is a red flag.

- 2012 (second half) they played a 12 date tour Las Vegas.  A one city residency in maybe the top vacation town in the country.  Bigger than clubs, but smaller than arenas.  Not filled to capacity.  Troubling in a destination type city, and a city pretty open about papering the house and giving away free tickets.  Not filling that up is a red flag.

- 2014 has them playing an awards show and a festival, which are not relevant for attendance arguments.  They also played 1 casino in PA, and then another 9 date residency stint in Las Vegas.  Same type situation.  Destination spot, willingness of the venues to paper the house, still not full.  Not a great sign.

Now, if there is a silver lining here, you could argue that since it had been so long since any new product was out, there weren't full blown tours.  I'd agree.

If you want to tell me we will get a better picture of theire current level of demand once we see the places they book on the next proper tour after a new album, I'd agree.

But if given all this, you are going to tell me there is high demand in the U.S. for this version of Guns N' Roses, I would disagree.  I would disagree strenuously.  None of the above supports a premise they could fill up big spots on the regular in this country with this line-up.

Yet a band like Motley Crue (remember, this all started talking about Motley Crue) can do just that, and have been for 2 years.  I do not consider Motley Crue GNR's peer in terms of material or talent, but they are peers in terms of age and age of their respective fanbases.

We can't just stick our heads in the sand and ignore all this.  Well...YOU can, and have, but I'm not going to join you.

[mortismurphy]

But I merely saw it as an error of poor journalism, not of GN'R.

Yes I get that. And it was the only thing you commented on. Nothing regarding whether or not you agree (yeah right) or disagree.
Why the need to be such a Debbie Downer?



/jarmo

It is only you who have a problem with GN'R only selling 80-90% of the tickets so you are the one with this negative perception. I have reiterated twice that I do not see that performance as poor in the slightest and have even praised the performance but you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge this. It was a reply to a query by Bacon about the UK tour.  I wouldn't have bothered posting if I had not attended that particular tour and consequentially had the knowledge required by Bacon. As for the article itself, I got as far as ''the then only other original member, Slash, decided to leave the band way back in 1996'', realised it was a poorly written piece and consequentially only skimmed the rest. My initial post concerning the article was actually this,

after the then only other original member, Slash, decided to leave the band way back in 1996.

It is an error compounded with an error.

It was not the mention of the UK tour. That basically sums up what my thoughts were on the initial reading of the article. Really Jarmo, you have shown yourself every bit the fanatical zealot devoid of intellectual reasoning abilities over this completely innocuous post.

[jarmo]

We just fundamentally disagree on some (what I consider) rather basic points regarding their current status in their home country.

- 2010, they played 1 show in the United States.  1 show.  At it was at the annual motorcycle rally in Sturgis, North Dakota.  Does this support an argument for high demand?

Wrong, they also had those acoustic gigs in NYC right after Canada.

If you want to disregard those facts, fine. They spent the rest of 2010 on tour in Canada, South America, Europe, Australia and the Middle East. It was quite a busy year.

- 2012 (first half) they played a 15 date club tour.  This was not done out of the goodness of their hearts.  No one willingly plays a smaller place when bigger places can be filled.  Even as absurdly small as some of these places will, they were not filled.  This is a situation where anything less than 100% capacity in a major city is a red flag.

And you still choose to disregard the fact that it was basically only weeks after the arena tour ended. They basically went back to some of the places they had just visited on the arena tour.

Why would you do that? You tell me why you'd book shows in NYC (for example) again, instead of playing all NYC shows in November 2011?
Instead of you thinking "Wow, GN'R is coming back to my area so soon!", you go with "they played smaller places so there's no demand". Funny how your mind works...

- 2012 (second half) they played a 12 date tour Las Vegas.  A one city residency in maybe the top vacation town in the country.  Bigger than clubs, but smaller than arenas.  Not filled to capacity.  Troubling in a destination type city, and a city pretty open about papering the house and giving away free tickets.  Not filling that up is a red flag.

Once again, a year after the last arena tour, same year as the club shows.

Several bands do not tour the US as much or as often.

- 2014 has them playing an awards show and a festival, which are not relevant for attendance arguments.  They also played 1 casino in PA, and then another 9 date residency stint in Las Vegas.  Same type situation.  Destination spot, willingness of the venues to paper the house, still not full.  Not a great sign.

I think they booked those because they could. They don't just get asked back to the Hard Rock so soon because they are nice people over at the casino....

But if given all this, you are going to tell me there is high demand in the U.S. for this version of Guns N' Roses, I would disagree.  I would disagree strenuously.  None of the above supports a premise they could fill up big spots on the regular in this country with this line-up.

Maybe not among you and your friends.
I think they could do arenas again.

Hell even Metallica is avoiding touring the USA and not to mention AC/DC only playing a few select shows there. Not that this matters to you....

Yet a band like Motley Crue (remember, this all started talking about Motley Crue) can do just that, and have been for 2 years.  I do not consider Motley Crue GNR's peer in terms of material or talent, but they are peers in terms of age and age of their respective fanbases.

They tour in the summer. And it's their last tour.
This is the same band that did a co-headlining tour with KISS a few years ago. And now you're telling me they're more popular? Is it because of their current radio hits? Oh wait...

We can't just stick our heads in the sand and ignore all this.  Well...YOU can, and have, but I'm not going to join you.

I'll be happy to stick my head in the sand. I think it sounds better than where your head is stuck.
Don't get offended, it's a joke!

I apologize in advance! 

It is only you who have a problem with GN'R only selling 80-90% of the tickets so you are the one with this negative perception.

I have a problem with you and numbers. I don't trust that combination. Sorry.

I have reiterated twice that I do not see that performance as poor in the slightest and have even praised the performance but you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge this.

Great!

Really Jarmo, you have shown yourself every bit the fanatical zealot devoid of intellectual reasoning abilities over this completely innocuous post.

I couldn't care less.




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

It is only you who have a problem with GN'R only selling 80-90% of the tickets so you are the one with this negative perception.

I have a problem with you and numbers. I don't trust that combination. Sorry.

If you doubt the truthfulness of my observation, then ask yourself why I selected an approx figure of 80-90%? If I wanted to lie and skewer the figures because of alleged bias I would have probably said 60-70% or just said something like, ''the arena was only half full''.