DJ's Letter

[pilferk]

It?s evident in the posts.

Can you find a post from Jarmo (Jarmo may not be fair b/c it?s his site) or others of his ilk where they are critical of Axl, the band, or some of the decisions that have been made?  I don?t think you can.

I don't read their posts looking for it, but I do specifically remember some comments from jarmo about the promotion of CD at release, especially in the US.

There have been others, since we've had this discussion, before, and I've seen him bring them up.

They are less frequent.

But I would say the "positives" are generally less frequent from the opposing POV, too.

And it doesn't make their POV less valid, or their posts less truthful, it just pushes the gap between yours and theirs a bit wider.

Again, if you can discount their POV because you find it "extreme"....you shouldn't be surprised, or take umbrage, when they do the same to yours.  They likely view it as just as extreme as you view theirs.

You can argue that's not the case...but it's not really addressing the underlying point that you're both doing the same thing.

Conversely, can you find a post from me (or D-X or others) where we said positive things about Axl, the current band, or some of the decision that have been made?  Answer:  Yes.  Shit, even Mortis (I think) said some positive things.

Sure, but.....you have to go looking..no? 

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing....it's a differing, valid, POV.

But that's irrelevant, really. 

That?s the difference.  You can?t really have an ?honest discussion? where one side will never, ever, concede anything.  And I get that I?m never, ever, going to change their opinion (nor am I trying to), but ask yourself:  Can you honestly say things are good right now with Guns?  I can?t, and people who are saying it?s a-ok, nothing to see here are intentionally burying their heads in the sand.  It?s like the band on the Titanic.

Sure you can.  You can't have metered debate.  But nobody needs to concede in a discussion. DX and I do it pretty frequently...and I don't think either of us concede our original position.  But we understand each other, at the end, figure out where our disconnect is, and generally agree to disagree.  But it's an honest discussion.

You're simply addressing the content within the discussion, honestly.  HONESTLY, for the person commenting.  Your "honesty" isn't their "honesty".  But if you're coming from a place where you both respect that there IS another POV...there you have it.

It takes work, from both sides, to get the environment that's condusive to that.  IF that's really the goal.

If it's not..thats fine, too.  But then...you can't get bent outta shape when you're both engaging in similar debate tactics.

BBF is a perfect example.  We had been saying (for a long time) that he?s out, the evidence was quite clear he left.  That was met with the typical negative, amateur hour, armchair quarterback response (?how would you know, until there?s an official announcement, you don?t know anything?).  Well, how?d that end up?

Yeah, that was a shit show.  But it was one largely perpetuated by BBF, IMHO.

But that's neither here nor there.

They thing is..they weren't wrong.  And neither were you. Not while the discussions were going on.  You were discussing opposing POVs.

There are some parallels here.  One quarter of the band is gone.  Arguably, the two most important members (besides Axl, of course) left.  Everyone one else is currently with other bands, and their comments range from ?there?s a plan in place? to ?I have no clue what the plan is.? (not actual quotes, btw).  I think it?s rational to say what the hell is going on here, are there larger problems as play?  Fernando says no, and that we?ll know something soon, so I?m hopeful for some positive news whenever ?soon? become ?now?, but, IMO, it?s not out of bounds at all to question what?s going on.

Again, sort of off my point, but I'd argue the most important member after Axl is Tommy.  And I take Fernando at his word.

But, again, none of the above goes to my actual point.

[D-GenerationX]

I both love and hate how well reasoned and measured most of pilferk's responses are.

[pilferk]

I both love and hate how well reasoned and measured most of pilferk's responses are.

Pfffft..."most"? 

[D-GenerationX]

I both love and hate how well reasoned and measured most of pilferk's responses are.

Pfffft..."most"? 

Hahaha

Well...sure.  Sometimes, you're just talking crazy.

[pilferk]

Hahaha

Well...sure.  Sometimes, you're just talking crazy.

Man, I hope so!

But, hey, if you can tell the difference, you're doing better than I am, I guess, soooo...

[Ginger King]

I both love and hate how well reasoned and measured most of pilferk's responses are.

I know, right?  He?s the guy that diffuses the fight so everyone can go back to the bar and have a good time.  And everyone likes him.  He?s the modern day Mercutio (that?s right, Shakespeare bitches).  It?s irritating/very effective.  Well played, sir! 

[D-GenerationX]

Damn, GK.  Shakespeare references?

I ussually reference sitcoms and bad 80s movies.  I gotta up my game.

[pilferk]

Damn, GK.  Shakespeare references?

I ussually reference sitcoms and bad 80s movies.  I gotta up my game.

Totally off topic:

DX...read Ready Player One by Ernest Cline.

It's a moral imperative.

[Ow-So7411501]

Wow, its a slow day in the GNR world when we are arguing over arguing etiquette.

[sky dog]

For the record, you could argue Dizzy, Chris, and Tommy are all more important than DJ or Ron. They have been around through the whole saga and will have multiple writing credits on multiple Gnr albums. DJ and Ron....nada.

Respect Mother Goose and Eugene. 

[Ginger King]

For the record, you could argue Dizzy, Chris, and Tommy are all more important than DJ or Ron. They have been around through the whole saga and will have multiple writing credits on multiple Gnr albums. DJ and Ron....nada.

Respect Mother Goose and Eugene. 

Sure you can argue it...but when you think GnR, your first thought (after Axl) is not keyboards, synth, and bass.  Like most rock bands, it's the guitar play.  Specifically, lead guitar.  It's, IMO, the hardest musician to replace.  It took both DJ and BBF to play Slash's parts...

The importance of actual people...I agree.  Dizzy, Tommy, and Chris are right up there. 

[Ginger King]

Damn, GK.  Shakespeare references?

I ussually reference sitcoms and bad 80s movies.  I gotta up my game.

Totally off topic:

DX...read Ready Player One by Ernest Cline.

It's a moral imperative.

Great book.

[JAEBALL]

Pilferk is the man and he should be the next lead guitar player.

I'm lost on how anything GNR has done since 1993 is an evolution for anybody other than Axl.  Oh wait thats the other thread right? hard to keep up.

[jarmo]

Good job pilferk. I agree with what you've said.

When I say similar things with less nice words, some self proclaimed ball busters get upset about it.
Funny.  

For the record, you could argue Dizzy, Chris, and Tommy are all more important than DJ or Ron. They have been around through the whole saga and will have multiple writing credits on multiple Gnr albums. DJ and Ron....nada.

Respect Mother Goose and Eugene. 

You could make that argument. But then again, it won't fit with the "it's the end of the world again" rhetoric.



/jarmo

[pilferk]

Pilferk is the man and he should be the next lead guitar player.

Thankfully, you're joking.

But, just as a funny aside, I can mimic my way through most of AFD, actually, and some of UYI (Coma kills me...literally makes me feel like I'm gonna die, my arms are going to fall off, and my hands are going to burst into flame).  When I'm sitting on my ass, on a decent stool. And not all of it at once.

I can't read, write, compose, or otherwise contribute to the process of creating music...not even "off the cuff" solos.

The difference between a "guitar player" and a musician, right there. 

It often amazes me how much PHYSICAL work playing guitar can be.  I'm much more productive (and, honestly, probably not making much less money) behind my keyboard.   

And besides, if I were the lead guitar player, I'd have to listen to everyone bitch about how I botched the SCOM solo and fucked up the NR intro.  No fucking thank you! 

(Emoji heavy by design)

[Ginger King]

For the record, you could argue Dizzy, Chris, and Tommy are all more important than DJ or Ron. They have been around through the whole saga and will have multiple writing credits on multiple Gnr albums. DJ and Ron....nada.

Respect Mother Goose and Eugene. 

You could make that argument. But then again, it won't fit with the "it's the end of the world again" rhetoric.

/jarmo

Yeah, I can see the scenario where a rock band losing its co-lead guitarists is not a big deal...

Also, never said it's the end of the world...but to think it's "a good opportunity" is ignoring the fact that 1/4 of the band quit.  Or is this all part of the plan that we'll find out about soon? 

[JAEBALL]

Pilferk is the man and he should be the next lead guitar player.

Thankfully, you're joking.

But, just as a funny aside, I can mimic my way through most of AFD, actually, and some of UYI (Coma kills me...literally makes me feel like I'm gonna die, my arms are going to fall off, and my hands are going to burst into flame).  When I'm sitting on my ass, on a decent stool. And not all of it at once.

I can't read, write, compose, or otherwise contribute to the process of creating music...not even "off the cuff" solos.

The difference between a "guitar player" and a musician, right there. 

It often amazes me how much PHYSICAL work playing guitar can be.  I'm much more productive (and, honestly, probably not making much less money) behind my keyboard.   

And besides, if I were the lead guitar player, I'd have to listen to everyone bitch about how I botched the SCOM solo and fucked up the NR intro.  No fucking thank you! 

(Emoji heavy by design)

haha well I was only joking about being the guitar player... you are the man!

but the fact that you can play Coma at all... thats impressive

[sky dog]

Ginger....Richard is a DAMN good lead guitar player...it was really 3 leads and 3 rhythm players. Insane as that sounds!

[jarmo]

Yeah, I can see the scenario where a rock band losing its co-lead guitarists is not a big deal...

Also, never said it's the end of the world...but to think it's "a good opportunity" is ignoring the fact that 1/4 of the band quit.  Or is this all part of the plan that we'll find out about soon? 

Everything is relative.

Is it good? No.
Is it the end of the world? No.

Is it better it happened now rather than closer to a tour? Of course.

Ron started the hinting game while he was in the band. Would it have been good to see more of that kind of stuff? Well, you decide.





/jarmo

[sofine11]

Yeah, I can see the scenario where a rock band losing its co-lead guitarists is not a big deal...

Also, never said it's the end of the world...but to think it's "a good opportunity" is ignoring the fact that 1/4 of the band quit.  Or is this all part of the plan that we'll find out about soon? 

Everything is relative.

Is it good? No.
Is it the end of the world? No.

Is it better it happened now rather than closer to a tour? Of course.

Ron started the hinting game while he was in the band. Would it have been good to see more of that kind of stuff? Well, you decide.





/jarmo

Seeing how they're still likely the main players on the (hopefully) forthcoming album, a Robin & Buckethead return to Guns would be my pie in the sky hope for their "replacements".   Like the saying goes, all's well that ends well.  Would be amazing if they were both available and, of course, willing.